REVENGE Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 This thread is very entertaining. I love that a Government Motors lover is trying to argue that the Camaro is better than a Mustang. It just goes to show why the company had to be bailed out. All of it's costumers are clearly insane! How can you argue that a car that has not even been produced is better than an existing proven one? Again, insane. Suck it GM. There is no way GM would bring out a car to compete with the GT500 if it could not beat it. Time will tell. Hopefully you are still posting here when the Z28 comes out. Also I wonder where all the GM hatred is coming from. You would think it was a foreign car company the way some people carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07SGT5687 Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 Its also amazing how some people want to move the discussion off of performance and talk about the Camaro being discontinued. They only reason I got dragged into this... Some people will be very upset when the Z28 comes out and does what it is supposed to do. I have to admit, I do look forward to every new post you make! You find it AMAZING that people bring up the point that your beloved 2002 Camaro was discontinued? Successful vehicles don't just get cancelled. Something was obviously fundamentally wrong with the Camaro, particularly the years leading up to 2002... or it would not have been cancelled. You got DRAGGED into this?! That's histerical. Yes, you had no choice but to set the record straight... the 100% presumptive, self-proclaimed-before-proving-anything record. Which brings me to your last "point". We "WILL be very upset WHEN"... Really? Wow you literally just believe EVERYTHING GM tells you huh? I prefer to let history and results speak, rather than propaganda. Regardless of the fact that they've spent the last decade+ wallowing in their own shat... you still believe them to be the top of the class that can just come back and topple the Mustang. Brilliant. There is no way GM would bring out a car to compete with the GT500 if it could not beat it. Also I wonder where all the GM hatred is coming from. You REALLY do crack me up! There is no way?! Have you been in a coma for the past decade? Dang near everything GM did for the past 10 years WAS a failure. Does it need repeating that were it not for a very friendly Gov't... there would be no GM to speak of? So actually, I disagree vehemently, that there is no way GM would bring a car out to compete with the GT500 if it could not beat it. In fact, didn't they just come out with the Camaro itself that could not beat the new Mustang GT? All that said, I very much am open to the possibility that the Camaro will come out and stomp the GT500 performance-wise... I just won't believe it until I see it. You wonder where the "hatred" is coming from? That's very odd. Is GM the devil? No. Have they been the arch rival to the Ford since the beginning of the muscle car? Yes. Is this a Shelby (Ford for the vast majority) website? Yes. Making sense now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Beyond Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 How is the z/28 gonna beat the GT500 when the current SS can't even beat the current GT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat501 Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 There is no way GM would bring out a car to compete with the GT500 if it could not beat it. Time will tell.. I'll agree with that but . . . . . . . apparently the guys on this site with some inside FORD knowledge are strongly hinting that Ford is ready and waiting to leap frog whatever the s/c Camaro brings to the table. This is perfectly believeable since GM is taking soooooo long to bring their car to market. Sheez I heard Z28 rumors long before BOSS 302 rumors and the BOSS 302 will be on the street for a whole year before the Z28 or whatever they call it I'd just like to know how Ford plans to up the GT500 performance. Hopefully better traction is part of the Ford plan since adding HP to the GT500 is no problem with the aftermarket for the car and the forged motor from Ford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tob Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 I'd just like to know how Ford plans to up the GT500 performance. Hopefully better traction is part of the Ford plan since adding HP to the GT500 is no problem with the aftermarket for the car and the forged motor from Ford Nailed it. Power is nothing without traction. Ford needs to revise the rear wheelwell stamping, along with some minor rear shock relocation. At that point they could finally squeeze in some serious rubber out back, straight from the factory. They also need to change to a beefier, lighter weight, driveshaft (among other things). But I digress... I like the exterior styling of the Camaro as much as I dig that of the S197 chassis. What turns me off instantly is the hideous interior. Hopefully, GM stylists will put the pipe down and get with the times. The GM executive that signed off on the interior design should be exiled far away from any design studio. As to the future of the top dog Ford, I can see the swan song for the 5.4 and a shift to a Coyote based variant. I think a simple move to a DI five liter would keep the performance at nothing less than current levels (with a significant boost in fuel mileage) and hopefully Ford can continue to find ways to shed extra pounds as well. Combined with more rubber out back, the Ford offering has the opportunity to start anew as a quicker car than the current, handle better, offer better fuel efficiency, and that's without any type of blower! That, could be held in reserve to be added to any "super duper edition" and what have you. Bottom line for Ford regardless of what GM does - less weight, similar power to current levels, and more traction. Here's to hoping they can and will pull it off in the near future. Tob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svttim Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svttim Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Nailed it. Power is nothing without traction. Ford needs to revise the rear wheelwell stamping, along with some minor rear shock relocation. At that point they could finally squeeze in some serious rubber out back, straight from the factory. They also need to change to a beefier, lighter weight, driveshaft (among other things). But I digress... I like the exterior styling of the Camaro as much as I dig that of the S197 chassis. What turns me off instantly is the hideous interior. Hopefully, GM stylists will put the pipe down and get with the times. The GM executive that signed off on the interior design should be exiled far away from any design studio. As to the future of the top dog Ford, I can see the swan song for the 5.4 and a shift to a Coyote based variant. I think a simple move to a DI five liter would keep the performance at nothing less than current levels (with a significant boost in fuel mileage) and hopefully Ford can continue to find ways to shed extra pounds as well. Combined with more rubber out back, the Ford offering has the opportunity to start anew as a quicker car than the current, handle better, offer better fuel efficiency, and that's without any type of blower! That, could be held in reserve to be added to any "super duper edition" and what have you. Bottom line for Ford regardless of what GM does - less weight, similar power to current levels, and more traction. Here's to hoping they can and will pull it off in the near future. Tob Hello 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frydguy79 Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 There is no way GM would bring out a car to compete with the GT500 if it could not beat it. Time will tell. Hopefully you are still posting here when the Z28 comes out. Also I wonder where all the GM hatred is coming from. You would think it was a foreign car company the way some people carry on. no not foreign,, just not worth doing business with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svtmattUT Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 I think it's a safe bet that the z/28 will beat or atleast equal a stock gt500 when launched. GM bought up a bunch of 2011 GT500s with the SVT package to test it against. Autoweek and others reported seeing them at the track too, busted. GM can't afford to release this car and fail like the SS is failing against the new 5.0. By testing it side by side with the GT500 they will continue until they get a winning combo. Ultimately weight will always be the Camaros achilles heel, only so much you can do with 4k+lbs. The GT500 will always win the modded battle. Not to mention, has anyone actually seen just how tacky the dash is in that car? I had a chance to drive on recently, couldn't get past how cheap the gauges looked. http://www.autoweek.com/article/20100723/CARNEWS/100729946 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REAL ONE Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 I don't hate GM. I think the competition is good and a competitive camaro and challener make it more fun and intreseting. What fun what it be to see nothing but Mustangs at cruise nights or shows or at the track? The more like the good ol' days back in the 60s the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat501 Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Ford needs to revise the rear wheelwell stamping, along with some minor rear shock relocation. At that point they could finally squeeze in some serious rubber out back, straight from the factory. They also need to change to a beefier, lighter weight, driveshaft (among other things). Oh yeah! :happy feet: Now you're talking. This is what I hope happens instead of just another HP bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIKEBOY Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Nailed it. Power is nothing without traction. Ford needs to revise the rear wheelwell stamping, along with some minor rear shock relocation. At that point they could finally squeeze in some serious rubber out back, straight from the factory. Tob... Or even better yet, why not FINALLY get serious about an IRS set-up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tob Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 If Ford was changing the platform to AWD and splitting the power fore/aft, I'd be all for IRS. Until that point, I'd rather see continued weight reduction (not going to happen with IRS) and continued drivetrain simplicity as an effective means of keeping costs down. As long as the car falls into the "way overpowered" category, I much prefer the beef that the solid axle provides. With looming CAFE increases right around the corner it'll be interesting to see what happens to our beloved pony cars - Camaro included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIKEBOY Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 If Ford was changing the platform to AWD and splitting the power fore/aft, I'd be all for IRS. Until that point, I'd rather see continued weight reduction (not going to happen with IRS) and continued drivetrain simplicity as an effective means of keeping costs down. As long as the car falls into the "way overpowered" category, I much prefer the beef that the solid axle provides. With looming CAFE increases right around the corner it'll be interesting to see what happens to our beloved pony cars - Camaro included. +100 Leaner cars would require less HP, to achieve what we have today. It's all relative. The leaner cars would handle more superbly as well. Extreme case in point: Aerial Atom!! edit- photo of Aerial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubstang Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 There is no way GM would bring out a car to compete with the GT500 if it could not beat it. Time will tell. Hopefully you are still posting here when the Z28 comes out. Also I wonder where all the GM hatred is coming from. You would think it was a foreign car company the way some people carry on. Well by 2012 they will have had 7 years to come out with a camaro to compete with the GT500. It's about time! And as for me posting here when the Z28 comes out, I plan on it. I want to continue to post unlike GM who discontinued the Camaro. As for my distaste with GM, it's more about their management to me which obviously was lacking integrity when the US Government had to bail them out to keep them alive. I for one am very proud of Ford for making it on their own and once again leading the way with the modern muscle car. I really don't hate GM, I just prefer Ford for their quality products and outstanding performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overtime Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 There is no way GM would bring out a car to compete with the GT500 if it could not beat it. Time will tell. Hopefully you are still posting here when the Z28 comes out. Also I wonder where all the GM hatred is coming from. You would think it was a foreign car company the way some people carry on. Well China does own a lot of our debt, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07SGT5687 Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 I for one am very proud of Ford for making it on their own and once again leading the way with the modern muscle car. I really don't hate GM, I just prefer Ford for their quality products and outstanding performance. All things said, this best summarizes my feelings as well. Nicely said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang let back Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Cant Have Every Victory Yet let us not forget that from FORD :happy feet: you can get the supercharger upgrade for the 5.0,that will take you from 412hp to 624hp.the SCRAPMARO will get DESTROYED!!l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang loco Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 I think the competition is good and a competitive camaro and challener make it more fun and intreseting. What fun what it be to see nothing but Mustangs at cruise nights or shows or at the track? The more like the good ol' days back in the 60s the better. Being only 38 yrs old,I missed the "muscle car era",I'm actually happy to see the Camaro back and more so, to see the new Z-28.Don't get me wrong guys,love my GT 500.and know these cars can be real monsters,but there's monster Camaro's being built by Hennessey,Lingenfelter,SLP...and to see the Z-28 coming along,I'm sure guy's will tune these just like we do with our mustangs!! There's CTS-V's running in low 10's high 9's out there,the Z will be doin' the same for sure!!Muscle cars are back,and I'm more than happy to be abble to be part of it.In today's world,when it comes down to cars,if you have the $$$ to play,you can have whatever you want...no matter what brand your drivin'... Here's a vid(sorry,bout' a Camaro on the dyno,check out these number's just for the fun of it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIKEBOY Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 Being only 38 yrs old,I missed the "muscle car era",I'm actually happy to see the Camaro back and more so, to see the new Z-28.Don't get me wrong guys,love my GT 500.and know these cars can be real monsters,but there's monster Camaro's being built by Hennessey,Lingenfelter,SLP...and to see the Z-28 coming along,I'm sure guy's will tune these just like we do with our mustangs!! There's CTS-V's running in low 10's high 9's out there,the Z will be doin' the same for sure!!Muscle cars are back,and I'm more than happy to be abble to be part of it.In today's world,when it comes down to cars,if you have the $$$ to play,you can have whatever you want...no matter what brand your drivin'... Here's a vid(sorry,bout' a Camaro on the dyno,check out these number's just for the fun of it.) Thanks for the post, Camaro Loco!!! Hehehehehehehe...I'm just bustin' ya stones! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang loco Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 Thanks for the post, Camaro Loco!!! Hehehehehehehe...I'm just bustin' ya stones! No problem bud',could of wrote some info bout' some bad Challenger's too............just sayin' :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REVENGE Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 I think it's a safe bet that the z/28 will beat or atleast equal a stock gt500 when launched. GM bought up a bunch of 2011 GT500s with the SVT package to test it against. Autoweek and others reported seeing them at the track too, busted. GM can't afford to release this car and fail like the SS is failing against the new 5.0. By testing it side by side with the GT500 they will continue until they get a winning combo. Ultimately weight will always be the Camaros achilles heel, only so much you can do with 4k+lbs. The GT500 will always win the modded battle. Not to mention, has anyone actually seen just how tacky the dash is in that car? I had a chance to drive on recently, couldn't get past how cheap the gauges looked. http://www.autoweek.com/article/20100723/CARNEWS/100729946 This is what I am talking about. The SS "failed" against the Mustang GT? When the SS came out the mustang was a 300+ horsepower "muscle" car. Ford was forced to go back to the drawing board and come out with the current version. They had to go back and greatly increase the power of their V6 and V8 models. I guess to your thinking if a manufacturer beats its competitor and the competitor is forced to go back and increase power to compete then the manufacturer "fails". Guess what what? Its the way of competition. One guy comes out at one level then the competition figures out a way to beat him. Its about updating the car every few years. Also based on your reasoning when the Z28 comes out and is a faster than the GT500 it means the GT500 is "failing"??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TN Red Snake Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 What ever it is that spurred Ford to come out with the new 6 and the Coyote, I sure like it. I test drove one of the new 5.0s and it was a serious improvement over the 4.6. I was impressed. I drove one of the new F150s with the 6.2 a few days before I flew back over here to Afghanistan. Now THAT, is what I would like to see slapped into a Shelby. I still think it is funny that Chevy has historically come out with competitive cars with much larger displacement engines than Ford, just to surpass them. Yes, the hookup and all that needs to be addressed on the Shelby, but I can work with that with a 6.2 sitting in the engine bay. It would be like the old days back in the late 60s and 70s again. Build it till it's bulging out the roof and hanging over the fenders I say...LOL. We Harley guys have a saying, "There's no replacement for displacement"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat501 Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 Also based on your reasoning when the Z28 comes out and is a faster than the GT500 it means the GT500 is "failing"??? Nothing wrong with having your competition leapfrog you performance wise. I mean after all, the competition could benchmark what level of performance was needed to beat you. To not achieve better performance would be an EPIC FAIL. But not to respond to the new higher benchmark would be what I consider to be "Failing" in a performance sense. So thus far we have performance wise: 2010 Camaro SS > 2010 Mustang GT 4.6 2011 Mustang 5.0 > 2011 Camaro SS 2012 = ? So Chevy trumped Ford the 1st year the Camaro returned and Ford turned around and returned the favor the next model year. So Chevy the ball is in your court for the 2012 model year. You don't want to be underperforming 2 years in a row. We already know the Mustang GT & GT500 are not changing much for the 2012 MY. 2012 Camaro doesn't become available until late Summer but I have not heard of anything new for Camaro SS except for colors. We'll see what 2012 Camaro SS brings to the table soon but if Chevy doesn't raise the bar then I would definitely say they are failing. And don't say the Z/28 is raising the bar because then I'd have to say the 2012 Boss raised the bar. And besides, the insiders here say Ford has a surprise for Chevy's Z/28 once it hits the street. :happy feet:; perhaps a mid-year upgrade for the GT500 ala the KR edition in 1968???? That would be sweet :bandance: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Beyond Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 And don't say the Z/28 is raising the bar because then I'd have to say the 2012 Boss raised the bar.s eet. :happy feet:And besides, the insiders here say Ford has a surprise for Chevy's Z/28 once it hits the street; perhaps a mid-year upgrade for the GT500 ala the KR edition in 1968???? That would be sweet :bandance: TVS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyman Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 TVS? Yeah, the TVS on a factory GT500 would be a seriously fast piece. I had the great opportunity to drive an '08 with a dealer installed TVS and can tell you that this setup is capable of awesome, face disfiguring, roll on acceleration. A TVS with some suspension and tire upgrades would put the current 500 solidly in a class by itself when compared with the go fast stuff from other car manufacturers. A more efficient , upgraded supercharger may not become a reality until the transition to the 5.0 is made in Fords top performing Mustangs. Hopefully consumer demand will support the continuation of these products. I watched the first performance era as a kid, drove the 60s muscle cars in the 70s and watched OPEC, the EPA, and insurance advocates wipe them off them map. Our 2nd muscle car era is a fantastic time with performance levels now wildly beyond anything imagineable from the factory 40 years ago. These are the best of times for guys like us. Enjoy the ride! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat501 Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 Well now we know what it will be called . . . . . . . the ZL1. There are few details about the car though. http://www.autoblog.com/2011/02/09/camaro-zl1-is-the-new-hot-model-in-chicago/ Not that a name really matters but I think GM realized the Boss 302 LS will prevail on the road course and appropriately avoided that embarassment by choosing a different name. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pony23 Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 I like the way it looks. Looks like a Caddy engineer designed the front end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REVENGE Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Intresting read. Can't wait for that bad boy to hit the streets. :happy feet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TN Red Snake Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Intresting read. Can't wait for that bad boy to hit the streets. :happy feet: Me too Revenge. You ever see a cat play with a mouse??? I look forward to seeing one out on the street... God loves Rednecks and Fast Fords...LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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