SVT NAJA Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 The 2012 Boss really puts the '07-09 GT500s to shame. Ford has scrambled to justify the GT500s price with additional HP and some electronic crap to partially overcome the 500s inability to utilize its original power levels. It will be interesting to see if Ford has addressed the GT500s severe, inexcuseable, traction problems in any meaningfull way. They have yet to do so to date. Stepping back for a moment, why are you trying to compare 07-09 GT500's with a vehicle that is 3 years newer??? 3 years in the (new) domestic auto industry is an eternity. Why didn't you compare a newer Shelby GT500, say a 2011 or 2012??? Before you do, read and watch this, then choose your words carefully... Hint... make sure you compare the base cost of a 2011 GT500 w/SVTPP and a 2012 Boss 302 LS, because that's the comparison here. http://www.insidelin...-shoot-out.html At best, it's a draw. The difference is... the Boss isn't and never will have the heritage of a Shelby. And the value of that my friend is priceless! Edit - spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyman Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'll probably fall over in my chair the day you make a post without offending someone. You must be very unhappy, so sad. Get serious. Please explain how comparing one Mustang with another could possibly be "offensive" to any rational person. Lighten up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NordicShelby Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 5.0, less weight on the nose Thanks Tim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisSD Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 What makes you think an N/A 5.8 is any heavier than the 5.0? They are both all aluminum and the modular has less parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL SHELBY Posted January 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I read some where the 5.8 is within a pound of the 5.4, ~625lbs? So, what does the supercharger and intercooler weight, 80lbs-100lbs with coolant? and then tack back on the estimated weight of a composite intake. The 5.0 weights ~450lbs? I'm pretty sure the N/A 5.8L would weigh more than the 5.0L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisSD Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 http://www.fordracin...tKeyField=12402 KB Kit for a 5.0.169lb package without coolant. Some parts are redundant there, but a blower, intercooler, heat exchanger, all the coolant, belt is a lot more than 100lbs. The 5.8 would weigh the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckySnake Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Get serious. Please explain how comparing one Mustang with another could possibly be "offensive" to any rational person. Lighten up. You come accross as a person with an axe to grind and maybe your not, but that's how you come accross in your posts. Please post a picture of your Mustang / Shelby and talk about something positive.You can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL SHELBY Posted January 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 http://www.fordracin...tKeyField=12402 KB Kit for a 5.0.169lb package without coolant. Some parts are redundant there, but a blower, intercooler, heat exchanger, all the coolant, belt is a lot more than 100lbs. The 5.8 would weigh the same. I missed the the intercooler in my guess. Assuming the Whipple is nearly identical to the SVT set-up I'll give you 150-160lbs, so they are within ~15-25lbs of each other with the 5.0L being lighter. Not enough to make a significant differance in performance between the two based in weight alone. Interesting..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyman Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 You come accross as a person with an axe to grind and maybe your not, but that's how you come accross in your posts. Please post a picture of your Mustang / Shelby and talk about something positive.You can do it. You are coming across as a person who has the need to squelch anyone who has an opinion or perspective that differs from his own, a.k.a. control freak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svttim Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 http://www.fordracin...tKeyField=12402 KB Kit for a 5.0.169lb package without coolant. Some parts are redundant there, but a blower, intercooler, heat exchanger, all the coolant, belt is a lot more than 100lbs. The 5.8 would weigh the same. Difference is 444 lbs for a 5,0 : 708 lbs for a 5.4. Remove the blower, add the intake. While the difference wont be 260 lbs, it will be heavier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svttim Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 I missed the the intercooler in my guess. Assuming the Whipple is nearly identical to the SVT set-up I'll give you 150-160lbs, so they are within ~15-25lbs of each other with the 5.0L being lighter. Not enough to make a significant differance in performance between the two based in weight alone. Interesting..... I am a bit confused on both of your analogies. Intercoolers, radiators ect are irrelivant. The differance in engine alone is about 260 lbs. You remove 150 of superchager, you still have 100 extra lbs over the wheels. If you want to take the intercooler and coolant into account, you have to add that to the 260, then subtract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyman Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 You can dance around the 5.0 vs 5.4 till the cows come home. When you boil off the fluff and BS there remains the fact that the 5.4 is a jacked up truck motor and the 5.0 is a high tech performance work of engineering art from the go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agas Ride Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 You can dance around the 5.0 vs 5.4 till the cows come home. When you boil off the fluff and BS there remains the fact that the 5.4 is a jacked up truck motor and the 5.0 is a high tech performance work of engineering art from the go. You had best look at the latest issue of Hot Rod Magazine to really see what a High Tec work of Art Motor REALLY looks like!... And 1 with 200 HP MORE POWER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL SHELBY Posted January 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 I am a bit confused on both of your analogies. Intercoolers, radiators ect are irrelivant. The differance in engine alone is about 260 lbs. You remove 150 of supercharger, you still have 100 extra lbs over the wheels. If you want to take the intercooler and coolant into account, you have to add that to the 260, then subtract Good point. ~625lbs for the 5.8L fully dressed. ~450lbs for the 5.0L fully dressed. Assuming 150Lbs for the supercharger & intercooler/manifold which rest directly below the supercharger, add back in a composite manifold to replace the supercharger & intercooler you are within ~30-35lbs. I'm not considering the heat exchanger which sits up front with the radiator. Coolant shouldn't have enter the equation when considering the motor alone. To your point, dropping the heat exchanger, pump, and coolant will improve the GT500's overall front end weight but doesn't effect the weight of the motor. Where are you getting a difference of 260lbs? I'm working from memory of what I've read over the last year on both engines and my memory is far from spotless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyman Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 You had best look at the latest issue of Hot Rod Magazine to really see what a High Tec work of Art Motor REALLY looks like!... And 1 with 200 HP MORE POWER! Not a particular fan of "Hot Rod" magazine and will not be seeking that issue. I doubt that what you are refering to is a current production engine in the 5.0L class and priced in line with Ford products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NordicShelby Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 2013 Grabber Blue GT500 is on the front cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agas Ride Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Not a particular fan of "Hot Rod" magazine and will not be seeking that issue. I doubt that what you are refering to is a current production engine in the 5.0L class and priced in line with Ford products. You really should pick up the new issue as it has a complete break down of the NEW 5.8 GT500 Motor in it.. You might then see what the LATEST High Tech offering Ford has, thus making the New 5.0 YESTERDAYS News.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisSD Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Difference is 444 lbs for a 5,0 : 708 lbs for a 5.4. Remove the blower, add the intake. While the difference wont be 260 lbs, it will be heavier 444lbs? You are using 708 from the fully dressed 5.4. http://www.fordracin...tKeyField=11829 5.0 is not 448 dressed, it's 553. Boss is even heavier: http://www.fordracin...tKeyField=12865 568lbs. 5.4: http://www.fordracin...tKeyField=11985 140 difference between dressed Boss and GT500. Remove the blower and intercooler and they'll be very close together in weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL SHELBY Posted January 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 444lbs? You are using 708 from the fully dressed 5.4. http://www.fordracin...tKeyField=11829 5.0 is not 448 dressed, it's 553. Boss is even heavier: http://www.fordracin...tKeyField=12865 568lbs. 5.4: http://www.fordracin...tKeyField=11985 140 difference between dressed Boss and GT500. Remove the blower and intercooler and they'll be very close together in weight. Those are package weights for shipping (crate and all), not engine weights. Right?, or am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svttim Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Good point. ~625lbs for the 5.8L fully dressed. ~450lbs for the 5.0L fully dressed. Assuming 150Lbs for the supercharger & intercooler/manifold which rest directly below the supercharger, add back in a composite manifold to replace the supercharger & intercooler you are within ~30-35lbs. I'm not considering the heat exchanger which sits up front with the radiator. Coolant shouldn't have enter the equation when considering the motor alone. To your point, dropping the heat exchanger, pump, and coolant will improve the GT500's overall front end weight but doesn't effect the weight of the motor. Where are you getting a difference of 260lbs? I'm working from memory of what I've read over the last year on both engines and my memory is far from spotless. Weights are from the Ford Racing catalog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svttim Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 444lbs? You are using 708 from the fully dressed 5.4. http://www.fordracin...tKeyField=11829 5.0 is not 448 dressed, it's 553. Boss is even heavier: http://www.fordracin...tKeyField=12865 568lbs. 5.4: http://www.fordracin...tKeyField=11985 140 difference between dressed Boss and GT500. Remove the blower and intercooler and they'll be very close together in weight. You are correct, dont know what I was looking at. ?? If the 5.4 is the hot ticket, why is no one using it in racing?? Twenty pounds on the front of a car is too much, in fact, those with the 302 remove weight on the front end of the car. 5.4 is not the choice for road course duty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svttim Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 You can dance around the 5.0 vs 5.4 till the cows come home. When you boil off the fluff and BS there remains the fact that the 5.4 is a jacked up truck motor and the 5.0 is a high tech performance work of engineering art from the go. No offense but, this is about as dumb a statement as it comes. Same could be said about a 427 SOHC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisSD Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 You are correct, dont know what I was looking at. ?? If the 5.4 is the hot ticket, why is no one using it in racing?? Twenty pounds on the front of a car is too much, in fact, those with the 302 remove weight on the front end of the car. 5.4 is not the choice for road course duty The 2000 Cobra R did very well with it. Read up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL SHELBY Posted January 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 You are correct, dont know what I was looking at. ?? If the 5.4 is the hot ticket, why is no one using it in racing?? Twenty pounds on the front of a car is too much, in fact, those with the 302 remove weight on the front end of the car. 5.4 is not the choice for road course duty Until the 5.0L Coyote was introduced the FR500C untilized a 5.0L verson of the 4.6L Cobra motor of which the 5.4L is also based on though I believe the 5.4L is a different casting. So if you squint your eyes you could say it has been used in road course duty. Yes, 20-30lbs can be very significant in professional racing. But for most of us 'wanna-be Speedracers' it doesn't. Actually, I believe the BOSS 302r has been required to carry additional ballest by NASA in order to remain competative. The current 5.0 Magazine states the shipping weight of the 5.8L as 623lbs and adds that this is nearly 200lbs more than the 5.0L. I assume when the say shipping weight they are refering to shipment from the Nich line and the motor does not have items like the alternator and A/C pump hanging off of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Hamilton Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 I’m always amazed at people who do things to take off 3 pounds here, 15 pounds there, and maybe 20 pounds total with all their lightweight mods… Hell, just go on a diet and lose 30 pounds around your waistline/ass and spend your money on adding horsepower. Okay, I know all the 147 pound guys are gonna flame this but if you’re a 200 plus’er like me, you know it’s true (LOL). :hammer_self: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL SHELBY Posted January 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 I’m always amazed at people who do things to take off 3 pounds here, 15 pounds there, and maybe 20 pounds total with all their lightweight mods… Hell, just go on a diet and lose 30 pounds around your waistline/ass and spend your money on adding horsepower. Okay, I know all the 147 pound guys are gonna flame this but if you’re a 200 plus’er like me, you know it’s true (LOL). :hammer_self: +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2010KonaBlueGT Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 I’m always amazed at people who do things to take off 3 pounds here, 15 pounds there, and maybe 20 pounds total with all their lightweight mods… Hell, just go on a diet and lose 30 pounds around your waistline/ass and spend your money on adding horsepower. Okay, I know all the 147 pound guys are gonna flame this but if you’re a 200 plus’er like me, you know it’s true (LOL). :hammer_self: Ask Robbie Gordon what he thinks of Danika Patrick! When he 'bitched' about her light weight, she suggested he lay off the doughnuts and HE could be light too! (ouch!) Every POUND counts, in racing. I'd rather be fat and happy than skinny and fast(er)! Phill (215lbs @ 5'11") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyman Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 No offense but, this is about as dumb a statement as it comes. Same could be said about a 427 SOHC. Dumb statement? Indeed. Tell me, which of the current V8s will prevail and be the mainstay of the next generation Stangs the best of which will run circles around the currnet GT500s. The 5.0 is far superior in many aspects when compared to the truck motor in the GT500s. Sorry but the Kool Aide guzzlers need to open their eyes and smell reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agas Ride Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 You really should pick up the new issue as it has a complete break down of the NEW 5.8 GT500 Motor in it.. You might then see what the LATEST High Tech offering Ford has, thus making the New 5.0 YESTERDAYS News.. I don't think you get IT..The little 5.0 is all ready YESTERDAYS NEWS!..Ford has just released the New 5.8 GT500 Motor and it makes 650HP Stock! Get real bigger is always better.. YOU SHOULD GET OUT MORE AND READ UP ON YOUR FACTS.. Oh thats right you Don' t read Hot Rod, well just pick any of the Auto mags that have reviewed the New GT500 to see what a NEW HIGH TECH Motor is.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svttim Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Dumb statement? Indeed. Tell me, which of the current V8s will prevail and be the mainstay of the next generation Stangs the best of which will run circles around the currnet GT500s. The 5.0 is far superior in many aspects when compared to the truck motor in the GT500s. Sorry but the Kool Aide guzzlers need to open their eyes and smell reality. Ah, I see you read well. Now go back and read my other posts. What 5.4 4 valve motor was released in a truck? What 5.4 4 valve powered motor powered the Ford GT. Got nothing to do with Cool aid, a motor is a motor, they all have the same pieces, some have better parts for performance. Weather the 5.0 is superior to the 5.4 has nothing to do with trucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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