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CTS-V will not be the problem for us the ZL1 Camaro will


COBRA32

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Amazing. :censored: Speed is one thing magazines can't really lie about. There are too many publications testing cars. They can rate one car better than the other but they can't say the slower car is faster without the readers knowing its BS.

 

 

There is also something behind most of the GM hate that no one is mentioning but since everyone else is willing to ignore it ...

 

example of false performance time,is when they put a z06 up against the SHELBY KR,they got a 0-60 time of 4.9,and 12.8 in the 1/4mile time.its on youtube.the KR is much quicker than that.in fact the best time or i should say,one of the best times recorded for the KR was 11.9@120 on stock tires.so,there are magazines or testers that put out false times.when hennessey ran his camaro against a stock GT500 he used 98octane.

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Seriously......I absolutely love my car. I took it out the other day when it was 45*, laid a bunch of rubber just so I could giggle my ass off. Would I like wider rear tires?......yes. Am I going to widen my stock wheels to be able to do so?...yes. There are always faster cars, blah- fu&%in- blah. I'm not magazine racing ZR1's, Lambos or what the F ever. I bought my car to enjoy the hell out of it. If I won the lottery, I'm sure I'd buy a "supercar" or 2, but I would also still be buying these Shelbys. Point is.....I don't care how fast you make it, it is still ugly as shit. I like the hood, and thats it. You can have a great engine, and wider tires, and a quicker 0-60 but it makes no matter if you're still driving a car who's interior is typical late80's GM. They really dropped the turd/ball on it. I made up my mind to buy one when the concept came out, but the final product is a POS. Go sit in it and drive it. You can take your wider tires and drive off the ugly-cliff.

 

 

I am not paying much attention to this BS I will mention that my car smokes ZR1's What really caught my eye was what your car. It looks Great ! The paint color/wheels really looks good.

 

One if not the best looking 2010 and up cars I have seen!!

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Was at the Chicago Auto show yesterday, they have a ZL1 there. It had 285s in the rear. 550 hp and weighs more than our cars (and I'm not just talking about 2011s)...and but ugly!!!!!

 

I've read that it had 305/35/20's. The pics I saw of the rears had the same tread pattern as the 2011 PP tires.

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I've read that it had 305/35/20's. The pics I saw of the rears had the same tread pattern as the 2011 PP tires.

 

Wingrider,

 

That's because the ZL1 is spec'd for production (see 5th paragraph and related embedded link below) with the same Goodyear F1 G:2 tires that came on the 2011 GT500 SVTPP (and 2011 Corvette Z06).

 

http://www.roadandtr...olet-camaro-zl1

 

http://www.goodyeart...f1-supercar-g2/

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I am not paying much attention to this BS I will mention that my car smokes ZR1's What really caught my eye was what your car. It looks Great ! The paint color/wheels really looks good.

 

One if not the best looking 2010 and up cars I have seen!!

 

 

 

Thanks fatchile !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Was at the Chicago Auto show yesterday, they have a ZL1 there. It had 285s in the rear. 550 hp and weighs more than our cars (and I'm not just talking about 2011s)...and but ugly!!!!!

 

 

How much did it weigh ?

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what dont you understand about what i said?

 

The whole line about how the government is censoring Road and Track. I thought you were making a joke, but you never can tell.

 

example of false performance time,is when they put a z06 up against the SHELBY KR,they got a 0-60 time of 4.9,and 12.8 in the 1/4mile time.its on youtube.the KR is much quicker than that.in fact the best time or i should say,one of the best times recorded for the KR was 11.9@120 on stock tires.so,there are magazines or testers that put out false times.when hennessey ran his camaro against a stock GT500 he used 98octane.

 

 

It's not a false time. That magazine may have ran on a day with horrible track prep. Or the driver sucked. Or any number of things. No govt. entity forced them to post data contrary to their testing.

 

Hennessey has a long-standing reputation for doing....certain things. I'm not going to commit any libel, but follow their history as a vendor on some of the forums they are on back a few years.

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The whole line about how the government is censoring Road and Track. I thought you were making a joke, but you never can tell.

 

 

 

It's not a false time. That magazine may have ran on a day with horrible track prep. Or the driver sucked. Or any number of things. No govt. entity forced them to post data contrary to their testing.

 

Hennessey has a long-standing reputation for doing....certain things. I'm not going to commit any libel, but follow their history as a vendor on some of the forums they are on back a few years.

 

i dont remember saying the government censored Road and Track.i know about hennessey.the cars starting on fire,ripping people off,swapping out parts,i have a whole list some where at home on him.

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i dont remember saying the government censored Road and Track.i know about hennessey.the cars starting on fire,ripping people off,swapping out parts,i have a whole list some where at home on him.

 

 

i understand how people feel about the bailout.im not a gm fan period.they bought their way to the top years ago.although gm made terrible mistakes and is now Government Motors,in all fairness there is a bigger picture.the powers behind the scene caused the WHOLE ECONOMY to fall apart.BUSH,HENRY PAULSON,CLINTON,AND OBAMA.gas will go up sky high.it is very possible that gm needs another bailout.the housing market will get worse this year,and once commercial real estate falls apart watch out.i think if things keep going the way they ,america will only have one CAR COMPANY left.now,back to the topic please.i say FORD will do something to the GT500 that will beat the zl1.i also have to keep in mind that since the government has gm,most magazines will say that the zl1 is faster than the GT500.

 

 

Okay, not R&T then, but...

 

...what did you mean by this?

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Okay, not R&T then, but...

 

...what did you mean by this?

 

what i meant by that was this.i believe that when the time comes for the test between the GT500 and the zl1 most mags might lean torwards the zl1 over the shelby,even if the shelby is quicker.chevy might pull some of their old tricks,like send a car for testing that has alot more power than the factory one does.when the FORD GT was out,it pulled a 11.2@131.it killed the z06,then after awhile the FORD GT got slower and slower times.the new 392 challenger tested by motor trend did 13 flat in the 1/4mile.it has 470hp and tq.the old challenger had 425hp,and tq.thats a difference of 45hp.there are some claimed 392 challengers that are suppose to be stock doing 12.4-12.5.we all know that 45 more hp wont get you those types of numbers.gm has to sell cars alot of them to pay back the loans.and the magazine industry will help them do that.

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what i meant by that was this.i believe that when the time comes for the test between the GT500 and the zl1 most mags might lean torwards the zl1 over the shelby,even if the shelby is quicker.chevy might pull some of their old tricks,like send a car for testing that has alot more power than the factory one does.when the FORD GT was out,it pulled a 11.2@131.it killed the z06,then after awhile the FORD GT got slower and slower times.the new 392 challenger tested by motor trend did 13 flat in the 1/4mile.it has 470hp and tq.the old challenger had 425hp,and tq.thats a difference of 45hp.there are some claimed 392 challengers that are suppose to be stock doing 12.4-12.5.we all know that 45 more hp wont get you those types of numbers.gm has to sell cars alot of them to pay back the loans.and the magazine industry will help them do that.

 

 

 

Who's to say that Ford GT wasn't a ringer?

 

The magazines can lean whichever way they want, but they are going to report accurate 1/4 mile times as they tested them. Just like they nearly always side with the Z06 'vette over the Viper, they still show that the Viper is faster and don't fudge the facts about it.

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Bottom line is GM has stepped up it's game in at least the traction department. It's time for Ford to respond and do the same. I don't think Ford will be happy with second place as they know GM has been using a 2011 with the SVTPP as the baseline for testing.

 

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery... :redcard:

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Everything I've read says curb weight (TBD) and I'm guessing 4200.

 

 

I'm with you about the weight. Easily over 4000 lbs. Heck the Camaro SS weighs 3850 and by the time you add the supercharger and additional fluids I can't see it not increasing 150 lbs more than an SS even if they do put a lighter hood on the car.

 

A good estimate would be to look at the weight difference between a GT500 and GT. I would expect a similar weight gain for the ZL1

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Wow, some of these comments (insults) are just off the chart. But lets get back to the topic that was asked. Having wider tires doens't make it a faster car, the Hennessey Camaro has a wider setup with tons of power and what happened? The GT500 is still quicker. Now no doubt its a better handling Camaro when compared to the SS but its still heavier then GT500 with the extra added weight. My guess is GM is shooting to beat the GT500 with its slingshot performance from 100mph-140mph with some tweaked gears.

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Wow, some of these comments (insults) are just off the chart. But lets get back to the topic that was asked. .

 

Yes, its getting quite annoying.

 

Having wider tires doens't make it a faster car, the Hennessey Camaro has a wider setup with tons of power and what happened? The GT500 is still quicker.

 

 

Yep, you'll be faster with a 285 tire with a superior rubber compound than a 305 tire with an inferior compound. Of course everybody wants the ability to go wider with their choice of sticky rubber.

 

Ford, as always, has to weigh the potential costs (i.e. warranty claims due to things starting to break ) of increasing traction either through wider rubber, stickier tires or combination thereof. Or Ford may just upgrage the beefiness of the rear end to handle the increase in load forces from better traction and the assumed uptick in HP level. Either way Ford will pass on a certain % of the increase in $$ cost to the customer.

 

The problem for Ford is that GM cleverly hasn't announced the ZL1 price leaving Ford to engineer their level of upgrades to counter the ZL1 without having a firm $$ cost to shoot for. Hopefully Ford will engineer to a level that will assure the GT500 will come out on top and price it to be competitive even if they have to reduce their profit margin.

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The Grand Sport has 325's out back and the base C6 has 285's out back.

 

They are EPA rated the same.

 

The CTS-V hoovers down gasoline. I would bet the Z28 will do the same.

 

 

Corvette's are made of aluminum and fiberglass and are around a thousand pounds lighter than the GT500. So they can do pretty much whatever they want and still not have to worry about CAFE. Just saying

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Hey, hypothetical question, if an IRS is sooooo great then why aren't they use on full sized pickups? The added benifit of the pumpkin ground clearance would be awesome.

 

Personally, I don't think they will hold up to the continous work load. So the repeated stresses from a high torque motor mated to high perf diff would do what...

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Hey, hypothetical question, if an IRS is sooooo great then why aren't they use on full sized pickups? The added benifit of the pumpkin ground clearance would be awesome.

 

Personally, I don't think they will hold up to the continous work load. So the repeated stresses from a high torque motor mated to high perf diff would do what...

 

 

Well, I will pose a question in response:

 

Why would you buy a performance car that takes design cues from a pickup?

 

Back to your question, though, IRS has indeed been used on pickups. The Honda Ridgeline uses it, and when it debuted, it won Truck of the Year, and Motortrend raved about how far superior an experience driving it was:

"The Ridgeline's IFS and IRS can't be compared with conventional leaf-spring and live-axle combinations," noted one driver. "Going from any of the other trucks into the Ridgeline is like climbing out of a horse and buggy and into a flying saucer," quipped another. It's just so weirdly gentlemanly--a Rex Harrison in a roomful of Harrison Fords.

 

Our fully loaded acceleration tests have also demonstrated that the Ridgeline's independent rear suspension can haul what Honda says it can haul, though the extended durability of the setup is open to conjecture (keep an eye out for reports on our new long-term Ridgeline's brutal stay with us).

 

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/oftheyear/truck/112_0602_toty_2006_honda_ridgeline/suspension_engine.html#ixzz1E0dqvdpL

 

 

So, how did their long-term tester hold up?

 

We put this vehicle through its paces, as evidenced by its ending odometer reading of 24,219-just about double the average number of miles generally put on a long-term truck-with several trips to Nevada, Utah, and Arizona, including stints as a chase vehicle for video and photography crews on multicar road trips into the mountains and deserts of California. At no time did our vehicle have any service issues, and it gave us a best real-world fuel-economy at 19.6 mpg during flat highway driving between 65 and 68 mph.

 

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/trucks/112_0707_2006_honda_ridgeline/index.html#ixzz1E0e9A34F

 

 

The thing they noted, answers your question. When you load up the bed, the wheels "splay out" (IRS...). When you have a truck with a log under the back-end of it, it just squats down. Since pickups are meant to have things put in their beds, the log is cheaper and makes more sense. Since sports cars aren't meant to have 1500# shoved in their trunks, it is a moot point.

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Corvette's are made of aluminum and fiberglass and are around a thousand pounds lighter than the GT500. So they can do pretty much whatever they want and still not have to worry about CAFE. Just saying

 

 

CAFE is all about fleet averages. The CTS-V doesn't even worry about CAFE. That's the Volt's concern.

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Well, I will pose a question in response:

 

Why would you buy a performance car that takes design cues from a pickup?

 

Back to your question, though, IRS has indeed been used on pickups. The Honda Ridgeline uses it, and when it debuted, it won Truck of the Year, and Motortrend raved about how far superior an experience driving it was:

 

 

 

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/oftheyear/truck/112_0602_toty_2006_honda_ridgeline/suspension_engine.html#ixzz1E0dqvdpL

 

 

So, how did their long-term tester hold up?

 

 

 

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/trucks/112_0707_2006_honda_ridgeline/index.html#ixzz1E0e9A34F

 

 

The thing they noted, answers your question. When you load up the bed, the wheels "splay out" (IRS...). When you have a truck with a log under the back-end of it, it just squats down. Since pickups are meant to have things put in their beds, the log is cheaper and makes more sense. Since sports cars aren't meant to have 1500# shoved in their trunks, it is a moot point.

 

 

Really, the Honda Ridge Line? This is just my opinion, there is no way in HE!! it will out work, load for load, Ford, Chevy or Chrysler. It has always pissed me off that mag writers have compared the lesser truck with the full size american pickup, award it the truck of the year but never test load for load. I'm not talking about hauling with an SRA, just the ability to contain massive amounts of torque, the true strenght of a motor, repeatedly, continously or both. The Ford 8.8 has set the bar extemely high...

 

BTW, SVT must be doing something right since there isn't a single OEM Truck out there that can do what the Raptor is doing on a SRA, however GM is now copying Ford, again.

 

One more thing, you ever see a top fuel eliminator or rail dragster on IRS? They must have been modeled after the truck as well.

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Really, the Honda Ridge Line? This is just my opinion, there is no way in HE!! it will out work, load for load, Ford, Chevy or Chrysler. It has always pissed me off that mag writers have compared the lesser truck with the full size american pickup, award it the truck of the year but never test load for load. I'm not talking about hauling with an SRA, just the ability to contain massive amounts of torque, the true strenght of a motor, repeatedly, continously or both. The Ford 8.8 has set the bar extemely high...

 

BTW, SVT must be doing something right since there isn't a single OEM Truck out there that can do what the Raptor is doing on a SRA, however GM is now copying Ford, again.

 

One more thing, you ever see a top fuel eliminator or rail dragster on IRS? They must have been modeled after the truck as well.

 

 

Again, IRS does just fine containing "massive torque". The Ford 8.8 has had a lot of revisions. The stock axles in my old 5.0, with their 28 splines, would die doing things 'vettes do. The thin mild-steel tubing bends. Etc. etc. It was a process making a reliable Ford 8.8. Now, it is a very solid piece of work. Just like the stock rear ends in the 'vette and viper are. Even with the revisions, the rear end in the GT500 has a weak differential when it comes to torque bias, and it allows 1-wheel peels at the track in some tests I have read.

 

Just check this thread out for some 1.3X 60' times on stock IRS. Noone talking about blowing anything up, either.

 

http://forums.corvette.com/c6-z06-discussion/2773425-irs-at-the-drags-your-best-60-stock-irs.html

 

IRS is just fine. Ford just fudged it all up with the 03/04 Cobras.

 

As to GM copying Ford. Ford has copied GM plenty, too.

 

This is what I was talking about all along regarding the IRS, btw:

 

The stability in the middle of the corner remains until high-speed bumps enter the mix. Then a serious axle-dance rears its ugly head.

 

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/features/performance/1102_racer_randy_pobst_drives_2012_nissan_gtr_2011_corvette_z06_2011_shelby_gt500/shelby_gt_500_general_and_start_stop_line.html#ixzz1E7BPvibg

 

IT works great on flat pavement, not so much on bumps, and since I am more of a street driver instead of a track junkie, IRS just makes sense.

 

Then we have this about the shifter:

 

Love the shifting, it feels better to me than the GT's. It doesn't feel as retro.

 

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/features/performance/1102_racer_randy_pobst_drives_2012_nissan_gtr_2011_corvette_z06_2011_shelby_gt500/shelby_gt_500_general_and_start_stop_line.html#ixzz1E7CIhFMN

 

Apparently this guy loves it! Maybe there are good GT500 transmissions and bad ones? Or maybe he knows something the others don't. I personally thought the shifter felt a bit too much like my TKO500. Loved it, but it was pure muscle with very little finesse.

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