FRPP Intake Manifold

[07SGT]

http://www.fordracingpartsdirect.com/Ford_Racing_2005_2010_Mustang_GT_Top_End_Package_p/m-fr4-s197.htm

[SGT0225]

Anyone know anything about this set up?? Any idea how much HP and TQ it will add to the SGT?

I would love to have naturally asp at the 400 to 410 hp range, but doubt that it will get there with this.

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks,

Andy.

 

Sorry - I somehow mixed the quotes....

 

Many folks have found when you compare apples to apples that buying a supercharger is similarly priced to a n/a 400+ hp car.

 

Just one or 2 performance upgrades changes how the car acts without a supercharger.

 

a quote "CNC Ported heads and has been tested on the engine dyno to produce over 440HP with the intake manifold, cams, throttle body, and Ford Racing 85mm cold air intake." price $4K for the kit m-fr4-s197

[SGT0225]

http://www.fordracingpartsdirect.com/Ford_Racing_2005_2010_Mustang_GT_Top_End_Package_p/m-fr4-s197.htm

 

I don't want to buy new heads.

 

I was thinking some show and some go.

 

intake 600

throttle body 600

valve covers 300

 

probrably will require a tune 350

 

[07SGT]

I don't want to buy new heads.

 

I was thinking some show and some go.

 

intake 600

throttle body 600

valve covers 300

 

probrably will require a tune 350

 

 

 

 

The link listed above also has an accompanying link with a dyno run but it includes heads, cam and intake. You can view the results from the link. But you might as well add the cams as long as the valve covers are off . The cams, intake, throttle body should be good for about 400 HP (flywheel) assuming you also have headers.

[shelbydream1]

Just bought a new set of the FRPP CNC heads for $1,250 ! ! !

 

Now I am totally screwed and looking at the FRPP Forged short block ! ughhhhhhhhh

 

Andrew

 

 

 

Where did you find that price on the heads??

[SGT0225]

The link listed above also has an accompanying link with a dyno run but it includes heads, cam and intake. You can view the results from the link. But you might as well add the cams as long as the valve covers are off . The cams, intake, throttle body should be good for about 400 HP (flywheel) assuming you also have headers.

I am on the fense about which way to go, N/A or supercharger.

 

I think N/A could be less money, and 100 less hp.

I like the idea of upgrading my cams, throttle body, some headers, and the intake.

 

A supercharger adds more maintnance, right?

 

What is the limit on a supercharged car? How cold can it be outside and still turn the car on?

Never had a supercharger before.

[07SGT]

I am on the fense about which way to go, N/A or supercharger.

 

I think N/A could be less money, and 100 less hp.

I like the idea of upgrading my cams, throttle body, some headers, and the intake.

 

A supercharger adds more maintnance, right?

 

What is the limit on a supercharged car? How cold can it be outside and still turn the car on?

Never had a supercharger before.

 

 

 

The sc will work at any temperature but remember the sc puts more strain on the internals so you want to ensure the vehicle is properly warmed up before putting your foot in it. There is more bang for the buck with the sc as compared with the NA. A supercharger really does not add to maintenance as you should be changing your oil/filter at about 1-2 K anyway. You can buy the whipple with only 400 hp for less because you are not buying the intercooler. The intercooler could be added later.

 

I don't know if you would need to upgrade the fuel pump and injectors if you add the heads, intake, throttle body. You may need more fuel than the stock setup. And possibly plugs. And definitely a dyno tune.Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go. If you remain NA there is less strain on the engine. If you sc you will have more HP and TQ but add strain to the engine. Good Luck.

[SGT0225]

The sc will work at any temperature but remember the sc puts more strain on the internals so you want to ensure the vehicle is properly warmed up before putting your foot in it. There is more bang for the buck with the sc as compared with the NA. A supercharger really does not add to maintenance as you should be changing your oil/filter at about 1-2 K anyway. You can buy the whipple with only 400 hp for less because you are not buying the intercooler. The intercooler could be added later.

 

I don't know if you would need to upgrade the fuel pump and injectors if you add the heads, intake, throttle body. You may need more fuel than the stock setup. And possibly plugs. And definitely a dyno tune.Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go. If you remain NA there is less strain on the engine. If you sc you will have more HP and TQ but add strain to the engine. Good Luck.

 

I dont want to race it around in the winter months, i just hear about everyone winterizing their GT500's and it made me think.

 

I have to move my car around in the winter months to get stuff out of the garage ( crammed space )

 

I use synthetic blend motorcraft, i change the oil every 6 months ( about 500 miles lately )

 

I will check out the 400 hp whipple set-up. I like the whipple for the completeness of the kits.

[TheKurgan]

The 400hp whipple is non intercooled right ? I think I'd rather opt for the 450 intercooled version. You can always lower your upper rpm limit. Cooler is better.

[SGT0225]

The 400hp whipple is non intercooled right ? I think I'd rather opt for the 450 intercooled version. You can always lower your upper rpm limit. Cooler is better.

 

The 400 hp version has no intercooler, and costs about 5,400

 

The 550 hp version has a intercooler, and costs 7,000

 

Staying N/A would cost about 2,500 and less than 375 hp.

[RACERX009]

The 400 hp version has no intercooler, and costs about 5,400

 

The 550 hp version has a intercooler, and costs 7,000

 

Staying N/A would cost about 2,500 and less than 375 hp.

 

 

Then for 750.00 a nice big shot of cheap love of 250hp of laughing gas and still have money left over for a lady and a night of gambling

[AndyGJ]

The 400 hp version has no intercooler, and costs about 5,400

 

The 550 hp version has a intercooler, and costs 7,000

 

Staying N/A would cost about 2,500 and less than 375 hp.

 

 

 

I thought that kit of Intake, Heads, etc was boasting 440 hp? You were saying 375 hp for N/A.

I'd love to have 440 hp on a N/A motor.....where did I miss something or are they claiming something out of this kit that is not true?

 

http://www.fordracingpartsdirect.com/Ford_Racing_2005_2010_Mustang_GT_Top_End_Package_p/m-fr4-s197.htm

 

 

I have been leaning the 550 Whipple, but like the middle road of a N/A at 440 and I don't have to ship out to SAI to get it done.

SAI is the only place I'd go for the S/C install, and that is a pricy shipping bill, too. I like the lower level of internal strain from N/A...mine is a driven keeper. I had the last one for 22 years, so this one's not going anywhere except down the road with me in it about once a week!

 

Any help on that 440 HP number & how to get it?

 

Thanks,

Andy.

[young768]

1321798030[/url]' post='1224266']

I thought that kit of Intake, Heads, etc was boasting 440 hp? You were saying 375 hp for N/A.

I'd love to have 440 hp on a N/A motor.....where did I miss something or are they claiming something out of this kit that is not true?

 

http://www.fordracin.../m-fr4-s197.htm

 

 

I have been leaning the 550 Whipple, but like the middle road of a N/A at 440 and I don't have to ship out to SAI to get it done.

SAI is the only place I'd go for the S/C install, and that is a pricy shipping bill, too. I like the lower level of internal strain from N/A...mine is a driven keeper. I had the last one for 22 years, so this one's not going anywhere except down the road with me in it about once a week!

 

Any help on that 440 HP number & how to get it?

 

Thanks,

Andy.

 

 

I believe this is the power pack that produces the numbs you are referring to.

http://www.fordracingpartsdirect.com/Ford_Racing_2005_2010_Mustang_GT_Top_End_Package_p/m-fr4-s197.htm

 

 

[AndyGJ]

Correct, but are those legitimate numbers?

 

Andy.

[young768]

1321805667[/url]' post='1224287']

Correct, but are those legitimate numbers?

 

Andy.

 

 

As tested by Ford at the flywheel.

[AndyGJ]

Here is my thoughts:

 

If I send out to SAI for the S/C upgrade, then the package price for the Supercharger 550 Whipple kit, gauge package, 4 wheel rotor & pads for the brakes (no caliper upgrades included) would be about $11,900. Also add in transportation as well.

 

If I have a local shop do the CNC heads, Intake, etc, then cost is $4,000 plus probably $1,000 labor. So there I'm looking at 440 HP for $5,000.

 

So in looking at the economics:

 

Now at 325 HP

440 HP would be 115 increase for $5,000 and no Transportation cost

550 HP would be 225 increase for $12,000 and large transportation cost to SAI.

 

That is why I'm considering this upgrade....I may just start a separate post to get a good read on this from everyone. I keep wondering if there is something that I'm missing here...

I'd love to have my SGT hitting the 440 HP range, but I want it to also be usable HP and TQ that I'd feel and enjoy. Curious how much I'd notice the difference in powere for this setup.

 

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

thanks,

Andy.

[jmn444]

I don't understand why you think SA has to install the blower but anybody can do the heads? It's really easier to bolt on a whipple if anything. You could do it yourself as MANY have.

 

You are creating a cost difference that's exagerated by requiring SA to be involved.

 

That said, you are also not looking at the flip side if you keep the car long term that the gr/sc will give you more money back than the n/a motor will. But I don't build my toys for 30 years from now, so maybe you don't either....

[AndyGJ]

I don't understand why you think SA has to install the blower but anybody can do the heads? It's really easier to bolt on a whipple if anything. You could do it yourself as MANY have.

 

You are creating a cost difference that's exagerated by requiring SA to be involved.

 

That said, you are also not looking at the flip side if you keep the car long term that the gr/sc will give you more money back than the n/a motor will. But I don't build my toys for 30 years from now, so maybe you don't either....

 

 

 

The reason to use SAI would be for the registry...there is no Official Mod shop close to Atlanta. I would either go to Tasca or SAI, so given the distance to both is not to far apart from Atlanta, I might as well go back to SAI. I looked at their package price for the S/C mod, and that shows the $11,900 number. I don't know that I trust myself to do the Whipple upgrade, but I am OK with a wrench from time to time as I did most all the work on my 1966 Mustang Conv (289 2V), but that motor is super simple compared to today's technology.

 

I think I would enjoy the power of the 550, but if I did the 440 package now, I don't think I would be wasting too much (other than the FRPP Intake) if I upgraded later to the 550 Whipple. I assume that the head and Hot Rod cams are all compatable with the Whipple S/C, but that is another question that I was going to ask the TS members who know much more than me for guidance.

 

How would the 440 hp package do with the Whipple added down the road? and would I even feel the difference in what the 440 offers now if I just added that for the next couple of years?

 

thanks,

Andy.

[jmn444]

That's just it, you would be wasting all of that if you want a whipple eventually, the whipple by itself pushes the block to the limits. You would need to build the bottom end too to take advantage of everything.

 

I would suggest reading the whipple manual before deciding, it's really well thought out and to me the toughest part was changing the fuel pump in the tank. Seriously pretty simple step by step directions. I may still have a PDF in my emails if you pm me your address I'll send it.

[young768]

Andy,

 

Go talk to Ryan at Injected Engineering in Kennesaw, he can give you some good solid advice on upgrading your engine, NA vs SC and the costs involved. He specializes in Mustangs and they have had a number of cars they have built featured in the car mags. The first time I visited him, he had just finished a Paxton install on a 2008 Shelby GT and it dynoed at 430 RWHP. I am about as anal as you can get when having someone else touch my car and I completely trust Ryan.

 

I have had him do some of the work on my car and I am very pleased with his work. He recently installed the Hot Rod cams on my car and did the tune, I could not be happier.. After the first of the year I am having him install a Paxton on my car. I originally was going to go the NA route but after figuring the costs along with the install, the Paxton was the more cost effective route.

 

Robert

[AndyGJ]

Andy,

 

Go talk to Ryan at Injected Engineering in Kennesaw, he can give you some good solid advice on upgrading your engine, NA vs SC and the costs involved. He specializes in Mustangs and they have had a number of cars they have built featured in the car mags. The first time I visited him, he had just finished a Paxton install on a 2008 Shelby GT and it dynoed at 430 RWHP. I am about as anal as you can get when having someone else touch my car and I completely trust Ryan.

 

I have had him do some of the work on my car and I am very pleased with his work. He recently installed the Hot Rod cams on my car and did the tune, I could not be happier.. After the first of the year I am having him install a Paxton on my car. I originally was going to go the NA route but after figuring the costs along with the install, the Paxton was the more cost effective route.

 

Robert

 

 

Sweet!!! I may have to call him today....just what I needed. I still need to call you, too. May do that today also.

 

THANKS!!

Andy.

[AndyGJ]

That's just it, you would be wasting all of that if you want a whipple eventually, the whipple by itself pushes the block to the limits. You would need to build the bottom end too to take advantage of everything.

 

I would suggest reading the whipple manual before deciding, it's really well thought out and to me the toughest part was changing the fuel pump in the tank. Seriously pretty simple step by step directions. I may still have a PDF in my emails if you pm me your address I'll send it.

 

 

I tried to PM but your box must be full. Email is Andy@AndyJabaley.com.

 

Any thoughts on SAI install for Registry purposes VS self install or local shop install??

 

Thanks,

Andy

[07SGT]

Correct, but are those legitimate numbers?

 

Andy.

 

 

 

Their numbers appeared to be skewed as they start with a baseline of almost 360 HP for a stock 4.6. That is not accurate. And they are turning the engine over 7,000 rpm and that is not good with a stock 4.6.

[AndyGJ]

Their numbers appeared to be skewed as they start with a baseline of almost 360 HP for a stock 4.6. That is not accurate. And they are turning the engine over 7,000 rpm and that is not good with a stock 4.6.

 

 

THAT is why I was slightly suspect about their numbers and asked if these were ligit.

I wonder if they are getting higher numbers from stock based on no exhaust headers that eliminates any back pressure for the engine as a restrictor.

 

I may just have to stick with the S/C idea....still may throw in some Hot Rod cams and KR mufflers.

I want more power, but managable power that wont be over the top - out of control that could get me in trouble/danger without intending to.

 

I'm guessing pushing the stock bottom end and internals up to 7000 rpms would be dangerous. I'm no engineer, but CNC heads would not allow the higher RPMs safely - correct?

 

Thanks,

Andy.

[07SGT]

THAT is why I was slightly suspect about their numbers and asked if these were ligit.

I wonder if they are getting higher numbers from stock based on no exhaust headers that eliminates any back pressure for the engine as a restrictor.

 

I may just have to stick with the S/C idea....still may throw in some Hot Rod cams and KR mufflers.

I want more power, but managable power that wont be over the top - out of control that could get me in trouble/danger without intending to.

 

I'm guessing pushing the stock bottom end and internals up to 7000 rpms would be dangerous. I'm no engineer, but CNC heads would not allow the higher RPMs safely - correct?

 

Thanks,

Andy.

 

 

The sc is the best bang for the buck. However, most understand why you want to have SAI do the install so as to be entered in the registry. Yes, I concur that pushing the stock bottom end to 7,000+ is dangerous. There is a rev limiter for the 4.6 and I believe it is about 6,500. There is a reason why they limit the stock engine to 6,500. The nice thing about the hot rod cams is the retro sound. The lopey idle. CNC's will not necessarily facilitate higher rpm's unless they are equipped with racing valve springs and even racing valves. Cams, heads, headers, intake, throttle body should be good for 400+ flywheel HP and be very safe. IMO

[07SGT]

The sc is the best bang for the buck. However, most understand why you want to have SAI do the install so as to be entered in the registry. Yes, I concur that pushing the stock bottom end to 7,000+ is dangerous. There is a rev limiter for the 4.6 and I believe it is about 6,500. There is a reason why they limit the stock engine to 6,500. The nice thing about the hot rod cams is the retro sound. The lopey idle. CNC's will not necessarily facilitate higher rpm's unless they are equipped with racing valve springs and even racing valves. Cams, heads, headers, intake, throttle body should be good for 400+ flywheel HP and be very safe. IMO

 

 

 

Or you could go with the base 400 HP whipple, w/o inercooler, and only about 5 psi. That should be very safe. and add the intercooler, change pulleys to about 7-8 psi, and have about 475 flywheel HP and still be reasonably safe. No real difference in the whipple if you are just having the pulley changed. And possibly run a 91 octane tune so as to be safer.

[young768]

THAT is why I was slightly suspect about their numbers and asked if these were ligit.

I wonder if they are getting higher numbers from stock based on no exhaust headers that eliminates any back pressure for the engine as a restrictor.

 

I may just have to stick with the S/C idea....still may throw in some Hot Rod cams and KR mufflers.

I want more power, but managable power that wont be over the top - out of control that could get me in trouble/danger without intending to.

 

I'm guessing pushing the stock bottom end and internals up to 7000 rpms would be dangerous. I'm no engineer, but CNC heads would not allow the higher RPMs safely - correct?

 

Thanks,

Andy.

 

 

You guys are over analyzing. The numbers were produced both by Ford Racing on their dyno and also produced by MM&FF on there dyno. You might as well be just as suspect of the numbers that are claimed for our cars as delivered if you can't believe what was tested. I think they must have had a typo or someone confused Test 1 with another as 360 with no mods is not realistic. However, MM&FF and Ford both followed a consistent methodology and produced similar results.

 

Andy, you will love the Hot Rod cams. They are not as aggressive as other cams, but they make a great sound, will rock the car at a stop light and really wake the engine up. They are also nicely compatible with an SC and will let the SC do its job. Just remember that the 4.6 is considered good to 550hp but that is getting dicey. You will need to build the bottom end or swap in an aluminator short block to handle any more than that.

[tpow96]

You guys are over analyzing. The numbers were produced both by Ford Racing on their dyno and also produced by MM&FF on there dyno. You might as well be just as suspect of the numbers that are claimed for our cars as delivered if you can't believe what was tested. I think they must have had a typo or someone confused Test 1 with another as 360 with no mods is not realistic. However, MM&FF and Ford both followed a consistent methodology and produced similar results.

 

Andy, you will love the Hot Rod cams. They are not as aggressive as other cams, but they make a great sound, will rock the car at a stop light and really wake the engine up. They are also nicely compatible with an SC and will let the SC do its job. Just remember that the 4.6 is considered good to 550hp but that is getting dicey. You will need to build the bottom end or swap in an aluminator short block to handle any more than that.

 

 

Agree... too much over thinking here. Take the #s for what they are (and no mods for Test 1 may be an understatement: FR CAI, tune, balanced engine, full headers, no cats, no

accessories, it all starts to add up at the flywheel). Couple that with Ford understating flywheel horsepower to avoid issues from their past when rating their production engines.

Besides, its not where you start but where you end up that counts.

 

For those of us who have to stay NA for certain racing classes, this is great data.

 

-Tom

[AndyGJ]

Agree... too much over thinking here. Take the #s for what they are (and no mods for Test 1 may be an understatement: FR CAI, tune, balanced engine, full headers, no cats, no

accessories, it all starts to add up at the flywheel). Couple that with Ford understating flywheel horsepower to avoid issues from their past when rating their production engines.

Besides, its not where you start but where you end up that counts.

 

For those of us who have to stay NA for certain racing classes, this is great data.

 

-Tom

 

 

 

Sorry Robert & Tom...I'm very analytical and trying to decide how to go with the major amount of $$ it's going to take either way to get the HP/TQ up on my SGT to where I want it.

Again, I don't have a lot of spare change right now to mis-fire on the right decision, so I'd hate to go N/A and find that I'm still longing for more power. I don't want to load it up too much to where it's too much of a beast to keep it planted on the streets too.

 

I guess I'm trying to find that balance somewhere in the middle that I'll enjoy for many, many years. Remember, my last one was in my possession for 22 years before I sold it to get this one. Even if I one day get something like a Boss 302 for more routine driving, this is my all-time favorite vehicle that I'll never give up (good Lord willing).

 

I think Robert had the best suggestion, and I've already taken that first step to call Injected Engineering and "get some professional help" for this ailment!! They were closed today (Monday) so I left a message to call me tomorrow...maybe they can bring some clarity and sound advise for me to steer me to a decision that I'd be happy with. One idea is to go with the 550 Whipple and pulley down to around the 475 HP level...I'd have the intercooler to help in the Atlanta temps, and could easily do a pulley swap if I ever wanted more juice.

 

Again, I'll consult with the pros and update you with their suggestions incase someone else is pondering my same issues.

I still need to get the wheels/rims figured out to do the brake upgrade too, so Robert if work ever lets up, I'll meet up with you to check out your rims. Another TS member in Michigan has some for sale that I'm still keeping my eye on...hoping they won't sell until I get to check out yours....

 

Thanks for all the advise...and keep any other suggestions coming. I'm still learning the ins and outs of these mods!!!

 

thanks,

Andy.

[SGT0225]

Sorry Robert & Tom...I'm very analytical and trying to decide how to go with the major amount of $$ it's going to take either way to get the HP/TQ up on my SGT to where I want it.

Again, I don't have a lot of spare change right now to mis-fire on the right decision, so I'd hate to go N/A and find that I'm still longing for more power. I don't want to load it up too much to where it's too much of a beast to keep it planted on the streets too.

 

I guess I'm trying to find that balance somewhere in the middle that I'll enjoy for many, many years. Remember, my last one was in my possession for 22 years before I sold it to get this one. Even if I one day get something like a Boss 302 for more routine driving, this is my all-time favorite vehicle that I'll never give up (good Lord willing).

 

I think Robert had the best suggestion, and I've already taken that first step to call Injected Engineering and "get some professional help" for this ailment!! They were closed today (Monday) so I left a message to call me tomorrow...maybe they can bring some clarity and sound advise for me to steer me to a decision that I'd be happy with. One idea is to go with the 550 Whipple and pulley down to around the 475 HP level...I'd have the intercooler to help in the Atlanta temps, and could easily do a pulley swap if I ever wanted more juice.

 

Again, I'll consult with the pros and update you with their suggestions incase someone else is pondering my same issues.

I still need to get the wheels/rims figured out to do the brake upgrade too, so Robert if work ever lets up, I'll meet up with you to check out your rims. Another TS member in Michigan has some for sale that I'm still keeping my eye on...hoping they won't sell until I get to check out yours....

 

Thanks for all the advise...and keep any other suggestions coming. I'm still learning the ins and outs of these mods!!!

 

thanks,

Andy.

 

The problem i saw with the ford power pack is all the increased hp is in the high rpm range.

 

I want lots of power at 3,000 rpm not 7,000 rpm