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FRPP Throttle Body VS L&M


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I have the FRPP 62mm throttle body ready to go for my mods down at JDM this spring. I've heard some guys saying the L&M 66mm or 72mm throttle body will give twice the amount of rwhp the frpp one will give me. I don't know if this is true, but Jim Jr. @ JDM told me the FRPP 62mm is what they recommend for our cars.

 

To do list: @ JDM Engineering- March 2011:

-Kooks 1 5/8" Longtube Headers w/ catted X-Pipe

-FRPP Intake Manifold

-FRPP 62mm Throttle Body

-FRPP Hot Rod Cams

-Steeda Carbon Fiber Intake Elbow

-Aluminum FRPP Axle Girdle

-3.73 Gears

-Shelby Valve Covers

-Shelby Autometer N/A Gauges and Gauge pod

-Dyno Tune

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I have the FRPP 62mm throttle body ready to go for my mods down at JDM this spring. I've heard some guys saying the L&M 66mm or 72mm throttle body will give twice the amount of rwhp the frpp one will give me. I don't know if this is true, but Jim Jr. @ JDM told me the FRPP 62mm is what they recommend for our cars.

 

To do list: @ JDM Engineering- March 2011:

-Kooks 1 5/8" Longtube Headers w/ catted X-Pipe

-FRPP Intake Manifold

-FRPP 62mm Throttle Body

-FRPP Hot Rod Cams

-Steeda Carbon Fiber Intake Elbow

-Aluminum FRPP Axle Girdle

-3.73 Gears

-Shelby Valve Covers

-Shelby Autometer N/A Gauges and Gauge pod

-Dyno Tune

 

 

Unless you've added a SC, the L&M66/72 and FRPP CJ65 won't fit your GTH. L&M does make an awesome twin-62 (first one on the page) specifically for your car -- flows more than any other 62 available (1500CFM). That would be my choice. JDM/Jim jr knows his stuff and would surely recommend the L&M62 for the GTH if they're aware of it.

 

-Dan

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I would think the FRPP 62mm would flow just as well as the L&M 62mm. Jim jr did recommend the FRPP Throttle Body.

 

 

...it doesn't -- not even close. Ask Jim jr what the FRPP flows at 1" Hg (28" H2O) pressure drop. It will be *way* less than 1500 CFM. The FRPP 62 is a nice looking piece and a step-up from the stocker, but definately not in the same league as the L&M. Just tell JDM you want it (if you do). I'm really surprised at them not being up to speed on the L&M62 because JDM really does rock -- few if any know modulars better than they do -- but they can't be up on everything, I guess. Really, the L&M is a superior piece. If you have a chance to see the two side-by-side it will be readily apparent.

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I don't know anything about the flow rates of either, but I would assume there is a point when more air in does not translate into more power out and could possibly hurt the power or tune-ability unless the flow of the entire system optimized. Your list mentions improvements everywhere but the heads so you may be limited by the amount air they can flow (by the way I have no idea what the stock heads are capable of, they could be just fine.) Mostlikely the only way to know is to try both throttle bodies and see what happens. You may also be limited by the Massair housing.

 

Good luck, I'm really looking forward to your results as this the same direction in mods I'm considering.

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I'm just going to stick with the FRPP throttle body. Even if the L&M will give me a few more ponies It wont make a difference. Besides I'd rather have the Ford Racing Product and name under my hood.

 

 

And about porting the heads, I spoke to Jim jr at JDM about that as well. The stock heads in our cars have NO flow issues whatsoever. He said that with the mods I'm doing, even if I ported and polished my stock heads or got new ported and polished heads, it would add a few hp. For the $ it would take to do heads, NOT worth it.

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Engines are big pumps. Less pumping effort due to less intake restriction is always beneficial to power and efficiency. The MAF meters the air, the TB merely makes it available ...it can't hurt the power. Making more air flow available at the same or less pressure-drop is always a benefit. If the MAF or injectors are out of meter range, that would have to be addressed in any event but it's unlikely a TB swap would bump that. On a stock GTH, the L&M will not bump those limits at all and needs no tune -- it's a simple bolt-on. If other powr mods are done, the L&M will help exploit them better than the stock or FRPP TB because less intake pressure-drop benefits a higher flowing engine more than a lesser flowing engine, but it's a net benefit in all cases.

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Engines are big pumps. Less pumping effort due to less intake restriction is always beneficial to power and efficiency. The MAF meters the air, the TB merely makes it available ...it can't hurt the power. Making more air flow available at the same or less pressure-drop is always a benefit. If the MAF or injectors are out of meter range, that would have to be addressed in any event but it's unlikely a TB swap would bump that. On a stock GTH, the L&M will not bump those limits at all and needs no tune -- it's a simple bolt-on. If other powr mods are done, the L&M will help exploit them better than the stock or FRPP TB because less intake pressure-drop benefits a higher flowing engine more than a lesser flowing engine, but it's a net benefit in all cases.

 

 

Dan, your wasting your time here. JDM is like Tasca was when L&M first came out with their first TB. I couldn't get them to try the L&M. Now they use it on all their packages. JDM is good but is over rated. L&M FTW

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Dan, your wasting your time here. JDM is like Tasca was when L&M first came out with their first TB. I couldn't get them to try the L&M. Now they use it on all their packages. JDM is good but is over rated. L&M FTW

 

 

I wouldn't say JDM is overrated, they know their shit. Second, even if the L&M throttle body is a bit better, (Which I haven't seen proof it is) I'd rather have a genuine Ford Racing Part. Unless you are supercharged or making over 500hp, a bigger or higher flowing throttle body isn't necessarily better. A bigger Throttle Body actually will cause a loss in velocity of incoming air. For the mods I am doing, Jim said the FRPP throttle body is the best. But thank you for your responses Dan. I never realized trying to answer someones question with good knowledge of the subject was a waste of time.

 

Jason, I was told the same thing. Doing the FRPP intake manifold alone or with the throttle body would make very little difference and would actually create a decrease in low end torque. With Long tube headers and cams, the manifold can really make its intended power. In the article about the manifold, the engine builder from livernois said that with the cams, long tube headers and throttle body installed, the only restriction then was the stock manifold. They made 425hp on the dyno, and if my memory serves me correctly 445hp with a tune. I spoke to Jim about porting my heads and he said it is a waste of money. The stock heads flow perfectly fine. I don't know if any of you know of Tony Feil, but he is a very well known and highly respected engine builder. He built the 427 side oiler in my dads 67' cobra. Even Tony said the stock heads on our cars flow great. With Tony and Jim Jr. saying ported heads are a no go, I think it's a no go. :yup: That is unless you have extra $ you want to blow for nothing....lol :hysterical:

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why did you even ask the question about the two TB's if you have already made up your made? or this statement?

"Unless you are supercharged or making over 500hp, a bigger or higher flowing throttle body isn't necessarily better"

 

you might want to check out other forums that have way more information on performance mods. you will find out with the mods you are doing the FR TB is a waste of your $$$. I have the FR on the SGT/Techco that's way I went with the L&M on the Bullitt way better air flow and thortle response.

 

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why did you even ask the question about the two TB's if you have already made up your made? or this statement?

"Unless you are supercharged or making over 500hp, a bigger or higher flowing throttle body isn't necessarily better"

 

you might want to check out other forums that have way more information on performance mods. you will find out with the mods you are doing the FR TB is a waste of your $$$. I have the FR on the SGT/Techco that's way I went with the L&M on the Bullitt way better air flow and thortle response.

 

Picture045.jpg

2-9-1.jpg

 

 

It was all after I spoke to Jim at JDM. The FR 62mm will certainly flow much better than the stock 55mm, so it's not like the 62mm throttle wont make a difference.

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It was all after I spoke to Jim at JDM. The FR 62mm will certainly flow much better than the stock 55mm, so it's not like the 62mm throttle wont make a difference.

 

 

of course he would tell you that, he's selling you the TB and making $$$. you will find plenty of modded 4.6 3v with stock TB's making over 500rwhp with them.

 

did Jim explain this to you,

 

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I'm surprised JDM didn't also recommend the FRPP CNC 3V heads since they seem so keen on the TB. The 3V has VCT so a proper tune should be able to keep the low-end from degrading and help mid-range a bit and top-end a bunch. Admittedly spending near $2K on heads might not be the best bang for the buck tho, but the stock 3V heads, while good, do still leave quite a bit on the table imo.

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I have no opinion other than I trust Ford, otherwise every new vehical I've bought would not have been a Ford. They have too much at stake to pass off a poor product in a market this competitive.

 

Per Ford: The M-9424-463V 4.6L 3-Valve Performance Intake Manifold normally shows flexing of the manifold body during normal operation with some fuel rail movement. Our testing shows this flexing will not lead to premature failure of the manifold, injector or injector gasket. Ford Racing will replace any M-9424-463V 4.6L 3-Valve Performance Intake Manifold that fails due to defects in workmanship or materials within three (3) years of the date of purchase. Proof of purchase will be required for submission of warranty claim. To the extent allowed by law, this warranty does not cover towing, shipping, removal, installation, rental vehicles, storage, loss of time, commercial loss, loss of use of vehicle, inconvenience, incidental or consequential damages, or other economic loss. Contact the Ford Performance Call Center at (800)367-3788 for details. Damage as a result of improper tuning is not covered.

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Will the JLT elbow work with the stock FRPP filter head? The steeda is a direct bolt on with the stock filter head. Also, is that link the entire kit or just the elbow? If it is only the elbow, that is EXPENSIVE! That has to be the complete CAI kit. I paid 170 for my steeda carbon fiber elbow.

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The JLT intake and MAF housing is significantly larger (110mm) then the MAF house in the SGT which is the steeda MAF housing. The $699 price includes the tune which you will not need. JLT sells the intake minus the tune for $399.

 

I would like the JLT intake but I'm held back by the price as well.

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I'm just going to stick with the FRPP throttle body. Even if the L&M will give me a few more ponies It wont make a difference. Besides I'd rather have the Ford Racing Product and name under my hood.

 

 

And about porting the heads, I spoke to Jim jr at JDM about that as well. The stock heads in our cars have NO flow issues whatsoever. He said that with the mods I'm doing, even if I ported and polished my stock heads or got new ported and polished heads, it would add a few hp. For the $ it would take to do heads, NOT worth it.

 

 

If you are plannig on staying NA on a stock motor I can not see any reason other than looks to swap out the 55mm TB with a FRPP 62mm, where the only thing you are likley to gain is drivabilty issues .

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^100% truth.

 

I've done TB swaps to my own motor when it was still NA. Zero gains. None. At the end of the day, I had a little crisper response out of the hole and a lot less $ in my pocket.

I'm currently making 600+ rwhp with the stock TB. I'm finally at the point where my stocker is the restriction and needs to go, but this is after years of modding this thing to the hilt.

If you're NA and plan on staying NA, any TB is a waste of dough IMO. If you ever plan on making serious power, the L&M is the only way to go. Good luck.

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^100% truth.

 

I've done TB swaps to my own motor when it was still NA. Zero gains. None. At the end of the day, I had a little crisper response out of the hole and a lot less $ in my pocket.

I'm currently making 600+ rwhp with the stock TB. I'm finally at the point where my stocker is the restriction and needs to go, but this is after years of modding this thing to the hilt.

If you're NA and plan on staying NA, any TB is a waste of dough IMO. If you ever plan on making serious power, the L&M is the only way to go. Good luck.

 

 

Got 3 more #'s of boost with the FRPP, at the level your at now the stocker is probaly more of a restriction than you think at least it was with my setup.

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^100% truth.

 

I've done TB swaps to my own motor when it was still NA. Zero gains. None. At the end of the day, I had a little crisper response out of the hole and a lot less $ in my pocket.

I'm currently making 600+ rwhp with the stock TB. I'm finally at the point where my stocker is the restriction and needs to go, but this is after years of modding this thing to the hilt.

If you're NA and plan on staying NA, any TB is a waste of dough IMO. If you ever plan on making serious power, the L&M is the only way to go. Good luck.

 

 

 

+1 B)

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Even with the L&M62 on a stock GTH you'll only seen 4-6rw gain over stock. At 315crank HP the engine just doesn't flow all that much air (about 460cfm) so the gain from adding even the 1500cfm L&M62 is modest.

 

A fixed-displacement supercharged (FDSC) engine is a whole 'nother ballgame. FDSCs (e.g. roots and twinscrews) loose efficiency rapidly as intake pressure drops exceed 1" Hg (or 28" H2O column), so a super-flowing TB and low restriction intake path is 'critical' on a SC motor but just incrementally 'beneficial' on an NA motor.

 

-Dan

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Even with the L&M62 on a stock GTH you'll only seen 4-6rw gain over stock. At 315crank HP the engine just doesn't flow all that much air (about 460cfm) so the gain from adding even the 1500cfm L&M62 is modest.

 

A fixed-displacement supercharged (FDSC) engine is a whole 'nother ballgame. FDSCs (e.g. roots and twinscrews) loose efficiency rapidly as intake pressure drops exceed 1" Hg (or 28" H2O column), so a super-flowing TB and low restriction intake path is 'critical' on a SC motor but just incrementally 'beneficial' on an NA motor.

 

-Dan

 

 

thanks Dan

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Even with the L&M62 on a stock GTH you'll only seen 4-6rw gain over stock. At 315crank HP the engine just doesn't flow all that much air (about 460cfm) so the gain from adding even the 1500cfm L&M62 is modest.

 

A fixed-displacement supercharged (FDSC) engine is a whole 'nother ballgame. FDSCs (e.g. roots and twinscrews) loose efficiency rapidly as intake pressure drops exceed 1" Hg (or 28" H2O column), so a super-flowing TB and low restriction intake path is 'critical' on a SC motor but just incrementally 'beneficial' on an NA motor.

 

-Dan

 

 

Very well said, thanks.

As for my own motor, my stock TB is most definitely a huge restriction. I've just waited a long time to buy another TB, only after wasting my $ the first and 2nd times around. I wanted time to research the FRPP vs L&M specifically, so that I could make an informed decision. I took months doing so. After sorting through endless forum threads like this and talking with the people who build them, sell them, and race them, I decided that the L&M is in my immediate future. shift.gif

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So basically, doing the FRPP or L&M 62mm throttle body is not worth the money for what I am doing this spring?

 

And would you rather do the Carbon Fiber JLT intake or the stock FRPP intake head with the carbon fiber Steeda Elbow?

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So basically, doing the FRPP or L&M 62mm throttle body is not worth the money for what I am doing this spring?

 

And would you rather do the Carbon Fiber JLT intake or the stock FRPP intake head with the carbon fiber Steeda Elbow?

 

 

Pretty much. You'll see incrementally more with the L&M over the FRPP (1 or 2) and the more HP you make the bigger the benefit, but even at 500crank HP (NA) you'll still probably see under 10 from any TB swap, so not the best bang for the buck.

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So basically, doing the FRPP or L&M 62mm throttle body is not worth the money for what I am doing this spring?

 

And would you rather do the Carbon Fiber JLT intake or the stock FRPP intake head with the carbon fiber Steeda Elbow?

 

 

Yeah man that's about it.

As for the intake, either one is great for your application IMO.

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