Madlock Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I've read several published specifications stating a bona fide Torsen differential will be available for BOSS 302. While I think many have presumed GT500 will have it also, I haven't been able to find any reference to it in the 2012 Ordering Guide or any other available information. Does anybody know if 2012 GT500 will have a Torsen differential - either by default or as part of any option package? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGEMAN223 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I was wondering about that subject also, so I went to my dealer ship and got the invoice on my 12 GT500 and my car has svt package. I checked the axle it just saids limited slip 3.73diffrential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGEMAN223 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I wanted to add this if you serch at fordparts.com for 12 gt500 axle will give two options one is limited slip and other is torson locker I called svt and they did not know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted February 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I wanted to add this if you serch at fordparts.com for 12 gt500 axle will give two options one is limited slip and other is torson locker I called svt and they did not know. Not surprising they didn't know. The level of professional disinterest - or amount of information shared with those who are supposed to be front-line experts is appalling. Only dealers are generally less well-informed. I too had looked to fordparts.com for guidance - and saw what you observed too. But it's presented strangely. The standard replacement differential has a list price in the $500 range. The other part describes itself as an assembly that would include both 3.73 gearing AND Torsen - at more than twice the price, which would at least SEEM to be a standard 3.73 differential AND the Torsen unit as an adjunct. If it's being presented this way, I might presume the 2012 SVTPP would include a Torsen differential - whereas the baseline 2012 GT500 would be both 3.55 and a standard non-Torsen limited-slip differential. I wouldn't swear as much in court, and nothing whatsoever in any of the published information establishes this to be the case, but it would be the conclusion I'd make if a gun were pressed to my head. It's really a shame Ford doesn't offer some kind of "refresh package" that would bring previous model year vehicles up to the current. It could do so at HUGE profit - while not necessarily cutting into the number of year-to-year trader-uppers. It'd be a boon for Ford AND the service departments of dealers who'd profit from the additional work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulanzo Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Id pay for an upgrade kit as opposed to trading in my car. As my first, I plan to keep it forever...but I wouldn't mind having it not being outdated. What are the overall benefits of a Torsen diff over our current setup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrakRat Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Having a Torsen T2 in the Cobra I have to tell you it works great. I NEVER experience one tire fire on any surface or turn, therefore the rear end behavior is always consistent. It is durable and invisible as it is silent in operation and there are no clutches to wear out. I have experienced one wheel-itis in the GT500 several times and it is frustrating to expect the rear to step out under power but instead the inside tire goes up in smoke. Adding the Torsen to my 500 is high on my list for future mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWG223 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Id pay for an upgrade kit as opposed to trading in my car. As my first, I plan to keep it forever...but I wouldn't mind having it not being outdated. What are the overall benefits of a Torsen diff over our current setup? The current differential allows a 1-wheel peel if you really drive the car at a track with turns. Usually the inside tire will light up while the outside one does not. The Torsen is much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGEMAN223 Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 My last car was 08GT500 I installed the Detroit locker True Track and I was ok with the operation but if I had to do it over I think I will go with Torson. You can pick up True Track for around 450.00 that was the reason I went with it but if I had had to doit over I will go with torson. Part I did not like was had to set my back lash on my 3.73 small as possable. Torson will be more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted February 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Part I did not like was had to set my back lash on my 3.73 small as possable. Torson will be more On-air migraine? Translation please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted February 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 I have experienced one wheel-itis in the GT500 several times and it is frustrating to expect the rear to step out under power but instead the inside tire goes up in smoke. Having never driven using anything other than a good, old-fashioned LSD, perhaps you can help me better-understand my strictly-textbook sense of the benefit (or difference) a Torsen differential will provide over what exists - and whether or not I have a proper understanding. A traditional GT500 LSD will always send power to the wheel with the LEAST amount of traction - which is why it's damn near impossible to recover if the back-end ever breaks breaks loose and steps out at the same time, because all the power is bound to be sent to the inside wheel - which will probably start to spin itself into oblivion. Correct? A Torsen, instead will take the power that's normally sent to the wheel with the least amount of traction and transfers it to the wheel with the MOST traction instead. Torsen's site describes it as a friction "multiplier" - and is careful to point-out that if one rear wheel is spinning, it has no friction and the amount of power it can transfer will be zero (because zero multiplied by anything is always zero). So, it sounds like a Torsen will help tremendously to ensure the outside rear wheel always has the most power - EXCEPT AND UNLESS the inner wheel has come-off the ground altogether. In this situation, there'd be essentially no difference between a traditional LSD and a Torsen. Correct? Torsen speaks of a T-2R model that provides a minimal degree of friction to always have something to transfer - whether or not a model that's compatible with an 8.8" 31-spline axle exists, I don't know. If my understanding is correct, a T-2 could be a huge improvement - in almost every situation except an inner wheel coming off the ground - in which case it should be no different than what exists. A T-2R should make it terrific no matter what. Combined with a first-rate watts linkage, a T-2/R should really make the GT500 a track gem. Am I right in my conclusions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6-Speed Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Here's a good 5.0 article with some details of installing a Torsen in a 2008 GT500. Looks like a good mod. http://www.mustang50magazine.com/techarticles/m5lp_1011_project_vapor_trail_gear_swap/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted February 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Here's a good 5.0 article with some details of installing a Torsen in a 2008 GT500. Looks like a good mod. http://www.mustang50...swap/index.html Terrific read! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrakRat Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Having never driven using anything other than a good, old-fashioned LSD, perhaps you can help me better-understand my strictly-textbook sense of the benefit (or difference) a Torsen differential will provide over what exists - and whether or not I have a proper understanding. A traditional GT500 LSD will always send power to the wheel with the LEAST amount of traction - which is why it's damn near impossible to recover if the back-end ever breaks breaks loose and steps out at the same time, because all the power is bound to be sent to the inside wheel - which will probably start to spin itself into oblivion. Correct? A Torsen, instead will take the power that's normally sent to the wheel with the least amount of traction and transfers it to the wheel with the MOST traction instead. Torsen's site describes it as a friction "multiplier" - and is careful to point-out that if one rear wheel is spinning, it has no friction and the amount of power it can transfer will be zero (because zero multiplied by anything is always zero). So, it sounds like a Torsen will help tremendously to ensure the outside rear wheel always has the most power - EXCEPT AND UNLESS the inner wheel has come-off the ground altogether. In this situation, there'd be essentially no difference between a traditional LSD and a Torsen. Correct? Torsen speaks of a T-2R model that provides a minimal degree of friction to always have something to transfer - whether or not a model that's compatible with an 8.8" 31-spline axle exists, I don't know. If my understanding is correct, a T-2 could be a huge improvement - in almost every situation except an inner wheel coming off the ground - in which case it should be no different than what exists. A T-2R should make it terrific no matter what. Combined with a first-rate watts linkage, a T-2/R should really make the GT500 a track gem. Am I right in my conclusions? That pretty much is a good way of putting it. See, if your tire is off the ground, you probably aren't in a situation you want to be in anyway. The LSD is not capable of dealing with the difference in load due to the combination of power these cars have along with the large rear sway bar lifting more weight off the inside tire. This makes it difficult to use power to get the vehicle to rotate in a turn, and frustrating when trying to accelerate out of the turn and your 550 hp is going up in tire smoke instead of shoving you forward. A Torsen and a torque arm will dramatically increase rear bite, and unless you are in competition, you may never need a T2 R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tob Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 I completely rebuilt a gutted 8.8 housing for use in a built up '90 coupe a few years ago. I used Superior 31 spline axles, FRPP 3.73 gears, a new Torsen T2R, a sloid crush sleeve, yadda, yadda. The car itself has a MM torque arm & panhard bar, etc. It works flawlessly, regardless of road surface. If autocross, road racing, or simple street driving is what you'd be using it for - I'd give you my stamp of approval. However, if drag racing is something you like to do - I'd look elsewhere. I'm not convinced that the unit can handle repeated shock loads from the likes of a 4,000 pound pig pushing over 500+ rwhp. Caveat emptor. Tob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGEMAN223 Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 On-air migraine? Translation please. When I installed my True Track on my 3.31 factory gearset , backlash setting will chainge from 8thousands to 13thousands after driving for awhile when this happens you will hear a clunk when you are getting out of garage or from a stop at light to 1st gear. Backlash is the distance between pinion and ringear factory saids around 10 to 14thousands ok but I did not like too much anyway I ened up pulling out the oem pinion and ring gear with FR 3.73 with 8thousands backlash. Seems True Track has littlle internal play this compounds when you have more backlash . Problem went away with 3.73 gear with 8thousands backlash.Torson seems cost more then True Track. I think part of the problem with 3.31 factory gear is gear seems wear out easly because everytime open the back cover to chainge backlash setting I would find metal flakes in the oil. Did not help I had kenne bell 2.8 and smoke my tires every chance I have anyway. I am glad to see 3.73 from factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted February 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 I may have settled the debate over which-2012-car-comes-with-what-differential options after some lengthy discussions with Ford SVT - product AND tech AND Torsen. 2012 GT500 will have the standard LSD it's always had. The catalog listing for the GT500 3.73 differential assembly is meant for BOSS-302 Laguna Seca. If you want a T-2 for your GT500, you're going to have to put in in yourself, part M-4204-T31. However, if you want to go whole-hog, you can go with the T-2R for about $150 more, which is the differential used in the FR500S, part M-4204-T31H. However, Torsen DID make an interesting and unsolicited statement that its T-2 was tested to 2012 GT500 specifications. I hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shel-b001 Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 The 302S has the Torsen2 in it see this months Mustang Monthly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03 DSG Snake Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 The Torsen is a good road racing diff, but not the best for drag launches and burnout type driving. It makes sense to be an option for the BOSS. For the GT500, I'm not so sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrakRat Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 The Torsen is a good road racing diff, but not the best for drag launches and burnout type driving. It makes sense to be an option for the BOSS. For the GT500, I'm not so sure. I am. The stock lsd is worthless and the Torsen doesn't have paper thin clutches that wear out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I am. The stock lsd is worthless and the Torsen doesn't have paper thin clutches that wear out. Me too. And for an additional $150 or so to get a full-blown T-2R that's suitable for BOTH drag and track - with the same installation costs for either one, the T-2R is a no brainer, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03 DSG Snake Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=50_157 While it is ideal for street use, autocrossing, and road racing, the Torsen differential is not recommended for drag strip use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tob Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Me too. And for an additional $150 or so to get a full-blown T-2R that's suitable for BOTH drag and track - with the same installation costs for either one, the T-2R is a no brainer, IMO. How did you conclude that the Torsen is good for drag racing? http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=50_157 While it is ideal for street use, autocrossing, and road racing, the Torsen differential is not recommended for drag strip use. Thanks for providing the link. I mentioned my misgivings regarding the differential at hand in conjunction with repeated shock loads but apparently it fell on deaf ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 How did you conclude that the Torsen is good for drag racing? AFAIK, it's the differential being used in the Cobra Jet. Either way, the T2-R is a no-brainer choice given the nominal incremental cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tob Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 AFAIK, it's the differential being used in the Cobra Jet. Either way, the T2-R is a no-brainer choice given the nominal incremental cost. That'd be odd. Last time the Cobra Jet 9" assembly was available, it utilized a spool. http://www.blowbyracing.com/roracojet9re.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madlock Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 The back-end I've seen for the 2010 CJ Uses an 8.8" rear axle. Either way, as I wrote, the T2-R is a no brainer for the price delta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tob Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 The back-end I've seen for the 2010 CJ Uses an 8.8" rear axle. Either way, as I wrote, the T2-R is a no brainer for the price delta. I don't know what you mean by "back end" but every CJ that Ford has pumped out since '08 has used a 9" rear axle assembly that shares nothing with the 8.8" factory unit. And again, regardless of any "price delta" you'd be installing a unit that isn't designed for drag racing. It is a fantastic piece when used within the parameters it was designed for. There are better options out there when it comes to a heavy car with a lot of power that is likely to see a clutch dump or two. If it matters, this is the CJ rear axle (from here). http://mustangsdaily.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/M-4001-CJ.jpg The 2012 CJ continues to use the Strange 9" with spool, etc. I believe the only change to the axle was gear ratio. http://theblogofcars.com/2010/11/2012-ford-mustang-cobra-jet-specs-leaked/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrakRat Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 It is a fantastic piece when used within the parameters it was designed for. There are better options out there when it comes to a heavy car with a lot of power that is likely to see a clutch dump or two. Wellll, the same can be said about the LSD, the TR6060, the 20's, the G:2's, the LCA's, the UCA's.............................................. Mine will spend a lot of time on the track and never see the drag strip, so IMHO there isn't a better choice available for the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tob Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Same can be said about the LSD, the TR6060, the 20's, the G:2's, the LCA's, the UCA's.............................................. But we aren't really talking about the stock LSD, are we? And what transmission other than the 6060 bolts right in and offers better performance for the same cost? The G:2's? Have you seen Pobst's comments on them as to how well they work when heated (road course), as intended? And the LCA/UCA? I don't see a comparison, beyond needed adjustment and thus changing parts. The point is, there are plenty of differentials out there designed for different 8.8" applications. If you know you'll be using the differential for a "round" track application, you'll be happy, and I haven't argued to the contrary. But beware, not everyone has had good experiences with them. You'd be hard pressed to find two more successful guys than Strano or Schotz... http://forums.corral.net/forums/road-racing-auto-x/963036-torsen-t2r-problems.html http://mustangforums.com/forum/s197-handling-section/509323-choosing-a-differential.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrakRat Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 But we aren't really talking about the stock LSD, are we? And what transmission other than the 6060 bolts right in and offers better performance for the same cost? The G:2's? Have tot seen Pobst's comments on them as to how well they work when heated (road course), as intended? And the LCA/UCA? I don't see a comparison, beyond needed adjustment and thus changing parts. The point is, there are plenty of differentials out there designed for different 8.8" applications. If you know you'll be using the differential for a "round" track application, you'll be happy, and I haven't argued to the contrary. But beware, not everyone has had good experiences with them. You'd be hard pressed to find two more successful guys than Strano or Schotz... http://forums.corral.net/forums/road-racing-auto-x/963036-torsen-t2r-problems.html http://mustangforums.com/forum/s197-handling-section/509323-choosing-a-differential.html YOU mentioned that the Torsen is not suited to "clutch dumping". Have you not read other threads here?? Have you not read about the clutch issues with the 6060? The shifter that is like stirring oatmeal? The mega axle hop with the wet spaghetti noodles for control arms? The 20" rear tires canceling any benefit of going to 3.73? 285 width tires that can't hook? .... All things that don't go well with clutch dumping. Probst and Strano evaluate the car on its abilities on all levels (like the roadcourse) which is the whole point of the SVTPP, therefore a good match to the Torsen. Are you trying to tell me that they said the components that I had mentioned were perfect in all situations? Hrmmm. Maybe you can enlighten us as to what diff would be better in there that wouldn't significantly handicap the car's handling elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tob Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 YOU mentioned that the Torsen is not suited to "clutch dumping". And...? Have you not read other threads here?? Um....yeah... Have you not read about the clutch issues with the 6060? Yeah... The shifter that is like stirring oatmeal? Yeah... The mega axle hop with the wet spaghetti noodles for control arms? Hop - threads-O-plenty. Spaghetti noodles, no. Control arm bushing issues? Yes. The 20" rear tires canceling any benefit of going to 3.73? Yeah... 285 width tires that can't hook? Yeah... .... All things that don't go well with clutch dumping. Yeah... Probst and Strano evaluate the car on its abilities on all levels (like the roadcourse) which is the whole point of the SVTPP, therefore a good match to the Torsen. I mentioned Randy Pobst because he recently helped to compile test data via a comparison between a 2012 Nissan GT-R, 2011 Corvette Z06 and 2011 Shelby GT500. Since YOU brought up the tires (and implied that they were in some way inadequate) I mentioned that he didn't disapprove of them. His comment was "These Goodyears clearly needed to be warmed up. They did not have any stick at first. They turn "on" once warm though, and that took at least a good lap, which is almost like a race tire." The remainder of his comments can be seen here I'm missing the "whole point...therefore a good match" - conclusion, that you reach. It was stated earlier in the thread that the Torsen can be used in drag racing applications and implied that the CJ uses the Torsen. How many times now have I mentioned that two aren't a good match? Are you trying to tell me that they said the components that I had mentioned were perfect in all situations? Hrmmm. What the hell are you talking about and how did you reach that conclusion? Maybe you can enlighten us as to what diff would be better in there that wouldn't significantly handicap the car's handling elsewhere. Apparently, you don't need enlightening so much as simple reading comprehension. You've stated the direction you intend to go along with how you plan on using the car once changed - everyone here gets that. As for handicapping the car elsewhere, I've mentioned (how many times now?) that the Torsen isn't the best choice if you plan on any drag racing. Does having your cake and eating it too come to mind? There isn't a differential out there that is at the top of the list for any and every type of usage. And since the discussion at hand relates to our beloved blown 5.4 in an S197, the list narrows due to excessive weight and the rather extreme power level these cars produce. Since the premise of your last question only infers "handling" ("that wouldn't significantly handicap the car's handling elsewhere") I can see the T2 or T2R as entirely compatible (as you obviously can). Were your inquiry in any way related to shock loading (as I've mentioned before) I'd absolutely look elsewhere. Do I have a favorite? No. For an almost 4,000 lb car with power levels ranging anywhere from 500 rwhp to 800 rwhp, a manual transmission, sticky rubber, wider than stock wheels (all of which so many here have shown interest in) - it wouldn't be a Torsen type differential, especially when subjected to the types of abuse that so many here revel in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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