Rachane Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 HID Guys offers an HID fog light conversion kit and also LED fog light bulbs. I would like my fog lights to be as bright, hence useful, as possible. I also want to be careful not to harm the wiring, fuses, etc. of the car. Any comments or recommendations from owners who have installed either of these? I note that HID Guys offers LED replacements for just about every lightbulb on the car: dome, license plate, trunk, backup, etc. Anyone have experience with/comments concerning these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Gorilla Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 To answer your last question, refer to this link: http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/index.php?/topic/67042-complete-led-conversion-video-and-pictures-inside/page__p__1150040__fromsearch__1#entry1150040 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelTownStang Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 I have had experience with both... HIDs may melt your housings- did mine, however, this appears to have been remedied. The LED projects no usable light. If his 25w HIDs are now truly "safe", then HIDs are the direction that you should go if you want improved light output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Hoss 540 Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 Find a LED replacement and they will be awesome if it is the right type and color! I have 1 cell flashlights that put out 3000 Lumens!! Blinding is not the word for it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Gorilla Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 LED projects no usable light....HIDs are the direction that you should go if you want improved light output. I respectfully disagree. The LEDs I used may not put out as much light as HIDs, but they are at least as bright as the stockers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrakRat Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 Our fog lights are poorly designed and are more fire show than for actually adding any real light to your field of view. I still haven't had a chance to fab a bracket to hold a set of PIAA 510 driving lights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachane Posted August 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 Thanks, guys -This is extremely helpful and informative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelTownStang Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 Find a LED replacement and they will be awesome if it is the right type and color! I have 1 cell flashlights that put out 3000 Lumens!! Blinding is not the word for it!! I respectfully disagree. The LEDs I used may not put out as much light as HIDs, but they are at least as bright as the stockers. I'm not going to get into the dynamics of lighting... I quick google search will provide a great deal of information on “this”… Yes, if you look at the LEDs, it’ll be bright, i.e., “1 cell flashlights that put out 3000 Lumens”, however, the amount of light projected/thrown, is minimal. I’ve had both the HIDs and LEDs installed. You cannot compare the HIDs… but the OEM set-up actually “throws” more light than the LEDs. Here are a couple of pics of LEDs installed on the driver’s side (OEM- passenger)… notice the projection on the floor. I did not take pictures of the wall, which really tells the story, but you should get an idea what I’m trying to explain. The OP is looking for "usefull" lighting, as such, I recommend the HIDs, or stay w/ the OEMs... or not. To be honest, if you’re happy with the LEDs… cool. They do look nice… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Gorilla Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 I'm not going to get into the dynamics of lighting... I quick google search will provide a great deal of information on “this”… Yes, if you look at the LEDs, it’ll be bright, i.e., “1 cell flashlights that put out 3000 Lumens”, however, the amount of light projected/thrown, is minimal. I’ve had both the HIDs and LEDs installed. You cannot compare the HIDs… but the OEM set-up actually “throws” more light than the LEDs. Here are a couple of pics of LEDs installed on the driver’s side (OEM- passenger)… notice the projection on the floor. I did not take pictures of the wall, which really tells the story, but you should get an idea what I’m trying to explain. The OP is looking for "usefull" lighting, as such, I recommend the HIDs, or stay w/ the OEMs... or not. To be honest, if you’re happy with the LEDs… cool. They do look nice… Fair enough. If we are truly looking at the fog lights for use in FOG, then the OEMs are probably superior to both the aftermarket LEDs and HIDs. My goal was more for looks, to get the headlights, fogs, sidemarkers, and turn signals all as close to each other and to 5,000K as possible. I would say that we get about one day a year of fog in this part of Virginia that requires actual fog lights, so I wasn't really looking for functionality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Hoss 540 Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 Sorry but what you are saying about LED's is not correct. Light is measured in Lumens and the color of light is measured by degrees Kelvin. I have 25 watt and 35 watt HID flashlights that are bested in throw by LED lights because of the reflector design. Some are long range pencil beam others are wide. The cutting edge of lighting in off road racing for example is moving to LED because of the sheer output that is capable of modern LEDs. If you will do the research you will find that there are LED lights that can be bought that put out 10800 Lumens which no HID flashlight can match. If you want to do the due diligence take a look at these http://www.elektrolumens.com/ prior to making statements that are based on old outdated information. In 10 years HID lights will have gone the way of the incandescent light bulb. My Light collection consists of the lights on Waynes page along with many others he has built in the past as well as other builders. Just a note here when standing in the noon sun my Big Bruiser single cell 26650 LIMN when turned on is noticeably brighter than direct sunlight when pointed toward the ground. These lights are designed with specific LEDs driven by a specific power supply and will someday be a everyday type light you can buy anywhere. This is illustrated by for example what most people consider to be a very high performance LED light only puts out 300 lumens Wayne was building almost 10 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03 DSG Snake Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 I have had experience with both... HIDs may melt your housings- did mine, however, this appears to have been remedied. The LED projects no usable light. If his 25w HIDs are now truly "safe", then HIDs are the direction that you should go if you want improved light output. Who is making the 25w 'safe' ones? I've seen HIDGuy market 'safe' ones before on another GT500 Forum, and people still got melty housings out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelTownStang Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 Sorry but what you are saying about LED's is not correct. Light is measured in Lumens and the color of light is measured by degrees Kelvin. I have 25 watt and 35 watt HID flashlights that are bested in throw by LED lights because of the reflector design. Some are long range pencil beam others are wide. The cutting edge of lighting in off road racing for example is moving to LED because of the sheer output that is capable of modern LED’s. If you will do the research you will find that there are LED lights that can be bought that put out 10800 Lumens which no HID flashlight can match. If you want to do the due diligence take a look at these http://www.elektrolumens.com/ prior to making statements that are based on old outdated information. In 10 years HID lights will have gone the way of the incandescent light bulb. My Light collection consists of the lights on Wayne’s page along with many others he has built in the past as well as other builders. Just a note here when standing in the noon sun my Big Bruiser single cell 26650 LIMN when turned on is noticeably brighter than direct sunlight when pointed toward the ground. These lights are designed with specific LED’s driven by a specific power supply and will someday be a everyday type light you can buy anywhere. This is illustrated by for example what most people consider to be a very high performance LED light only puts out 300 lumens Wayne was building almost 10 years ago. No need to apologize… Thanks for the words of wisdom. Dully noted, however, I’m familiar with light emitting diode technology, maybe not to the extent that you are… I also know about lumens, foot-candles, illuminance, candlepower, and other measurements of light output. Honestly, I’m not passionate enough about the topic to debate it… due diligence notwithstanding. What’s perplexing is that we’re discussing fog lights and you give me a link to flashlights. Thanks, but I already have a flashlight. I guess that’s my fault for using your quote- and I can see how you might have mistaken that I had interest in flashlights, which I don’t. To avoid any further confusion, let us focus on the LED fog light bulbs for now… specifically the ones offered by Oscar Ruiz, aka HIDGuy, as inquired by the OP: http://www.hidguy.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=706_707_770_773&products_id=817 Upon due diligence I will say that the HIDGuy’s LED bulbs do not “project” with the same amount of light/lumens, measured or otherwise, as illustrated in the aforementioned post… and as acknowledged by the vendor himself. You can conduct your own research if you’d like, and maybe even invite Wayne to the party to legitimize your findings. Conclusion: The OEM fogs, however pathetic, emit more “useful” light than the LED bulbs as discussed above. Who is making the 25w 'safe' ones? I've seen HIDGuy market 'safe' ones before on another GT500 Forum, and people still got melty housings out of it. Hey DSG, Yes, I’m very familiar with “that” thread as I posted in it several time. I was one of the unlucky ones to have had my housings/reflectors melt with HIDGuy’s early 25w claimed “safe” set-up. Apparently, he tweaked it and he is “now” recommending the removal of the vent stickers. A few members on TS, as well as fortgt500, have reported that they are now "safe". Notice that I said "if" in my earlier post... I'm still skeptical and have given up on the HIDs for now. It too bad, because the 4.3K matched the OEM HID headlights and they were "bright". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Hoss 540 Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Off Road Racing Lights No need to apologize… Thanks for the words of wisdom. Dully noted, however, I’m familiar with light emitting diode technology, maybe not to the extent that you are… I also know about lumens, foot-candles, illuminance, candlepower, and other measurements of light output. Honestly, I’m not passionate enough about the topic to debate it… due diligence notwithstanding. What’s perplexing is that we’re discussing fog lights and you give me a link to flashlights. Thanks, but I already have a flashlight. I guess that’s my fault for using your quote- and I can see how you might have mistaken that I had interest in flashlights, which I don’t. To avoid any further confusion, let us focus on the LED fog light bulbs for now… specifically the ones offered by Oscar Ruiz, aka HIDGuy, as inquired by the OP: http://www.hidguy.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=706_707_770_773&products_id=817 Upon due diligence I will say that the HIDGuy’s LED bulbs do not “project” with the same amount of light/lumens, measured or otherwise, as illustrated in the aforementioned post… and as acknowledged by the vendor himself. You can conduct your own research if you’d like, and maybe even invite Wayne to the party to legitimize your findings. Conclusion: The OEM fogs, however pathetic, emit more “useful” light than the LED bulbs as discussed above. Hey DSG, Yes, I’m very familiar with “that” thread as I posted in it several time. I was one of the unlucky ones to have had my housings/reflectors melt with HIDGuy’s early 25w claimed “safe” set-up. Apparently, he tweaked it and he is “now” recommending the removal of the vent stickers. A few members on TS, as well as fortgt500, have reported that they are now "safe". Notice that I said "if" in my earlier post... I'm still skeptical and have given up on the HIDs for now. It too bad, because the 4.3K matched the OEM HID headlights and they were "bright". This is just an example of one manufacturer. http://www.performance4trucks.com/Lighting-and-Lighting-Accessories/KC-HiLites-LED-Off-Road-Driving-Lights.aspx?t_c=14&t_s=448&t_pt=101155&t_pl=102913 My bad I thought you were more cognizant of the subject matter. DOT compliance is one of the issues being worked to bring these into the mainstream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelTownStang Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Off Road Racing Lights This is just an example of one manufacturer. http://www.performance4trucks.com/Lighting-and-Lighting-Accessories/KC-HiLites-LED-Off-Road-Driving-Lights.aspx?t_c=14&t_s=448&t_pt=101155&t_pl=102913 My bad I thought you were more cognizant of the subject matter. DOT compliance is one of the issues being worked to bring these into the mainstream. Yeah, but I doubt that they’ll fit in the lower bumper cut-outs. Maybe when you add the bull bar and brush guard, or you could just Duck Tape that flashlight of yours to the hood... lol. Either way, I'm still not interested, but thanks for your efforts. It’s amazing how “cognizant” one can pretend to be with a search engine... good job! If I ever have any LED questions in the future, I’ll seek out your expert opinion... or I could just Google it. Naaaa, the former is more entertaining. I'm moving on now, but thanks for the laughs. P.S. I’m just busting your chops… Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Hoss 540 Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Understood---I like the HID's on the 2012 and would hate to have a high speed car that I drove at night that I lighting limited speed. The HID lighting was one reason I bought this car the past several cars I have had were all HID and when you get used to it conventional lighting is a huge step backwards. My AMG before this car had fog lights but never used them because the HID's pretty much negated any light they threw out because of the color. Remember that when using HID in the fog light position (or headlight conversions that are not OEM or otherwise DOT certified) it is just an excuse to be pulled over at night. If the LEO is a jerk he will write you up for them..... Have a friend who used to be a DA and they caught more than one DUI/DWI this way so be careful and know the risk. I am sure you already knew all of this but others might not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachane Posted August 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 This is all the California DMV seems to say re front fog lamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03 DSG Snake Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 This is all the California DMV seems to say re front fog lamps. Meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Hoss 540 Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Uncle says: Subpart B - Lamps, reflective devices, and electrical wiring § 393.24Requirements for head lamps, auxiliary driving lamps and front fog lamps. (a) Headlamps. Every bus, truck and truck tractor shall be equipped with headlamps as required by §393.11(a). The headlamps shall provide an upper and lower beam distribution of light, selectable at the driver's will and be steady-burning. The headlamps shall be marked in accordance with FMVSS No. 108. Auxiliary driving lamps and/or front fog lamps may not be used to satisfy the requirements of this paragraph. (B) Auxiliary driving lamps and front fog lamps. Commercial motor vehicles may be equipped with auxiliary driving lamps and/or front fog lamps for use in conjunction with, but not in lieu of the required headlamps. Auxiliary driving lamps shall meet SAE Standard J581 Auxiliary Upper Beam Lamps, July 2004, and front fog lamps shall meet SAE Standard J583 Front Fog Lamp, August 2004. (See § 393.7 for information on the incorporation by reference and availability of these documents.) © Mounting. Headlamps shall be mounted and aimable in accordance with FMVSS No. 108. Auxiliary driving lamps and front fog lamps shall be mounted so that the beams are aimable and the mounting shall prevent the aim of the lighting device from being disturbed while the vehicle is operating on public roads. (d) Aiming. Headlamps, auxiliary driving lamps and front fog lamps shall be aimed to meet the aiming specifications in FMVSS No. 108 (49 CFR 571.108), SAE J581, and SAE J583, respectively. [70 FR 48046, Aug. 15, 2005] Feedback | Privacy Policy | USA.gov | Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) | Accessibility | OIG Hotline | Web Policies and Important Links | Site Map | Plug-ins Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration 1200 New Jersey Avenue SE, Washington, DC 20590 • 1-800-832-5660 • TTY: 1-800-877-8339 • Field Office Contacts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachane Posted August 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Uncle says: Subpart B - Lamps, reflective devices, and electrical wiring § 393.24Requirements for head lamps, auxiliary driving lamps and front fog lamps. (a) Headlamps. Every bus, truck and truck tractor shall be equipped with headlamps as required by §393.11(a). The headlamps shall provide an upper and lower beam distribution of light, selectable at the driver's will and be steady-burning. The headlamps shall be marked in accordance with FMVSS No. 108. Auxiliary driving lamps and/or front fog lamps may not be used to satisfy the requirements of this paragraph. (B) Auxiliary driving lamps and front fog lamps. Commercial motor vehicles may be equipped with auxiliary driving lamps and/or front fog lamps for use in conjunction with, but not in lieu of the required headlamps. Auxiliary driving lamps shall meet SAE Standard J581 Auxiliary Upper Beam Lamps, July 2004, and front fog lamps shall meet SAE Standard J583 Front Fog Lamp, August 2004. (See § 393.7 for information on the incorporation by reference and availability of these documents.) © Mounting. Headlamps shall be mounted and aimable in accordance with FMVSS No. 108. Auxiliary driving lamps and front fog lamps shall be mounted so that the beams are aimable and the mounting shall prevent the aim of the lighting device from being disturbed while the vehicle is operating on public roads. (d) Aiming. Headlamps, auxiliary driving lamps and front fog lamps shall be aimed to meet the aiming specifications in FMVSS No. 108 (49 CFR 571.108), SAE J581, and SAE J583, respectively. [70 FR 48046, Aug. 15, 2005] Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration 1200 New Jersey Avenue SE, Washington, DC 20590 • 1-800-832-5660 • TTY: 1-800-877-8339 • Field Office Contacts Oh my god ... I swear, if I were a Highway Patrol officer, I would memorize this verbatim, just to pull someone over and recite it to him ominously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Hoss 540 Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Oh my god ... I swear, if I were a Highway Patrol officer, I would memorize this verbatim, just to pull someone over and recite it to him ominously. It has been a few years ago but I was pulled over for having driving/fog lights that were too bright in NM driving home from Denver by the NMSP. It was 2 in the morning near Raton and he did not give me a ticket but I suspect he used that as an excuse to see if I had been drinking. Do what you want but just be aware that it can put you in a position to be pulled over----for me even my headlights in my Raptor are 100 high and 80 on the low but I could care less if they pull me over because I do not drink and drive. Kind of like in Texas without a front plate you are able to be pulled over at any time no other reason needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amigo GT500 Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 It has been a few years ago but I was pulled over for having driving/fog lights that were too bright in NM driving home from Denver by the NMSP. It was 2 in the morning near Raton and he did not give me a ticket but I suspect he used that as an excuse to see if I had been drinking. Do what you want but just be aware that it can put you in a position to be pulled over----for me even my headlights in my Raptor are 100 high and 80 on the low but I could care less if they pull me over because I do not drink and drive. Kind of like in Texas without a front plate you are able to be pulled over at any time no other reason needed. Mi amigo...I have a Raptor 2011 as well.....molten orange...what is the color of yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NMAv Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Our fog lights are poorly designed and are more fire show than for actually adding any real light to your field of view. I still haven't had a chance to fab a bracket to hold a set of PIAA 510 driving lights. Let me know when you do. I would really like to add a set of PIAA's as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Hoss 540 Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Mi amigo...I have a Raptor 2011 as well.....molten orange...what is the color of yours? LOVE the Raptor!! Tell the truth---at least here people always watch the Raptor drive by I have noticed why I don't know maybe because there are not that many plus yours will really turn heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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