Sounding Off on Shelby GT500

[APPLESREDGT500]

To: 1970boss302.... Go Piss and Moan somewhere else! This site is used by a lot of GT500 fans. Some who own the car (like me), some who don't. Some paid MSRP, some more. Why the hell do you care, its our money.

 

 

He has'nt posted since Sat., I think someone hurt his feelings It's O.K. to come out now, really............he's not answering, :ninja:

[LuckySnake]

Then you're a hypocrit just like Al Gore and John Edwards and all the other rich liberals who go around preaching global warming and then taking private jets around the country.

 

Sell your Shelby and get a Prius.

I drive a Corrola so I can afford to do mods to my GT500

[CobraCrazy]

OK, I have an order placed for two Toyota Prius's.

 

Please either destroy your GT500, or sell it to someone that will never drive it.

 

Captain Planet demands this of you!

 

GO PLANET!!!

 

DC,

Your "either or response" is the product of a shallow mind; it is possible to be concerned about the state of our planet and still love cars. And I will admit to a bit of hypocracy in owning my 500hp Shelby, but I try to make up for it in other ways (even simple things like turning off unused lights, recycling, etc). And I'm confused as to why there is such anti-Gore hysteria among the red-necks, especially when so many support our idiot president, but I think this forum should be free of our politics so that's all I'm going to say (except that I think your vehicle of choice should be an 84 camaro with at least one primered-fender.)

[jaaman]

Then you're a hypocrit just like Al Gore and John Edwards and all the other rich liberals who go around preaching global warming and then taking private jets around the country.

 

Sell your Shelby and get a Prius.

 

 

Not me, I will never sell my GT500. I am Not a Hyprocrit nor am I a Liberal. I am a true Car Dude. However I am concerned on what is happening to the Polar Ice Caps and the Polar Bears. say what you want. call me what you want. The fact is that this is what Sicentist from Yale and Havard are telling us. Yes Harvard and Yale, two of the best schools in the world. So who are you going to beleive, the Bush Chroni's over on fox news or the Educated Scientist ?

[Dropping__Chronic]

Fox News at it's best.

 

I'm curious now - how is that comment 'Foxnews' at it's best?

 

Fact - Al Gore is a figurehead for global warming

Fact - Al Gore was / is using more power per month than most regular families do all year.

 

Now that it has been exposed he is dancing around with 'carbon credits' <snicker> and claims to be installing solar panels on his giant mansion etc..

 

That's not Foxnews, that's COMMON news that was cited on CNN, Fox, and every other news outlet. It was reported because it was IRONIC and highly entertaining.

 

It'd be like Ghandi eating steak and hunting.

 

I'm of a mind that there is merit to 'global warming' but coming onto this site, talking about it and talking down to others is really funny considering what we all drive.

 

If you talk the talk, walk the walk, otherwise stfu and go sit in the corner. :banana piano:

[jaaman]

Global warming crisis. Sounds like the 70s when the world had run out of crude oil. What ever happened to that theory.

 

Maybe we should all sing along with Al, you know him, the guy who "invented" the internet.

 

No man, that was just the beginning of the Criminal activity by the big Oil Companies. Now what you are seeing is the results of their Greed.

[Dropping__Chronic]

DC,

Your "either or response" is the product of a shallow mind; it is possible to be concerned about the state of our planet and still love cars. And I will admit to a bit of hypocracy in owning my 500hp Shelby, but I try to make up for it in other ways (even simple things like turning off unused lights, recycling, etc). And I'm confused as to why there is such anti-Gore hysteria among the red-necks, especially when so many support our idiot president, but I think this forum should be free of our politics so that's all I'm going to say (except that I think your vehicle of choice should be an 84 camaro with at least one primered-fender.)

 

I'm astounded at your powers of devination - I mean, without me saying anything other than laughing at someone with a 500HP car talking about saving the planet, you were able to not only determine my political affiliation, but ultimate car choice!

 

Can you use your powers to do one more thing?

 

Remove your head from you ass before you make yourself look like an even bigger idiot.

 

Fact -

 

I'm intending to vote for Barrak Obama, which is very un-mullet-like of me. Also my previous cars have been various Mustangs and Cobra's so you were wrong about my car choice / fate as well. And I was born in South Africa and moved to Colorado, and am now in Houston. So I'm not sure where the red-neck comment came from. I guess I can only assume that when you were called out for being a hypocritical tool that you had to reach back and start the personal insults.

 

Personal insult = lack of any ability to argue effectively.

 

Too funny.

 

P.S. 4th grade called, it wants it's sorry attempt at an insult back. What's next, mommy jokes?

[Dropping__Chronic]

Not me, I will never sell my GT500. I am Not a Hyprocrit nor am I a Liberal. I am a true Car Dude. However I am concerned on what is happening to the Polar Ice Caps and the Polar Bears. say what you want. call me what you want. The fact is that this is what Sicentst from Yale and Havard are telling us. Yes Harvard and Yale, two of the best schools in the world. So who are you going to beleive, the Bush Chroni's over on fox news or the Educated Scientst ?

 

I believe there is an impact on the environment due to humans, that's just a logical fact.

 

What I am still indecisive about is what group of scientists to believe. I have watched 'An Inconvenient Truth' and found it very compelling, but then you have the BBC release it's argument piece with just as many well regarded scientists speaking the exact opposit way.

 

Scientists and doctors and any other skilled professional will always be called on for this agenda or that. To believe that agenda simply because Harvaard or Yale is put up as proof of credibility is just ignorant.

 

I personally think somewhere in the middle is the best explanation of what we are potentially facing. The problem with getting the true message out is the age old problem of 'Far right vs. Far left'. Far left would have you believe polar bears are all dying from swimming around to find food, the far right would have you believe the polar bears are swimming around because they like it and want to die at sea. Somewhere in the middle is the right answer, but I haven't seen it / believed it yet.

 

Too funny how you people get your hackles up, I mean seriously - you can't find the irony in someone on a website devoted to 500+hp cars talking about saving the environment?

 

GT500 -

 

Uses more oil than most cars

More gas than most cars

Goes through disposable parts more than most cars - tires, clutch, etc..

 

So to say you are 'doing your part' by flipping off a lightswitch here and there is just freaking hilarious.

 

<steps off soapbox>

 

-DC

[CobraCrazy]

I'm astounded at your powers of devination - I mean, without me saying anything other than laughing at someone with a 500HP car talking about saving the planet, you were able to not only determine my political affiliation, but ultimate car choice!

 

Can you use your powers to do one more thing?

 

Remove your head from you ass before you make yourself look like an even bigger idiot.

 

Fact -

 

I'm intending to vote for Barrak Obama, which is very un-mullet-like of me. Also my previous cars have been various Mustangs and Cobra's so you were wrong about my car choice / fate as well. And I was born in South Africa and moved to Colorado, and am now in Houston. So I'm not sure where the red-neck comment came from. I guess I can only assume that when you were called out for being a hypocritical tool that you had to reach back and start the personal insults.

 

Personal insult = lack of any ability to argue effectively.

 

Too funny.

 

P.S. 4th grade called, it wants it's sorry attempt at an insult back. What's next, mommy jokes?

 

 

Let's see you make the following comments:

Nice choice of car. Does it run on dead baby seals and holes in the ozone when you run low on dino fuel?

 

I'm sure you are just the pinnacle of hug-a-tree village with that monster under your right foot.

 

Please either destroy your GT500, or sell it to someone that will never drive it.

 

Captain Planet™ demands this of you!

 

Remove your head from you ass before you make yourself look like an even bigger idiot.

 

and then you have a problem with my response? It seems you are the one who can dish it out, but can't take it.

[Dropping__Chronic]

Let's see you make the following comments:

Nice choice of car. Does it run on dead baby seals and holes in the ozone when you run low on dino fuel?

 

I'm sure you are just the pinnacle of hug-a-tree village with that monster under your right foot.

 

Please either destroy your GT500, or sell it to someone that will never drive it.

 

Captain Planet™ demands this of you!

 

Remove your head from you ass before you make yourself look like an even bigger idiot.

 

and then you have a problem with my response? It seems you are the one who can dish it out, but can't take it.

 

Oh I can take plenty, but my comments above were genuinely funny and meant to amuse due to their obvious absurdity. But then you jump in and start laying about you with the 'mullet this' and 'Al Gore is being attacked' and 'red-neck' that so I thought I'd go ahead and correct you.

 

Sorry I called you and others on their hypocrisy, I didn't know it would upset you so much to be called out on your blatant double standard.

 

Can I possibly sell you some carbon credits so you feel better about yourself?

 

[CobraCrazy]

Oh I can take plenty, but my comments above were genuinely funny and meant to amuse due to their obvious absurdity. But then you jump in and start laying about you with the 'mullet this' and 'Al Gore is being attacked' and 'red-neck' that so I thought I'd go ahead and correct you.

 

Sorry I called you and others on their hypocrisy, I didn't know it would upset you so much to be called out on your blatant double standard.

 

Can I possibly sell you some carbon credits so you feel better about yourself?

 

 

Aw DC,

It's becoming apparent that if someone was to place your brain on a razorblade, it would look like a BB on a six-lane highway.

[rpretzel]

OK, let's simmer down a bit guys. A spirited discussion is one thing, but we don't need to get into personal attacks.

[Dropping__Chronic]

Aw DC,

It's becoming apparent that if someone was to place your brain on a razorblade, it would look like a BB on a six-lane highway.

 

<yawn>

 

So I guess I won, thanks for playing.

[jaaman]

I'm curious now - how is that comment 'Foxnews' at it's best?

 

Fact - Al Gore is a figurehead for global warming

Fact - Al Gore was / is using more power per month than most regular families do all year.

 

Now that it has been exposed he is dancing around with 'carbon credits' <snicker> and claims to be installing solar panels on his giant mansion etc..

 

That's not Foxnews, that's COMMON news that was cited on CNN, Fox, and every other news outlet. It was reported because it was IRONIC and highly entertaining.

 

It'd be like Ghandi eating steak and hunting.

 

I'm of a mind that there is merit to 'global warming' but coming onto this site, talking about it and talking down to others is really funny considering what we all drive. If you talk the talk, walk the walk, otherwise stfu and go sit in the corner. :banana piano:

 

 

Hey I agree with you on your last Paragraph. I am not a fan of Al Gore, However he would have made a much better President then the Idiot we have now. I guess I am tired of being lied to about Wars and the price Gas and many other things and when some truth does come out look what happens. The truth teller becomes the bad guy.

I am done now. Lets talk about our Badass GT500's now.

[KCMO-GT500]

Not me, I will never sell my GT500. I am Not a Hyprocrit nor am I a Liberal. I am a true Car Dude. However I am concerned on what is happening to the Polar Ice Caps and the Polar Bears. say what you want. call me what you want. The fact is that this is what Sicentst from Yale and Havard are telling us. Yes Harvard and Yale, two of the best schools in the world. So who are you going to beleive, the Bush Chroni's over on fox news or the Educated Scientst ?

 

 

..or the MIT climate scientist who says the whole thing is overblown hype?????? Don't assume academic credentials mean truth. That is dangerous. Knowledge, honesty, thoroughness and independence yield much better answers.

 

3 issues are involved with "global warming"

 

1. Are we experiencing any variation beyond what is typical?? Based on life of planet, not just the last century or two. Think variations between ice ages, which are definitely in our past. Glaciers have been melting and the sea level increasing since the last ice age. Just a fact. Very little variation measured in the rate of melt and sea level increase over the centuries.

 

2. If so, what is the cause(s)?? Many things have been proposed. Some of the more respected scientists not linked to the established group of climatologists have made a good case for the greatest temperature impacts being from the source of energy, the sun, rather than changes on the earth. Everyone is aware that the sun's output varies, right?????

 

3. If so, what can or should be done?? ie can our efforts really make an impact?? Methane from cows has a huge affect according to the present theory of global warming, more so than cars. So why focus on cars first? Is anyone really being honest about necessary actions? or are there other agendas involved? In all honesty, when some of the global warming "scientists" are confronted directly on the issue, they acknowledge that to believe their models, you have to accept that nothing can be done at this juncture to limit the progression of warming.

 

Since the earth is not a closed system subject to experimentation, one must do their best evaluating the available data, making your best presumptions, propose a theory, and check to see if all of the data fits. The problem is now, everyone is using only the data that makes their case look good. Scientifically that is just crap. Any valid theory has to accommodate all of the data. That is why honest scientists are most knowledgeable about the data that is troubling to their theory, since that is where the adjustments need to be made. How familiar are you with the information that does not back the theory of global warming? From what I have seen, there is a lot out there. To me, that means we do not yet have the correct answer to the issues involved.

 

I am also very concerned that the same shrill group of liberal activists seems to have jumped on this issue and seemingly made it evil to bring this important topic to a true discussion of science. It is apparent that the past causes of this group dovetails well with the global warming theory, and is certainly a reason to be suspicious of motives. Most damning is that any discussion by global warming activists includes primarily a discussion of temperatures since mid 1800s and anecdotal observations. Never a full and comprehensive discussion, certainly never addressing the data that doesn't fit. It should really worry you when the liberal activists say this is a decided issue, and that to question that means you are an idiot. That is just not a true scientific process.

[jaaman]

..or the MIT climate scientist who says the whole thing is overblown hype?????? Don't assume academic credentials mean truth. That is dangerous. Knowledge, honesty, thoroughness and independence yield much better answers.

 

3 issues are involved with "global warming"

 

1. Are we experiencing any variation beyond what is typical?? Based on life of planet, not just the last century or two. Think variations between ice ages, which are definitely in our past. Glaciers have been melting and the sea level increasing since the last ice age. Just a fact. Very little variation measured in the rate of melt and sea level increase over the centuries.

 

2. If so, what is the cause(s)?? Many things have been proposed. Some of the more respected scientists not linked to the established group of climatologists have made a good case for the greatest temperature impacts being from the source of energy, the sun, rather than changes on the earth. Everyone is aware that the sun's output varies, right?????

 

3. If so, what can or should be done?? ie can our efforts really make an impact?? Methane from cows has a huge affect according to the present theory of global warming, more so than cars. So why focus on cars first? Is anyone really being honest about necessary actions? or are there other agendas involved? In all honesty, when some of the global warming "scientists" are confronted directly on the issue, they acknowledge that to believe their models, you have to accept that nothing can be done at this juncture to limit the progression of warming.

 

Since the earth is not a closed system subject to experimentation, one must do their best evaluating the available data, making your best presumptions, propose a theory, and check to see if all of the data fits. The problem is now, everyone is using only the data that makes their case look good. Scientifically that is just crap. Any valid theory has to accommodate all of the data. That is why honest scientists are most knowledgeable about the data that is troubling to their theory, since that is where the adjustments need to be made. How familiar are you with the information that does not back the theory of global warming? From what I have seen, there is a lot out there. To me, that means we do not yet have the correct answer to the issues involved.

 

I am also very concerned that the same shrill group of liberal activists seems to have jumped on this issue and seemingly made it evil to bring this important topic to a true discussion of science. It is apparent that the past causes of this group dovetails well with the global warming theory, and is certainly a reason to be suspicious of motives. Most damning is that any discussion by global warming activists includes primarily a discussion of temperatures since mid 1800s and anecdotal observations. Never a full and comprehensive discussion, certainly never addressing the data that doesn't fit. It should really worry you when the liberal activists say this is a decided issue, and that to question that means you are an idiot. That is just not a true scientific process.

 

Cant we all just get along.

[KCMO-GT500]

Cant we all just get along.

 

 

..just leave my gas guzzling piggy alone

 

 

actually, if you go the the EPA website, the shelby has a pollution impact in the average to slightly above average range.

 

edit, and isn't it amazing that no one wants to argue global warming on the scientific principles.

its just more fun to keep it political. :hyper:

[jaaman]

..just leave my gas guzzling piggy alone

actually, if you go the the EPA website, the shelby has a pollution impact in the average to slightly above average range.

 

edit, and isn't it amazing that no one wants to argue global warming on the scientific principles.

its just more fun to keep it political. :hyper:

 

I Hear ya, OINK OINK

[Orf]

I try to stay out of these politically weighted debates. Generally, nobody will change there opinion through "debate" - me included.

 

A few thing to keep in mind:

 

At one time, the educated elite believed....

 

- The earth was flat and it was the center of the universe, before Copernicus and Galileo.

 

- Bloodletting was the only way to cure viral infections.

 

- A heavier than air machine would never be able to fly.

 

- Nuclear fission was impossible.

 

- In the early 70's, many of the current scientific "town criers" believed the next ice age was upon us. This was the movment that gave us the original Earth Day.

 

Also consider the time sample we are talking about here. How long have people been keeping accurate records of temperatures? 100 years? 150? Give the benefit of the doubt and say we've been at it for 200 years. The earth has been around how long? 6.5 billion years? That's 0.000003% of the life of the planet. Hardly enough for indisputable evidence.

 

I know they can extrapolate temperatures from ice cores. Those same ice cores have shown even more drastic warming periods,over shorter time periods, dating to before the existence of Homo Sapiens. There are also documents from the Roman era that shows the Romans were growing grapes in Britain in the Middle Ages. The vikings were farming on Greenland in the 1600's. Neither of those activities are happening now. (Well, maybe hybrid strains of grapes can be grown in Britain today, but not the same variety that the Romans grew)

 

I don't know. Call me crazy, but sometimes I think scientists are more concerned about having their "groundbreaking" work published and sensationalized than they are about getting it right.

[Alloy Dave]

I try to stay out of these politically weighted debates. Generally, nobody will change there opinion through "debate" - me included.

 

A few thing to keep in mind:

 

At one time, the educated elite believed....

 

- The earth was flat and it was the center of the universe, before Copernicus and Galileo.

 

- Bloodletting was the only way to cure viral infections.

 

- A heavier than air machine would never be able to fly.

 

- Nuclear fission was impossible.

 

- In the early 70's, many of the current scientific "town criers" believed the next ice age was upon us. This was the movment that gave us the original Earth Day.

 

Also consider the time sample we are talking about here. How long have people been keeping accurate records of temperatures? 100 years? 150? Give the benefit of the doubt and say we've been at it for 200 years. The earth has been around how long? 6.5 billion years? That's 0.000003% of the life of the planet. Hardly enough for indisputable evidence.

 

I know they can extrapolate temperatures from ice cores. Those same ice cores have shown even more drastic warming periods,over shorter time periods, dating to before the existence of Homo Sapiens. There are also documents from the Roman era that shows the Romans were growing grapes in Britain in the Middle Ages. The vikings were farming on Greenland in the 1600's. Neither of those activities are happening now. (Well, maybe hybrid strains of grapes can be grown in Britain today, but not the same variety that the Romans grew)

 

I don't know. Call me crazy, but sometimes I think scientists are more concerned about having their "groundbreaking" work published and sensationalized than they are about getting it right.

Orf, you are right...you should stay out of these types of topics...you make entirely too much sense.

[Joker45]

LOL, Very good points Orf.

[KCMO-GT500]

LOL, Very good points Orf.

 

 

one of the most important points made by our friend orf is what is being considered as recorded history regarding temps. world was ending a mini ice age about the early to middle 1800s. Makes comparisons difficult. don't get me wrong though, we need to be vigilant and investigate the earth's climate. Whether or not it is within normal variations, we may have to make some drastic adjustments to what is going on. Certainly may involve moving away from the coasts. And I for one would love to see us get away from the use of mid eastern oil, so our decisions regarding that area are much more objective.

[68fastback]

.

 

It's like EvilChris has returned from another life <lol>

 

.

 

btw, I don't think it's criminally incongruous to own a car like the GT500 which most will put only 'fun' miles on each year and which runs 100x cleaner than the average car from not all that long ago.

 

I don't have a GT500 but we conserve in every way possible. For example homes consume huge amounts of natural resources too... electricity, heating/how-water fuel(s). Our present home, which I designed and contracted and built parts of myself is 50% larger than our old home and uses 40% of the energy in total. It's not that hard to do (not going to go into it here unless there's interest).

 

I am an ongoing member in well over a dozen environmental/conservation groups (not radical groups) and active in a couple. I read the actual literature on global warming, not the popular press stuff that is either incompetantly reported or has a political axe to grind.

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I believe there are some core truths on this subject. As humans we are having a very measurable affect on climate -- the correlation of carbon-based fuel consumption and CO2 increases in the atmoshpere is undeniable, imo, and in the opinion of virtually every research study I've seen.

 

However, there are natural cycles that affect this too and those do not come with a playcard. It would seem that, on the natural cycle, we're actually in a slight cooling cycle, and even well-intentioned (to be kind) organizations confuse this with the effects we as humans are causing which appears to be tantamount to the natural cycle, and than some, so far.

 

One of the genuine fears has to do with impacting the 'Atlantic Conveyor,' an enormous natural thermal cycle in which tiny hiccups cause things like the mini ice age that precipitated the dark ages (hard to advance the more noble causes in society when survival is inconveniently bumped up to top priority by climate change). The associated Atlantic Conveyor fear today is that the increased global temperatures which are draining enormous amounts of cold and fresh water (from arctic and antarctic glacier melting which is occurring at a greatly accelerated rate) into the Atlantic thermal conveyor (actualy a misnomer since it affects about 1/2 the globe) may cause a reoccurrence of a minor hiccup and dramatically drop temperatures in continental Europe and much of eastern N.America. So, one of global warming's biggest threats may be severly colder temperatures in some parts of the world and higher temps, drought and desert expansion in others, not to mention worldwide coastal flooding (most of the world's population exists within close proximity of tidewater).

 

These kinds of changes happening gradually would be problematic to adjust to, but the Atlantic Conveyor can shut down very rapidly, years-decades, not millenia (it has before). How would much of the US and most all of Europe and more deal with such changes with today's population changes, let alone the more unfortunate peoples of our planet.

 

I think you will see automakers start to press goverments around the world for parity, i.e. if CO2 is to be regulated, then regulate it across all industries, all consumption and to the same polution standards -- because regulating CO2 for carbon-based fuels is (today) like regulating fuel consumption itself -- and should be across all industries then... at least that's the tack I think we'll see... CAFE out, CO2 in, parity across all uses.

 

In the broader social context, does this mean GT500s should not exist? Does it mean professional auto racing of all stripes should be banned? Or should driving to any sports event be banned (a lot of 'wasted' fuel<lol>)? How about driving to work? School? Shopping? In a free society what is 'necessary' and what's 'optinal' ...and who decides?

 

When we can answer those questions we'll have a 'social' answer as to who is a 'hypocrite' and who isn't. But, in a free society, I think our right to LIFE, LIBERTY and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS could hang in the balance. Is it not socially fair if someone reduces their home carbon emissions by X% and redirects a small portion of that to the difference between the average vehicle carbon consumption and that of a GT500 (which is probably way under the national average anyway given how many miles they will be driven on average and given the mix of vehicles on the road).

 

These are clearly questions where an easy answer would be, well, just that -- easy, but likely superficial. If you think some of the questions I raise are unreasonable or oppressive, you really don't want to know some of my green 'friends' who would just as soon tell you what you can drive, where you can drive, how much you can consume and actively lobby others to enforce that on us without even scant consideration of the poor in rural areas, let alone the overall impact on Middle America. I don't mean to imply the 'greens' are society's enemy -- they arent, as long as we balance solutions with as much dilegence as we study the problem.

 

Ultimately, the actions have to respect the needs of the society it's attempting to 'cure,' else is it not just a worse abuse with a different face painted on it?

 

Peace...

 

-Dan

 

<edit:> spelling

[KCMO-GT500]

Dan, I love your presentations, they are intellectually honest and challenging.

 

..and for what its worth, evil chris IS back, but I'm not telling who he is; but he really has been on his best since his return.

[500PLUS]

I hope they do bring out more Shelby Mustangs, the more the merrier I say. We didn't buy our '07 as an investment, we bought it to enjoy it and will probably own it until we tip over. As far as not paying over MSRP, if you really don't want to, don't, but you may have to go without. Or wait and buy a used one. To each his own.

 

 

Remember people...Sticks and Stones....blah blah blah!!!

I tuned in to this to dwell on crazy fast, smokin hot cars not to listen to a couple of middle aged babies get into a pissing match (OOPS.. did I type that out loud!) Can't we just all get along?

Anyhow, when I read the comment about tipping over it made me realize that my 4 teenage sons are already posturing to own my toys when I'm too old. The way I look at it I need two more hot toys to go with my Harley and my GT500 so no one gets left out. Just wait until I spring this revelation on my wife....it's a whole new level of rationalization. She won't know what hit her.

By the way, as for the issue of Global warming vs owning a hotrod. I'm a LEED ap, have served on a nonprofit recyling board and helped develop the construction waste control and recycling programs for my last employer (a national general contractor). Sooo I've given more than I've taken I think. (More rationalization)

You know, I'm just happy live in a country that allows all of us to voice our opinions. And drive gas guzzling muscle cars. And that's all I have to say about that

By the way....where does my $1300 gas guzzler tax go? I think it is used to subsidize all those hybrid cars so the treehuggers can afford them. (Oops... thinking out loud again)

[KCMO-GT500]

Remember people...Sticks and Stones....blah blah blah!!!

I tuned in to this to dwell on crazy fast, smokin hot cars not to listen to a couple of middle aged babies get into a pissing match (OOPS.. did I type that out loud!) Can't we just all get along?

Anyhow, when I read the comment about tipping over it made me realize that my 4 teenage sons are already posturing to own my toys when I'm too old. The way I look at it I need two more hot toys to go with my Harley and my GT500 so no one gets left out. Just wait until I spring this revelation on my wife....it's a whole new level of rationalization. She won't know what hit her.

By the way, as for the issue of Global warming vs owning a hotrod. I'm a LEED ap, have served on a nonprofit recyling board and helped develop the construction waste control and recycling programs for my last employer (a national general contractor). Sooo I've given more than I've taken I think. (More rationalization)

You know, I'm just happy live in a country that allows all of us to voice our opinions. And drive gas guzzling muscle cars. And that's all I have to say about that

By the way....where does my $1300 gas guzzler tax go? I think it is used to subsidize all those hybrid cars so the treehuggers can afford them. (Oops... thinking out loud again)

 

 

GGT to the general treasury. But I am sure our government is taking REAL good care of it

[HSURB]

Dan, I love your presentations, they are intellectually honest and challenging.

 

..and for what its worth, evil chris IS back, but I'm not telling who he is; but he really has been on his best since his return.

 

 

John:

 

Send me a PM and tell me who he is since he's been back? I've got to know. And I won't tell.

 

HSURB

[68fastback]

Dan, I love your presentations, they are intellectually honest and challenging.

 

..and for what its worth, evil chris IS back, but I'm not telling who he is; but he really has been on his best since his return.

 

Thanks John, I appreciate that.

 

-------------

 

Ok, who is he? <lol>

[SpeedRacer]

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It's like EvilChris has returned from another life <lol>

 

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btw, I don't think it's criminally incongruous to own a car like the GT500 which most will put only 'fun' miles on each year and which runs 100x cleaner than the average car from not all that long ago.

 

I don't have a GT500 but we conserve in every way possible. For example homes consume huge amounts of natural resources too... electricity, heating/how-water fuel(s). Our present home, which I designed and contracted and built parts of myself is 50% larger than our old home and uses 40% of the energy in total. It's not that hard to do (not going to go into it here unless there's interest).

 

I am an ongoing member in well over a dozen environmental/conservation groups (not radical groups) and active in a couple. I read the actual literature on global warming, not the popular press stuff that is either incompetantly reported or has a political axe to grind.

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I believe there are some core truths on this subject. As humans we are having a very measurable affect on climate -- the correlation of carbon-based fuel consumption and CO2 increases in the atmoshpere is undeniable, imo, and in the opinion of virtually every research study I've seen.

 

However, there are natural cycles that affect this too and those do not come with a playcard. It would seem that, on the natural cycle, we're actually in a slight cooling cycle, and even well-intentioned (to be kind) organizations confuse this with the effects we as humans are causing which appears to be tantamount to the natural cycle, and than some, so far.

 

One of the genuine fears has to do with impacting the 'Atlantic Conveyor,' an enormous natural thermal cycle in which tiny hiccups cause things like the mini ice age that precipitated the dark ages (hard to advance the more noble causes in society when survival is inconveniently bumped up to top priority by climate change). The associated Atlantic Conveyor fear today is that the increased global temperatures which are draining enormous amounts of cold and fresh water (from arctic and antarctic glacier melting which is occurring at a greatly accelerated rate) into the Atlantic thermal conveyor (actualy a misnomer since it affects about 1/2 the globe) may cause a reoccurrence of a minor hiccup and dramatically drop temperatures in continental Europe and much of eastern N.America. So, one of global warming's biggest threats may be severly colder temperatures in some parts of the world and higher temps, drought and desert expansion in others, not to mention worldwide coastal flooding (most of the world's population exists within close proximity of tidewater).

 

These kinds of changes happening gradually would be problematic to adjust to, but the Atlantic Conveyor can shut down very rapidly, years-decades, not millenia (it has before). How would much of the US and most all of Europe and more deal with such changes with today's population changes, let alone the more unfortunate peoples of our planet.

 

I think you will see automakers start to press goverments around the world for parity, i.e. if CO2 is to be regulated, then regulate it across all industries, all consumption and to the same polution standards -- because regulating CO2 for carbon-based fuels is (today) like regulating fuel consumption itself -- and should be across all industries then... at least that's the tack I think we'll see... CAFE out, CO2 in, parity across all uses.

 

In the broader social context, does this mean GT500s should not exist? Does it mean professional auto racing of all stripes should be banned? Or should driving to any sports event be banned (a lot of 'wasted' fuel<lol>)? How about driving to work? School? Shopping? In a free society what is 'necessary' and what's 'optinal' ...and who decides?

 

When we can answer those questions we'll have a 'social' answer as to who is a 'hypocrite' and who isn't. But, in a free society, I think our right to LIFE, LIBERTY and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS could hang in the balance. Is it not socially fair if someone reduces their home carbon emissions by X% and redirects a small portion of that to the difference between the average vehicle carbon consumption and that of a GT500 (which is probably way under the national average anyway given how many miles they will be driven on average and given the mix of vehicles on the road).

 

These are clearly questions where an easy answer would be, well, just that -- easy, but likely superficial. If you think some of the questions I raise are unreasonable or oppressive, you really don't want to know some of my green 'friends' who would just as soon tell you what you can drive, where you can drive, how much you can consume and actively lobby others to enforce that on us without even scant consideration of the poor in rural areas, let alone the overall impact on Middle America. I don't mean to imply the 'greens' are society's enemy -- they arent, as long as we balance solutions with as much dilegence as we study the problem.

 

Ultimately, the actions have to respect the needs of the society it's attempting to 'cure,' else is it not just a worse abuse with a different face painted on it?

 

Peace...

 

-Dan

 

<edit:> spelling

 

Dan,

 

+1 As always, well thought out; little to no emotion; no hubris; great argument.

 

Regards,

 

Stuart

[150man]

But, in a free society, I think our right to LIFE, LIBERTY and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS could hang in the balance.

 

This is why some of us get a little irritable when talk of global warming comes up. Global warming science has been disputed, and it seems more and more scientists are jumping over to the skeptical side as time goes on. Once freedom is lost, it's next to impossible to get it back.

 

'68, I think it's real nice that you're able to design and build your own home, and that by doing so, you are able to quiet your conscience somewhat over driving high performance cars. Not many of us have the training, expertice, or money to do that. Just like many do not have the money to purchase carbon credits like the Al Gore's of the world, (who BTW- stands to make millions, $$$, over the carbon credit scheme- he owns the company.)

 

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_...res_inconv.html