FR3 Handling Package question

[Stockpat]

Quick question to make sure I have my thoughts straight. After seeing several beautiful examples of lowered cars at a Shelby show in Hershey last weekend, I've been reading up on the topic. Seems that the Ford Racing springs and the FR3 pack in general get good reviews. My question, is the FR3 pack a complete solution? Most threads with conversations about springs/lowering mention the need to relocate the LCA's, an adjustable UCA and an adjustable panhard bar. If you installed the FR3 pack without the other components would you be driving around with one wheel sticking out further than the other and messed up suspension geometry? When I started to price it out on some of the vendor sites it quickly snowballed beyond FR3 pack pricing. It rapidly becomes a pretty expensive 1.25 inches. Am I overthinking this?

 

Thanks in advance,

Patrick

[2010KonaBlueGT]

Quick question to make sure I have my thoughts straight. After seeing several beautiful examples of lowered cars at a Shelby show in Hershey last weekend, I've been reading up on the topic. Seems that the Ford Racing springs and the FR3 pack in general get good reviews. My question, is the FR3 pack a complete solution? Most threads with conversations about springs/lowering mention the need to relocate the LCA's, an adjustable UCA and an adjustable panhard bar. If you installed the FR3 pack without the other components would you be driving around with one wheel sticking out further than the other and messed up suspension geometry? When I started to price it out on some of the vendor sites it quickly snowballed beyond FR3 pack pricing. It rapidly becomes a pretty expensive 1.25 inches. Am I overthinking this?

 

 

I just installed the FR3 handling pack on my 2010 GT500. I bought the Shelby (BMR?) adjustable panhard bar ahead of time anticipating the need to relocate the rear axle over *slightly*.

 

When I finally got all of the parts in and got the complete kit installed I dropped the car to the floor and it was VERY obvious that my rear axle was off center. It was one full inch off-set to the left. The left/drivers side wheel was sticking outside of the wheelwell lip by one inch and my right/pass side was inset by the same one inch. I'm really glad I bought the adjustable pahnard bar ahead of time.

 

I used a plumb bob & string to center the rear axle in the body. When I was finished, both of my rear tires ended up being perfectly aligned with the outermost fender/wheel well lip. I have a set of 18" KR Alcoa Dura-Bright wheels & winged foot F1 "Supercar" KR tires on my car but I don't think they are any wider than my OEM 19" F1 Supercar tires.

 

I also have a set of Roush adjustable Lower Control Arms (i.e. Trailing Arms), a Roush Upper Control Arm (i.e. Third Link) and a Roush adjustable Third Link/LCA bracket. I put a PST 1-pc Carbon Fiber Driveshaft in the car at the same time I put the FR3 kit in. When I set the car down and loaded the suspension my pinion angle was at 7 degrees and that was with all of the Roush control arms adjusted to the ORIGINAL length (they come that way by default).

 

I initially adjusted the pinion angle to 1d using only the Upper Control Arm (set in the "upper" hole, of the 2 holes provided) but that put the 51-1/2" PST driveshaft in a bind which created a noise that sounded like a bad rear end gear noise. I measured the distance between the transmission flange and the pinon flange and it was 51", one-half inch shorter than the DS is. To remedy the situation I moved the complete rear axle back in the car by turning the LCA's and the UCA "out" 5-turns each. That ended up moving the rear axle back real close to 1/2" (I measured the flange/flange again after adjusting the UCA/LCA's and it was in fact, 51-1/2" exactly). Then I took the car out for another road test and that took care of the "gear noise" I had (and it was BAD). I knew it was either the driveshaft binding or the FRPP Axle Girdle I put on the car because those were the only two things "gear related" that I did to the car. My first guess was right (DS was too long and binding).

 

I can't say what the pinion angle would be if you used your OEM 2-pc DS but if you use a 1-pc DS, you *will* need AT LEAST a adjustable UCA/Thrid Link to adjust the pinion angle with. Having said that, since I put all solid bushings on the rear control arms I needed to get closer to 1 degree rather than the 4 degrees I'd use if I had all rubber (i.e. "stock") bushings in the control arms. That and the fact that I wanted the axle torque to LIFT the body on launch (which is why I put the front UCA connection in the upper of the two holes) probably played a big part in my need to have my pinion angle adjusted so dramatically (6 degrees, from 7d to 1d).

 

If you were to run the stock LCA's and UCA (or a Roush anti-hop UCA w/rubber bushings) and the OE (or AM) 2-pc driveshaft, you most likely would NOT need to ajust the pinion angle as much as I found necessary.

 

Oh, and for anyone wanting to get a PST Carbon Fiber DS, 51-1/2 inches is 1/2 inch too long IF you're going to use a FRPP FR3 Handling Pack on a 2010 GT500 (I can not speak for any other year as the '11+L uses a different UCA as does a '09+E). With stock length LCA's and the 1-pc DS, I found that I needed to turn the pinion nose UP so much that it shortened the distance between trans/pinion flanges.

 

For the OP: Do yourself a favor and buy a adjustable pahnard bar along with your FR3 kit. I bought my FR3 kit from Tousley Ford. They give SVTperformance.com forum members (just say you are, or go and subscribe) a discount of COST+10%, or COST+$200, WHICHEVER IS LESS (plus they offer free shipping if your TOTAL order is $1600 or more and no sales tax unless you live in MI, or CA if you buy a Whipple). If I remember correctly, FRPP also sells a adjustable panhard bar for the FR500CJ (Cobra Jet) so you might be able to combine it with the FR3 kit and a few other goodies (to bring the price up to $1600+) and kill 3 birds with on rock and get it shipped to you for free (it's 200 lbs. on a pallet so it MUST be trucked to you..i.e. shipping it ain't cheap).

 

I bought the Shelby (BMR?) adjustable panhard bar and panhard bar/body brace to keep with the theme of the car (Shelby/BMR K-member, A-arms, A-arm brace & DS loop) but ANY adjustable pahnard bar will work for you. So if you're on a budget (I am *extremely* fortunate not to be on one) then look around and price shop. I am NOT suggesting that you buy the cheapest one you can find, I'm suggesting you find the BEST VALUE (i.e. the best part at the best price).

 

FWIW, I LOVE my FR3 handling pack. At first I was worried that it wouldn't drop the car low enough (I started second guessing my self thinking I should'a bought the Shelby Eibach kit). Then when I put the kit on and set the car down on my (4) ramps it looked pretty good. Then I dropped it onto the ground and thought "OH FUG! That sucker is LOW! I didn't think I'd be able to get it out of my driveway due to our curbs. That ended up being a non-issue and now that I'm getting used to the height, I LOVE the stance. It looks FIERCE!!! I put a set of Roush side splitters on the car and it looks even lower than it did (although in reality, it's only about 1/4" lower on the sides). Handling? PFFFFFFFTTTTT! She's on rails.

 

I did the initial alignment using a set of turn plates, a digital level, a plumb bob and a string. I don't have a Caster gauge and she wants to pull/drift slightly to the left so I know I have the Caster split way off (I also put a set of Shelby/MM Caster/Camber adjuster plates on the front). The Camber is at just over 1d on each side (Lt: 1.2* / Rt: 1.4*) with the toe set at MAYBE 1/16" toe-in (about the width of 1 string) so I'm close enough on the Camber & Toe to get a feel for how she'll handle after I get her aligned on a good 4 wheel alignment machine (IF I can find a good tech that knows how to use one). I was worried it might be too stiff....not a issue. I was worried it would be too high...not a issue. I was worried about road noise/NVH...not a issue.

 

I don't have ANYTHING bad to say about it and I have lots of good to say about it. And I'm a super picky, anal sumbitch (and a perfectionist).

 

I *highly* recommend the FR3 Handling Pack to anyone thinking about a complete "package", because THAT is what it is.

 

The Shocks and Struts are Dynamic Suspension made by (or for?) Tokico, the Swaybars are Eibach and I don't know who makes the springs (I suspect Eibach) but the individual components are all designed to complement each other and hence, the "complete package" statement. If you "build your own" kit by mix-matching parts you're guessing at best unless you really really REALLY know suspensions (like the FRPP/SVT and Roush Engineers do).

 

And all that for $1300 (Tousley's price).

 

 

HTH,

Phill Pollard

[4KINGS]

I have the FR3 waiting for me to get to it and was also worried about the panhard bar. Thanks for clearing it up for me. I should have allready ordered it but i will now. Knowing that now i think they should have put that in the kit, then it would really be complete. thanks again

[2010KonaBlueGT]

 

Re: Panhard bar: Knowing that now i think they should have put that in the kit, then it would really be complete.

 

 

I completely agree, it SHOULD be part of the kit as it is definitely REQUIRED.

 

I was very surprised at how much my left wheel stuck out when all was said and done. I had the Shelby panhard bar adjusted to stock length (they come that way) and I've seen other people say their rear end shifted "a little" when they put their FR3 in. Maybe it's just the '10 and newer cars but mine was a FULL inch to the left and it was VERY obvious. I don't think anyone would have looked at it and said "your rear axle is a LITTLE to the left"...It was WAYYYYY to the left.

 

Oh, and I *did* measure it before installing the FR3 kit. It was about as close to center as can be expected (as the rear shifts with ride height) on a stock car.

 

Thankfully, it's very easy to adjust if you have the adjustable panhard bar and I did think ahead...."just in case".

 

 

Phill

[Stockpat]

Thanks a lot for the responses. I had assumed there were a few more pieces to make the kit complete from my reading, but second guessed myself when the parts weren't listed as "people who bought this also bought these..." on the website. I was worried the drop wouldn't be enough compared to Eibach also, so I'm glad to hear you were happy. I didn't want to lower the car and have it not look lowered. Thanks again.

 

Patrick

[Wingrider]

Question is- SVPP vs FR3. For 2011 owners it would be a bummer to get the FR3 and realize you pretty much had the same bits except for the adjustable shocks/struts.

[2010KonaBlueGT]

Question is- SVPP vs FR3. For 2011 owners it would be a bummer to get the FR3 and realize you pretty much had the same bits except for the adjustable shocks/struts.

 

 

Well considering that the SVT Perf. Pack front struts are the same struts that come on the "base" 2011 GT500, I doubt very much that the above statement would be a issue. Note the spec sheet for a 2011 SVTPP car where it says "Unique Rear Shocks"....but says nothing about the front struts!

 

The FRPP front swaybar also has 3 settings (inner, middle and outer) which allows you to adjust for under/over steer so you also have that going for you with a FR3 vs a SVTPP. I also found out that the FR3 Swaybars are Eibach units (it says so in the installation instruction sheet) and from what I know, SVT doesn't use 3rd party items for their parts. SVT is Ford Motor Company/FoMoCo where Ford Racing Performance Products clearly states that they are NOT Ford Motor Company parts and in fact area "Aftermarket Parts" (see the FRPP WWW site for that infomation).

 

If you can find the SVT PP swaybar diameters you can easily compare them against the FRPP FR3/Eibach swaybars and that would tell you if they are different, without any question (a larger diameter bar = more stiff, smaller dia bar = less stiff).

 

The rear shocks are also (Dynamic Suspension) Tokico units with the ability to adjust the compression/rebound setting on them. Again, since SVT is a Ford Mo. Co. product, I doubt they use Tokico for their shock supplier and even if they do, they don't afford you the ability to adjust the dampening for different road/track conditions (and/or comfort on the street). With the SVTPP shocks, what you got is what you get.

 

The FRPP FR3 kit also lowers the car considerably more than the SVT Perf. Package does (Rear: 1.50", Front: 1.25") so the springs are *obviously* different units. The rear springs are also progressive wound springs which I don't *think* (meaning I don't *know) the SVTPP springs are (i.e. progressive).

 

The part I really don't understand about the 2011 FR3 kit is that they do NOT supply you with a Strut Tower Brace but instead give you the FRPP Jounce Bumpers and the FRPP "high durometer" top strut mounts. But (according to the application description on the FRPP site) the 2010 already has the high duro strut mounts on them from the factory. And when I compared the 2010 OEM jounce bumpers to the FRPP jounce bumpers....they appear to be EXACT duplicates of each other. I don't have my durometer gauge anymore (sold it when we quit racing) but they feel the same using the fingernail test, look the same using the eyeball test, are both exactly the same color, etc....My suspicion is that they threw the bumpers and strut mounts in to the 2011 kit to pacify the customers who will want to know why they are paying more for a kit that consists of less.

 

Frankly, I'd rather have a STB than a set of $20 jounce bumpers and a pair of upper strut mounts...Especially since I put adjustable Caster/Camber plates on my car and wouldn't use the new strut mounts anyway.

 

No, my bet is that the FRPP FR3 kit is *considerably* different than the SVTPP kit. Well, OTHER THAN THE WHEELS & TIRES (and the rear end gear (3.73:1 vs. 3.55:1) which really only compensates for the higher final gear ratio created by the larger dia. SVTPP rear tires).

 

But hey....whatever <?shrug?>. To each his own.

 

 

Phill Pollard

2010 GT500 w/FR3 Handling Package

[Wingrider]

Thank you for the detailed reply Phil. I didn't know the FR3 was a rolled up package of 3rd party kit. I made the mistake of thinking it was scavenged together out of the FRPP parts bins- a la where the SVPP stuff came from.

 

So this begs the question of this config vs coil overs- not counting the sway bar(s).

[VanCamp53]

Per the FRPP website ...

 

The FR3SVT handling package is designed to fit the 2007 - 2009 GT500 and WILL NOT fit the 2010 GT500.

 

Hence the additional issues encountered on the 2010.

[2010KonaBlueGT]

Per the FRPP website ...

The FR3SVT handling package is designed to fit the 2007 - 2009 GT500 and WILL NOT fit the 2010 GT500.

Hence the additional issues encountered on the 2010.

 

 

Not entirely true, at least not if you use the CORRECT FR3 kit for the year model of your car.

 

You are only looking at the M-2007-FR3SVT package which is indeed, exclusive to the 2005-2009 Mustang and SVT Mustang and not interchanable with the 2010 or 2011/12 Mustang & SVT Mustang.

 

For the 2010 model year, you need a M-FR3-MSVT (remove the 2007 designation from the P/N) handling package.

 

There is a differene between the two FR3 kits (three, total). The latter (M-FR3-MSVT) is exclusively for the 2010 GT500.

 

The reason the early version isn't compatible is due to the Strut Tower Brace. The early version is totally different from the 2010 version which has a strange looking, double tube STB with a flat plate in the center of it attaching the two tubes together.

 

Then for 2011 and newer they have another FR3 kit (P/N: M-FR3-MSVTA) that is basically the same kit as the '07-'09 kit and the 2010 kit, but deletes the 2010's double bar STB and replaces it with high durometer upper strut mounts and a set of FRPP/FR3 Jounce bumpers.

 

Go to the 2010 section of the Ford Racing section and you'll see the FR3 kit I have, application for the 2010 MY and it shows the STB I write of.

 

If you go to the "Handling Packs" section it shows the three differnt part numbers and kits for the three different "era" cars.

 

 

I hope that clears up the confusion,

Phill

[HGT500H]

 

 

I just installed the FR3 handling pack on my 2010 GT500. I bought the Shelby (BMR?) adjustable panhard bar ahead of time anticipating the need to relocate the rear axle over *slightly*.

 

When I finally got all of the parts in and got the complete kit installed I dropped the car to the floor and it was VERY obvious that my rear axle was off center. It was one full inch off-set to the left. The left/drivers side wheel was sticking outside of the wheelwell lip by one inch and my right/pass side was inset by the same one inch. I'm really glad I bought the adjustable pahnard bar ahead of time.

 

I used a plumb bob & string to center the rear axle in the body. When I was finished, both of my rear tires ended up being perfectly aligned with the outermost fender/wheel well lip. I have a set of 18" KR Alcoa Dura-Bright wheels & winged foot F1 "Supercar" KR tires on my car but I don't think they are any wider than my OEM 19" F1 Supercar tires.

 

I also have a set of Roush adjustable Lower Control Arms (i.e. Trailing Arms), a Roush Upper Control Arm (i.e. Third Link) and a Roush adjustable Third Link/LCA bracket. I put a PST 1-pc Carbon Fiber Driveshaft in the car at the same time I put the FR3 kit in. When I set the car down and loaded the suspension my pinion angle was at 7 degrees and that was with all of the Roush control arms adjusted to the ORIGINAL length (they come that way by default).

 

I initially adjusted the pinion angle to 1d using only the Upper Control Arm (set in the "upper" hole, of the 2 holes provided) but that put the 51-1/2" PST driveshaft in a bind which created a noise that sounded like a bad rear end gear noise. I measured the distance between the transmission flange and the pinon flange and it was 51", one-half inch shorter than the DS is. To remedy the situation I moved the complete rear axle back in the car by turning the LCA's and the UCA "out" 5-turns each. That ended up moving the rear axle back real close to 1/2" (I measured the flange/flange again after adjusting the UCA/LCA's and it was in fact, 51-1/2" exactly). Then I took the car out for another road test and that took care of the "gear noise" I had (and it was BAD). I knew it was either the driveshaft binding or the FRPP Axle Girdle I put on the car because those were the only two things "gear related" that I did to the car. My first guess was right (DS was too long and binding).

 

I can't say what the pinion angle would be if you used your OEM 2-pc DS but if you use a 1-pc DS, you *will* need AT LEAST a adjustable UCA/Thrid Link to adjust the pinion angle with. Having said that, since I put all solid bushings on the rear control arms I needed to get closer to 1 degree rather than the 4 degrees I'd use if I had all rubber (i.e. "stock") bushings in the control arms. That and the fact that I wanted the axle torque to LIFT the body on launch (which is why I put the front UCA connection in the upper of the two holes) probably played a big part in my need to have my pinion angle adjusted so dramatically (6 degrees, from 7d to 1d).

 

If you were to run the stock LCA's and UCA (or a Roush anti-hop UCA w/rubber bushings) and the OE (or AM) 2-pc driveshaft, you most likely would NOT need to ajust the pinion angle as much as I found necessary.

 

Oh, and for anyone wanting to get a PST Carbon Fiber DS, 51-1/2 inches is 1/2 inch too long IF you're going to use a FRPP FR3 Handling Pack on a 2010 GT500 (I can not speak for any other year as the '11+L uses a different UCA as does a '09+E). With stock length LCA's and the 1-pc DS, I found that I needed to turn the pinion nose UP so much that it shortened the distance between trans/pinion flanges.

 

For the OP: Do yourself a favor and buy a adjustable pahnard bar along with your FR3 kit. I bought my FR3 kit from Tousley Ford. They give SVTperformance.com forum members (just say you are, or go and subscribe) a discount of COST+10%, or COST+$200, WHICHEVER IS LESS (plus they offer free shipping if your TOTAL order is $1600 or more and no sales tax unless you live in MI, or CA if you buy a Whipple). If I remember correctly, FRPP also sells a adjustable panhard bar for the FR500CJ (Cobra Jet) so you might be able to combine it with the FR3 kit and a few other goodies (to bring the price up to $1600+) and kill 3 birds with on rock and get it shipped to you for free (it's 200 lbs. on a pallet so it MUST be trucked to you..i.e. shipping it ain't cheap).

 

I bought the Shelby (BMR?) adjustable panhard bar and panhard bar/body brace to keep with the theme of the car (Shelby/BMR K-member, A-arms, A-arm brace & DS loop) but ANY adjustable pahnard bar will work for you. So if you're on a budget (I am *extremely* fortunate not to be on one) then look around and price shop. I am NOT suggesting that you buy the cheapest one you can find, I'm suggesting you find the BEST VALUE (i.e. the best part at the best price).

 

FWIW, I LOVE my FR3 handling pack. At first I was worried that it wouldn't drop the car low enough (I started second guessing my self thinking I should'a bought the Shelby Eibach kit). Then when I put the kit on and set the car down on my (4) ramps it looked pretty good. Then I dropped it onto the ground and thought "OH FUG! That sucker is LOW! I didn't think I'd be able to get it out of my driveway due to our curbs. That ended up being a non-issue and now that I'm getting used to the height, I LOVE the stance. It looks FIERCE!!! I put a set of Roush side splitters on the car and it looks even lower than it did (although in reality, it's only about 1/4" lower on the sides). Handling? PFFFFFFFTTTTT! She's on rails.

 

I did the initial alignment using a set of turn plates, a digital level, a plumb bob and a string. I don't have a Caster gauge and she wants to pull/drift slightly to the left so I know I have the Caster split way off (I also put a set of Shelby/MM Caster/Camber adjuster plates on the front). The Camber is at just over 1d on each side (Lt: 1.2* / Rt: 1.4*) with the toe set at MAYBE 1/16" toe-in (about the width of 1 string) so I'm close enough on the Camber & Toe to get a feel for how she'll handle after I get her aligned on a good 4 wheel alignment machine (IF I can find a good tech that knows how to use one). I was worried it might be too stiff....not a issue. I was worried it would be too high...not a issue. I was worried about road noise/NVH...not a issue.

 

I don't have ANYTHING bad to say about it and I have lots of good to say about it. And I'm a super picky, anal sumbitch (and a perfectionist).

 

I *highly* recommend the FR3 Handling Pack to anyone thinking about a complete "package", because THAT is what it is.

 

The Shocks and Struts are Dynamic Suspension made by (or for?) Tokico, the Swaybars are Eibach and I don't know who makes the springs (I suspect Eibach) but the individual components are all designed to complement each other and hence, the "complete package" statement. If you "build your own" kit by mix-matching parts you're guessing at best unless you really really REALLY know suspensions (like the FRPP/SVT and Roush Engineers do).

 

And all that for $1300 (Tousley's price).

 

 

HTH,

Phill Pollard

 

[Jadavis525]

 

 

Not entirely true, at least not if you use the CORRECT FR3 kit for the year model of your car.

 

You are only looking at the M-2007-FR3SVT package which is indeed, exclusive to the 2005-2009 Mustang and SVT Mustang and not interchanable with the 2010 or 2011/12 Mustang & SVT Mustang.

 

For the 2010 model year, you need a M-FR3-MSVT (remove the 2007 designation from the P/N) handling package.

 

There is a differene between the two FR3 kits (three, total). The latter (M-FR3-MSVT) is exclusively for the 2010 GT500.

 

The reason the early version isn't compatible is due to the Strut Tower Brace. The early version is totally different from the 2010 version which has a strange looking, double tube STB with a flat plate in the center of it attaching the two tubes together.

 

Then for 2011 and newer they have another FR3 kit (P/N: M-FR3-MSVTA) that is basically the same kit as the '07-'09 kit and the 2010 kit, but deletes the 2010's double bar STB and replaces it with high durometer upper strut mounts and a set of FRPP/FR3 Jounce bumpers.

 

Go to the 2010 section of the Ford Racing section and you'll see the FR3 kit I have, application for the 2010 MY and it shows the STB I write of.

 

If you go to the "Handling Packs" section it shows the three differnt part numbers and kits for the three different "era" cars.

 

 

I hope that clears up the confusion,

Phill

 

 

Phill-

 

I talked to you on another thread and have continued reading everyones input. You seem very well versed in these suspension packages. So here is my hopefully final questions to you lol before I make a decision. I have a 2012 and am looking at the Eibach Pro Plus Suspension Kit and the FR3 setup we discussed before. Reading this forum on top of either kit I will need an Adjustable Pan Hard Bar. Of the two kits which is best fit for my 2012 and what PHB would you recommend for either kit. This should clear up all my questions. My suspension is all stock currently. One of these kits and other necessary parts (PHB ETC.) for balance will be the only thing I'll do to it. So what do you think?

 

J