We got some Competition!!!!

[REAL ONE]

Well, a quick search shows you are wrong. In 2010 Motortrend picked the Camaro as the winner in a comparison with the Challenger and the Mustang GT.

[svttim]

I don't feel like going through all the old magazines but i remember Mustang winning against the Camaro even before the 5.0 engine. Us magazines look for a way to declare the mustang a winner whenever they can. I don 't remember many comparison tests of theV6 cars until Ford got rid of the ancient engine. Now you see many comparison tests with the Mustang with its new V6 being declared the winner.

 

 

I like all muscle cars but there is bias in the coverage in favor of theMustang.

 

 

 

The Z28 would have to totally wipe the floor with the Shelby to be declared the winner. If its close then forget it.

 

 

Actually, the mags love forien cars over any American car, then Chebbys next. Thats well known. So, I would expect the Z to be rated higher even though it will be out performed in evey catagory

[mobeydick]

I don't feel like going through all the old magazines but i remember Mustang winning against the Camaro even before the 5.0 engine. Us magazines look for a way to declare the mustang a winner whenever they can. I don 't remember many comparison tests of theV6 cars until Ford got rid of the ancient engine. Now you see many comparison tests with the Mustang with its new V6 being declared the winner.

 

 

I like all muscle cars but there is bias in the coverage in favor of theMustang.

 

 

 

The Z28 would have to totally wipe the floor with the Shelby to be declared the winner. If its close then forget it.

 

Until I bought my 01 SD I had owned all GM products as well as all my Family. In other words I was GM loyal. I always thought most of the Magazines were biased toward the GM products!

[wildosvt]

I have to agree with Robert. The BOSS and Z/28 were true competitors. Many of you probably do not know what Trans Am was/is (its not a pontiac) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Am_Series

 

BOSS 302 and Z/28 are corner carvers, Period. ZL1 is a more appropriate name for this new SC'ed Camaro so it will then be appropriate to compare it to the GT500.

 

 

MotorTrend or any other mainstream mag are garbage IMHO.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[mach 1 1970]

This reminds me of 1969 (Ford even used the 69 stripe for the Boss ) all over again. Shelby GT350, GT500 and now a great Boss 302 all @ the same dealership . How will they compete for customers ? The Boss will be built for the track but do ok @ the strip also. Now comes the Z/28, this should be real fun for us car guys. Don't know how it will turn out , but it will be fun to watch. Oh did i forget the Challenger gets some new goodies . There are going to be some HOT used cars in 5 years just have to be patient !!!

[TopCat501]

I have to agree with Robert. The BOSS and Z/28 were true competitors. Many of you probably do not know what Trans Am was/is (its not a pontiac) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Am_Series

 

BOSS 302 and Z/28 are corner carvers, Period. ZL1 is a more appropriate name for this new SC'ed Camaro so it will then be appropriate to compare it to the GT500.

 

 

MotorTrend or any other mainstream mag are garbage IMHO.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

 

agree 100% with all the above The GT500 vs Z28 is not the natural rivalry for those who know auto history

 

 

Now who can give us a hint of what Ford has up their sleeve for the GT500 to put the s/c Camaro (whatever it is called) in the rearview mirror. Just a general hint like improved traction or HP or gearing or weight reduction etc B)

[Shipwright]

agree 100% with all the above The GT500 vs Z28 is not the natural rivalry for those who know auto history

 

 

Now who can give us a hint of what Ford has up their sleeve for the GT500 to put the s/c Camaro (whatever it is called) in the rearview mirror. Just a general hint like improved traction or HP or gearing or weight reduction etc B)

 

I vote for weight reduction and wider/better rear tires.

[glroy]

Why is the GT500 even in this mix ?

The the z28 had been chasing the Boss and the GT350 forever

The 500 is a cruiser and needs a lot of work to compete on the track. But its is one bad ass cruiser.

just my 2cents

[TopCat501]

I vote for weight reduction and wider/better rear tires.

 

 

I like the way you think;

much prefer those over a simple increase in HP which is most likely what Ford will do

 

Why is the GT500 even in this mix ?

The the z28 had been chasing the Boss and the GT350 forever

 

 

I think that is what GM finally realized plus I don't think they thought a Boss or GT350 would actually be in existence before they got the Z on the road.

 

Then again, GM changes execs faster than I change underwear, so maybe they finally got them a feller that remembers a little bit of auto history

[Shipwright]

Then again, GM changes execs faster than I change underwear, so maybe they finally got them a feller that remembers a little bit of auto history

 

 

Oh, Snap!

[07SGT5687]

I think that is what GM finally realized plus I don't think they thought a Boss or GT350 would actually be in existence before they got the Z on the road.

 

Then again, GM changes execs faster than I change underwear, so maybe they finally got them a feller that remembers a little bit of auto history

 

 

That's hilarious...

 

I think it's equally hilarious how for years now we've been falsely threatened with the BIG BAD CHEVY CAMARO... will it come maybe... eventually...

 

And I really gotta say... I WANTED to like the looks of the new Camaro too, but it's like one of those deceivingly good lookin' women... from a far... in a crowd, you're like "WOW, nice!"... and then you get up close and instead, you think... "WHOA... Yikes, that is NOT what I thought it was.... keep walkin'!"... you know? -----------> On that note, there has to be some kind of Coyote Ugly vs. Coyote Engine joke here somehow....

 

One more thing, I also get a kick out of how these Gov't Motors folks think the Ford team just made the most recent iteration of the Mustang GT and GT500 and then just kicked their feet up and said, "There, we're done." As far as I'm concerned, if the NEW Camaro competes with, or beats the CURRENT GT/GT500... GOOD... it SHOULD! My tax dollars better be doing SOMETHING over there! What needs to be compared is future vs. future... not whats been around for 2 years vs. what's coming in ... probably 2 years.... GM is still right where they have been.... varying degrees of BEHIND.

[REVENGE]

That's hilarious...

 

I think it's equally hilarious how for years now we've been falsely threatened with the BIG BAD CHEVY CAMARO... will it come maybe... eventually...

 

And I really gotta say... I WANTED to like the looks of the new Camaro too, but it's like one of those deceivingly good lookin' women... from a far... in a crowd, you're like "WOW, nice!"... and then you get up close and instead, you think... "WHOA... Yikes, that is NOT what I thought it was.... keep walkin'!"... you know? -----------> On that note, there has to be some kind of Coyote Ugly vs. Coyote Engine joke here somehow....

 

One more thing, I also get a kick out of how these Gov't Motors folks think the Ford team just made the most recent iteration of the Mustang GT and GT500 and then just kicked their feet up and said, "There, we're done." As far as I'm concerned, if the NEW Camaro competes with, or beats the CURRENT GT/GT500... GOOD... it SHOULD! My tax dollars better be doing SOMETHING over there! What needs to be compared is future vs. future... not whats been around for 2 years vs. what's coming in ... probably 2 years.... GM is still right where they have been.... varying degrees of BEHIND.

 

 

 

Do you actually believe that nonsense? You think GM will make a car to beat the 500 and leave it at that? Ford is not the only company that can improve a car after its debut.

[07SGT5687]

Do you actually believe that nonsense? You think GM will make a car to beat the 500 and leave it at that? Ford is not the only company that can improve a car after its debut.

 

 

Before you get your GM embroidered panties in a bunch... You misunderstood what I said. My point is... GM is in perpetual catch up mode, maybe closer these days, but catch up nonetheless. And by the way, they haven't beaten anything yet. A few specs in a "this is what we're GOING to do" context don't count. When they have a GT500-eater on the street and it's one that can compete/beat year in, year out... leading the way, my tune will change. But so far all they have is - a catch up with last year's model - proposed model. I don't believe there is anything that can prove otherwise at this point. I never said Chevy can't improve, it's just obvious to me at this point that they improve upon themselves... not their competitors. If that's nonsense, so be it. If you want a mess of people to agree with you, I'm afraid you're frequenting the wrong enthusiast forum.... friend.

[Whammer]

I don't really care about the Z28, I don't like the looks of the Camaro, the car does nothing for me. Will it beat the GT500? Perhaps, but who really cares? The next gen mustang will probably run circles around it AND the current mustangs, that's just progress.

I'll just have to be happy to drive my 08 Super Snake around town knowing that it's the ONLY Super Snake within a 100 mile radius.

[BIKEBOY]

Before you get your GM embroidered panties in a bunch... You misunderstood what I said. My point is... GM is in perpetual catch up mode, maybe closer these days, but catch up nonetheless. And by the way, they haven't beaten anything yet. A few specs in a "this is what we're GOING to do" context don't count. When they have a GT500-eater on the street and it's one that can compete/beat year in, year out... leading the way, my tune will change. But so far all they have is - a catch up with last year's model - proposed model. I don't believe there is anything that can prove otherwise at this point. I never said Chevy can't improve, it's just obvious to me at this point that they improve upon themselves... not their competitors. If that's nonsense, so be it. If you want a mess of people to agree with you, I'm afraid you're frequenting the wrong enthusiast forum.... friend.

 

+100...I was wondering if he drives a Ford or a GM car???

[BIKEBOY]

Just wanted to lighten the arguement, discussion here a bit!

 

I dredged this out of an old issue this morning. Motor Trend Aug. 2006.................

 

quote: "It also was the year of the Ford Mustang, and GM answered back with the Corvette coupe."

 

 

 

 

Me: Isn't it curious that way back then, this was the answer to our beloved Pony? The Camaro, (the real comparo) wasn't introduced till '67. :happy feet: OK, carry on!!

 

Sorry for the clarity of the scan...

[07SGT5687]

I dredged this out of an old issue this morning. Motor Trend Aug. 2006.................

 

 

That's some cool nostalgia!

[REVENGE]

Before you get your GM embroidered panties in a bunch... You misunderstood what I said. My point is... GM is in perpetual catch up mode, maybe closer these days, but catch up nonetheless.

 

 

I seem to remember Ford having a problem catching up to the GM cars (Camaro, Trans Am) for much of the 90s and early 2000s. They had such a problem catching up they stopped trying to compete. How quickly they forget.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Before someone trying to derail this discussion with sales figures.......we are talking about performance!

[07SGT5687]

I seem to remember Ford having a problem catching up to the GM cars (Camaro, Trans Am) for much of the 90s and early 2000s. They had such a problem catching up they stopped trying to compete. How quickly they forget.

 

Before someone trying to derail this discussion with sales figures.......we are talking about performance!

 

 

Talk about nonsense! You're right, I DID forget about those Camaro's and Trans Am's of the early 2000's... AND SO DID EVERYONE ELSE! That's why they DISCONTINUED THEM! Ford stopped trying to complete, huh? I seem to remember a certain 2005 Mustang coming shortly thereafter that was arguably the most successful muscle car of the last... what? 30 years? Ever maybe?

[TopCat501]

I seem to remember Ford having a problem catching up to the GM cars (Camaro, Trans Am) for much of the 90s and early 2000s. They had such a problem catching up they stopped trying to compete. How quickly they forget.

 

 

 

Before someone trying to derail this discussion with sales figures.......we are talking about performance!

 

 

Why do you continually try to over & over????

 

You make blanket statements like

 

"They know that no matter how much their car out performs the Mustang the mags will still find a way to declare the Mustang the winner. Knowing that its laughable to think GM would avoid calling their top dog Z28 because of fear of losing some comparo. They have been losing all the comparisons to the Mustang for years ....even when they had the faster car. Nothing will change. I expect the Z28 will come out with 600hp and great traction and be faster than the GT500 in the straight line and road course and will still be losing all comparison tests done by the US magazines.

 

that got disproved quickly with the link to the Motor Trend comparo where the Camaro won

 

Now you're declaring Mustang had nothing to beat the late 90's & 2000's Camaro ???? Have you ever heard of the Cobra R models? No Camaro of the time was worthy of even holding the pot that a Cobra R pissed in. Vettes & Vipers were its main performance competition not weakass Camaro SS or Z/28s

 

Oh and before you try and derail this discussion with $$ cost . . . . . . . we are talking about performance

 

Here I'll make it easy read this link and learn

 

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0004_ford_svt_mustang_cobra_r/index.html

 

I must say, I forget sometimes how much we Mustang/Ford guys owe John Coletti. He was definitely balls-to-the-wall about performance and he gave us some memorable cars from SVT

[REVENGE]

Talk about nonsense! You're right, I DID forget about those Camaro's and Trans Am's of the early 2000's... AND SO DID EVERYONE ELSE! That's why they DISCONTINUED THEM! Ford stopped trying to complete, huh? I seem to remember a certain 2005 Mustang coming shortly thereafter that was arguably the most successful muscle car of the last... what? 30 years? Ever maybe?

 

 

 

Let me get this straight. You are saying the mustang at the time was a better performer than the 4 gen camaro? Since you mentioned discontinued lets compare the Mustang GT of 2002 with the Z28 of 2002. Do you really want to do that? Don't mention some limited edition Cobra 9 either. How many of those did they make 300?

[svttim]

Let me get this straight. You are saying the mustang at the time was a better performer than the 4 gen camaro? Since you mentioned discontinued lets compare the Mustang GT of 2002 with the Z28 of 2002. Do you really want to do that? Don't mention some limited edition Cobra 9 either. How many of those did they make 300?

 

 

 

Could look at the closest comparo, 2002 Camaro Z28 Vs 2003 Cobra, Whos catching up??

[SGT0225]

Why do you continually try to over & over????

 

You make blanket statements like

 

"They know that no matter how much their car out performs the Mustang the mags will still find a way to declare the Mustang the winner. Knowing that its laughable to think GM would avoid calling their top dog Z28 because of fear of losing some comparo. They have been losing all the comparisons to the Mustang for years ....even when they had the faster car. Nothing will change. I expect the Z28 will come out with 600hp and great traction and be faster than the GT500 in the straight line and road course and will still be losing all comparison tests done by the US magazines.

 

that got disproved quickly with the link to the Motor Trend comparo where the Camaro won

 

Now you're declaring Mustang had nothing to beat the late 90's & 2000's Camaro ???? Have you ever heard of the Cobra R models? No Camaro of the time was worthy of even holding the pot that a Cobra R pissed in. Vettes & Vipers were its main performance competition not weakass Camaro SS or Z/28s

 

Oh and before you try and derail this discussion with $$ cost . . . . . . . we are talking about performance

 

Here I'll make it easy read this link and learn

 

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0004_ford_svt_mustang_cobra_r/index.html

 

I must say, I forget sometimes how much we Mustang/Ford guys owe John Coletti. He was definitely balls-to-the-wall about performance and he gave us some memorable cars from SVT

 

FORD didn't produce enough Cobra R vehicles to give to the masses. the first year was 100 cars, then 2nd time around was 250 cars. Good cars, great cars but very limited numbers.

[frydguy79]

crapmaro vs mustang hands down winner since 1964?? of course it's the mustang

total sales numbers will tell you that

hands down winner since 1967?? STILL THE MUSTANG!!!

 

who cares what crapmaro does?? not me

[07SGT5687]

1.

 

Let me get this straight. You are saying the mustang at the time was a better performer than the 4 gen camaro?

 

No. You'll find no where that I said that. But why praytell would a Camaro that supposedly dominated the Mustang... all the sudden get discontinued? Huh. Big engine? Yes. Junk? Yes.

 

B.

 

Since you mentioned discontinued lets compare the Mustang GT of 2002 with the Z28 of 2002. Do you really want to do that?

 

Okay, if you want to try and make a point.... first start with trying to make sense. Was the Mustang discontinued in 2002... I didn't remember that.

 

Third

 

Don't mention some limited edition Cobra 9 either. How many of those did they make 300?

 

 

I've never heard of a Cobra 9. I don't think they made one. Wait, was that like the GT-R Mustang? I did see one of those on Youtube. I think it had a VTEC.

 

Here's the deal... if you get the opportunity to jump in a time machine and go back to 2002... you probably should. Seems like that would be your happy place. That is, the only time in recent memory when the Camaro had a slight edge on the Mustang and then shat itself and faded into nothingness... Is that Camaro back from the dead? We'll see... but it certainly deserves NO accolades yet. I say DO something... THEN get recognition for it. Like the many different generations of Mustang have. Not all... but most.

[clark17357]

As gear heads, we are lucky that the Z28 is coming back. We have something to compete against and something that will keep improving development of the breed.

 

Don't worry about the GT500 falling behind - it's been well known that the Z28 is coming.

 

I wish the Z28 was developed as a road racer though.

Robert is spot on. I was there for the original Ford vs. Chevy wars in the 60's and one would be wise to avoid thinking that GM is incapable of producing a truly competitive car. The fact of the matter was that, showroom stock, the 60's GM cars were faster than Fords. I ran a highly modified '66 Fastback Mustang and held my own with that set up.

 

I, for one, would like to see a new Z28 that was built with respect for its 60's counterpart. Absent non-Ford DNA getting into the muscle car gene pool, one runs the chance of in-breeding and that is hardly ever good for anything other more jokes about a certain area of our country.

 

Jim

[Dubstang]

This thread is very entertaining. I love that a Government Motors lover is trying to argue that the Camaro is better than a Mustang. It just goes to show why the company had to be bailed out. All of it's costumers are clearly insane! How can you argue that a car that has not even been produced is better than an existing proven one? Again, insane. Suck it GM.

[07SGT5687]

Suck it GM.

 

:happy feet:

[BIKEBOY]

:happy feet:

 

Awww c'mon...that's not nice!

 

I've owned several Vettes and a couple older Camaros, (68 and a 69) . That's it for GM products, come to think of it? And, we are being pretty hard on GM here. I would bet alot of guys here on our forum have a GM car in their garage, if not for it being the wifes car? Warren just bought a new Buick Enclave, I think it is, for the wife. And he got the FIRST publicly offered GT350 from SAI...#19, I think? So we should be careful how tough we are on General Motors. Also don't forget that Lee Iacoca, quite possibly the 'father' of the Mustang, was a very highly respected employee of the General, back in the day!

 

Don't get me wrong....if I cut myself, I have a puddle of blue on the floor! I'm just saying, there is a long history of competition in the musclecar world between our two companies...not to mention the third company, (Chrysler), and although it's fun to tease about the Camaro, they are and will be a contender.

 

 

edit- Oops...almost forgot. My first freakin' car was a '68 Impellar. 4Door!!!

[REVENGE]

1.

 

 

 

No. You'll find no where that I said that. But why praytell would a Camaro that supposedly dominated the Mustang... all the sudden get discontinued? Huh. Big engine? Yes. Junk? Yes.

 

B.

 

 

 

Okay, if you want to try and make a point.... first start with trying to make sense. Was the Mustang discontinued in 2002... I didn't remember that.

 

Third

 

 

 

I've never heard of a Cobra 9. I don't think they made one. Wait, was that like the GT-R Mustang? I did see one of those on Youtube. I think it had a VTEC.

 

Here's the deal... if you get the opportunity to jump in a time machine and go back to 2002... you probably should. Seems like that would be your happy place. That is, the only time in recent memory when the Camaro had a slight edge on the Mustang and then shat itself and faded into nothingness... Is that Camaro back from the dead? We'll see... but it certainly deserves NO accolades yet. I say DO something... THEN get recognition for it. Like the many different generations of Mustang have. Not all... but most.

 

 

 

I selected 2002 because that was the last year of the Camaro . I just used that year because someone mentioned discontinued. Where did I say the Mustang was cancelled? I might have used that year be basically the 4 gen Camaros were faster than the competing mustangs. Its also amazing how some people want to move the discussion off of performance and talk about the Camaro being discontinued.

 

 

I was referring to the Cobra R. Don't know how I pressed 9 instead.

 

Unlike some people here I actually like all the muscle cars. They only reason I got dragged into this was because some people with short memories seem to think GM cannot make a car that can compete with and even beat Ford. Some people will be very upset when the Z28 comes out and does what it is supposed to do. :happy feet: