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suspension question


svt13

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I've noticed with the 13 shelby which I am surprised I didn't notice in the gt mustang I test drove, that any time you go over any kind of bump in the road on a turn over 30 mph the back end of the car jumps out a few inches.

 

Now I'm assuming this is from the LRA but I'm wondering how come I never felt this with the 2011 gt I drove? So I'm sure the 2012s have the same problem what kind of suspension mods did you guys do to fix this. Because this jump that the car does makes me nervous about spirited driving on the street sunday mornings.

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My '11 SVTPP does this too. More noticeable in a corner than straight line. I'm doing a suspension upgrade this weekend and I'll post up if this goes away.

 

Yea I never have the hop in a straight line. Its only when I do hard corners when there are bumps in the road. What mods are you doing? And I will look foward to your results.

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New struts and shocks, lower springs, LCA and relocation brackets, UCA, panhard bar and panhard brace.

 

Hmmm struts and shocks and springs won't effect that at all. I guess if the problem is resolved for you then it must be from the LCA, UCA, and relocation brackets. I don't know much about panhard bars besides the basics but I don't think that or the brace would effect wheel hop in the rear.

 

What LCA and UCA are you using? Are they front or rears? I'm thinking rears?

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That is called "LIVE REAR AXLE".

 

 

Thats what I am thinking. I'm really surprised some people say this new 13 handles like an IRS. I mean I can tell the difference at a 20mph turns. How are people tracking this car and going over the bumps on tracks? Or how did they track this car in Germany and Italy? I'd be terrified to turn this car over a bump at 50-60 mph.

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Bingo!!!!!!

 

SVT13, Does your 13 have the magnetic shocks? Have you tried them on a softer or harder setting?

 

 

Are you making a joke in reference to the MR system the zl1 has or are being serious and you are thinking the bilsteins are magnetic?

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Are you making a joke in reference to the MR system the zl1 has or are being serious and you are thinking the bilsteins are magnetic?

 

You are right SVT13.

The Bilsteins have a valving that can be changed by the driver to different settings. That's all.

It's nowhere near the magnetic ride found on the ZR1 or Z06-Z07 Corvette and the ZL1. That system has sensors to adapt the valving of the shocks "real time". It has nothing to do with the 13' Shelby setup.

Besides, the shocks do nothing to hinder the live axle problems on bumps (It's weight and the fact that it connects both rear wheels).

Loving the Shelbys does not mean you have to lie to yourself...

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You are right SVT13.

The Bilsteins have a valving that can be changed by the driver to different settings. That's all.

It's nowhere near the magnetic ride found on the ZR1 or Z06-Z07 Corvette and the ZL1. That system has sensors to adapt the valving of the shocks "real time". It has nothing to do with the 13' Shelby setup.

Besides, the shocks do nothing to hinder the live axle problems on bumps (It's weight and the fact that it connects both rear wheels).

Loving the Shelbys does not mean you have to lie to yourself...

 

 

I think pony was just confused thinking they were magnetic. I am wondering how to make the live axle better. Does it require a TA? Watts link? LCA UCA? Idk

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You wrote "how to make the live axle better".

All the equipment you mention will help, but its never going to be flawless on rough pavement. We agree.

I tried a lot of setups on my 2007 over a three years period...Watts-UCA-LCA-poly-heim, etc...

After those experiences I was about to order the "track pack" from Shelby a week ago for my 2012, it seems to be a very good kit!

 

But for the 2013 with the Bilsteins, I do not know what you should do.

You should ask Shelby about the fitment of such a kit on the latest GT500...

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You wrote "how to make the live axle better".

All the equipment you mention will help, but its never going to be flawless on rough pavement. We agree.

I tried a lot of setups on my 2007 over a three years period...Watts-UCA-LCA-poly-heim, etc...

After those experiences I was about to order the "track pack" from Shelby a week ago for my 2012, it seems to be a very good kit!

 

But for the 2013 with the Bilsteins, I do not know what you should do.

You should ask Shelby about the fitment of such a kit on the latest GT500...

 

 

I know it won't be flawless ever. That is just the flaw of live axle. I just want to improve it. I was thinking of looking into the J&M rear control arm since they claim to have some special bushing that keeps road noise down. I was thinking griggs TA and "quiet" watts link but Van told me the TA sometimes on some cars makes a weird ass hum noise that sometimes bothers people and others don't care.

 

You say you put those on your car did it make weird noises?

 

And I can't do shelby track pack because of springs. I refuse to lower this car after my last experience with lowering a car. I don't want to deal with the horrible harsh ride and scrapping all over the place. This car is rough enough.

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So after some googling it seems the watts link is what removes the problem I am talking about. So the question is how does the shelby fays2 compare with the quiet griggs watts link. Do I need to make any modifications to the stock suspension and is there any increased noise from either of these 2?

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If you are going to put on a watts linkage set up I would recommend the Fays2 / SPP unit. No other mod is needed but LCA are recommended . Just 1 thing - watch out on the install that the axle bracket on the driver's side doesn't cover the vent for the axle ( I believe that the 13 has it on the driver's side whereas the Fays2 was originally designed for the 2005-09 which has the vent on the passenger side ). JMO

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If you are going to put on a watts linkage set up I would recommend the Fays2 / SPP unit. No other mod is needed but LCA are recommended . Just 1 thing - watch out on the install that the axle bracket on the driver's side doesn't cover the vent for the axle ( I believe that the 13 has it on the driver's side whereas the Fays2 was originally designed for the 2005-09 which has the vent on the passenger side ). JMO

 

 

Why are LCA recommended with the fays2? Also do you know if the fays2 will add NVH? This car has zero squeaks and rattles so I want to keep it that way.

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The LCA's are recommended because it is desired to limit ( not eliminate )some of the the forward/aft movement of the rear axle due to the high compliance bushings the factory uses. It is the LCA choices which will contribute most to the possibilities of an increase in NVH - not the watts set up . The Fays2 connects at the rear axle assembly on the axle tubes not at the differential cover (cover mounted units are directly behind the ring/pinion gears - with adjustable carrier bearing cap support studs). Even though you will find that the Fays2 uses heim (rod) ends in its assembly Jim Fay supplies "O" rings to aid in keeping out the dirt from the rod ends thus allowing them to last longer ( noises are generated from play in the rod ends ). When you install the Fays2 unit make sure that you set the linkage rods parallel both on front to back AND on up and down ( Jim will supply you with additional shims if needed ) along with making sure the linkage rods are equal in length . Leaving the stock UCA in the vehicle eliminates most of the problems which people are having with NVH ( that means leaving in the stock drive shaft also). Relocation brackets are used ONLY if at the current ride height the LCAs are NOT parallel to the ground. JMO

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The LCA's are recommended because it is desired to limit ( not eliminate )some of the the forward/aft movement of the rear axle due to the high compliance bushings the factory uses. It is the LCA choices which will contribute most to the possibilities of an increase in NVH - not the watts set up . The Fays2 connects at the rear axle assembly on the axle tubes not at the differential cover (cover mounted units are directly behind the ring/pinion gears - with adjustable carrier bearing cap support studs). Even though you will find that the Fays2 uses heim (rod) ends in its assembly Jim Fay supplies "O" rings to aid in keeping out the dirt from the rod ends thus allowing them to last longer ( noises are generated from play in the rod ends ). When you install the Fays2 unit make sure that you set the linkage rods parallel both on front to back AND on up and down ( Jim will supply you with additional shims if needed ) along with making sure the linkage rods are equal in length . Leaving the stock UCA in the vehicle eliminates most of the problems which people are having with NVH ( that means leaving in the stock drive shaft also). Relocation brackets are used ONLY if at the current ride height the LCAs are NOT parallel to the ground. JMO

 

 

As of now I don't really want to change anything else. Just want to do the fays. It seems this is the better choice because I keep hearing how the griggs system while better does have rattling and squeaking to it. So if I just install the spp fays2 by itself. Should I expect any noise? Someone else told me I have to keep the helm joins lubed up regularly or something to that effect.

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You can install just the watts by itself. It's good maintenance to spray down the heims with WD40 every once and awhile to keep them clean ( especially if you drive in the wet ) to keep them from becoming noisy after all it is a performance part.

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Also what about boss 302s lower rear control arms?

 

http://www.americanmuscle.com/frpp-boss302s-lca-0512.html. Would these be much of an upgrade over our stock ones? What would be the cons of putting this on the car? I know I would also need the relocation bracket for them as well.

 

I kinda am more partial to putting ford parts on this car this time around. Plus are there any aftermarket control arms that could handle better than the boss 302s?

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You will have to get the car up high enough to work under it. The Boss 302S LCA would be an improvement but are a lot more pricier than others that will work the same and either way you WILL have MORE NVH. Also you don't know if you need relocate brackets until you see whether or not your LCA are level/parallel to the ground at your set ride height.

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You will have to get the car up high enough to work under it. The Boss 302S LCA would be an improvement but are a lot more pricier than others that will work the same and either way you WILL have MORE NVH. Also you don't know if you need relocate brackets until you see whether or not your LCA are level/parallel to the ground at your set ride height.

 

 

Hmmm so maybe LCAs would not be so good. Because squeaking and rattling drives me insane. Does the boss leguna seca has the same rear control arms we do? My dealership has a leguna seca they let me drive in around the block and that one deffinitely did not squeak. Never even seen a 302s so I have no clue about that car.

 

Also what about the J&M rear lower control arms. They claim to have some special bushing that doesn't add extra NVH. http://www.americanmuscle.com/2005-powdercoated-rear-trailing-arms.html And they are super cheap.

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That's not a spherical bearing. That is using some sort of rubber or poly or whatever bushing.

 

A spherical bushing WILL add noise. Mine at low speeds sound like a metal clunking over bumps. At speed I don't hear them, even with the radio off.

 

 

I see. So the boss 302s uses spherical bushings? Yea that metal clunking sound would be bad. So control arms with a poly bushing would be the way to go to not add these noises?

 

These shelby ones look like the bobs auto sport LCAs. http://www.shelbystore.com/product-p/z25-s5ma-5538-a.htm. They have poly bushing and use factory offset to reduce noise it says.

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On the watts:

The FAYS and the STEEDA are more or less the same type.

They are fairly good and are easy to install as they do not require welding any bracket on the car.

But I see them as not being a very clean design (too many heavy bolted brackets).

The GRIGGS and the SHELBY - CORTEX are also more or less equivalent.

They are the best (IMO) but require welding a bracket under your chassis.

(I had a GRIGGS watts on my 2007 after a TECHCO and a FAYS).

Then, some people pretend that the GRIGGS watts with the torque arm is the best of the best setup...

That would add some more welding and I just think this is *a bit too much" for a street car...but it's only my opinion and I never drove a car with this arm!

 

On NVH:

It's the type of link and the number of them which adds noise.

Be it on any arms, frt and rear.

Stock is RUBBER all over (even hydro bushings some places).

Then it's POLY (a bit more NVH).

Then it's HEIM (much more NVH).

Some mix POLY and HEIM to have a compromise between deflection and NVH.

I would never go with full HEIM for a street car.

Do not buy race only stuff for your Shelby unless you devote it only for the track and are willing to have ear plugs under your helmet...(I know from a long experience with Shelbys and Vettes and many mistakes ).

And then there is maintenance...or the lack of it... which could bring some noise in the picture.

If you have grease fittings on the POLY, then the better!

HEIMs can also have a grease fittings but that makes them weak, the HD ones have none and require extra maintenance.

Hope that helps a bit :-)

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On the watts:

The FAYS and the STEEDA are more or less the same type.

They are fairly good and are easy to install as they do not require welding any bracket on the car.

But I see them as not being a very clean design (too many heavy bolted brackets).

The GRIGGS and the SHELBY - CORTEX are also more or less equivalent.

They are the best (IMO) but require welding a bracket under your chassis.

(I had a GRIGGS watts on my 2007 after a TECHCO and a FAYS).

Then, some people pretend that the GRIGGS watts with the torque arm is the best of the best setup...

That would add some more welding and I just think this is *a bit too much" for a street car...but it's only my opinion and I never drove a car with this arm!

 

On NVH:

It's the type of link and the number of them which adds noise.

Be it on any arms, frt and rear.

Stock is RUBBER all over (even hydro bushings some places).

Then it's POLY (a bit more NVH).

Then it's HEIM (much more NVH).

Some mix POLY and HEIM to have a compromise between deflection and NVH.

I would never go with full HEIM for a street car.

Do not buy race only stuff for your Shelby unless you devote it only for the track and are willing to have ear plugs under your helmet...(I know from a long experience with Shelbys and Vettes and many mistakes ).

And then there is maintenance...or the lack of it... which could bring some noise in the picture.

If you have grease fittings on the POLY, then the better!

HEIMs can also have a grease fittings but that makes them weak, the HD ones have none and require extra maintenance.

Hope that helps a bit :-)

 

 

Yes that helps a lot. Wait so the shelby billet watts link is made by cortex? How come it says genuine shelby american then?

 

This car is basically for the street. I may track it once MAYBE twice a year. I really don't care for drag racing so I probably won't ever go there. Maybe once in the time I own this car unless I keep it forever and turn it into a dedicated track car if I go that route. But that being said what LCA would be best and what watts link? I perfer to do things that do not require permanent modification to the car. I wouldn't mind welding the shelby watts link if it really was like awesome awesome OEM quality stuff.

 

I've ruled out griggs because I've had numerous people tell me doesn't matter if I get the quiet one or regular one they are both loud. They say fays2 is best for street use. The steeda is 1000 I think so thats a bit pricy. I'm willing to pay that for the shelby billet one if it is indeed designed by shelby and a quality piece.

 

Plus I am attracted to the fays2 because of that 90 day 100% money back gurantee so for 650 only I really have nothing to lose besides the 150 my shop will charge me for install.

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