Madlock Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 You are correct about the mechanics, but just slapping on a larger caliper in the rear is a good way to find you and your car in a mangled mess. All of the larger rear kits offered take into account brake balance or bias which is not a trivial concern, so yes, you have over simplified it. The brakes on the GT500 are excellent brakes and Brembo will never offer a rear caliper. If you're able to proffer which brake vendors have created vehicle-specific rear calipers for the Mustang, you'd at least have an example to work from. Otherwise, the presumption that Brembo simply will NEVER offer a rear kit for Mustang is about as big a non sequitur imaginable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 I'm sure this has more to do with the way they are mounted on a typical straight axle like we have in the current S197 platform... But GM has been offering the 4-wheel Brembo Pkg on the SS Camaro with the IRS since 2010... Personally, I am OK with having the Brembos only on the Fronts of my BOSS... Better pads, cooling ducts and Hi-Temp fluid and you can run all day long at the track... However, from an Appearance point-of-view, I would prefer to have a matching set of Brembos on the Rear... At least on the BOSS/GT500, the OEM rear calipers are painted black so they tend to blend in a little better... Keep in mind the boss weighs way less. Also pads and hi temp fluid are a must regardless. I am hoping shelby comes out with that brake duct kit on the super snake though like they have with the past ones. I wonder how much goes into the installation though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL SHELBY Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 I'm sure this has more to do with the way they are mounted on a typical straight axle like we have in the current S197 platform... But GM has been offering the 4-wheel Brembo Pkg on the SS Camaro with the IRS since 2010... If you're able to proffer which brake vendors have created vehicle-specific rear calipers for the Mustang, you'd at least have an example to work from. Otherwise, the presumption that Brembo simply will NEVER offer a rear kit for Mustang is about as big a non sequitur imaginable. If I could find it I would share it, but Brembo has been on record stating they will not offer a caliper for the rear of the Mustang due to excessive knockback which is inherent with straight axles. http://www.stoptech....s/pad-knockback Mustang fans have been asking Brembo to offer a rear caliper since Brembos first appeared on the 2000 Cobra R. If it hasnt happened in 12 years its not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2010KonaBlueGT Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 I'm sure this has more to do with the way they are mounted on a typical straight axle like we have in the current S197 platform... But GM has been offering the 4-wheel Brembo Pkg on the SS Camaro with the IRS since 2010... I was checking out one of the new Dodge Chargers or Challengers the other day. They have factory Brembo's all the way around too. I couldn't help but ask myself, "Now why the hell couldn't FORD do that too?" Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2010KonaBlueGT Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Based on what your opinion? Show facts Mr. Brake Man Ehhhhhhhhh, you might wanna do some research there bud. Except for the "discount" comment, he's pretty much spot on. I only take exception to the discount comment because I bought both my front AND rear Baers with a discount. I paid less for all 4 than they sell just the rears for. Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NordicShelby Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 My only question is WHY have drilled rotors and advertise taking these brakes to the track ? From my experience nobody who does road racing would have drilled rotors. On my 08 SGT I have the Baer Pro Plus series brakes and I have cracked at least 4 different baer drilled rotors and two different Baer drilled and slotted rotors on the road course. Although I do not have brake cooling ducts on the SGT so that has a good deal with why they cracked but I had changed the fluid and the pads to race pads. On my Boss I have Brembos and I swapped out the Pads and the fluid and the Brakes are still in very nice condition. I have taken the Boss to the road course 3 days now and the Brembos have not faded, cracked or failed in any way. I really like the Brembos much better than the Baers. Wilwood seems like a really nice set up and I have heard many postive things about Wilwood. My only concern with this Shelby Kit is that they have HOLES drilled in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07SGT0547 Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 If I could find it I would share it, but Brembo has been on record stating they will not offer a caliper for the rear of the Mustang due to excessive knockback which is inherent with straight axles. http://www.stoptech....s/pad-knockback Mustang fans have been asking Brembo to offer a rear caliper since Brembos first appeared on the 2000 Cobra R. If it hasnt happened in 12 years its not going to happen. Knockback was the term I was looking for... Thanks! However, if the 50th Anniv 'Stang comes with IRS standard, then I would guess that any upgraded "BREMBO" brake package would include the rears as well... But who am I to say??? I keep hoping for a 2014 BOSS 351... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2010KonaBlueGT Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 I keep hoping for a 2014 BOSS 351... From the rumors I'm hearing, you may possibly get your wish. Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2010KonaBlueGT Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Wilwood seems like a really nice set up and I have heard many postive things about Wilwood. Wilwood has been around forever. The first *I* heard of Baer was after I bought my GT500 in '09. That's not to say they haven't been around forever, only that that's the first I'd heard of them. I've known the name Wilwood since about the 70's (on hot rods, customs, etc.). Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tob Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 The first *I* heard of Baer was after I bought my GT500 in '09. That's not to say they haven't been around forever, only that that's the first I'd heard of them. Phill Baer was kicking everyone's ass at the end of the Fox body run. Their Blublocker car dominated machinery that was supposed to be far more sophisticated. http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2005/08/01/hmn_feature18.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrickshelby Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Ehhhhhhhhh, you might wanna do some research there bud. Except for the "discount" comment, he's pretty much spot on. I only take exception to the discount comment because I bought both my front AND rear Baers with a discount. I paid less for all 4 than they sell just the rears for. Phill You are right Phill. I was just saying Shelby did not discount them since the introduction of the Wilwood. Like a clearance sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 If I could find it I would share it, but Brembo has been on record stating they will not offer a caliper for the rear of the Mustang due to excessive knockback which is inherent with straight axles. http://www.stoptech....s/pad-knockback Mustang fans have been asking Brembo to offer a rear caliper since Brembos first appeared on the 2000 Cobra R. If it hasnt happened in 12 years its not going to happen. Wait if its the knockback due to the SRA then why have the aftermarket made 4 and 6 piston real caliper systems? How come they don't have problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 I was checking out one of the new Dodge Chargers or Challengers the other day. They have factory Brembo's all the way around too. I couldn't help but ask myself, "Now why the hell couldn't FORD do that too?" Phill Are the challengers and chargers IRS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL SHELBY Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Wait if its the knockback due to the SRA then why have the aftermarket made 4 and 6 piston real caliper systems? How come they don't have problems? They use a floating caliper which isn't as efficent as a fixed caliper or they didn't address it at all. On the street knockback is not typically and issue but under aggressive driving it can be. Are the challengers and chargers IRS? Yes. Additionally, any aftermarket rear kit has to take into account the parking brake which is not a simple problem from a packaging standpoint to address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 So then pretty much the mustang is the only car out there with SRA. Thats just sad on fords part...........I don't understand that at all even from a weight saving point of view. They could very easily just make the body panels of the shelby only made from something lighter to offset the IRS weight. Plus it would help give the car more neutral balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL SHELBY Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 My understanding is that it was more of a cost savings decision. Keep in mind that when the S197 was introduced it was on the only pony car on the street for three years. And frankly from a performance stand point, neither GM nor Chrysler/Dodge has bested Ford and the Mustang. Sure the ZL1 is impressive but without the magnetic ride it cannot outperform the S197 and its 'iron girder' rear axle and single piston two piece rear brakes. The M3 doesn’t outright outperform the S197. Clearly Ford will not be able to continue with it's current S197 platform as GM has caught up and the Mustang loyal expect/demand more. Hopefully the 2015 will be a grandslam in both performance and looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 My understanding is that it was more of a cost savings decision. Keep in mind that when the S197 was introduced it was on the only pony car on the street for three years. And frankly from a performance stand point, neither GM nor Chrysler/Dodge has bested Ford and the Mustang. Sure the ZL1 is impressive but without the magnetic ride it cannot outperform the S197 and its 'iron girder' rear axle and single piston two piece rear brakes. The M3 doesn’t outright outperform the S197. Clearly Ford will not be able to continue with it's current S197 platform as GM has caught up and the Mustang loyal expect/demand more. Hopefully the 2015 will be a grandslam in both performance and looks. I wonder how much more it would have cost. Given how the zl1 has so much tech in it and its cheaper. Though granted we have a MUCH better engine. I feel if this car came with an IRS, 4 piston caliper, different interior of a v6, and the price point didn't change. My god we'd have the most perfect car at under 150k, maybe even 200k. But we shall see what they do with the 2015. If they address all these issues I may have to trade my 13 for one . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL SHELBY Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 GM has the ability to leverage development cost of tech across multiple models/brands that Ford does not. GM has also been able to sell its tech to other manufactures. This is how GM can offer more for less. I assume this is one of several reasons Ford is moving the Mustang to a global platform for '15. This will allow them to better take advantage of the developments by Ford of Europe and Ford Performance Vehicles (FPV) in Australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 GM has the ability to leverage development cost of tech across multiple models/brands that Ford does not. GM has also been able to sell its tech to other manufactures. This is how GM can offer more for less. I assume this is one of several reasons Ford is moving the Mustang to a global platform for '15. This will allow them to better take advantage of the developments by Ford of Europe and Ford Performance Vehicles (FPV) in Australia. I see...... That makes sense. But then maybe the shelby won't be coming in 2015? They would need some time to get those benefits I would imagine? So maybe it would take 2 years like with 2005? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 So then pretty much the mustang is the only car out there with SRA. Thats just sad on fords part...........I don't understand that at all even from a weight saving point of view. They could very easily just make the body panels of the shelby only made from something lighter to offset the IRS weight. Plus it would help give the car more neutral balance. Jesus. How quickly people forget that Ford had been operating at an $85B competitive disadvantage and spending the past 6 years rebuilding the parts of the business that needed it most, first. It didn't have the luxury of spending itself out of business and then running to Obama for more. Even the 2015 WITH IRS is only a means to the end of greater eventual profit - and not some inherent desire to NOT have a live axle. Besides, many (including me) have great affinity for an SRA's more linear, analog feel. And progressive years' cars have shown decided reinvestment in technology, powertrain and other areas that HAVE delivered a MUCH greater ROI in MUCH shorter order than adding an IRS for the silly reason that Mustang MUST because Camaro DOES. It's even funnier that people cite such a revered name as Brembo as having forsworn a rear S197 kit because of supposed technical issues so-called "lesser" competitors seem to have overcome quite readily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 GM has the ability to leverage development cost of tech across multiple models/brands that Ford does not. GM has also been able to sell its tech to other manufactures. This is how GM can offer more for less. I assume this is one of several reasons Ford is moving the Mustang to a global platform for '15. This will allow them to better take advantage of the developments by Ford of Europe and Ford Performance Vehicles (FPV) in Australia. GM being able to spend for the last decade like its balance sheet didn't matter and then raping bondholders, creditors and ultimately taxpayers is how it's funded what it's done - which is hardly a trick given that we should be putting a man on Mars and curing Herpes for a fraction of the same dough. Blowing trillions is hardly a technical, or business, achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2010KonaBlueGT Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Are the challengers and chargers IRS? I don't think so but I can't say for sure. Maybe someone else knows for sure. EDIT: Looks like I should'a read ahead! Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 I don't think so but I can't say for sure. Maybe someone else knows for sure. Phill It was answered above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Jesus. How quickly people forget that Ford had been operating at an $85B competitive disadvantage and spending the past 6 years rebuilding the parts of the business that needed it most, first. It didn't have the luxury of spending itself out of business and then running to Obama for more. Even the 2015 WITH IRS is only a means to the end of greater eventual profit - and not some inherent desire to NOT have a live axle. Besides, many (including me) have great affinity for an SRA's more linear, analog feel. And progressive years' cars have shown decided reinvestment in technology, powertrain and other areas that HAVE delivered a MUCH greater ROI in MUCH shorter order than adding an IRS for the silly reason that Mustang MUST because Camaro DOES. It's even funnier that people cite such a revered name as Brembo as having forsworn a rear S197 kit because of supposed technical issues so-called "lesser" competitors seem to have overcome quite readily. If the SRA was such a great thing. Every other company in the world would use it. I understand the whole Ford didn't take bailout money but that doesn't explain why everyone else has an IRS. That may explain why GM has an IRS. The mustang doesn't need an IRS because the camaro does. The mustang needs it simply because its superior hence why every other manufactuer uses it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL SHELBY Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 GM being able to spend for the last decade like its balance sheet didn't matter and then raping bondholders, creditors and ultimately taxpayers is how it's funded what it's done - which is hardly a trick given that we should be putting a man on Mars and curing Herpes for a fraction of the same dough. Blowing trillions is hardly a technical, or business, achievement. I'm no more happy about the bailout than you are but I recognize it's necessity even thow it would have cost less to pay evey man and woman over 50 $2M and told them to retire and buy a new domestic car. It would have created jobs and save the US Auto Industry, and I'll leave it at that. However, GM's (and Chrysler's) ability to offer more tech than Ford at a lower price has nothing to do with balance sheets and more to do with the products they sell. The Camaro is a fairly well executed conglomeration of Holden, Caddie, and Corvette parts. Without them GM most likely could have never brought the Camaro back from the grave. Aside from the engine and rear axle, the Mustang shares very little with its stable mates. Now how about we get back on the topic of Wilwoods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Yes the wilwoods. When will they offer larger rotors? If they make a kit with 15 inch rotor up front and 14. whatever the rear is to match stock I will then buy a set. I like the look of the darker rotor too. Not to derail this thread again but I just say the ford mytouch system in a car that thing is bad ass why didn't we get that? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrickshelby Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 Right. If the 13' OEM GT500 Brembo frt. 15" brake kit is going to be offered by FRPP... If any 13' GT500 owner wants to upgrade his system. A Wilwood frt. 15" is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL SHELBY Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 With out side by side testing to confirm I wouldn't assume that a 15in rotor is better than a 14in. I havent looked at Wilwood's site lately to see what size Wilwood offers but I know they have multiple rotor sizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 With out side by side testing to confirm I wouldn't assume that a 15in rotor is better than a 14in. I havent looked at Wilwood's site lately to see what size Wilwood offers but I know they have multiple rotor sizes. How could a smaller rotor be better than a larger one if the piston size is the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrickshelby Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 How could a smaller rotor be better than a larger one if the piston size is the same? As I understand it from my Z06 recent experience, when I switched from my frt.14" Stoptech to the 15" Stoptech rotors: 1st ) there is the weight. If you get minor braking advantage but lot's more rotational weight...it's bad. The rotor's weight on a 15" is far away from the center hub! 2nd ) there is bias, frt-to-rear. If you have not a good built in anti dive in the geometry of the car, the additional front brake power could make the car unstable when braking hard... But the weight distribution of a Shelby is way more on the front so increasing the frt brake power would be less of a drama for overall balance. IMO of course, and I am no brake expert! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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