FRPP Intake Manifold

[07SGT]

You guys are over analyzing. The numbers were produced both by Ford Racing on their dyno and also produced by MM&FF on there dyno. You might as well be just as suspect of the numbers that are claimed for our cars as delivered if you can't believe what was tested. I think they must have had a typo or someone confused Test 1 with another as 360 with no mods is not realistic. However, MM&FF and Ford both followed a consistent methodology and produced similar results.

 

Andy, you will love the Hot Rod cams. They are not as aggressive as other cams, but they make a great sound, will rock the car at a stop light and really wake the engine up. They are also nicely compatible with an SC and will let the SC do its job. Just remember that the 4.6 is considered good to 550hp but that is getting dicey. You will need to build the bottom end or swap in an aluminator short block to handle any more than that.

 

 

Some might call it over analyzing, or paralysis by analysis, but a 550 HP stock block is, in my opinion, living on borrowed time. Like pulling the pin on a grenade and how long can you hold the spoon down. And once you put a hole in the block it will certainly hurt the value of the SGT for the long term collectability . I agree if you can afford to build a forged lower end and the cnc heads and the whipple and the new intake, etc, etc, etc, it would be best. But most cannot afford. So we limit ourselves to the lower boost SC or stick with NA.

[SGT0225]

Some might call it over analyzing, or paralysis by analysis, but a 550 HP stock block is, in my opinion, living on borrowed time. Like pulling the pin on a grenade and how long can you hold the spoon down. And once you put a hole in the block it will certainly hurt the value of the SGT for the long term collectability . I agree if you can afford to build a forged lower end and the cnc heads and the whipple and the new intake, etc, etc, etc, it would be best. But most cannot afford. So we limit ourselves to the lower boost SC or stick with NA.

 

How many people put this on their car? I'm looking for pictures.

[07SGT]

I think most that have supercharged have gone with the 550 HP whipple.

[SGT0225]

I think most that have supercharged have gone with the 550 HP whipple.

 

Who went with a polished whipple? Do you think it was worth the extra cash?

[dgomes]

I thought that kit of Intake, Heads, etc was boasting 440 hp? You were saying 375 hp for N/A.

I'd love to have 440 hp on a N/A motor.....where did I miss something or are they claiming something out of this kit that is not true?

 

http://www.fordracin.../m-fr4-s197.htm

 

 

I have been leaning the 550 Whipple, but like the middle road of a N/A at 440 and I don't have to ship out to SAI to get it done.

SAI is the only place I'd go for the S/C install, and that is a pricy shipping bill, too. I like the lower level of internal strain from N/A...mine is a driven keeper. I had the last one for 22 years, so this one's not going anywhere except down the road with me in it about once a week!

 

Any help on that 440 HP number & how to get it?

 

Thanks,

Andy.

 

 

Andy: If you are interested in having the Ford Racing/Whipple 550 hp Supercharger installed at Tasca we are willing to pick up the shipping cost one way. We have done a ton of these with no harm done to the internals of an engine, also if the Supercharger is installed here you get the GT/SC side stripes, Engine Plate, Printed dyno sheet from our DynoJet dyno and the car will be in the Shelby registry. If you would like to set something up or have more questions feel free to email me dgomes@tasca.com.

 

Thanks

Dennis

[JeffIsHereToo]

I posted this to the poll in the other thread but wanted to follow-up here in case you "smarter than me" guys didn't see the poll:

 

90% of the time I'm driving my car speed is an illusion. In other words I don't get to exhibit that "boost of speed" and frankly 90% of the time I've tried to do that it's been while tempted in a less than safe situation.

 

So...now follow me on this...

 

I'm thinking what I really want is a little HP improvement to set the car apart from the others but more so I want that sound of the 60's. That low rumble of the engine. Personally the wine of a SC does NOTHING for me. I want to drive into a Saturday cruise night and have all eyes, and ears, turned to my car.

 

So...given my desire is less about speed and more about the everyday characeteristics of the car I'm thinking I will keep it NA and add the following:

 

This:

 

http://www.fordracin.../m-fr5-s197.htm

 

Or This:

 

http://www.fordracin.../m-fr4-s197.htm

 

Headers:

 

http://www.fordracin...DS197C&CartID=4

 

KR Muffler with 85 MM CAI:

http://www.fordracingpartsdirect.com/FORD_RACING_MUSTANG_GT_POWER_UPGRADE_PACKAGE_p/m-fr1-mgt1.htm

 

I think with the better internals in the end I'll have a MUCH better engine longevity wise, and if I truly need to "punch it" I can always slip a little bottle of go-go juice someplace.

 

So with new plugs, injectors, etc., looking at $6K plus install.

 

Thoughts....or should I just STFU and get a SC too?

[EL SHELBY]

I plan to stay NA as well. I cannot afford the $12k to get the SC from Shelby so I'll stick with the NA route. And as you said. You cannot use the power on the streets.

 

My plan was to go with your option one with long tubes. If you do the same, buy the manifold, cams, and TB kit from CJ Pony Parts and save yourself $300.

[07SGT]

Most of us cannot afford a 12+K SC, nor can we afford to repair/replace when the 550 HP hand grendade eventually goes boom with the stock internals. I previously made a suggestion to SAI and I think it is still a tremendous idea. SAI should offer a special package with the FRPP parts installed (Hot rod cams, billet TB, intake manifold, spark plugs, cnc heads-optional and ..... This would give a great sound, less than a SC, great longevity and we need a special code. Rather than the SGT/SC it would be the SGT/K. Why K? Because K is the old 289 hi-po engine block code. SAI would add it to the registry and make money on the registry, the parts, and the install. Win-win. It would be reminiscent of the early GT 350's. Bottom line is SAI is always looking for a way to make money and we are looking for ways to spend money on our Shelby's. What's wrong with this picture? Again, win-win. If SAI does not hop on this then we will just have the FRPP parts installed locally and for less. SAI should jump on this and make the money. There would also be a certificate and plate for inside the engine compartment certifiying the work was done by SAI and is in the registry.

[JT93]

I posted this to the poll in the other thread but wanted to follow-up here in case you "smarter than me" guys didn't see the poll:

 

90% of the time I'm driving my car speed is an illusion. In other words I don't get to exhibit that "boost of speed" and frankly 90% of the time I've tried to do that it's been while tempted in a less than safe situation.

 

So...now follow me on this...

 

I'm thinking what I really want is a little HP improvement to set the car apart from the others but more so I want that sound of the 60's. That low rumble of the engine. Personally the wine of a SC does NOTHING for me. I want to drive into a Saturday cruise night and have all eyes, and ears, turned to my car.

 

So...given my desire is less about speed and more about the everyday characeteristics of the car I'm thinking I will keep it NA and add the following:

 

This:

 

http://www.fordracin.../m-fr5-s197.htm

 

Or This:

 

http://www.fordracin.../m-fr4-s197.htm

 

Headers:

 

http://www.fordracin...DS197C&CartID=4

 

KR Muffler with 85 MM CAI:

http://www.fordracingpartsdirect.com/FORD_RACING_MUSTANG_GT_POWER_UPGRADE_PACKAGE_p/m-fr1-mgt1.htm

 

I think with the better internals in the end I'll have a MUCH better engine longevity wise, and if I truly need to "punch it" I can always slip a little bottle of go-go juice someplace.

 

So with new plugs, injectors, etc., looking at $6K plus install.

 

Thoughts....or should I just STFU and get a SC too?

 

I plan to stay NA as well. I cannot afford the $12k to get the SC from Shelby so I'll stick with the NA route. And as you said. You cannot use the power on the streets.

 

My plan was to go with your option one with long tubes. If you do the same, buy the manifold, cams, and TB kit from CJ Pony Parts and save yourself $300.

 

 

What would be the difference between the long tube and short tube headers? Just sound or is there a HP advantage with one?

[07SGT]

who knows exactly what hp and trq gains will be with either long tubes or shorties. Long tubes will usually not pass emissions so you may be restricted to shorties. Long tubes are usually 20+ hp gain. Shorties are usually 5+ hp gain. BUT, the JBA shorties are equal length and supposedly are 10+ hp gain. BBK, pypes, and others are not equal length for the shorty headers.

 

Any header will sound better on the SGT-K version.

[Kvin C]

So...given my desire is less about speed and more about the everyday characeteristics of the car I'm thinking I will keep it NA and add the following:

 

This:

 

http://www.fordracin.../m-fr5-s197.htm

 

Or This:

 

http://www.fordracin.../m-fr4-s197.htm

 

Headers:

 

http://www.fordracin...DS197C&CartID=4

 

KR Muffler with 85 MM CAI:

http://www.fordracingpartsdirect.com/FORD_RACING_MUSTANG_GT_POWER_UPGRADE_PACKAGE_p/m-fr1-mgt1.htm

 

I think with the better internals in the end I'll have a MUCH better engine longevity wise, and if I truly need to "punch it" I can always slip a little bottle of go-go juice someplace.

 

So with new plugs, injectors, etc., looking at $6K plus install.

 

Thoughts....or should I just STFU and get a SC too?

 

 

 

Jeff, as is so often the case, you and I seem to be on the same wavelength.

 

I was less concerned about horsepower bragging rights than re-creating the '65-'66 GT 350 aura, but still achieving useable, every day, old-skool ponies. I guess I am hopelessly stuck in that time frame, where power was made by weight reduction, gearing, cams and carbs (although I am just as glad to forego the last!).

 

If you check my sig info, you'll see I did many of the mods you are anticipating. Although I thought long and hard on the Ford Racing Intake, in the end I didn't want to lose the strut tower brace. (I know - and don't necessarily disagree with - all the strut brace "con" arguments, but to me, it's part of the SGT identity).

 

I'm also still on the fence with the KR mufflers. I'm one of those few oddballs who's never been disatisfied with the SGT "stock" mufflers and you might want to wait until you get those shorty headers installed. They will definitely give your regular exhaust system just a bit more growl. And the Hot Rod Cams will absolutely not disappoint from the attention-getting standpoint; you'll love them.

 

I went with the chrome/polised cam covers from Ford.......kinda blingy as you can see from the over-exposed photo, but just just enough understated too since they are buried so deep in the compartment

 

Best of luch with your project.

 

[JeffIsHereToo]

Nice! Thanks for the real world perspective!

[EL SHELBY]

You don't have to loose the strut brace if you add lower motor mounts. This is my plan. Long tubes 'should' not be an issue with emissions as long as the cats are plenty warm when the sniff test is done, unless you reside of the left coast.

[07SGT]

what do you think of your FRPP shorty headers? Sound? Performance?

[07SGT]

I am guessing you are right about 360 RWHP. How close is that estimate. And about 415-420+ crank HP. How close is that guestimate?

[ARMORINE]

425-440 should be about the max for a stock block 4.6 maxed out with goodies. you should be able to see 450-525 with a properly build na set up with 11:1 compression(you can go higher if your really willing to put money into shaving the heads and getting custom pistons made)

[07SGT]

or get the 475 HP Whipple with about 7-8 psi. A lot simpler than adding many modifications. But the hot rod cams do sound great.

[young768]

what do you think of your FRPP shorty headers? Sound? Performance?

 

 

I have the FRPP Hot Rod Cams with the FRPP Shorty Headers and I absolutely love the sound. I did not change the mufflers but it did sound deeper and idle's with just enough lope to get the attention. I had the car tuned and did gain some hp on the top end without losing any torque although the curve did change to favor the higher rpm range. My tuner is going to re-work the tune and see what else we can get out of it. I am still on the fence about staying N/A but I will probably go with a Paxton install next year for some more performance.

[Frank S]

[...]

So...now follow me on this...

 

I'm thinking what I really want is a little HP improvement to set the car apart from the others but more so I want that sound of the 60's. That low rumble of the engine. Personally the wine of a SC does NOTHING for me. I want to drive into a Saturday cruise night and have all eyes, and ears, turned to my car.

 

So...given my desire is less about speed and more about the everyday characeteristics of the car I'm thinking I will keep it NA and add the following:

[...]

 

 

 

Seems to me there is an alternative: get the Detroit Rockers cam and a mid-muffler setup with fiberglass torpedoes alongside the driveshaft. Those will probably burn out from time to time, but the audible essence of Muscle-car will be yours for relatively small bucks. The rest of the car is and will be sufficient to stand on its own. Your dream will be fulfilled.

[07SGT]

Jeff, how about conducting a poll to see if people would want to see a "registry package" for the hot rod cams, etc, installed by SAI. Hot rod cams, intake manifold, throttle body, all by FRPP and installed by SAI. And SAI already sells the JBA shorty headers through the catalogue. And possibly the one piece drive shaft. This is a package, a la carte, that many would desire and be able to afford. And SAI makes the profit from selling and installing the parts. How about a poll to see if SGT owners would recommend this package for the registry.

[07SGT]

Jeff, if you do conduct a poll, I think it is important that the package be all FRPP and no Rousch, Steeda, Saleen, etc, parts. FRPP ;hot rod cams, FRPP intake, FRPP Throttle Body (62 mm). SAI could decide any other parts if they already sell them in the catalogue such as JBA headers or FRPP headers. And the drive shaft that is already sold by SAI.. Any interest by anyone here in having such a package and being placed in the registry as a SAI modified vehicle, similar to the SC upgrade in the registry?

[JeffIsHereToo]

Jeff, how about conducting a poll to see if people would want to see a "registry package" for the hot rod cams, etc, installed by SAI. Hot rod cams, intake manifold, throttle body, all by FRPP and installed by SAI. And SAI already sells the JBA shorty headers through the catalogue. And possibly the one piece drive shaft. This is a package, a la carte, that many would desire and be able to afford. And SAI makes the profit from selling and installing the parts. How about a poll to see if SGT owners would recommend this package for the registry.

 

 

Well, it's important to remember that anything can be entered into the Registry as an owner installed update. I really haven't been keeping up on the Registry process but at one time the intent was that once it was available on-line that you could enter what ever updates you wanted. Not sure if there is an email option until then but I'm sure a Registrar will chime in. Then there are options that are installed by SAI/SA these are entered, again we'll need to wait for confirmation, automatically as Shelby installed updates. So from a "Shelby" aspect the intent was that if you had the work done at the Mod/Speed Shop then then as an Shelby installed update your "pedigree" is intact.

 

Now...you may be asking for a specific "package" and a specific designator such as GT/SC. I don't want to speak for SA but I don't know if there is any appetite for another package option to be honest. These packages seem to never make people happy and even reading all the posts here you can see the varied opinions as to what should or should not be a priority. This is why there is a "Speed Shop" so you can build the car you want. But I'm sure Shelby reads this and they'll put their business hats on and consider it.

 

So what would we call it? "Shelby GTA"?

[07SGT]

Jeff, that is the purpose of the poll. How many would support having a SAI/FRPP package of Hot rod cams, intake manifold, throttle body, etc. No we would not call it GTA as that was the designation for the old 67 Ford Fairlane with the 390 cid and automatic transmission. I suggest calling it the SGT-K as K was the engine code for the 289 Hi-Po in the original GT 350. Our SGTs are retro, lets go back in time and bring a name from the past to the present. Who out there would like to see a poll and to see a SA recognized package as described above?

[JeffIsHereToo]

Jeff, that is the purpose of the poll. How many would support having a SAI/FRPP package of Hot rod cams, intake manifold, throttle body, etc. No we would not call it GTA as that was the designation for the old 67 Ford Fairlane with the 390 cid and automatic transmission. I suggest calling it the SGT-K as K was the engine code for the 289 Hi-Po in the original GT 350. Our SGTs are retro, lets go back in time and bring a name from the past to the present. Who out there would like to see a poll and to see a SA recognized package as described above?

 

 

Go head and give it some thought, bullet the parts of the package, and I'll create a poll.

 

While the discussion will be interesting be prepared for vigorous debate on what should or should not be a part of the package.

 

I'm sure plenty of people will vote "yes" but if history is any guide there is a BIG, and I mean HUGE, difference between what people have said they would buy, if offered, and where they actually really step up to buy. But it may not be an issue since many of the parts would be off the shelf "Ford Racing" and not require costly contracts and the cost of tooling and inventory.

[harristotle]

I would say no for me, simply because I don't want the Ford Racing Intake Manifold.

[JeffIsHereToo]

I would say no for me, simply because I don't want the Ford Racing Intake Manifold.

 

 

Can you tell us why?

[harristotle]

Can you tell us why?

 

 

A combination of appearance and wanting to retain some of my lower end power. Plus someday I'd like to supercharge (roots not centrifugal) and want some of my mods to be transferable.

[tpow96]

Go head and give it some thought, bullet the parts of the package, and I'll create a poll.

 

While the discussion will be interesting be prepared for vigorous debate on what should or should not be a part of the package.

 

I'm sure plenty of people will vote "yes" but if history is any guide there is a BIG, and I mean HUGE, difference between what people have said they would buy, if offered, and where they actually really step up to buy. But it may not be an issue since many of the parts would be off the shelf "Ford Racing" and not require costly contracts and the cost of tooling and inventory.

 

 

+100 on this... just read the history of this forum going back a few years. We had all sort of proposals. Enough

to generate the SR packages by SA that never caught on. One reason is that most of the SGT owners who may

want this have already have modded it to their liking, so they don't want to strip stuff off just for the rocker stripe

designation. Just like many SC cars won't go to SA for their official SC stripe since they have already invested

in the hardware. A second reason is as many SC advocates have stated in this forum, bang for the buck the

SC is hard to beat. I'm an NA guy as well for racing reasons (more sanctioned classes to choose from), but if

I wasn't, an SC would be money better spent for raw power. Note that Shelby did offer an SC option (Paxton)

for the original 1966 GT-350. Third, SA is considered a manufacturer, so any package offered would have to

be 50 state legal. That is the enitre reason for the Mod Shop. Lastly, I'm not sure if SA has much interest in the

4.6L anymore for future product offerings.

 

-Tom

[07SGT]

I agree that many have upgraded their vehicles at other non-SA installation sites and that is their prerogative. But many of us want our vehicles to be in the SA registry and the only way is for SAI to do the install. Yes SAI is a manufacturer and has to meet emission requirements but the work can be done, after the sale, at the mod shop. And yes, all SGTs have been sold. This is an option for those that choose. No one is going to force someone to change the rocker stripe. It is an option for those that want the retro sound of the 60's.

 

Jeff, I would bullett the package as all parts that are FRPP and or already sold by SAI in their catalogue. The minimum would be FRPP hot rod cams, FRPP throttle body and FRPP or JBA shorty headers. Options would include the FRPP intake manifold, FRPP cnc cylinder heads, and drive shaft sold by SAI through the catalogue. The package could also have options of FRPP fuel pumps, injectors, spark plugs and a dyno tune at Shelby.

 

Again, our cars are a throw back to the first muscle cars, the GT 350. Most on this site are too young to remember the old tri-y headers on a 289 Hi-Po, 306 BHP GT 350. If you don't have an interest that is your business. But pleasee don't try to hurt those do have an interest. There has been great interest on this forum for the hot rod cams, frpp intake, throttle body, and headers. That has already been established. And SAI is in it for the money. All they have to do is certify the package, to be done after the sale at the mod shop, place in the registry, and reap the profit. And yes everyone knows that FI/SC is probably the best bang for the buck but not everyone wants a supercharger or can afford it. This, in stages, is more affordable and for those that are more interested in longevity and retro sound. Again, there has been great interest in the hot rod cams, intake, heads, and headers.

[harristotle]

I agree that many have upgraded their vehicles at other non-SA installation sites and that is their prerogative. But many of us want our vehicles to be in the SA registry and the only way is for SAI to do the install. Yes SAI is a manufacturer and has to meet emission requirements but the work can be done, after the sale, at the mod shop. And yes, all SGTs have been sold. This is an option for those that choose. No one is going to force someone to change the rocker stripe. It is an option for those that want the retro sound of the 60's.

 

Jeff, I would bullett the package as all parts that are FRPP and or already sold by SAI in their catalogue. The minimum would be FRPP hot rod cams, FRPP throttle body and FRPP or JBA shorty headers. Options would include the FRPP intake manifold, FRPP cnc cylinder heads, and drive shaft sold by SAI through the catalogue. The package could also have options of FRPP fuel pumps, injectors, spark plugs and a dyno tune at Shelby.

 

Again, our cars are a throw back to the first muscle cars, the GT 350. Most on this site are too young to remember the old tri-y headers on a 289 Hi-Po, 306 BHP GT 350. If you don't have an interest that is your business. But pleasee don't try to hurt those do have an interest. There has been great interest on this forum for the hot rod cams, frpp intake, throttle body, and headers. That has already been established. And SAI is in it for the money. All they have to do is certify the package, to be done after the sale at the mod shop, place in the registry, and reap the profit. And yes everyone knows that FI/SC is probably the best bang for the buck but not everyone wants a supercharger or can afford it. This, in stages, is more affordable and for those that are more interested in longevity and retro sound. Again, there has been great interest in the hot rod cams, intake, heads, and headers.

 

 

I would definitely be interested in the package minus the manifold that you mention.

 

And I had no intention of hurting anybodies chances at this package, this thread came across as looking for an opinion, so I voiced mine.

 

BTW, just because I'm young doesn't mean I don't know what all went into the original GT350 package