ATTN: Those looking to order, enter ASAP

[Evil95GT]

While I don't condone the market adjustment, I found something that MAY be of use to someone who wants the order in NOW, and wants to know what they're paying.

 

Anderson Ford (yep, the same place that makes the custom cams and powerpipes) has TWO GT500s on ebay right now. These cars are NOT listed as "over MSRP". Yes, you read that correctly. I even had to read it three times to verify. While the $50K price for the coupe and $60K for the Vert are likely inflated (since we're all expecting pricetags in the 40s), it might be a quick way to get your order in without playing games. If you're interested, here are the links:

 

2007 GT500, $50,000

 

2007 GT500 Vert, $60,000

 

I *almost* added these to the gouge thread, until I saw that the cars themselves are listed, rather than the "what you're willing to pay over the unannounced MSRP" bullshit. Hopefully, someone finds the info useful.

[PlatinumLion]

This is what I was getting at with my post "What do you think it is worth? If there were no MSRP would anybody be willing to set the market. So many here list how they hate the ADM, then outlline how they have cars on order for $xx.xx over MSRP. If Ford were to not required to price the car, how would you set the market? So many are willing to use MSRP as a marker. I think this is the best way to price a vehicle before the MSRP is announced. For what it is worth I also think this will allow some buyer a contract with teeth. Since the contract to purchase the vehicle will be more complete with an acutal price listed. Remember the more complete the agreement (contract) is the more likely it is to be enforcable, and as a result less likely to have either party try to back out of the agreement. The major component missing would be the VIN or an accurate description of the merchandise.

[NVWSSV]

 

- Still just doesn't seem right for some reason.

[ColdwaterHotrod]

If you need a Lawyer to draw up a contract it's not worth it.

 

The reason I say this is you will probably spend at least $100 to $200 to have it drawn up & then when you present it to the dealer or salesperson they will then have to get approval from the sales manager or better yet their legal team & if they don't like how’s it's written your back to square one getting it all re-drawn up at your cost & then it will go back in forth until you have wasted so much time (yours, your lawyers, & the dealerships) that they just might say take your business else where, we have people willing to pay more for it.

 

So I say if it takes that mush work to buy the car you want, buy something else or just pay what ever they are asking or shop around until you can get it at a MSRP price.

[PlatinumLion]

You do not need to write a new contract. Every time you buy a vehcile you are signing a contract. Look through the last car you bought. You have a contract. What I am saying is that if a Dealer and a prospective customer have agreed on the deal then you should be signing a contract. A dealer (or customer) cannot void the agreement without there being some legal remedy. So if you are "the first on the list" and you have not signed a contract then you may still be subjected to the dealership changing the terms of the sale. (likewise the dealership can be subject to your failing to purchase the car) If you sign a contract then you both indicate that you have an agreement.

On most purchase agreements (a contract) you will find all the relavent info. Two parties listed. Agreed upon price. VIN or other descriptive information. I recall seeing here that some people have even managed to enter into verbal agreements with more than one dealer. There is nothing wrong with this, it just lacks any enforcement. Even if you hand a dealer money (deposit) any agree on a set $ over or under MSRP, either party could still change the terms of the sale. (Dealer: I need more money to certify SVT) or customer (I need you to throw in Extras).

So I guess what I am saying is that not only should you find the dealer to sell you the car you should make sure you lock up your deal. And if you have a price listed (as opposed to $x.xx over MSRP) it would be a guaranteee that you will pay a certain price for the car.

[Orf]

That illustrates, in a nutshell, why I dislike our litigious society. What happened to someone's word being good. When I give someone a price quote over the phone, that price sticks. It doesn't matter if it's my best selling item, or worst.

 

My point is that most people on here are not bashing dealers who are looking to sell for the most money, just upset with the ones who change the (verbally) agreed upon price or position in "line" to order/buy one.

 

Basically, I only ask the dealers to honor what they said.

[PlatinumLion]

I would agree if you mean the actual Dealer. I am not talking about the sales manager, inventory manager, internet manager, fleet manager, parts manager, service manager. If a dealer principal (the actual owner) were to commit to something then back out of it I would agree that that mans word is worth nothing. However I think that so often people want a car so bad, they stroll into a dealership, asked to be put on a list, ask about how many names are on the list, and assume that the dealer has committed to sell them a car. Even if you talked with a General Manager (typically top dog if the owner does not run the show on a daily basis) and he indicated something, unless he gave you a written agreement I would not put much weight on the verbal order. Since the GT was first announced (before the last Cobra went away) My dealership has been bought out, as well as had four general managers go thru the place. So if the dealership had a written agreement, then they would have a contract that required enforcement. But if you spoke to anyone else, and got a verbal order to sell placed on a verbal commitment to buy then you will have to deal with the changes. But if the Dealer Principal were to make the commitement then I would flame the principal with the rest of you.

[Orf]

I would agree if you mean the actual Dealer. I am not talking about the sales manager, iventory manager, internet manager, fleet manager, parts manager, service manager. If a dealer principal (the actual owner) were to commit to something then back out of it I would agree that that mans word is worth nothing.

 

 

All those managers are agents for the owner. Having the position of manager carries with it decision making abilities. How often does the owner really get involved in the sale of an individual vehicle? Guess it depends on the size of the dealership. With all the vehicles I've bought, and the numerous service visits, I've never met the owner or the GM of the dealership I use. Nor have I needed to consult with them when placing an order for a redsigned model, or a brand new model, prior to order banks being open (yes, I've done it before a couple of times).

 

 

 

... I would not put much weight on the verbal order.

 

 

That is where we differ. I would, no matter whether I am the customer or the dealer.

 

 

 

My dealership has been bought out, as well as had four general managers go thru the place. So if the dealership had a written agreement, then they would have a contract that required enforcement. But if you spoke to anyone else, and got a verbal order to sell placed on a verbal commitment to buy then you will have to deal with the changes.

 

 

I agree with you. A change of ownership, or the manager no longer working there, would make me to understand why my agreement was no longer valid.

 

Listen, you can come up with whatever scenario you want. I also agree that a written contract is much stronger. My main question is what happened to people who could be taken for their word? Do what you say, and say what you do. It really is that simple.

 

 

 

As for scenarios, here is one that I think has happened quite often to people in these forums:

 

After nearly a year of "employee pricing" and having to sell vehicles near invoice for longer than that, a customer walks in and wants an upcoming model. The dealer, or more likely his agent, jumps at the chance to taste a little gravy and says they will want full window sticker for the car. They agree, and the customer is told, "You'll be first on the list when we can place an order for that vehicle". Everyone is happy. Fastforward six months, and the customer is asked to put $1K down (fully refundable) to secure his spot in line (which is now second because an employee from the dealership wants one, too - no problem - Rank Has Its Privlidges). Fastforward another 3 months. Barrett-Jackson had the very first vehicle off the line sell for $648,000.00, of which roughly $609,005.00 goes to charity in exchange for a number of parting gifts and the opportunity to spend a day with Mr. Shelby, himself. A few weeks later, a handful of vehicles have "sold" on EBay for $20K - $50K over sticker. The following conversation occurs...

 

Sales Manager: We really missed the boat with that guy who is on our list at MSRP.

 

General Manager: How so?

 

SM: Well, have you seen what the B-J auction brought? Have you seen EBay? We're only going to make about $6K off that guy.

 

GM: Did he sign a contract?

 

SM: Well.... No..... But....

 

GM: So where's the problem? We'll sell them at Market Price.

 

 

 

 

 

That is where I take offense. I'm pretty sure that was how it happened in my case.

[cobra8u]

ORF,

I think are right on about how alot of deals went down. I just want add that I bought my first new car in 1977, and many since then, but had never met the GM or the owner of any dealership. I just placed an order for a Shelby on Friday, at the largest Ford dealer in our area for MSRP, and both the GM and the owner came out to talk to me. They wanted to meet me because they passed up alot of profit to give me this deal so that the car would go to a real enthusiast, who would not turn around and sell it for a profit. They wanted it to stay local and wanted a happy man behind the wheel. I guess they think the good publicity is worth it. I thought that was pretty neat.

[5.4 Shelby]

ORF,

I think are right on about how alot of deals went down. I just want add that I bought my first new car in 1977, and many since then, but had never met the GM or the owner of any dealership. I just placed an order for a Shelby on Friday, at the largest Ford dealer in our area for MSRP, and both the GM and the owner came out to talk to me. They wanted to meet me because they passed up alot of profit to give me this deal so that the car would go to a real enthusiast, who would not turn around and sell it for a profit. They wanted it to stay local and wanted a happy man behind the wheel. I guess they think the good publicity is worth it. I thought that was pretty neat.

 

You should make an effort to buy as many future cars as you can from that dealer. He is giving up easy profit to make a customer happy. It should be rewarded with repeat business and referrals.

[ColdwaterHotrod]

Orf...

 

I feel your RAGE & have the same feelings as do many others on this site about New car dealers being greedy & dishonest with or without a written sales contract. Now take a deep breath & relax, let me get up on the soapbox. Don't let a few PRO-DEALER dealers on this site get you in such a rage. PlatinumLion has stated his case & is on the side of the dealer charging more since he is one & that's his primary source of income.

 

Here's a question for the new car dealers..... What ever happened to the good old fashion days where a man's word & handshake was all you needed for a contract?

 

I'll tell, you...It went Down the toilet because of greed & the OH mighty buck $. Everything now a days comes down to the written word. A verbal promise from a salesperson, salesmanager, general manager, parts manager, service writers, mechanics, means nothing anymore.

 

If they will not put it in writing then move on to another dealer & give them a life time of business (yours & others). I have always been thaught that the CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT in sales & that you need to do what every it takes to best serve them if you want to stay in business & keep them coming back. (the key word here is coming back). Even if that means making them mad when trying to save them money for un-necessary parts & services they think they need. An honest person will always come out farther ahead then a lying, dis-honest snake in the grass everytime.

 

Like I said before, if you sell a new car for less than MSRP, then shame on you. IF I buy a car for more than MSRP, Shame on me!

[Evil95GT]

Wow. I hope I didn't piss anyone off or anything. Basically, here's what I was thinking. *If* I were in the situation y'all are, with dealers playing games, throwing their lists away, refusing to take orders and so on, this is likely the route *I* would go. A big selling point for me is *who* is selling these two cars. I've dealt with them numerous times over the last 10 years (buying parts and such) and I feel it would be a place I can trust. I would likely call, speak to one of the Andersons, then bid accordingly. That way, the price I'm paying is right in front of me...........no games, no hidden fees, etc.

[Orf]

What ever happened to the good old fashion days where a man's word & handshake was all you needed for a contract?

 

 

Amen, brother. I'm only 39, but my father raised me to understand that all you can really be judged by is how good your word is. Unfortunately, I've grown up in an age where junk bonds and shady deals are the norm. There are very few people who honor their own word, let alone trust the word of another.

 

Why do you think we are drowning in fine print anymore? Why are there almost as many pages in the telephone book for lawyers as there are for doctors? Everyone needs a doctor.

 

Please, no offense meant to the lawyers out there (lawdude?). I have a number of friends who are lawyers, and even use the services of two for business. It isn't an indictment of lawyers, but an indictment of the way things have become.

 

 

Sorry to have hijacked this thread. Let's just get it back on topic.

 

 

 

 

I think a +/- 500 Hp, nicely loaded convertible should come in at just under 50K, including delivery and GGT. I base that on the cost of my 2004 Excusrsion, 4x4, diesel, fully loaded. The sticker on that was $53K, and I got it for $50K (one of the vehicles I ordered before the official order banks were open, btw). I figure the material and build cost for the Mustang would be less than my truck, so the price should reflect the same.

[PlatinumLion]

ColdwaterHotrod, you assume too much.

Just because I work for a dealership does not mean that my pay is based on how much over the company makes on the vehicle. If you look at my posts you could see that I have publically come out agains the ADM. I think it is silly, as well as flat out poor marketing. However I also think it is silly to call a dealership and ask about how many people are on a list, and claim that you are number such and such just because you say you want the car. That is why I think both dealers and customers should enter into a contract.

I think that a man's word should count for something, however without something in writing it becomes a case of poor dealers memory (whether by convenience, or actual) versus the customers memory of what is said or what was offered. I am not trying to offend you or anyone else. I am just trying to add perspective, like you are by relating my experience. If an individual gets on three dealers lists has he committed to buy all three. I would not think so, as long as both parties understand that being on a list is different from buying the car. If he signs contracts or commitments to purchase at all three stores then I think that he is bound to buy all three. I think if you really want a car and do not want to pay more than MSRP for one it will be possible. However patience must be used. Not everyone who wants to pay MSRP or invoice for a car will be able to get one for thier target price. I hope to get a GT500 but I will not pay a gross amount over MSRP for one. (I would pay over MSRP, but not too much) I know how much I am willing to pay for one, and if given the opportunity, will do so. Hopefully all who have the will and the means can do so.

I hope I did not get ORF into a rage, and hope I dont get you in one. I just want to express my option like you have done.

[ColdwaterHotrod]

PlatinumLion,

 

I thank you for your honesty, again. I fully understand where you are coming from & I was only trying to de-fuse ORF's rage. Granted I'm not happy about any of this either & I my have assumed you were Pro-Dealer because of your very 1st posting (Sorry, my apologies). Five Oh B has been a wealth on knowledge & an asset to this board from the current SVT/New car sales aspect & I hope you will too so we all can be educated. Please don't take what I write personal, It's meant to create & stimulate other topics & discussions.

[DutchGT500]

The Ebay auctions are the same as the ones bidding over MSRP. Still feels not right. This one starts at 50 and probably ends at 70. That's 20 over possible MSRP.

[Orf]

Rage?

 

I knew I should have set that straight when it was first posted. I feel no rage. I'm just disappointed that people don't stand behind what they say. I've gotten used to it from people over the years. I just wish people would be more forthright.

 

As I said before, I have orders in at two dealerships. Both dealerships know this. Both have agreed (in writing) to refund my deposit if I decide not to buy the car. I'm the second order placed at both places.

 

The first one I visited hasn't committed to ADM yet (rather, the owner hasn't, both the salesman and Sales Manager agreed to MSRP last year - not in writing), but have placed an order for what I want. They also said if I decide not to buy it, they're sure they'll find someone to buy it at their ADM. Being a Presidents Award winner, they will get 2 for the '07 MY. Who knows when the second order will be pulled, though.

 

The second dealer agreed (in writing) to $5K over. They are a small dealership, and will likely only get one '07 MY. This means that order won't get pulled until next year. So there is plenty of time.

 

What do I see as the most likely outcome for my situation? The first dealer will ask for much more than I am willing to pay. This could go two ways; I'll pass on the car, or I'll see it in person and cave. I doubt that I'll cave. The second dealer will only get one alloted for '07, which kills the whole birthday-present-from-me-to-me idea, and I'll cancel in September. After that, I'll visit the local Audi, BMW, and Mercedes dealers and pick my favorite at that time. One way, or another, I will have a "good weather" car by the end of September.

 

What would I like to see happen? The first dealer gets my order in the showroom this summer, and wants an amount that is reasonable to me. That way I get my favorite car this year.

 

To reiterate, I feel no rage. Sorry if I gave that impression.

[Evil95GT]

Ok, now I'm pissed.........

 

 

W T F!

 

The auction for the Coupe has been removed. That tells me ONE thing........I guarantee someone emailed Anderson Ford with the right price, made their damn money transfer, and poof! The car disappeared.

 

Why lead people to believe they have a shot at the car if you're going to do crooked shit like this?