Brembo Brakes

[OneTrickPony]

Just an observation as I was walking to my car when I saw a Hyndia Genesis ( please forgive spelling if incorrect). Walking around the car I was suprised to see that it had factory installed Brembo's on ALL FOUR CORNERS. Why do we just get upgraded rear pads instead of Brembos' on all four corners? This is a flagship performance car for Ford, it would sure be nice to see matching calipers on all four corners.

Hopefully Ford will step up to the plate next year and install matching brake pods on the car along with IRS. Oh yeah, and wider wheels and tires. I would be all over it.

[theace]

IIRC it has to do with the balance of the car and not having an IRS. No joke.

[662HP631TQ]

WHO CARES!! Only 2 people of the hundreds that own the car care. If you want brembos all around, then buy the Genesis.

Come on! You are comparing apples to bluberries here. So they slapped 4 brembos on a huge piece of crap... Well you know what they say, you can polish a piece of crap but it is still a piece of crap.

Come on dude, focus on what is right and quit nit-picking. God that annoys me so much. Why on Earth would someone buy a 60K+ car to bitch about it, maybe you should have shopped around.

[07SGT4578]

 

(null)

[svt13]

WHO CARES!! Only 2 people of the hundreds that own the car care. If you want brembos all around, then buy the Genesis.

Come on! You are comparing apples to bluberries here. So they slapped 4 brembos on a huge piece of crap... Well you know what they say, you can polish a piece of crap but it is still a piece of crap.

Come on dude, focus on what is right and quit nit-picking. God that annoys me so much. Why on Earth would someone buy a 60K+ car to bitch about it, maybe you should have shopped around.

 

 

lol

 

As far as to the OP I feel the same way. I think ford ran out of money or didn't feel it was worth spending extra money to do a larger piston like say Shelby America does with their upgrades. Though Roger said they have been working on carbon ceramic brakes for the last 9 months. If those become available and function properly, than at that point I don't give a sh** what our piston sizes are i'll just get those rotors. Then it won't even matter if you see other cars with larger than 1 piston calipers because you will have carbon ceramic brakes that whoop everything. And no more brake dust on your wheels

[Roush GR40]

There's really something here to talk about. The ZL1 brakes were rated superior to the GT500 by all, and with a 20" rear wheel, visually speaking, the rear single piston calipers are terrible. 4 pots all the way around would certainly take care of both concerns.

[svt13]

There's really something here to talk about. The ZL1 brakes were rated superior to the GT500 by all, and with a 20" rear wheel, visually speaking, the rear single piston calipers are terrible. 4 pots all the way around would certainly take care of both concerns.

 

 

Of course they are superior. Their rear piston size is 4 while ours is 1. The front is the same. So logic would follow from there.

[moody03svt]

So maybe a bit of thread hijacking here, but if we did want to make the most of the 4 pistons up front and 1 in the back (and wanted VERY LITTLE brake dust.).... what carbon ceramic brake pads would you recommend?

[Snoopy49]

It seems to me that the majority of the complaints about the rear brakes, center around the single piston caliper. Since no one that actually owns one of these cars is complaining about brake performance or fade, I have to conclude that it is all about appearance.

 

Before you run out and buy a new rear brake setup just because it looks good, be aware that the braking system that Ford put on this car was a system that was designed to be balanced. From a liability standpoint, do you think that Ford would intentional install an inferior braking system component just to save money? They have been advertising and bragging on the 200+ mph speed capability of this car. They had to consider that there would be at least one buyer crazy enough to prove them right or wrong. Because of that they had to design a braking system that would safely stop a 4000 lbs car going 200+ mph.

 

If you decide to upgrade your rear brakes, don't buy them because they look good, buy them because you actually have safety concerns or a need for additional braking performance do to your driving needs, in that case buy a set that is designed to work with your stock front brakes and takes into consideration front to rear balance. This is one case were bigger isn't always better.

[Roush GR40]

Stopping from 200 mph (or any speed) once is VERY different than repeatedly stopping while racing or doing open track events. Every road course review by racing experts mentioned brake fade...and how the GT500 lost time against the ZL1. Anyone that plans to agressively open track their car needs to be thinking about an upgrade.

[Snoopy49]

Stopping from 200 mph (or any speed) once is VERY different than repeatedly stopping while racing or doing open track events. Every road course review by racing experts mentioned brake fade...and how the GT500 lost time against the ZL1. Anyone that plans to aggressively open track their car needs to be thinking about an upgrade.

 

 

Realistically, how many people road race these cars? The race crowd will always modify their cars based on the type of racing involved. Ford designed this as a street car with race car qualities. I doubt that the race crowd will be more concerned about what a part looks like over it's functionality. I don't care how big and bad a part looks, if it doesn't' work they won't waste their money on it.

For the majority of the people that buy these cars, the standard brakes are "NOT" worth replacing.

[Roush GR40]

Realistically...how many people are doing 200 mph? Agreed...the car in it's stock fashion is more than adequate to 99.9% of owners. I am on open track junkie..and would definitely be upgrading my brakes/pads and adding some cooling.

[Snoopy49]

I wish I had the ability to enjoy one of these cars to the max, but I am just an old fart that will have to be content with the car as it is, i don't have a problem with that. I will make a few changes that I think are necessary, air filter, oil separator and hood struts. I may make other changes, but only if they are absolutely necessary. I will have to wait until I get my car and drive it for an extended period of time to determine my needs.

For those like you, the brakes are just a small part of the mods you are likely to make and with the cost of track time, fuel and tires, I don't think you will make any mods that aren't necessary.

[svt13]

So maybe a bit of thread hijacking here, but if we did want to make the most of the 4 pistons up front and 1 in the back (and wanted VERY LITTLE brake dust.).... what carbon ceramic brake pads would you recommend?

 

 

Not talking about pads. And first off the shelby now has a 6 piston front rotor. The rotors need to be carbon ceramic. That is the way to maximize the stock brakes.

[svt13]

Realistically, how many people road race these cars? The race crowd will always modify their cars based on the type of racing involved. Ford designed this as a street car with race car qualities. I doubt that the race crowd will be more concerned about what a part looks like over it's functionality. I don't care how big and bad a part looks, if it doesn't' work they won't waste their money on it.

For the majority of the people that buy these cars, the standard brakes are "NOT" worth replacing.

 

 

Given how I've driven the car 1500 miles now, the brakes are not worth replacing. So I agree with you there. It would all be for looks to repalce the rear rotor with a 6 piston one. But because its only 1 piston makes these brakes suck for track events. The only reason I would upgrade the rotors if shelby goes thru with a carbon ceramic version is because they won't heat up when I do my "spirited" driving and more importantly HARDLY ANY BRAKE DUST TO CLEAN. I will glady pay 3000 w/e dollars to not have to clean my damn wheels every 3-4 days. And those pp wheels are a bitch to clean. It would be much easier if it was a simple 5 spoke.

[Snoopy49]

Why don't you just go out and spend a $100 on ceramic brake pads. You can either install them yourself or pay to have them installed.

[svt13]

Why don't you just go out and spend a $100 on ceramic brake pads. You can either install them yourself or pay to have them installed.

 

 

Well would that effect brake performance in a negative way? Also last time I put hawk ceramic pads on a mustang every time I lightly would ease off the break I'd hear a very loud weird noise. It wasn't a screech that brakes make but it was loud, I don't know how to describe it.

[OneTrickPony]

WHO CARES!! Only 2 people of the hundreds that own the car care. If you want brembos all around, then buy the Genesis.

Come on! You are comparing apples to bluberries here. So they slapped 4 brembos on a huge piece of crap... Well you know what they say, you can polish a piece of crap but it is still a piece of crap.

Come on dude, focus on what is right and quit nit-picking. God that annoys me so much. Why on Earth would someone buy a 60K+ car to bitch about it, maybe you should have shopped around.

 

 

YOU ARE ONE RUDE ABNOXIOUS JERK. Didn't even say I liked the car, just made a comment about the brakes. 60k is a lot of money and if other auto makers can put matching brakes on their cars why can't Ford?

ie 370z, Challenger, Camero, yeah even a Hyndia. I don't want upgraded brake pads for 60k, I want my car to look and be complete.

 

By the way I also own a 2012 Raptor, 2012 SEL Focus and a 2011 Limited Edge. What's in your garage DUDE. I support the boys at the Blue Oval a 110%. I've purchased 7 new Ford products since 2007, I don't need to shop around either.

[OneTrickPony]

It seems to me that the majority of the complaints about the rear brakes, center around the single piston caliper. Since no one that actually owns one of these cars is complaining about brake performance or fade, I have to conclude that it is all about appearance.

 

Before you run out and buy a new rear brake setup just because it looks good, be aware that the braking system that Ford put on this car was a system that was designed to be balanced. From a liability standpoint, do you think that Ford would intentional install an inferior braking system component just to save money? They have been advertising and bragging on the 200+ mph speed capability of this car. They had to consider that there would be at least one buyer crazy enough to prove them right or wrong. Because of that they had to design a braking system that would safely stop a 4000 lbs car going 200+ mph.

 

If you decide to upgrade your rear brakes, don't buy them because they look good, buy them because you actually have safety concerns or a need for additional braking performance do to your driving needs, in that case buy a set that is designed to work with your stock front brakes and takes into consideration front to rear balance. This is one case were bigger isn't always better.

 

 

For me its all about the looks, Why did all of us buy the Shelby instead of the Camero or other brand in the first place, its about the looks. Some of the guys put different wheels and tires on their cars, not for performance reasons, just the looks. Kind of like looking at a woman, most men will always make an observation or comment about a womans appearance no matter how nice looking the person is, if she only had a nice _______ she'd be hot or what ever.

[662HP631TQ]

Like I said, VERY FEW people care about this. Very Few! Is it unfortunate that 99% of people aren't going to track the Hell out of this car? Maybe. For me this is a $60K car I can afford, but is at the higher end of a car I can afford. I don't want to trash my $65K car, because I just don't have the means to buy another or continuously repair it. I believe in building a track car out of something that is more easily replaceable and repairable and economical, at least in my situation. The car is awesome as it is stock. People are getting way to pumped up on Chevy Vs. Ford, and paying too much attention to publications. If I let every "Expert" convince me to do this or buy that, I'd be broke by now. Sometimes you have to just have to be content with what you have and enjoy it. I can see times where that shouldn't be your feeling about something, but in this instance, I'd rather cruise my car and have fun in it. I am tired of modifications and voided warranties and all that crap...Damn, I've gone on a rant haven't I?

 

My apologies.

 

Brakes are good as is. Upgrade if you are track serious. If most people have't complained, they are probably pretty good!

But upgrade if you want!

[662HP631TQ]

YOU ARE ONE RUDE ABNOXIOUS JERK. Didn't even say I liked the car, just made a comment about the brakes. 60k is a lot of money and if other auto makers can put matching brakes on their cars why can't Ford?

ie 370z, Challenger, Camero, yeah even a Hyndia. I don't want upgraded brake pads for 60k, I want my car to look and be complete.

 

By the way I also own a 2012 Raptor, 2012 SEL Focus and a 2011 Limited Edge. What's in your garage DUDE. I support the boys at the Blue Oval a 110%. I've purchased 7 new Ford products since 2007, I don't need to shop around either.

 

 

My apologies if I canme off as rude, it wasn't my intention. I didn't call you a "bitch" I used it as a term, similar to "griping" I'll tell you one thing, I don't support brands. I am not a Ford guy at heart. I own a 2005 Malibu LTZ (Only because I bought it SUPER CHEAP), 1979 Ford F-150 4X4 Long Bed completely restored in mint condition, 2004 Ford Focus SVT (Also aquired SUPER CHEAP) and a 2011 Toyota Highlander Limited 4x4 for the wife and Family. I sold my Dodge Caliber SRT-4 when I was able to buy something nicer and less electrically problematic. I do fine financially if that is what you are asking. If you are asking where my alegiances lie in automobiles, I have none. I can't do that. I buy things that get me excited and the Shelby did just that. It excited me enough to not nitpick it. It just amazes me how the 1% of owners nitpick at. I guess I can understand, but I can't sympathize, my apologies Sir.

[EL SHELBY]

This is a question that has surfaced here many times over the forum’s 5 years, so I don’t know that it’s accurate that ‘very few people care’.

 

It’s not so much a Ford issue for not offering Brembos on the rear. Brembo does not offer brake calipers for the rear due to 'knock-back' which is inherent with a solid axle. Brembo could design a system that would work but the performance gained would be negligible.

 

Ford does not offer larger rear brakes because the rear brakes have very little to do with stopping a car have more to do with controlling the back end during braking. 80% or more of the stopping power comes from the front brakes and rest has more to do with your tires than anything else.

 

As for brake fade, this has more to do with your pads, rotors, brake fluid and even the driver than the caliper. All brakes as they go thru repeated heat cycles fade, controlling the level of that fade is accomplished thru various pad compounds, rotors, and cooling (losing a few pounds off the car wouldn’t hurt either).

 

The ZL1 comes with brake cooling where the '13 does not unless you spring for the Track Pack option, I think.

 

The BOSS 302R and all the prior S197 based race cars use the exact same rear brake calipers as what is offered on the V6 & GT Mustang. This is more likely due to the rules if the series than choice but it doesnt appear they have any issues stopping.

 

Big rear brakes look cool on any Mustang, but they are over kill and mostly only add to the rear’s un-sprung weight, which is a bad thing.

 

 

http://www.stoptech....-brake-upgrades

[662HP631TQ]

This is a question that has surfaced here many times over the forum’s 5 years, so I don’t know that it’s accurate that ‘very few people care’.

 

It’s not so much a Ford issue for not offering Brembos on the rear. Brembo does not offer brake calipers for the rear due to 'knock-back' which is inherent with a solid axle. Brembo could design a system that would work but the performance gained would be negligible.

 

Ford does not offer larger rear brakes because the rear brakes have very little to do with stopping a car have more to do with controlling the back end during braking. 80% or more of the stopping power comes from the front brakes and rest has more to do with your tires than anything else.

 

As for brake fade, this has more to do with your pads, rotors, brake fluid and even the driver than the caliper. All brakes as they go thru repeated heat cycles fade, controlling the level of that fade is accomplished thru various pad compounds, rotors, and cooling (losing a few pounds off the car wouldn’t hurt either).

 

The ZL1 comes with brake cooling where the '13 does not unless you spring for the Track Pack option, I think.

 

The BOSS 302R and all the prior S197 based race cars use the exact same rear brake calipers as what is offered on the V6 & GT Mustang. This is more likely due to the rules if the series than choice but it doesnt appear they have any issues stopping.

 

Big rear brakes look cool on any Mustang, but they are over kill and mostly only add to the rear’s un-sprung weight, which is a bad thing.

 

 

http://www.stoptech....-brake-upgrades

 

 

Bingo! and Thanks for the enlightening information. I knew we would get something good out of this thread eventually. I like the way you explained it! Thanks again!

[svt13]

This is a question that has surfaced here many times over the forum’s 5 years, so I don’t know that it’s accurate that ‘very few people care’.

 

It’s not so much a Ford issue for not offering Brembos on the rear. Brembo does not offer brake calipers for the rear due to 'knock-back' which is inherent with a solid axle. Brembo could design a system that would work but the performance gained would be negligible.

 

Ford does not offer larger rear brakes because the rear brakes have very little to do with stopping a car have more to do with controlling the back end during braking. 80% or more of the stopping power comes from the front brakes and rest has more to do with your tires than anything else.

 

As for brake fade, this has more to do with your pads, rotors, brake fluid and even the driver than the caliper. All brakes as they go thru repeated heat cycles fade, controlling the level of that fade is accomplished thru various pad compounds, rotors, and cooling (losing a few pounds off the car wouldn’t hurt either).

 

The ZL1 comes with brake cooling where the '13 does not unless you spring for the Track Pack option, I think.

 

The BOSS 302R and all the prior S197 based race cars use the exact same rear brake calipers as what is offered on the V6 & GT Mustang. This is more likely due to the rules if the series than choice but it doesnt appear they have any issues stopping.

 

Big rear brakes look cool on any Mustang, but they are over kill and mostly only add to the rear’s un-sprung weight, which is a bad thing.

 

 

http://www.stoptech....-brake-upgrades

 

 

Thats why they should have made carbon ceramic brakes. And no the track pack doesn't come with brake cooling ducts. They don't need to put 4 or 6 piston on the rear but I mean one piston? Would 2 really have added much more weight? Just for looks

[svt13]

Like I said, VERY FEW people care about this. Very Few! Is it unfortunate that 99% of people aren't going to track the Hell out of this car? Maybe. For me this is a $60K car I can afford, but is at the higher end of a car I can afford. I don't want to trash my $65K car, because I just don't have the means to buy another or continuously repair it. I believe in building a track car out of something that is more easily replaceable and repairable and economical, at least in my situation. The car is awesome as it is stock. People are getting way to pumped up on Chevy Vs. Ford, and paying too much attention to publications. If I let every "Expert" convince me to do this or buy that, I'd be broke by now. Sometimes you have to just have to be content with what you have and enjoy it. I can see times where that shouldn't be your feeling about something, but in this instance, I'd rather cruise my car and have fun in it. I am tired of modifications and voided warranties and all that crap...Damn, I've gone on a rant haven't I?

 

My apologies.

 

Brakes are good as is. Upgrade if you are track serious. If most people have't complained, they are probably pretty good!

But upgrade if you want!

 

 

I am tired of modification and voided warranties too. Though I really wish adding a TB,intake, and tune wouldn't void it!!! . 100 hp only 1000 dollars away

[662HP631TQ]

I am tired of modification and voided warranties too. Though I really wish adding a TB,intake, and tune wouldn't void it!!! . 100 hp only 1000 dollars away

 

 

I am, but I figure leave it stock during warranty, once it runs out modify the hell out of it. by that time parts may be cheaper and easier to install with all bugs worked out.

So it really isn't that gig a deal.

[Madlock]

WHO CARES!! Only 2 people of the hundreds that own the car care. If you want brembos all around, then buy the Genesis.

 

 

Then you and the other 1 in 100 will kindly stay the hell away from ME on the road, please.

 

Clearly, many aspects of the car are built to a particular price point rather than having the content determine the price. In MOST respects, Ford has managed this complicated series of compromises very well. But ESPECIALLY when it comes to something as critical as braking, I wish Ford had dug deeper - or even raised the sticker accordingly.

 

In the same vein, it's a shame for ANY $70K car to NOT have a premium interior trim option that would've offered no-compromise door panels and so forth. How much do Shelby owners generally spend on aftermarket doodads to improve upon (or at least change) what Ford has done, when Ford could have had all that extra money for its own coffers at a net component cost of less than $200.

 

It's one of the many ways the same old arcane, insular and inbred culture within and unique to Detroit car making continues to prevail. As well as Ford has done to maximize the ROI of virtually every investment it's made, it remains blind to the value upon brand perception eliminating any potential perceived shortcomings (like cheap or inconsistent component quality can have).

 

How much more would it have cost to make GT500 a car that's not just a better performer than ZL1, but indisputably better in every way - down to the seat stitching? As long as Detroit allows these fissures to exist, it will continue to give people excuses to buy elsewhere - like Hyundai, whose phenomenal ascendancy from obscure maker of Korean crap to one of the world's fastest growing and most profitable car makers.

 

It's not because Hyundai's cars are any better or more reliable, it's because Hyundai (and Kia) packs every car with as much value as they can possibly hold. And make no mistake, 9 times in 10, a person would rather buy $12K worth of car for $10 than receive $28K of car after paying $30. There's simply no excuse why at least GT500 doesn't have a well-made all-leather interior.

 

As for the brakes, I do believe the nature of the live axle setup has left Ford out in the cold in terms of what Brembo is willing to support. So, rather than mixing and matching or going with a lesser-known vendor for the fronts that could provide brakes for the rear too (like Baer or Wilwood), Ford either casts the calipers itself or contracts them to a bulk supplier.

 

That's my biggest niggle. I'd LOVE to have Brembos on all 4 corners, but that's just not going to happen. I also don't want to start mixing and matching. So that now leaves me with pretty much the Shelby Extreme brakes if I want equivalent fronts and top-tier rear braking to go with them - a hefty bump of about $6,500.00 to pull-off - even BEFORE installation.

 

Because brakes aren't just a dress-up part that can be popped-in or stuck-on, this is precisely the kind of feature option Ford would've done wonders among its enthusiast base to consider. But even then, a bespoke solution for only 4,000 cars/year is damned expensive. And from an antagonist's perspective, it's just one of the many ways Ford leaves GT500 exposed to potshots by naysayers who then take the ball and run by (falsely) claiming it's only about going fast in a straight line and nothing more.

 

I hate the thought of replacing perfectly terrific 6-piston Brembos up front JUST to get decent brakes in the rear, but it's something I MAY need to prepare myself to do. And if I do, it will be with the Baer Shelby Extremes. I just haven't seen enough unequivocal data about the new Wilwood sets Shelby carries to look upon them without reservation.

[Snoopy49]

Madlock,

Did you read post #22 by EL SHELBY, he does a good job of explaining how brakes work and gives a link to an informative article.

Don't give into brake envy, bigger isn't always better. :beerchug:

[662HP631TQ]

Then you and the other 1 in 100 will kindly stay the hell away from ME on the road, please.

 

Clearly, many aspects of the car are built to a particular price point rather than having the content determine the price. In MOST respects, Ford has managed this complicated series of compromises very well. But ESPECIALLY when it comes to something as critical as braking, I wish Ford had dug deeper - or even raised the sticker accordingly.

 

In the same vein, it's a shame for ANY $70K car to NOT have a premium interior trim option that would've offered no-compromise door panels and so forth. How much do Shelby owners generally spend on aftermarket doodads to improve upon (or at least change) what Ford has done, when Ford could have had all that extra money for its own coffers at a net component cost of less than $200.

 

It's one of the many ways the same old arcane, insular and inbred culture within and unique to Detroit car making continues to prevail. As well as Ford has done to maximize the ROI of virtually every investment it's made, it remains blind to the value upon brand perception eliminating any potential perceived shortcomings (like cheap or inconsistent component quality can have).

 

How much more would it have cost to make GT500 a car that's not just a better performer than ZL1, but indisputably better in every way - down to the seat stitching? As long as Detroit allows these fissures to exist, it will continue to give people excuses to buy elsewhere - like Hyundai, whose phenomenal ascendancy from obscure maker of Korean crap to one of the world's fastest growing and most profitable car makers.

 

It's not because Hyundai's cars are any better or more reliable, it's because Hyundai (and Kia) packs every car with as much value as they can possibly hold. And make no mistake, 9 times in 10, a person would rather buy $12K worth of car for $10 than receive $28K of car after paying $30. There's simply no excuse why at least GT500 doesn't have a well-made all-leather interior.

 

As for the brakes, I do believe the nature of the live axle setup has left Ford out in the cold in terms of what Brembo is willing to support. So, rather than mixing and matching or going with a lesser-known vendor for the fronts that could provide brakes for the rear too (like Baer or Wilwood), Ford either casts the calipers itself or contracts them to a bulk supplier.

 

That's my biggest niggle. I'd LOVE to have Brembos on all 4 corners, but that's just not going to happen. I also don't want to start mixing and matching. So that now leaves me with pretty much the Shelby Extreme brakes if I want equivalent fronts and top-tier rear braking to go with them - a hefty bump of about $6,500.00 to pull-off - even BEFORE installation.

 

Because brakes aren't just a dress-up part that can be popped-in or stuck-on, this is precisely the kind of feature option Ford would've done wonders among its enthusiast base to consider. But even then, a bespoke solution for only 4,000 cars/year is damned expensive. And from an antagonist's perspective, it's just one of the many ways Ford leaves GT500 exposed to potshots by naysayers who then take the ball and run by (falsely) claiming it's only about going fast in a straight line and nothing more.

 

I hate the thought of replacing perfectly terrific 6-piston Brembos up front JUST to get decent brakes in the rear, but it's something I MAY need to prepare myself to do. And if I do, it will be with the Baer Shelby Extremes. I just haven't seen enough unequivocal data about the new Wilwood sets Shelby carries to look upon them without reservation.

 

 

Very eloquently said, but the fact remains it is a Genesis (history has shown it isn't a reliable car). I COMPLETELY agree with your statement on Hyundai’s ascension, it would be hard to dispute that. Even their bigger luxury cars are competing with the likes of Mercedes-Benz and Bavarian Motor Werks.

I don't understand what you mean to stay the hell away from you. I am not 1 of the very few who complains. I like my car how it is, they did a good job. As if the stock rear brakes are some kind of danger on the road. They aren't, MAYBE potentially, and negligible at that, on the track.

 

Once I get back and drive more, I'll enjoy the hell out of my car for what it is, and not worry about what publications say nor what other GM or Camaro fanboys say. I don't care. The ZL1 is a hell of a car, and I almost bought one. I didn't like their interior though, so I had to say no. I am going to focus on how I feel in the car, not what for supposedly failed to deliver on. They have Great engineers, and those engineers did an amazing job. So I still say those who nitpick, should have bought a different car.

 

I do agree on what I have read, Shelby owners upgrade the hell out of their cars, I won't be one of them. So, we don't have the same perspective on that, but I can see where you are coming from.

[EL SHELBY]

Madlock, if you decided to go away from the Brembos please let me know. I would be happy to take them off your hands!