Not a 200 MPH Car

[Freak]

I have not read that they claim to beat an IRS...but I may have missed it...

 

 

I haven't seen that either, I based my comment soley on svt13's claim that they told him that.

[Doug_GT350]

I would say...

Very simply....

WHO CARES!!!!!!

 

AND THAT ladies and gentleman is well said. Do you like the car BUY IT, if NOT DON'T!

 

It is really that simple. I'll give all the wins to GM and I'll still buy the Shelby I like it better and the the interior is much better than that of the ZL1. I am not buying because it is Ford, nor because it beats a ZL1. I am buying it because I genuinely really like this car!

Magazines PSHHTTT! They won't sway my decisions.

 

I don't care how fast the Camaro is, it will never outrun it's own uglyness!

 

I think this summary says it all. These magazines don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. All they care about is their vaginal comfort.

 

[svt13]

I haven't seen that either, I based my comment soley on svt13's claim that they told him that.

 

 

they told me that I don't know lol. I don't have experience with this stuff. I mean all I can say is that my shelby feels the exact same over bumps and such as my uncles m3 which obviously has an IRS. The first time I got in this car the first car that came to my head as far as feel was BMW. I don't know if thats due to shocks or springs or w/e.

 

Here on griggs website they say how a LRA can be better than IRS.

 

http://www.grigg ing.com/product_info.php?cPath=4332_4309_4320_3685&products_id=443

[patrickshelby]

they told me that I don't know lol. I don't have experience with this stuff. I mean all I can say is that my shelby feels the exact same over bumps and such as my uncles m3 which obviously has an IRS. The first time I got in this car the first car that came to my head as far as feel was BMW. I don't know if thats due to shocks or springs or w/e.

 

It depends if you use your GT500 to go to the local Mc Donald or if you track it or canyon race it.

Experience (safely) high speed driving with different cars and then you will understand some more by yourself.

 

Here on griggs website they say how a LRA can be better than IRS.

 

http://www.grigg ...products_id=443

 

 

Yeah... IF...then it COULD...OK.

[James Harman]

My 2013 is awesome too, Would't ever trade for anything else, I don't care if it will hit 200+, I like my shelby!!!

[bergenfelter]

My 2013 is awesome too, Would't ever trade for anything else, I don't care if it will hit 200+, I like my shelby!!!

 

+1

[Captain Beyond]

I don't care how fast the Camaro is, it will never outrun it's own uglyness!

 

 

 

[svt13]

Yeah... IF...then it COULD...OK.

 

 

Mcdonalds in my new shelby? .....Are you crazy???

 

Well it feels the same as an m3 at high speeds. Take that for what its worth. Actually this car is more stable at high speeds than a new m3. So IDK if thats physics defying LRA or IRS. But i'm very picky about these things. And I won't compare this to the other cars I've driven at high speeds because they were either old or not performance cars.

[EL SHELBY]

 

I meant no offence SVT13!

 

I have not read that they claim to beat an IRS...but I may have missed it...

To me it's just they go as far as possible to improve and optimize the live axle.

On a slick smooth road race track, the current Mustang is quite good.

BUT

Anyone pretending a live axle can challenge an IRS on rough pavement (real life roads) is a fool or someone who talks about things he does not know about.

 

 

Where is it you want a live axle to out perform IRS? Has the IRS not been fully optimized by those manufactures using it? IRS has its faults, and unless tuned appropriately it is not automatic improvement over a live axle. Generally speaking, yes, an IRS is an improvement over a live axle in both ride and handling. However, I seem to recall Mustangs and it's live axle handing BMW's and Porsche's their lunch on a regular basis in the Grand Am Continental Tire Series, and the courses they run are far from perfectly smooth.

 

My point being, it's not so much about which design is better as it is which design is better utilized for given goal/target. When the '15 arrives with it's IRS it's not going suddenly make the S197 look like a buckboard. And once the new plateform has had a chance to mature, it's not going to be a revalutionaly improvement over the S197. It's handling may become more predictable, more compliant, but it will not be significantly quicker on a track simply because it has IRS.

[svt13]

Where is it you want a live axle to out perform IRS? Has the IRS not been fully optimized by those manufactures using it? IRS has its faults, and unless tuned appropriately it is not automatic improvement over a live axle. Generally speaking, yes, an IRS is an improvement over a live axle in both ride and handling. However, I seem to recall Mustangs and it's live axle handing BMW's and Porsche's their lunch on a regular basis in the Grand Am Continental Tire Series, and the courses they run are far from perfectly smooth.

 

 

Maybe they have awesome mods like griggs suspensions? lol

[EL SHELBY]

Maybe they have awesome mods like griggs suspensions? lol

 

 

The set-up used is not nearly as modified as you might think.

[patrickshelby]

Where is it you want a live axle to out perform IRS? Has the IRS not been fully optimized by those manufactures using it? IRS has its faults, and unless tuned appropriately it is not automatic improvement over a live axle. Generally speaking, yes, an IRS is an improvement over a live axle in both ride and handling. However, I seem to recall Mustangs and it's live axle handing BMW's and Porsche's their lunch on a regular basis in the Grand Am Continental Tire Series, and the courses they run are far from perfectly smooth.

 

My point being, it's not so much about which design is better as it is which design is better utilized for given goal/target. When the '15 arrives with it's IRS it's not going suddenly make the S197 look like a buckboard. And once the new plateform has had a chance to mature, it's not going to be a revalutionaly improvement over the S197. It's handling may become more predictable, more compliant, but it will not be significantly quicker on a track simply because it has IRS.

 

 

You are partly right (IMO of course).

In the Gran Am Serie the Mustangs made up for their "old" chassis with raw power!

You could also ask yourself this question: Why is the Mustang the only current sports car with a live axle on earth? If it's that good...

I agree the next generation will not outdate the S197...UNLESS - it's lightweight - as powerful as current models - equipped with an IRS - and equipped with good brakes (you can have real rear calipers once you abandon the live axle and it's wandering axles).

[svtkeith]

I found my 04 Termi was more planted at high speeds than my 07 GT500 was..Now did they update ( tune ) the 13 GT500's

 

suspention over the 07's!! is the question..most people will never be able to tell the diff anyway..only the hard core road race guys

 

maybe.

[EL SHELBY]

You are partly right (IMO of course). In the Gran Am Serie the Mustangs made up for their "old" chassis with raw power! You could also ask yourself this question: Why is the Mustang the only current sports car with a live axle on earth? If it's that good... I agree the next generation will not outdate the S197...UNLESS - it's lightweight - as powerful as current models - equipped with an IRS - and equipped with good brakes (you can have real rear calipers once you abandon the live axle and it's wandering axles).

 

 

Actually, Grand Am puts a hell of a lot of effort in making sure the GS cars are very evenly matched. Power and weight restrictors are placed on nearly all cars and vary from car to car track to track. The BMW's are limited between 375 and 425 (per Turner Racing) compared to the BOSS 302R which peaks as 420 (per Roush). Most importantly, all cars are required to use OE suspension hook-up points with only minor changes in components.

 

As for the rear brakes, as long as the Mustang remains nose heavy with the engine on top of the front wheels bigger/stronger brakes on the rear are pointless, no matter the suspension set-up.

[svt13]

I found my 04 Termi was more planted at high speeds than my 07 GT500 was..Now did they update ( tune ) the 13 GT500's

 

suspention over the 07's!! is the question..most people will never be able to tell the diff anyway..only the hard core road race guys

 

maybe.

 

I can tell you the 13 is completely and utterly stable at high speeds. It doesn't vibrate it doesn't shake nothing.

[svt13]

You are partly right (IMO of course).

In the Gran Am Serie the Mustangs made up for their "old" chassis with raw power!

You could also ask yourself this question: Why is the Mustang the only current sports car with a live axle on earth? If it's that good...

I agree the next generation will not outdate the S197...UNLESS - it's lightweight - as powerful as current models - equipped with an IRS - and equipped with good brakes (you can have real rear calipers once you abandon the live axle and it's wandering axles).

 

That is a very good question. Why is the mustang the only sports car with a live axle? Serious question. I understand having it up to say 2009. But with the redesign in 2010 why did they keep it?

 

And the LRA doesn't keep the mustang from having rear calipers. There are plenty of mustangs with 4 piston rears.

[Snoopy49]

I read somewhere that Ford said that IRS would add $5000 to the sticker. The car's price increased $5000 from the 2012MY. The GT500 is already priced almost $6000 more than a comparably equipped 2012 Camaro. Add another $5000 to the price of the GT500 and that would make the GT500 almost $11000 more than the Camaro that has the IRS as standard equipment and you still won't have the Camaros advanced ride control.

I think for the money Ford did an excellent job with the constraints they were working under. They will never be able to make a car that will make everyone happy.

The local Chevy dealer had a ZL1 for sale at sticker. I went down and checked it out and decided the car was not for me. It had nothing to do with magazine write ups.There were just things that I couldn't live with, I hate the smiley face grill and although the car was comfortable to sit in, the visibility sucked. Visibility was the reason I didn't buy a convertible GT500. The thought of stepping out into my garage and seeing that smiley face grill turned my stomach. I want a muscle car that looks mean not one that looks like it was modeled after one of the cars in the Cars cartoon movie.

The only problem I have with the GT500 is having to wait to get it, but if waiting is what it takes, wait I will.

[patrickshelby]

That is a very good question. Why is the mustang the only sports car with a live axle? Serious question. I understand having it up to say 2009. But with the redesign in 2010 why did they keep it?

Cost! It's the same car or chassis (platform - S197) from 2005 to 2013 (I am not talking about engine / equipment / interior / body parts / etc...which evolved quite a bit on the same uni-body!).

And the LRA doesn't keep the mustang from having rear calipers. There are plenty of mustangs with 4 piston rears.

 

True, but unless the live axle is converted to a C-clip eliminator kit, the end play of the axles (the clearance of the C-clip in the axle groove), will push the pistons in the calipers (fixed calipers, if two or more opposed pistons...of course) you will have some "dead travel" to compensate when braking. That is less efficient than with an IRS which has MUCH less end play (only the bearing's) and which leaves the calipers alone (only the run-out of the rotors separates the pads from the rotor when brakes are released - like on the frt. of a Mustang).

That is why Ford kept a rear floating caliper, which centers itself on the rotor at all time and slides instead of having its piston pushed back in a bit when the axle is moving aside (When the car is experiencing the lateral forces generated by turns).

[svt13]

I read somewhere that Ford said that IRS would add $5000 to the sticker. The car's price increased $5000 from the 2012MY. The GT500 is already priced almost $6000 more than a comparably equipped 2012 Camaro. Add another $5000 to the price of the GT500 and that would make the GT500 almost $11000 more than the Camaro that has the IRS as standard equipment and you still won't have the Camaros advanced ride control.

I think for the money Ford did an excellent job with the constraints they were working under. They will never be able to make a car that will make everyone happy.

The local Chevy dealer had a ZL1 for sale at sticker. I went down and checked it out and decided the car was not for me. It had nothing to do with magazine write ups.There were just things that I couldn't live with, I hate the smiley face grill and although the car was comfortable to sit in, the visibility sucked. Visibility was the reason I didn't buy a convertible GT500. The thought of stepping out into my garage and seeing that smiley face grill turned my stomach. I want a muscle car that looks mean not one that looks like it was modeled after one of the cars in the Cars cartoon movie.

The only problem I have with the GT500 is having to wait to get it, but if waiting is what it takes, wait I will.

 

 

The shelby is over priced. Chevy made the zl1 with 10x more tech and did it for cheaper. Its unexcusable that Ford did it the cheaper traditionally way but then charge more. They are simply taking advantage of the current shelby crowd. The added hp was to attract new people. What they did by no standard justified a 5k increase. If they added 4 piston rears, electronic adjustable height and constantly adjustting shocks, and IRS then 5-7k would be 100% wortth it. Oh and new control arms not the same bullshit from 2010. I don't see any difference in the new suspension. I think they were full of it. The front and rear control arms are the EXACT same. The only difference is the shocks, and I believe sway bars and springs. I hardly would call that a complete redesign to justify 5k increase. We essentially paid 5k for 100hp. I would say it was worth it if the electronic shocks were standard but they aren't.

[twobjshelbys]

The shelby is over priced. Chevy made the zl1 with 10x more tech and did it for cheaper. Its unexcusable that Ford did it the cheaper traditionally way but then charge more. They are simply taking advantage of the current shelby crowd. The added hp was to attract new people. What they did by no standard justified a 5k increase. If they added 4 piston rears, electronic adjustable height and constantly adjustting shocks, and IRS then 5-7k would be 100% wortth it. Oh and new control arms not the same bullshit from 2010. I don't see any difference in the new suspension. I think they were full of it. The front and rear control arms are the EXACT same. The only difference is the shocks, and I believe sway bars and springs. I hardly would call that a complete redesign to justify 5k increase. We essentially paid 5k for 100hp. I would say it was worth it if the electronic shocks were standard but they aren't.

 

 

So I'm curious. If you don't like Ford or the Shelby why do you continue to come here?

 

Someone had to ask.

 

Didn't you buy one?

[twobjshelbys]

... I hate the smiley face grill ...

 

 

From the very first day I said it looked like the grin of the Cheshire Cat from Alice in Wonderland.

 

 

Or maybe this one

 

[Snoopy49]

My thoughts exactly. The first one not the second. The second one looks a little creepy, I might have gone with that one, if the you could see out of the car.

[twobjshelbys]

My thoughts exactly. The first one not the second. The second one looks a little creepy, I might have gone with that one, if the you could see out of the car.

 

 

Yeah, I was really thinking #1 too, but the #2 one was evil. But the Camaro isn't evil it's just goofy.

[svttim]

 

 

Maybe they have awesome mods like griggs suspensions? lol

 

 

Griggs this, Griggs that. No, they are not allowed major changes. On the other hand, the bimmers are allowed a lot of leeway to make their IRS work. So much for superior.

[svttim]

 

 

The shelby is over priced. Chevy made the zl1 with 10x more tech and did it for cheaper. Its unexcusable that Ford did it the cheaper traditionally way but then charge more. They are simply taking advantage of the current shelby crowd. The added hp was to attract new people. What they did by no standard justified a 5k increase. If they added 4 piston rears, electronic adjustable height and constantly adjustting shocks, and IRS then 5-7k would be 100% wortth it. Oh and new control arms not the same bullshit from 2010. I don't see any difference in the new suspension. I think they were full of it. The front and rear control arms are the EXACT same. The only difference is the shocks, and I believe sway bars and springs. I hardly would call that a complete redesign to justify 5k increase. We essentially paid 5k for 100hp. I would say it was worth it if the electronic shocks were standard but they aren't.

 

 

Go buy a ZL1 then.

 

Everybody is forgetting the weight increase with IRS

[Captain Beyond]

The shelby is over priced. Chevy made the zl1 with 10x more tech and did it for cheaper. Its unexcusable that Ford did it the cheaper traditionally way but then charge more. They are simply taking advantage of the current shelby crowd. The added hp was to attract new people. What they did by no standard justified a 5k increase. If they added 4 piston rears, electronic adjustable height and constantly adjustting shocks, and IRS then 5-7k would be 100% wortth it. Oh and new control arms not the same bullshit from 2010. I don't see any difference in the new suspension. I think they were full of it. The front and rear control arms are the EXACT same. The only difference is the shocks, and I believe sway bars and springs. I hardly would call that a complete redesign to justify 5k increase. We essentially paid 5k for 100hp. I would say it was worth it if the electronic shocks were standard but they aren't.

 

 

 

You're so right, the Shelby is a POS. You should just cut your losses now and sell it to me for $10K.

That is if you indeed own one.

[Snoopy49]

I hate to regurgitate this post, but has anyone anywhere been able to hit 200+ mph in a stock (showroom) Shelby GT500?

[662HP631TQ]

I hate to regurgitate this post, but has anyone anywhere been able to hit 200+ mph in a stock (showroom) Shelby GT500?

 

 

Who cares? Really? It hit 196, That is a very lonely place to be as it is, as not a lot of cars can do that ESPECIALLY Domestic. 99% of us will never go that fast. Who cares about bragging rights either LOL!

What is funny is my neighbor has a 2010 SS Camaro and he is going to hate me very soon LOL! Nah, but in all seriousness, come on man, a tune and WHOALA! You have yourself probably a 205MPH car!

 

Enjoy it for what it is, and don't concern yourself with any of the hype! It is the bastard child of hell, and it tears up concrete wherever it goes!

[svt13]

 

You're so right, the Shelby is a POS. You should just cut your losses now and sell it to me for $10K.

That is if you indeed own one.

 

 

Lol. Don't act like a butt hurt fanboy. I love my car. Doesn't mean I can't say its not worth the price I paid when another company did close to the same for a cheaper price. But thats ok. A 458 italia or gallardo aren't worth 300k either. The only car REALLY worth every penny you pay for is maybe MAYBE the GTR. The shelby is PRETTY damn close but still 5k over priced isn't bad. But Ford will change this with the new redesign. I just want this one because I'm pretty sure the new one is going to look like shit. Plus according to the spy shots they are using the same body but with an IRS. If thats the case I will swapping my rear for the new IRS one.

[662HP631TQ]

you do know that the ZL1 borrows a whole lot from big brother right? The GT500 borrows a few parts, but nowhere near as much as the ZL1. The GT isn't even sold anymore, so the Shelby has no big brother. I would say that you made a mistake if you think you aren'y getting the value here where you would have with the ZL1. They say a fool and his money are soon parted. Not saying you are a fool, but if you think better value is had from the ZL1, form an economic standpoint and that is your argument, you are better off buying a ZL1. I actually like the ZL1, and almost bought one, but something about Ford, Shelby, the legacy and 663 HP drew me in. I think Ford did a fine job. If you oversimplify by saying "We paid a $5,000.00 premium for 112 HP" then you are sadly misinformed. This car had a lot of R&D put into it. 196MPH better than ZL1, Quarter Mile, Better than ZL1, 662HP, Better than ZL1, 631 FT LBS TQ, Better than ZL1, Estimated 24/18 MPG, Better than ZL1. Plus YES they are asking for more money for add on packaged, but they are available, another tax from R&D

The car is worth it. The value is there. You just might not see it because your are holding on to the whole suspension thing. Come on man forget about that. It is a marvel in Autoracing what Chevrolet has done with that Magnetic Suspension, but it is theirs and they have had it for quite some time. Maybe Ford was behind the curve, and has something WAY better than that waiting in the wings.

 

One final point. There is a MAJOR point of technology used in the Shelby we often forget about. Remember when the made the engine from a 5.4 to a 5.8? Yes that is right, Ford owns the that Archweld technology they used (or co-owns maybe) to make improvements on the motor.

 

All I have to say is instead of saying the ZL1 is more of a value, look hard past "just suspension" and you'll find your car has a lot more value than meets the eye. Ford did a fine job and the value is there, just really focus on it, and start to smile, while writing this....I did!

 

-Luis