Lutzcat Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 Members might want to reconsider leaving the TCS off while in traffic. My hands are still shaking from an incident yesterday afternoon. I was taking my brother-in-law for his first ride in my Shelby on some back roads, of course I had the TCS off to show him my traction issues. I was in a very safe environment, no traffic, houses, etc, just country roads. On the way back home I pulled up to a stop sign to make a right on to a 6 lane with very heavy traffic running about 55 mph, after a min. or two there was an opening on the right side lane, right when I pulled out, a HD made a radical lane change into my lane, I had no choice but to floor it, by the time I hit 2nd I was at a 33 degrees angle looking at a Dodge ram that was also about to pull out too. I'll never forget the look on the guy's face, he did have the reflexes to hit the brakes, thank God! Got it straightened out, but I think the guy on the hog will think twice before making a lane change like that, I slowed just to take a look at him, looked like a ghost. If I had the traction control on, I don't believe I would have been sideways staring at the Ram. but I think having the tires already heated up helped too. One other big plus, NO WHEEL HOP, she did good when needed!!!!!!!!!! No need to say, the brother-in-law will not ride with me anymore. I WILL NOT LEAVE THE TCS OFF in normal driving conditions again. Lutzcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
150man Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 I think that's a wise decision! However caution is still needed. A few weeks ago, I started getting sideways with the TC on, in straight line acceleration in 2nd gear, on an on ramp. (It was cold though, about 10F). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1BADGT500 Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 Great story. Glad it all worked out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckstang Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Hmmm, you are a perfect example of why they make traction control systems. A true driver uses his right foot as the traction control. IMO you run into more potential problems with traction control ON. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnut Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Members might want to reconsider leaving the TCS off while in traffic. My hands are still shaking from an incident yesterday afternoon. I was taking my brother-in-law for his first ride in my Shelby on some back roads, of course I had the TCS off to show him my traction issues. I was in a very safe environment, no traffic, houses, etc, just country roads. On the way back home I pulled up to a stop sign to make a right on to a 6 lane with very heavy traffic running about 55 mph, after a min. or two there was an opening on the right side lane, right when I pulled out, a HD made a radical lane change into my lane, I had no choice but to floor it, by the time I hit 2nd I was at a 33 degrees angle looking at a Dodge ram that was also about to pull out too. I'll never forget the look on the guy's face, he did have the reflexes to hit the brakes, thank God! Got it straightened out, but I think the guy on the hog will think twice before making a lane change like that, I slowed just to take a look at him, looked like a ghost. If I had the traction control on, I don't believe I would have been sideways staring at the Ram. but I think having the tires already heated up helped too. One other big plus, NO WHEEL HOP, she did good when needed!!!!!!!!!! No need to say, the brother-in-law will not ride with me anymore. I WILL NOT LEAVE THE TCS OFF in normal driving conditions again. Lutzcat I did mine making a left, car came out of no where (or at least that's what my wife hollered) , no tc on, a little too hard on the gas and I was looking at the street light. Corrected to the right, then the left, then right. I should have been wearing Depends. Leave mine on all the time now and my wife home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianspony Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 I've yet to use my TCS. I do know the feeling of going sideways and it's a scarry feeling. If I understand correctly when the TCS is on it will prevent one side from pulling doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnut Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 I've yet to use my TCS. I do know the feeling of going sideways and it's a scarry feeling. If I understand correctly when the TCS is on it will prevent one side from pulling doesn't it? When the computer senses severe wheel spin, it is supposed to take power away. On dry pavement it doesn't seem to sense it as well under wide open throttle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutzcat Posted February 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Hmmm, you are a perfect example of why they make traction control systems. A true driver uses his right foot as the traction control. IMO you run into more potential problems with traction control ON. Chuck, I completely disagree, I am a retired factory rider for HD. I've got quite a few miles under my belt on Talladega and Daytona, 128k to be exact, nearly more than Richard Petty did, so I think I have the eye to foot coordination under control. Not being a smart ass, but under an emergency situation the brain can only handle so many variables at one time and the traction control was best to be on at that time. Lutzcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnut Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 I am afraid I am with Lutzcat on this one. When you are just driving along listening to the tunes and picking your nose, shit happens, leave the traction control on. It's just smart advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutzcat Posted February 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 I've yet to use my TCS. I do know the feeling of going sideways and it's a scarry feeling. If I understand correctly when the TCS is on it will prevent one side from pulling doesn't it? Suppose to keep the rear tires from spinning over a certain amount, I've only tried once or twice just playing with it on trying to get the rear end to kick out, but not enough to know for sure. Lutzcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x-Boss429 Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Everybody is different concerning what they are comfortable with. Just my opinion, not right for everyone, but the first thing I do is turn my TCS off. I used to race and I want to be able to feel the car. Only wheel hop I have ever had is with TCS on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Roger Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 My traction control doesn't seem to do a damn thing. Is there a noticeable difference when you turn the TC off? I have never noticed a difference myself. I get wheel spin with ease in first and second gear, and I even get it in 4th gear at 60 mph when the roads are wet. I'm thinking of taking my baby in for a check this spring, but I don't want the dealer's mechanic or writer to say, "Test your traction control. My pleasure!" only to find 1/2" less tread when I pick her up. :angry2: Does anyone here have any thoughts on this topic?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakeplissken Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 By 2010 all vehicles sold in the USA must have traction control and stability management on them by law. There is a reason for this it saves lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamer_GT500 Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 My traction control doesn't seem to do a damn thing. Is there a noticeable difference when you turn the TC off? I have never noticed a difference myself. I get wheel spin with ease in first and second gear, and I even get it in 4th gear at 60 mph when the roads are wet. I'm thinking of taking my baby in for a check this spring, but I don't want the dealer's mechanic or writer to say, "Test your traction control. My pleasure!" only to find 1/2" less tread when I pick her up. :angry2: Does anyone here have any thoughts on this topic?? Maybe your TC doesn't work, with my car I can get wheel spin with TC on but only for a short time and I do not have to back off on the throtle to keep from loosing control of the car. I have gotten the rear end to kick out but totally controlable, I am a little afraid to take the TC off and punch it to the floor because I am sure I would be looking at the ditch and I do not want to take the car on an off road trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianspony Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Maybe your TC doesn't work, with my car I can get wheel spin with TC on but only for a short time and I do not have to back off on the throtle to keep from loosing control of the car. I have gotten the rear end to kick out but totally controlable, I am a little afraid to take the TC off and punch it to the floor because I am sure I would be looking at the ditch and I do not want to take the car on an off road trip. The ditch is exactly where my son and I were heading when I thought I'd get a second gear chirp for him. We heard more than a chirp. HA! HA! Wide country road with no other traffic at the time thank God. I'm going to experiment a little when I put it back on the road in April. Baby has power for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropping__Chronic Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 The traction control in the Cobra's are 'liberal', meaning that they were designed with the intention of trying to save you in a bad scenario, but allow you to have fun at the same time. For instance, you can lay a burnout, but if you start going too far sideways it will then kick in and retard the ignition and start shutting you down to help correct. It works especially well in the rain. Some of you guys may feel like your traction control does or doesn't work, and for those that don't I highly recommend taking your car out to a large open lot and seeing where the threshholds of your car are and what it can do so you are ready for the unknown when it happens. (getting sideways with 500hp and correcting it) See, the thing about Traction Control is it's a double edged sword. Yes in some instances it can certainly help, but I have had instances where it almost killed me. When you are in dire need of all your power, applied to the pavement, and have to get out of a bad situation or around something that is about to go really wrong, and your engine bogs down and that TC light comes on you will really know true fear for your baby!!! After that happened to me, I took my car out (04 Cobra) to a nice big lot and put it through it's paces to know where and how it reacted with the TC on and off. I severely encourage all of you to explore the reasonable limits of your car so you can use it as an extention of your hand when the time comes and your life is on the line. If you keep your car in the garage and drive it too rarely, you will have scary moments like the original one in this thread because you aren't used to the power, the car, or what it's going to do when the pulse is pounding and you drop the hammer at an odd angle. Peace and be safe, just thought I'd offer my .02 cents in this interesting thread. GLAD YOUR CAR AND YOU ARE SAFE!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckstang Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Chuck, I completely disagree, I am a retired factory rider for HD. I've got quite a few miles under my belt on Talladega and Daytona, 128k to be exact, nearly more than Richard Petty did, so I think I have the eye to foot coordination under control. Not being a smart ass, but under an emergency situation the brain can only handle so many variables at one time and the traction control was best to be on at that time.Lutzcat What I meant was, your right foot regardless of circumstances IMO will always be a better "traction control" system than what Ford will ever offer. I just do not like computer intervention, Im old school Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckstang Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 My traction control doesn't seem to do a damn thing. Is there a noticeable difference when you turn the TC off? I have never noticed a difference myself. I get wheel spin with ease in first and second gear, and I even get it in 4th gear at 60 mph when the roads are wet. I'm thinking of taking my baby in for a check this spring, but I don't want the dealer's mechanic or writer to say, "Test your traction control. My pleasure!" only to find 1/2" less tread when I pick her up. :angry2: Does anyone here have any thoughts on this topic?? Ya, like mentioned earlier, go to an open parking lot late at night and go have some fun! Then youll see if your traction control is working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutzcat Posted February 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Ya, like mentioned earlier, go to an open parking lot late at night and go have some fun! Then youll see if your traction control is working. I totally agree and to really get the feel of the car on it limitations, handling, braking, etc. The problem is finding a parking lot without poles, they hurt!!!!!! Lutzcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordrules Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 This is a great post for those of us with less experience. Thanks guys. More on this would be appreciated. Even some driving advice as I haven't got behind the wheel of mine yet. (Husband is the driver) I want to drive it but realize the power and sure don't want to wreck it or anyone else's vehicle. I'm not a bad driver with a car but I haven't got rocket experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutzcat Posted February 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 This is a great post for those of us with less experience.Thanks guys. More on this would be appreciated. Even some driving advice as I haven't got behind the wheel of mine yet. (Husband is the driver) I want to drive it but realize the power and sure don't want to wreck it or anyone Else's vehicle. I'm not a bad driver with a car but I haven't got rocket experience. What I would recommend is to find a very large paved area with no light poles, take a few cones with you. Start out with braking, start with 30 mph emergency stops, then 60 mph. Take a few breaks so not to over heat the rotors. You'll eventually get the feel for maximum braking. Take measurements on the first 2 or 3 and then your last 2, you'll be surprised. Then try accelerating into turns just to find out when the rear end starts to break or it starts to drift, start out around 30 and then proceed up to what ever you feel comfortable with. Then just have fun with it to get the feel of it! Lutzcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksmach1 Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 5 minutes from my home is a small FBO with a nice runway. I spoke to the the guy who controls the runway and asked if I could see what my GT500 can do. His eyes lit up and said it was possible if the owner agreed and "if he can make a run". Still debating on letting him behind the wheel. I would really like to know what it feels like with TC off and Evo mods installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five Oh B Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 I am one of the guys who does NOT like traction control. I always turned it off 1st thing in my 2003 Mach 1 after having some scary episodes with it left on. I've already reprogrammed the PCM in my 2007 Mustang GT to permanently disable traction control. The only time I like traction control is in heavy rain at highway speeds, but that's so rare I just opted to do without it. I guess the biggest reason I don't like the TC is that you really need to be able to steer a Mustang with the rear tires sometimes, and TC kills that ability and tries to point you in a direction that it thinks is safe versus what you are trying to do. I grew up without onboard nannies and Mustangs are so light in the back that I just grew accustomed to driving with the tail hanging out around corners. Same reason that I refuse to buy a front wheel drive car. Have I ever screwed up and spun out a car where TC would have saved me from spinning? Sure have! But that was back when I was young and inexperienced with vehicle dynamics. That's why experience in high horsepower cars is essential. I've spent over 25 years driving to the limits of every car I've had. I've owned a 550hp Nova, a 425hp GTO, a variety of other musclecars, and I've explored the limits of traction way more often than most ever will. I've also completed a 3-day stint at the Bob Bondurant School of High Performance Driving in Chandler, AZ a few years ago where I learned quite a lot through plenty of on-track dynamics (no light poles or traffic to worry about). As others have advised, you really need to spend some time in a desolate area pounding on your car with the TC on and off to know where the limits are, and how those limits relate to your driving style. Many of you will decide that TC is perfect for you, while others will decide that TC is detrimental. I'm just glad there's a switch to allow us to make that decision for ourselves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropping__Chronic Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 B)--> QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Feb 27 2007, 03:16 PM) 107239[/snapback] I am one of the guys who does NOT like traction control. I always turned it off 1st thing in my 2003 Mach 1 after having some scary episodes with it left on. I've already reprogrammed the PCM in my 2007 Mustang GT to permanently disable traction control. The only time I like traction control is in heavy rain at highway speeds, but that's so rare I just opted to do without it. I guess the biggest reason I don't like the TC is that you really need to be able to steer a Mustang with the rear tires sometimes, and TC kills that ability and tries to point you in a direction that it thinks is safe versus what you are trying to do. I grew up without onboard nannies and Mustangs are so light in the back that I just grew accustomed to driving with the tail hanging out around corners. Same reason that I refuse to buy a front wheel drive car. Have I ever screwed up and spun out a car where TC would have saved me from spinning? Sure have! But that was back when I was young and inexperienced with vehicle dynamics. That's why experience in high horsepower cars is essential. I've spent over 25 years driving to the limits of every car I've had. I've owned a 550hp Nova, a 425hp GTO, a variety of other musclecars, and I've explored the limits of traction way more often than most ever will. I've also completed a 3-day stint at the Bob Bondurant School of High Performance Driving in Chandler, AZ a few years ago where I learned quite a lot through plenty of on-track dynamics (no light poles or traffic to worry about). As others have advised, you really need to spend some time in a desolate area pounding on your car with the TC on and off to know where the limits are, and how those limits relate to your driving style. Many of you will decide that TC is perfect for you, while others will decide that TC is detrimental. I'm just glad there's a switch to allow us to make that decision for ourselves! We park our cars in the same garage. /hats off Some of you guys seem scared of your cars, you need to get over that fear by getting comfortable with them or when something does go wrong you won't be prepared to react to it, and won't know how to use your cars abundant power to help you. Be safe out there, but know your beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five Oh B Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Be safe out there, but know your beast. Reminds me of dogs. I'm a dog owner and I have a deep respect for dogs. As such, I "know the beast." It's the people that are afraid of dogs (and trust me, dogs can sense/smell fear) that get bit. Much the same with a powerful car. Have a deep respect for that horsepower, but master it and don't fear it, and as Dropping_Chronic says "know your beast." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutzcat Posted February 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Okay, Okay!!!! missing the topic of my first post. I'm not talking about 1/4 mile drag racing. Try this in your car, start off, turn 90 degrees onto a straight line, in the middle of the turn you have to floor it. I think this would be a great competition, call it 1/32 mile turn drag. TCS on and then off. Lutzcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five Oh B Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Okay, Okay!!!! missing the topic of my first post. I'm not talking about 1/4 mile drag racing. Try this in your car, start off, turn 90 degrees onto a straight line, in the middle of the turn you have to floor it. I think this would be a great competition, call it 1/32 mile turn drag. TCS on and then off. Lutzcat Not missing your topic, at all. Like I said previously: I guess the biggest reason I don't like the TC is that you really need to be able to steer a Mustang with the rear tires sometimes, and TC kills that ability and tries to point you in a direction that it thinks is safe versus what you are trying to do. Some of us are masters of driving a car with the ass end hanging out sideways while drifting around a corner. TC takes that away from us. When I attended the Bob Bondurant class, I drove then-new 2003 SVT Cobras and Corvettes at what I thought were high speeds around their medium sized track. 100-110 mph down the straight, then hit the corners around 60-70 mph thinking I was fast. I was keeping all 4 tires planted firmly. Then I jumped in the passenger seat and had an instructor take me around the track for some hot laps. Anyone who's done this knows how insane it feels. The instructor can actually take those same corners at 90+ by hanging the back end loose to dial in more oversteer very precisely and safely. Taught me that the fastest and safest way around a super fast corner can certainly be by drifting or sliding. Can't do that with traction control on. Plus, if you know your car well enough, you will know exactly when to expect the back end to step out if the traction control is off. However, with it on, the computer will intervene without warning to the driver - that fact makes traction control VERY dangerous to an experienced driver. There should only be one "brain" commanding the helm, and I want that to be the brain in my head - not the car's PCM. Now to the opposite end of the driving spectrum. Those who are not comfortable driving at anything over 8 tenths are best served by leaving traction control on all the time. Those of us comfortable driving near the limit will simply steer (with front and/or rear tires, as needed) around you as we pass and wave goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x-Boss429 Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 B)--> QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Feb 27 2007, 10:24 PM) 107471[/snapback] Not missing your topic, at all. Like I said previously: I guess the biggest reason I don't like the TC is that you really need to be able to steer a Mustang with the rear tires sometimes, and TC kills that ability and tries to point you in a direction that it thinks is safe versus what you are trying to do. Some of us are masters of driving a car with the ass end hanging out sideways while drifting around a corner. TC takes that away from us. When I attended the Bob Bondurant class, I drove then-new 2003 SVT Cobras and Corvettes at what I thought were high speeds around their medium sized track. 100-110 mph down the straight, then hit the corners around 60-70 mph thinking I was fast. I was keeping all 4 tires planted firmly. Then I jumped in the passenger seat and had an instructor take me around the track for some hot laps. Anyone who's done this knows how insane it feels. The instructor can actually take those same corners at 90+ by hanging the back end loose to dial in more oversteer very precisely and safely. Taught me that the fastest and safest way around a super fast corner can certainly be by drifting or sliding. Can't do that with traction control on. Plus, if you know your car well enough, you will know exactly when to expect the back end to step out if the traction control is off. However, with it on, the computer will intervene without warning to the driver - that fact makes traction control VERY dangerous to an experienced driver. There should only be one "brain" commanding the helm, and I want that to be the brain in my head - not the car's PCM. Now to the opposite end of the driving spectrum. Those who are not comfortable driving at anything over 8 tenths are best served by leaving traction control on all the time. Those of us comfortable driving near the limit will simply steer (with front and/or rear tires, as needed) around you as we pass and wave goodbye. Nicely stated Five Oh B! This is not a criticism of those who feel more comfortable with TCS on. I just love the feel of a controlled drift! Here's to 500HP........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropping__Chronic Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 B)--> QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Feb 27 2007, 09:24 PM) 107471[/snapback] Not missing your topic, at all. Like I said previously: I guess the biggest reason I don't like the TC is that you really need to be able to steer a Mustang with the rear tires sometimes, and TC kills that ability and tries to point you in a direction that it thinks is safe versus what you are trying to do. Some of us are masters of driving a car with the ass end hanging out sideways while drifting around a corner. TC takes that away from us. When I attended the Bob Bondurant class, I drove then-new 2003 SVT Cobras and Corvettes at what I thought were high speeds around their medium sized track. 100-110 mph down the straight, then hit the corners around 60-70 mph thinking I was fast. I was keeping all 4 tires planted firmly. Then I jumped in the passenger seat and had an instructor take me around the track for some hot laps. Anyone who's done this knows how insane it feels. The instructor can actually take those same corners at 90+ by hanging the back end loose to dial in more oversteer very precisely and safely. Taught me that the fastest and safest way around a super fast corner can certainly be by drifting or sliding. Can't do that with traction control on. Plus, if you know your car well enough, you will know exactly when to expect the back end to step out if the traction control is off. However, with it on, the computer will intervene without warning to the driver - that fact makes traction control VERY dangerous to an experienced driver. There should only be one "brain" commanding the helm, and I want that to be the brain in my head - not the car's PCM. Now to the opposite end of the driving spectrum. Those who are not comfortable driving at anything over 8 tenths are best served by leaving traction control on all the time. Those of us comfortable driving near the limit will simply steer (with front and/or rear tires, as needed) around you as we pass and wave goodbye. Right on the money again. I know my car and what it's handling and what it's going to do flat out and otherwise. I think to drive something like this daily / at all, you should be extremely comfortable with it and know what it can do. Great post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillycrashmann Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 My traction control doesn't seem to do a damn thing. Is there a noticeable difference when you turn the TC off? I have never noticed a difference myself. I get wheel spin with ease in first and second gear, and I even get it in 4th gear at 60 mph when the roads are wet. I'm thinking of taking my baby in for a check this spring, but I don't want the dealer's mechanic or writer to say, "Test your traction control. My pleasure!" only to find 1/2" less tread when I pick her up. :angry2: Does anyone here have any thoughts on this topic?? In anticipation of future runs with rivals, I was practicing the launch with TC on. The launch felt the same at 3K, 3500 and 4K rpm. Unimpressive and some wheel hop. I Flipped the TC off and its a different car. Brought it out at 3k smoking all the way and it takes some driving skill to handle it as it should. Wheel hop was noticably less too. When the weather cooperates I'll try it at 2500 TC iff, that should be the combination for blacktop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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