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Possibly Stupid question of the day... down shifting.


07SGT5687

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So here goes possible the stupid question of the day. I've always had manuals... and I've always for some reason had this weird aversion to using my brakes. I VERY often use downshifting to slow in traffic. I obviously I USE the brakes, but I find my self more often than not, grabbing a low gear, even for a second, to slow the vehicle instead of brakes... There is probably a couple of reasons, but I think it's better in traffic for 'slowing' so you don't get that robotic cascade of people braking behind you... not because they have to, but because their brain sees red and they just do it. My little contribution to keeping traffic flowing (dumb, I know). And I once had a Z34 that I had to put brakes on about ever 3 months... and I just like doing it. Anyway....

 

That said... last night I'm giving a buddy a ride. He has done some road racing, has ownered performance vehicles... and he says... why do you do that?! That's is NOT GOOD at ALL on your tranny! My immediate thought was I've ALWAYS done this and never (knock on wood) had tranny issues... and granted at the track I would surely use the brakes as needed...

 

But it got me thinking... is that okay? Or is that really a bad thing? Please pardon if this is a totally stupid question. Anyone that knows me, knows I take the redline only as a suggestion... and I'm usually not afraid to get close to it downshifting, in a pinch. Thoughts?

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So here goes possible the stupid question of the day. I've always had manuals... and I've always for some reason had this weird aversion to using my brakes. I VERY often use downshifting to slow in traffic. I obviously I USE the brakes, but I find my self more often than not, grabbing a low gear, even for a second, to slow the vehicle instead of brakes... There is probably a couple of reasons, but I think it's better in traffic for 'slowing' so you don't get that robotic cascade of people braking behind you... not because they have to, but because their brain sees red and they just do it. My little contribution to keeping traffic flowing (dumb, I know). And I once had a Z34 that I had to put brakes on about ever 3 months... and I just like doing it. Anyway....

 

That said... last night I'm giving a buddy a ride. He has done some road racing, has ownered performance vehicles... and he says... why do you do that?! That's is NOT GOOD at ALL on your tranny! My immediate thought was I've ALWAYS done this and never (knock on wood) had tranny issues... and granted at the track I would surely use the brakes as needed...

 

But it got me thinking... is that okay? Or is that really a bad thing? Please pardon if this is a totally stupid question. Anyone that knows me, knows I take the redline only as a suggestion... and I'm usually not afraid to get close to it downshifting, in a pinch. Thoughts?

 

 

I look at it as "It's Cheaper to replace Brake Pads then is a Clutch". "It's Cheaper to rebuild your Brakes then it is your Transmission". Easier to. If you replace your Brake Pads every 6 Months, well before you get close to the Rivits, You wont have to turn your Rotors and you can do it in less the 2 Hours. Use Semi-Metallic Pads, seat them, and even if you do this 5 Times, it's still cheaper then replacing a Clutch Assy. Just my thoughts.

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I have been driving cars with standard transmissions for 45 years and ALWAYS down shifted. I never had a problem with my tranny. Don't race car drivers driving on a track downshift when coming into a turn, then upshift after?

 

 

I think if you check some owner's manuals you will see that they recommend down shifting. I even do it when driving my wife's automatic when going down hills, no problems.

 

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If your matching the RPM's I don't see a big problem, you're putting a strain on the "other" side of the tooth, can't be any worse than going up through the gears.

The rev limiter only works with the throttle not on a down shift so you could over rev it that way.

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you're putting a strain on the "other" side of the tooth, can't be any worse than going up through the gears.

 

 

The rev limiter only works with the throttle not on a down shift so you could over rev it that way.

 

 

Both interesting points. Particularly the rev limiter part. I'll definitely keep that in mind.

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David hit the nail on the head. What would you rather replace, your clutch, pressure plate and t/o bearing or a simple set of front brake pads?

 

No doubt its fun downshifting, and at times it would be safer depending on road conditions, but you will certainly increase your transmissions life by using the brakes.

 

Steve

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I always down shifted & had 3-4 spds & never had a problem but if your worried about it I have a way of saving your brakes ,tranny, clutch & rear end don`t drive it.

 

 

If you don't sit in the seats you will not wear out the seats.

 

If you drive your car you will have to fix and maintain it. if you never drive your car you will have to fix and maintain it; seals will dry out and so on. Its a car it will need to be fixed . Drive it how you like and enjoy it. I am sure banging gears on the race track will wear out more stuff than a few down shifts.

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Doug hit the nail on the head!

 

Without a doubt...match the RPM's. If you do that, it's harmless! I do it as well, primarily to hear the exhaust as I approach a stop!! :happy feet:

 

Not to mention...everyone else hears it too!

 

 

 

Exactly! Nothing like the tone of the exhaust when you downshift! :shift:

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I've driven many manuals over the years and have always downshifted approaching a stop sign, street corner, slower traffic, etc.. I've worn out hundreds of sets of brakes, but not one clutch or transmission yet.........

 

When I taught my sons to drive a manual (a lost art, I'm coming to believe) my youngest worried over my shifting down through every gear..."why not just wait and catch 2nd, dad?" Old habits are hard to break. Besides, I told him, that's the way Steve taught me to do it when I was an extra on the set of Bullitt.......while I was walking to school 3 miles, uphill both ways, in the snow year round.......

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I've driven many manuals over the years and have always downshifted approaching a stop sign, street corner, slower traffic, etc.. I've worn out hundreds of sets of brakes, but not one clutch or transmission yet.........

 

When I taught my sons to drive a manual (a lost art, I'm coming to believe) my youngest worried over my shifting down through every gear..."why not just wait and catch 2nd, dad?" Old habits are hard to break. Besides, I told him, that's the way Steve taught me to do it when I was an extra on the set of Bullitt.......while I was walking to school 3 miles, uphill both ways, in the snow year round.......

 

Hal, you forgot........barefoot!!! :hysterical:

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Those 360 slides are rough too...............not that I'd know.

 

 

Ah, actually, Dan, we prefer to call them 360 spins. I held in a slide just long enough to put flat spots on my tires but, in the end, I made my 360.:P

 

Jim

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So here goes possible the stupid question of the day. I've always had manuals... and I've always for some reason had this weird aversion to using my brakes. I VERY often use downshifting to slow in traffic. I obviously I USE the brakes, but I find my self more often than not, grabbing a low gear, even for a second, to slow the vehicle instead of brakes... There is probably a couple of reasons, but I think it's better in traffic for 'slowing' so you don't get that robotic cascade of people braking behind you... not because they have to, but because their brain sees red and they just do it. My little contribution to keeping traffic flowing (dumb, I know). And I once had a Z34 that I had to put brakes on about ever 3 months... and I just like doing it. Anyway....

 

That said... last night I'm giving a buddy a ride. He has done some road racing, has ownered performance vehicles... and he says... why do you do that?! That's is NOT GOOD at ALL on your tranny! My immediate thought was I've ALWAYS done this and never (knock on wood) had tranny issues... and granted at the track I would surely use the brakes as needed...

 

But it got me thinking... is that okay? Or is that really a bad thing? Please pardon if this is a totally stupid question. Anyone that knows me, knows I take the redline only as a suggestion... and I'm usually not afraid to get close to it downshifting, in a pinch. Thoughts?

 

 

Whether it's healthy for the transmission or not, engine braking on cars like ours is probably not a good idea. When you downshift you're expecting the engine to absorb the shock. Well, with high horsepower, high torque, high compression engines like these, it might not. Case in point is my Cobra. Downshifting from 3rd to 2nd at 35MPH to slow down in a turn is a guaranteed way to do one of those crazy maneuvers you see in the movies where the guy instantly turns around. Or you might do a whole 360*+ turn on wet pavement.

 

Downshifting a car like this requires RPM matching (raise the RPM on the engine before engaging the trans at the lower gear.) Heel-and-toe shifting is not all that easy (I tried it on my 5-speed SGT once, one of the only reasons I drove it at all) due to the fact that the pedal heights aren't optimized.

 

My advice: Transmission = go, brakes = slow. I have it on a sticky note on the Cobra windshield. :)

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Or you might do a whole 360*+ turn on wet pavement.

 

(raise the RPM on the engine before engaging the trans at the lower gear.)

 

 

I certainly don't do it when it's wet or slick, but thank you for the RPM matching definition... I did NOT know that and I will certainly do that from now on. :beerchug:

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Status quo it is! I do love me some downshifting.

 

follow up stupid question though... when you guys say "match RPMs"... you mean... ?

 

As my Daddy taught me it's called double-clutchin'.... When down shifting, You pull it out of the higher gear into neutral. let the clutch back out while it's in neutral and give it some throttle until the RPM's match what they would be if you were in the lower gear, and hold it there. Then you push the clutch in and down shift.

Basically lets say (I'm just making up numbers so it makes sense) 40 miles an hour in second gear = 3000 RPM, 40 miles an hour in third gear = 2000 RPM. So from 2000 RPM in third you go to neutral, rev it to 3000 RPM hold it and shift into second, when you let the clutch out there should be no jerking just a nice easy decline in RPM's. I hope this simple explaination made sense to ya.

If you ever shifted without a clutch both upshift and downshift you will have to match the RPM's so it won't grind. Believe it or not when I have the chance and nobody's around, I will practice shifting without the clutch just for fun, and practice. I already had the clutch return spring break on me in my '63 Fairlane and it came in handy!

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As my Daddy taught me it's called double-clutchin'.... When down shifting, You pull it out of the higher gear into neutral. let the clutch back out while it's in neutral and give it some throttle until the RPM's match what they would be if you were in the lower gear, and hold it there. Then you push the clutch in and down shift.

Basically lets say (I'm just making up numbers so it makes sense) 40 miles an hour in second gear = 3000 RPM, 40 miles an hour in third gear = 2000 RPM. So from 2000 RPM in third you go to neutral, rev it to 3000 RPM hold it and shift into second, when you let the clutch out there should be no jerking just a nice easy decline in RPM's. I hope this simple explaination made sense to ya.

If you ever shifted without a clutch both upshift and downshift you will have to match the RPM's so it won't grind. Believe it or not when I have the chance and nobody's around, I will practice shifting without the clutch just for fun, and practice. I already had the clutch return spring break on me in my '63 Fairlane and it came in handy!

 

 

 

 

 

+1 has anyone here never driven a truck (semi)

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I have always used the tranny to slow down as much as possible before using the brakes. headscratch.gif

 

Wonder if Scotty could chime in on this from a Ford engineer stand point. To me this entire thread is made up of a bunch of opinions. I wonder if in reality it is or isn't harmful.

 

 

 

Chris

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At this time, I would like to add that my 2007 GT500 with terrible clutch / flywheel TSB problems abounding, I have had NONE-O-THE ABOVE! And, I downshift consistently for sport and for braking purposes. My car has 4500 miles on it and has none of the symptoms. So I am driving it with RPM matching in mind and sensible clutch pedal travel / uptake with seemingly great success!

 

:happy feet:

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