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2012 GT500 vs 2012 Camaro Zl1


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Paper comparison of 2012 GT 500 and Camaro Zl1 from Chevrolet Motors:

 

The Mustang Shelby GT500 comes close with its 550 horsepower, but it just can't catch up to the 580 horsepower performance of ZL1. And again on torque, the 510 lb.-ft. of torque on GT500 can't touch the 556 lb.-ft. on ZL1. Engineering technology is where ZL1 really tops out. While GT500 has a traditional one-piece, solid axle, ZL1 features an independent rear suspension that's free to pivot independently, vastly improving handling and cornering on rough surfaces. As far as suspension, GT500 again goes traditional, with hydraulic, gas-powered shocks, a stark contrast to the Gen-3 Magnetic Ride shocks on ZL1. Oh, and don't look for an available automatic transmission on the Shelby GT500. It doesn't exist.”

Source:

http://www.chevrolet...ive-comparison/

 

My 2012 GT500 is bone stock at this point with under 700 miles on it. I was wondering what are the minimum modifications that I would need to undertake to boost horsepower and/or handling to stay a few gallops ahead of the stock 2012 Zl1 Camaro on the street. I am sure others are thinking of this also ... can be an interesting discussion.

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Ehh....taking the word of Chevy on their product over Ford is like believing some Dealer when he tells you buying your GT500 is an investment. That isn't a paper comparison that is a marketing page. The extra horsepower they dumped into the 2012 is lost on the 4000lb+ curb weight of that pig.

 

If you want to stay a few gallops ahead of a ZL1 make sure your tires are warmer and thus sticker before you line up, that's and being the better driver is going to likely have far more effect than juicing your car up for a match up that is likely never going to happen. I haven't ever seen a ZL1 outside of carshow.

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I have to agree, warm tires, a better tire, and hopefully a positive shift from 1st to 2nd would be my biggest concerns. I havent really messed with but I wonder if turning off all driver assist would help as well. The only other thing I would consider is a pulley and tune. From what I have read it really wakes the car up, is really a pretty cheap upgrade. Luckly for us there are shop near by that can do the tune. User Seer on some other forums was at the car cruise in the other week with us and he has it done already. He also is getting the 1st-2nd grind fixed as I type this.

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The Mustang Shelby GT500 comes close with its 550 horsepower, but it just can't catch up to the 580 horsepower performance of ZL1. And again on torque, the 510 lb.-ft. of torque on GT500 can't touch the 556 lb.-ft. on ZL1. Engineering technology is where ZL1 really tops out. While GT500 has a traditional one-piece, solid axle, ZL1 features an independent rear suspension that's free to pivot independently, vastly improving handling and cornering on rough surfaces. As far as suspension, GT500 again goes traditional, with hydraulic, gas-powered shocks, a stark contrast to the Gen-3 Magnetic Ride shocks on ZL1. Oh, and don't look for an available automatic transmission on the Shelby GT500 any car meant to be driven by skilled drivers. It doesn't exist.”

 

Fixed that for them. Also, SHELBY. Yes Corvettes are nice, and the ZL1 is a very high-powered overweight pig (hush now...the GT500 is "big boned"), and I actually wouldn't mind owning a nice BMW some day. But, SHELBY. Ain't just another Ford.

 

If it's the numbers game you want to win, a pulley & tune (link goes to VMP kit) will probably get you up around 600-620 crank HP and 550 RWHP or so. That'll help with the 30-100MPH roll-ons, but for standing-start drags, it's all about getting power to the pavement and not melting the rubber. Tires, heat, skill. I have 1 out of 3 of those, but only during the summer. :hysterical:

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Put another way, which of these two is more likely to strike fear into the guy sitting at the light next to you? And which one invokes thoughts of ample cupholders and a rear-seat DVD player for the kids?

chevrolet-emblem.pngC9OB-6542508-A.jpg

 

 

Edit: in case it's not obvious - I'm being intentionally over-the-top here. I'm keen to see an actual head-to-head on a track.

Edited by Boidster
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I do not think he is asking a question that is not valid, with equal drivers the ZL1 surpasses the GT500 IMO, now when the 2013 comes out that may change, but for now although I am a Ford guy the ZL1 performance wise is superior.

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Paper comparison of 2012 GT 500 and Camaro Zl1 from Chevrolet Motors:

 

The Mustang Shelby GT500 comes close with its 550 horsepower, but it just can't catch up to the 580 horsepower performance of ZL1. And again on torque, the 510 lb.-ft. of torque on GT500 can't touch the 556 lb.-ft. on ZL1. Engineering technology is where ZL1 really tops out. While GT500 has a traditional one-piece, solid axle, ZL1 features an independent rear suspension that's free to pivot independently, vastly improving handling and cornering on rough surfaces. As far as suspension, GT500 again goes traditional, with hydraulic, gas-powered shocks, a stark contrast to the Gen-3 Magnetic Ride shocks on ZL1. Oh, and don't look for an available automatic transmission on the Shelby GT500. It doesn't exist.”

Source:

http://www.chevrolet...ive-comparison/

 

My 2012 GT500 is bone stock at this point with under 700 miles on it. I was wondering what are the minimum modifications that I would need to undertake to boost horsepower and/or handling to stay a few gallops ahead of the stock 2012 Zl1 Camaro on the street. I am sure others are thinking of this also ... can be an interesting discussion.

 

Brenspeed claims to add 100HP w/pulley, idler pulley, spark plugs, C&L intake, and SCT tune for $1100. I tried to copy and paste the info here for ease but all buttons have been disabled on their website. Something odd about a company that does that.

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Well I haven't seen a road test on a 2012 GT-500 but comparing a 2011 GT-500 which it pretty similar to the '12 GT-500 looks to me like in performance and handling it's pretty much a driver's race. Of course the 2013 Shelby will blow it away. Basically Chevy Has produced a car that is nearly equaled performance of a 2011/12 GT-500.

 

I think it's ridiculous that all the magazines keep comparing the Boss 302 to the new ZL1 when the GT-500 is the more natural equal as far performance and price.

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I was in brain-ford-marketing-hell when they announced the 2013 because of the 100+ more HP than my 2011 GT500 convertible. I wanted one so bad that I nearly plopped down the $25k difference that they wanted because my 2011 had 'depreciated', but came to my senses when the price from 2012 to 2013 went up by over $10k and finding out that they won't put the track pack on a Vert. That being said.........................and the fear of a ZL1 Camaro ever pulling up beside me..........................I simply bought the TVS blower and inlet that VMP sells and installed it on the 2011. Brand new you will spend around $4k for that upgrade.

 

The results are simple. You will get a car with more HP and Torque than the stock 2013 GT500 (we all know that they won't stay stock), but you'll have 600 RWHP and around 590 Torque to play with. Those numbers given approximately 17% driveline loss show a realistic 725 Crank HP. That is way more than enough to beat a ZL1 from a punch. I'm now even wanting to switch the 3.73's out of the back to the 3.31's of the 2013. It's easy to figure where Ford is estimating the top speed of the car in 5th gear that it takes the lower numerically gears to accomplish that. In theory, the 3.73's would hit 180mph at 6300 rpm where the 3.31's would require about 5500 rpm.

 

Anyway............I'm rambling. When I got the 2011 brand new with the 550 HP I thought it was blazingly fast.............and it is..............you have to be careful where you exercise that much power. My stock dyno reading was 472 at the rear wheels.................now with the TVS it is 601. I have to get used to this power now and it might take a while.

 

Be careful out there. We all like to go fast and play hard, but it sucks to land yourself in the hospital and your car behind a tow-truck.

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The Boss is faster than the 2011 GT500 , that's why they compare them. Now the 2013 GT500 will give the ZL1 a run, but they are not out yet.

 

And your source for this claim???

 

Not so according to this Mustang shootout between a 2011 Shelby GT500 SVTPP and a 2012 Boss 302 Laguna Seca conducted on the same track, on the same day, by the same pro driver...

 

 

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And your source for this claim???

 

Not so according to this Mustang shootout between a 2011 Shelby GT500 SVTPP and a 2012 Boss 302 Laguna Seca conducted on the same track, on the same day, by the same pro driver...

 

 

Oh crap here we go again I am just quoting the mags. I just was saying why the mags were not using the current GT500. geeze. Lets talk about the ZL1.and the new GT500 coming out.
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Oh crap here we go again I am just quoting the mags. I just was saying why the mags were not using the current GT500. geeze. Lets talk about the ZL1.and the new GT500 coming out.

 

 

What I was saying was .... Chevy doesn't have anything to compare to a 2012 Boss 302, not to take anything away from the Boss 302. The new Boss 302 is a GREAT car!!! But for the total cost and factory horsepower, the 2012 GT-500 is more in the same class as the ZL1. When you consider the lower cost and horsepower of a Boss 302 compared to the ZL1, it almost as though they are trying to stack the deck, but the the Boss 302 is so good and close it ain't working. But they need to compare the ZL1 to a GT-500. When Chevy builts a Z-28, then they will have something closer to the Boss 302's class like in 1969.

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First I have to get the 1st to 2nd grind fixed in my POS 2012. Dealer has no clue but I just may trade it this fall or winter for the new big boy on the planet when it is released!! Will just leave it the way it is and let it sit in the garage most likely.

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And your source for this claim???

 

Well, apparently Motortrend puts the 302 0.1 second faster than the GT500 0-60, and it ran 1:40 laps at Mazda Laguna Seca Raceway, vs. 1:44 for the GT500. But then the 302 is really a race car that is nominally street legal. GT500 is more old-school street/drag muscle, IMO, not to take anything away from its road track ability, especially after modification.

 

Isn't heat soak the real limiter for the GT500 in stock form? Unless Chevy has put a beefy intercooling system into the ZL1, along the lines of all the aftermarket systems people put into their racing GT500s, I'd think it would suffer the same problem and the 302 would be a match for it on a road course, in spite of the ZL1's significant HP advantage (when cool). Effectively putting the blower out of commission after 2 laps would cut significantly into the ZL1s competitiveness, no?

 

Show me that vid: ZL1 vs. 302 LS vs. GT500, 10 laps on a road course. Then throw a GT500 with dual-fan HE, super-size tank, ice, ported blower, etc. etc. into the mix. Somebody make it happen! :lol:

Edited by Boidster
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Well, apparently Motortrend puts the 302 0.1 second faster than the GT500 0-60, and it ran 1:40 laps at Mazda Laguna Seca Raceway, vs. 1:44 for the GT500. But then the 302 is really a race car that is nominally street legal. GT500 is more old-school street/drag muscle, IMO, not to take anything away from its road track ability, especially after modification.

 

Isn't heat soak the real limiter for the GT500 in stock form? Unless Chevy has put a beefy intercooling system into the ZL1, along the lines of all the aftermarket systems people put into their racing GT500s, I'd think it would suffer the same problem and the 302 would be a match for it on a road course, in spite of the ZL1's significant HP advantage (when cool). Effectively putting the blower out of commission after 2 laps would cut significantly into the ZL1s competitiveness, no?

 

Show me that vid: ZL1 vs. 302 LS vs. GT500, 10 laps on a road course. Then throw a GT500 with dual-fan HE, super-size tank, ice, ported blower, etc. etc. into the mix. Somebody make it happen! :lol:

Great point , remember they race the Boss on sunday ( sometimes sat ) and sell on monday. Full season no engine failures in the hot summer months. This year Roush has a good chance of taking it all in the continental race program.
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Tell me about it! A friend had his in the dealership for a tranny "fix". He called today and they haven't even opened it up yet. He is going the WOT box route. If it works thats the way I am going to fix the 1-2 issue.

 

 

First I have to get the 1st to 2nd grind fixed in my POS 2012. Dealer has no clue but I just may trade it this fall or winter for the new big boy on the planet when it is released!! Will just leave it the way it is and let it sit in the garage most likely.

Edited by Ecrissman
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And your source for this claim???

 

Not so according to this Mustang shootout between a 2011 Shelby GT500 SVTPP and a 2012 Boss 302 Laguna Seca conducted on the same track, on the same day, by the same pro driver...

 

 

Well, apparently Motortrend puts the 302 0.1 second faster than the GT500 0-60, and it ran 1:40 laps at Mazda Laguna Seca Raceway, vs. 1:44 for the GT500. But then the 302 is really a race car that is nominally street legal. GT500 is more old-school street/drag muscle, IMO, not to take anything away from its road track ability, especially after modification.

 

Isn't heat soak the real limiter for the GT500 in stock form? Unless Chevy has put a beefy intercooling system into the ZL1, along the lines of all the aftermarket systems people put into their racing GT500s, I'd think it would suffer the same problem and the 302 would be a match for it on a road course, in spite of the ZL1's significant HP advantage (when cool). Effectively putting the blower out of commission after 2 laps would cut significantly into the ZL1s competitiveness, no?

 

Show me that vid: ZL1 vs. 302 LS vs. GT500, 10 laps on a road course. Then throw a GT500 with dual-fan HE, super-size tank, ice, ported blower, etc. etc. into the mix. Somebody make it happen! :lol:

 

 

You've got to be kidding. Did you read the entire TS thread you quote above?

 

The test results you reference for each vehicle were established on different tracks, and/or on different days, and/or with different drivers... How accurate of a comparison is that???

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I'm not. I did. Not a direct comparison, just food for thought.

 

I didn't mean to inflame anyone's passions. I just remembered seeing that old thread before. If you believe the GT500 is a faster track car than the 302, I'm not going to try to change your mind. We can agree to disagree and continue as brothers in Shelby. Peace.

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Tell me about it! A friend had his in the dealership for a tranny "fix". He called today and they haven't even opened it up yet. He is going the WOT box route. If it works thats the way I am going to fix the 1-2 issue.

 

 

Pardon my ignorance but what is "the WOT box route". Interested in hearing about the fix when you have more info.

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I'm not. I did. Not a direct comparison, just food for thought.

 

I didn't mean to inflame anyone's passions. I just remembered seeing that old thread before. If you believe the GT500 is a faster track car than the 302, I'm not going to try to change your mind. We can agree to disagree and continue as brothers in Shelby. Peace.

 

 

Your both right. As I have said before, besides driver talent, track choice is huge. Go to Road America or VIR with the two cars, Boss looses both. Shorter tracks, the pendulum swings the other way. I believe the mags dont want to test the GT500 against the ZL1, may embarass Chevy

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Your both right. As I have said before, besides driver talent, track choice is huge. Go to Road America or VIR with the two cars, Boss looses both. Shorter tracks, the pendulum swings the other way. I believe the mags dont want to test the GT500 against the ZL1, may embarass Chevy

 

 

Times two, Buddy .... Times two. :salute:

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You guys are drinking the cool-aid, the ZL-1 is a better overall performer than the GT500 or Boss 302, I do not see how you can even argue otherwise. Now the 2013 may change that, but we will not know that until it is available.

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You guys are drinking the cool-aid, the ZL-1 is a better overall performer than the GT500 or Boss 302, I do not see how you can even argue otherwise. Now the 2013 may change that, but we will not know that until it is available.

 

carnut12,

 

No Kool-Aid for me.

 

Fact, the 2011/12 GT500 w/SVTPP runs a faster lap (even on a short track like the video I posted above) than a 2012 Boss 302 LS (stock for stock, on the same track, same day, same driver). Another fact, on a longer track (as svttim points out) the spread widens between the Shelby and Boss. Does the Shelby lap the track with the same finesse the Boss does? NO! That's because it wasn't designed to! The Shelby is a brute force machine. And from a marketing and pricing standpoint, the Shelby should be slightly faster.

 

The SC'd ZL1 is also a brute force machine (and a good one), but GM dumped a lot of available (Corvette and CTS-V) hi-tech into their new halo Camaro which makes it a formidable track car too (see video below). From a horsepower, performance and price perspective, the ZL1 matches up with the 2012 Shelby SVTPP. The elephant in the forum is why didn't GM choose to match them up on Head 2 Head, but instead chose to run against the lower powered Boss 302 LS? We'll never know, but it is suspect... and that's what draws their credibility into question.

 

No matter. The 2013 Shelby SVTPP w/Track Pack is going to spank the ZL1 on the drag strip or road track, and at that point, this discussion of the Boss and ZL1 will be history...

 

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You guys are drinking the cool-aid, the ZL-1 is a better overall performer than the GT500 or Boss 302, I do not see how you can even argue otherwise. Now the 2013 may change that, but we will not know that until it is available.

 

 

If you would go back and look at the Aug 2010 issue of Car and Driver road test of a 2011 Shelby GT-500 and then compare the numbers in the March 2012 Issue of Car and Driver for the road test of the 2012 Camaro ZL1 you'd see too.

 

0-60 = 4.1 for both cars

SS1/4 = 12.4 @ 117 (Shelby) vs 12.3@ 119 (ZL1)

Braking 70-0 = 151 ft (Shelby) vs 165 ft (ZL1)

Handling = 1.0 G (Shelby) vs .98 (ZL1)

 

Looks like a driver's race to me .... I'll have another kool-aid, Please.

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A WOT box temporarily cuts the ignition the milisecond the clutch is depressed. This allows the engine rpm to slow just enough to engage the next gear. It also has launch control feature. I have been reading about them on some other shelby forums and it seems people have had great success. The posted improved e.t's are unbelievable. With the box installed you can keep the throttle wide open while shifting. SEER took his car from the ford dealership because like others they did nothing to fix the car. I will let you know when he lets me know how the WOT box worked out, I believe he is doing the upgrade while he is installing a whipple s/c. Here is a little cut and paste about the WOT box, I am out of town and did this with my DROID so not sure hows it going to look. A google search of shelby gt500+WOT box will keep you reading for hours.

The WOT Box adds two major features to any car. They are No-lift shifting and 2-step launch control. Both of these features are completely user-programmable using the WOT Box Graphical User Interface.

 

The No-Lift Shift feature makes no-lift shifting easy by cutting your engine's ignition for a very short period while you no-lift shift. No-lift shifting is keeping the gas down through the shifft. The ignition cut allows the synchros in your transmission to mesh easily, reducing the chance of missing a gear and damaging your transmission. Keeping your foot down through the shift also allows you to hold boost through the shift, thereby significantly improving your E.T.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pardon my ignorance but what is "the WOT box route". Interested in hearing about the fix when you have more info.

 

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