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4.6L vs. 5.0L Block


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I did ask them all at Brenspeed. I was on the phone for over an hour with Doug there. He was very helpful with explaining a lot of options for me. He said that thier 302 block is the FR Aluminator block and they just put some of the same internal parts in it that Saleen used in the S281 Extreme engine. He said that the swap of the stock block to the 302 block only was a test that they haven't done. He asked every other tech in the shop if they knew what the extra HP would be but noone knew for sure. Their best guess was about 25-30 but not certain. The more I think about it, the more I want to know. I want to keep my car N/A for a while longer I think and still add some power. My thoughts are to swap the block to their 302 and add their Detroit Rocker N/A cams and have an engine ready for big HP in the future. I realize this is spending a lot of money for not a lot of HP but if I do this, then I know at least the engine will be ok for well over 600 HP when I get a chance for a big blower.

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This might be a very off-the-wall question, but why in the world would you want to keep the car N/A when your going to spend almost as much or more money and have 1/2 the "available" HP and driveability? I just don't understand it, please explain.

Thanks-

 

 

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Ahhhh, I understand a lil' better now... Just because the blocks are the same doesn't mean the displacement is, the FRPP aluminator short block is still 4.6L, brenspeed is getting 5.0L by stroking it with the saleen rotating assembly then rather than having a larger bore block.

 

You will have more than the cost of a new whipple in the engine and install if you arent' installing yourself... IMO get the blower and enjoy, odds are in your favor that the stocker will hold if you are reasonable with the boost!

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lol! i knew this was going to come up... I just like having a N/A car right now. My long term goal is to have 600+ at the wheels so i will need stronger internals anyway. I also like the idea of having less to worry about with the SC. I know that it is the most economical way to gain HP. I guess I also don't like the idea that with a SC the amount of power you actually have isn't consistent due to heat soak and it being more sensitive to the ambient temperature. I don't really know exactly. I've been throwing a lot of ideas off the wall. I'm down to just about the last thing that I'm willling to do before a SC which is cams. I guess if i'm going to spend money on a bigger block i might as well just build a whole engine from scratch and do a complete swap when I get it all done. I have no idea... I also know how compulsive I get with things like this so If I go with the SC, then I'm going to get into all of the Shelby extreme duty cooling parts and end up spending another couple thousand. I feel like I'm spinning in circles trying to answer your question. I just have a lot of ideas and wondered what it would be.

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jmn, what do you consider "reasonable"? the guys at Brenspeed said that most of the time they don't like to push the stock engine over 500 HP at the wheels. I have 315 at the wheels now, and I know I can pick up about 30 with the cams, but I would hope after that with a SC I could be around 525-550 at the wheels.

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lol! i knew this was going to come up... I just like having a N/A car right now. My long term goal is to have 600+ at the wheels so i will need stronger internals anyway. I also like the idea of having less to worry about with the SC. I know that it is the most economical way to gain HP. I guess I also don't like the idea that with a SC the amount of power you actually have isn't consistent due to heat soak and it being more sensitive to the ambient temperature. I don't really know exactly. I've been throwing a lot of ideas off the wall. I'm down to just about the last thing that I'm willling to do before a SC which is cams. I guess if i'm going to spend money on a bigger block i might as well just build a whole engine from scratch and do a complete swap when I get it all done. I have no idea... I also know how compulsive I get with things like this so If I go with the SC, then I'm going to get into all of the Shelby extreme duty cooling parts and end up spending another couple thousand. I feel like I'm spinning in circles trying to answer your question. I just have a lot of ideas and wondered what it would be.

 

 

 

 

I love your answer, your are a very truthful and forthright person. I floated this idea back and forth myself, if you remember ALL my posts. I then ran the numbers, no way on GODS green earth could I get more HP to the RW and great driveabilty than with a Whipple or like/kind SC. So that is where I went. However everybodys situation is different in what they'll tolerate so either way it is all good.

 

Dave

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Yes, 500 rwhp or less is reasonable IMO. LOTS of people have LOTS of miles on 3.25" pullied HO whipples pushing from 480 to 520 at the wheels on the frpp tune. Obviously things can break anytime, but I've done a LOT of searching because I'm just that way, and I'm hard pressed to find people with sad stories running this setup. Buy the blower and enjoy the hell out of it while saving for the short block. THEN turn up the boost!

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this makes me laugh thinking about how I'm considering spending 9K on a block and cams (includes all parts/labor) for about 60HP at the wheels vs around 8K for possible 225HP or so. I'm almost sure that when I make up my mind I'll do the reasonable thing and get the big Kenne Bell SC and the Brenspeed cams. It really is the only sensible idea I have. LOL after that 8-9 grand, there goes another $2700 for the Griggs rear end kit and another $2500 or so on extreme duty radiator, heat exchanger, and coolant tanks! I should just map out the next 3 years of mods and where my money is going. I could probably ramble on and on forever with all the things i'm thinking about this. thanks for the comments!

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this makes me laugh thinking about how I'm considering spending 9K on a block and cams (includes all parts/labor) for about 60HP at the wheels vs around 8K for possible 225HP or so. I'm almost sure that when I make up my mind I'll do the reasonable thing and get the big Kenne Bell SC and the Brenspeed cams. It really is the only sensible idea I have. LOL after that 8-9 grand, there goes another $2700 for the Griggs rear end kit and another $2500 or so on extreme duty radiator, heat exchanger, and coolant tanks! I should just map out the next 3 years of mods and where my money is going. I could probably ramble on and on forever with all the things i'm thinking about this. thanks for the comments!

 

 

;)

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You used the aluminator, correct? Are you pointing to JDM because you think that's a better value or because it's stroked to 302 as an option? The parts list on JDM seems to be top notch....

 

 

yes, I used the FR Aluminator with stock CR. I wanted to stay with a 4.6 build this time. It's a very good SB for the money. If I was going to build a stroker I would either stroke the stock SB with Mike at L&M or buy the JDM 302 SB.

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  • 1 month later...

Why not punch your stock block out .010-.020 and throw a stroker at it? You'll end up with 5.0-5.1 liters of fury and the extra stroke will yield a good chunk of extra torque. You'll also save some dough on the block itself.

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to the op. theres nothing wrong with wanting to stay N/A..... the rule of thump for strokers is you can count on a minimum of 1 hp per cubic inch gained. i looked at this route a while back and as far as hp gains its not worth it unless you change other things as well. new heads increased comrpession and cams can add up to some BIG gains in hp.

 

im about to start a max effort NA build thatll be 288 cubic inches the increase is due to the block being punched .020 over(its a seasoned teksid) you can see some good hp for na if you push it and its a good route for road race cars. when my motors done i expect 480-520 hp. big cams, high compression and high revs add up pretty fast.

 

there are some people that prefer to rock it old school over anything else. having NA power on tap all the time is extremely enjoyable. every one knows more power can be had easier on boost. but to some its all about NA

 

no boost, no nitrous, ALL N/Asty

 

 

as a side note if ay one has a set of stock unmolested 3v heads let me know... im looking for a set.

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to the op. theres nothing wrong with wanting to stay N/A..... the rule of thump for strokers is you can count on a minimum of 1 hp per cubic inch gained. i looked at this route a while back and as far as hp gains its not worth it unless you change other things as well. new heads increased comrpession and cams can add up to some BIG gains in hp.

 

im about to start a max effort NA build thatll be 288 cubic inches the increase is due to the block being punched .020 over(its a seasoned teksid) you can see some good hp for na if you push it and its a good route for road race cars. when my motors done i expect 480-520 hp. big cams, high compression and high revs add up pretty fast.

 

there are some people that prefer to rock it old school over anything else. having NA power on tap all the time is extremely enjoyable. every one knows more power can be had easier on boost. but to some its all about NA

 

no boost, no nitrous, ALL N/Asty

 

 

as a side note if ay one has a set of stock unmolested 3v heads let me know... im looking for a set.

 

 

 

check out the forsale forum on the S197 site. You should find some 3v heads.

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to the op. theres nothing wrong with wanting to stay N/A..... the rule of thump for strokers is you can count on a minimum of 1 hp per cubic inch gained. i looked at this route a while back and as far as hp gains its not worth it unless you change other things as well. new heads increased comrpession and cams can add up to some BIG gains in hp.

 

im about to start a max effort NA build thatll be 288 cubic inches the increase is due to the block being punched .020 over(its a seasoned teksid) you can see some good hp for na if you push it and its a good route for road race cars. when my motors done i expect 480-520 hp. big cams, high compression and high revs add up pretty fast.

 

there are some people that prefer to rock it old school over anything else. having NA power on tap all the time is extremely enjoyable. every one knows more power can be had easier on boost. but to some its all about NA

 

no boost, no nitrous, ALL N/Asty

 

 

as a side note if ay one has a set of stock unmolested 3v heads let me know... im looking for a set.

 

 

 

I would say the SC power is on tap all the time with virtually no delay to 450+rwtq.... :)

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