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2012 GT500 vs 2012 Boss 302


Cdvision
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What do you guys think will be the outcome of the match up?

Straight line(0-60, 1/4 mile, top speed) and handling.

My guess is that better balance and lighter weight might give the Boss the edge in handling and 0-60. I figure that with it's higher power level the GT500 will still pull on the Boss 302 as the speed increases. It will be an interesting race.

Either way the 2012 Z28 (if it ever comes out) will be in trouble. :dance:

Edited by Cdvision
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What do you guys think will be the outcome of the match up?

Straight line(0-60, 1/4 mile, top speed) and handling.

My guess is that better balance and lighter weight might give the Boss the edge in handling and 0-60. I figure that with it's higher power level the GT500 will still pull on the Boss 302 as the speed increases. It will be an interesting race.

Either way the 2012 Z28 (if it ever comes out) will be in trouble. :dance:

 

 

 

It depends on whether or not the 2012 GT500 allows high RPM 1-2 upshifts........ :banghead:

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While it will be close, the GT500 will win all that is "Muscle" and the BOSS will be more about finese. There is no way Ford will produce something that will be better than its flagship, year vs. year. With that, Ford probably has some surprises for the '12 GT500 now the Boss has been unbridled, IMHO. More to come...

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Boss is the most balanced car a performance package Gt500 is a great car but weight is something you have to deal with. I see the Boss as the evolution of what Ford will try going forward a balanced well rounded car. I think the global platform and bodystyle change coming will prove that out if they build a good foundation to work from they can do some really cool stuff and still meet CAFE. Either way though its nice to see ford doing well, the Boss and the Gt500 both have a place to fit into right now. The next step for ford is to go after the ZR1 and bring the cobra roadster back to make all the GM fanboys cry about how unfair it is.

Edited by kb67
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I think it's a great time for all those who love muscle cars. Dodge, GM and Ford are all making exciting cars. I'm not going to argue about the performance of various cars (from all auto makers), they all have strong points and weak points and personal opinion tends to show a bias towards one car or another.

The bottomline is that all these cars continue to push the envelope of performance and I don't think ANY of us saw something like this coming 10 years ago. Who would ever think we would see cars like this today AND at a pretty decent price?

I was bit too young the first time around for the muscle car wars and I'm really happy to be able to join in now!

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It's important to remember that GT500 continues to be a 5.4 L driven vehicle, while BOSS 302 is the first "performance" variant of the 5.0 L Coyote - and it's most certainly not likely to be the last. By virtue of both fuel economy and sheer economics, GT500 (or whatever nameplate the vehicle that will occupy the product slot today's GT500 holds is called tomorrow) will simply (and wonderfully) be a supercharged Coyote V8 derivative. Nothing else makes sense - nor would it be consistent with the philosophy Ford is hammering into every aspect of its business from the top down.

 

As far as 2012 goes, BOSS 302 simply won't keep up overall to the present GT500. Weight or no, GT500 has more than 100hp and almost as much additional torque. Where BOSS 302 has a chance to excel is through its agility and the difference in HOW it applies its torque throughout the rev range - and its suspension is likely to be tuned to match and to make it more nimble. The reason why the question hasn't yet been fully resolved in terms of each vehicle having a clearly-defined segment, feature set, and purpose in terms of the market place is largely because of the same factors that have created some pretty screwy inconsistencies throughout the rest of the lineup - the unprecedented acceleration of bringing new product to market to spur demand during the economic downturn - and then reconciling what exists within the normal cadence at which products are introduced, revised, and so forth. it's easy to forget that only 18 months ago, the auto industry was a VERY different place - and it has never changed so drastically in any previous decade, let alone from one model year to the next.

 

Ford must also contend with many other moving parts like arbitrary fuel economy mandates - and product mix decision which now may be as dependent upon how well OTHER vehicles sell rather than simply the ability to sell as many Mustangs as people are willing to buy at a given price point. In fact, we've even seen the first time production costs have truly been de-coupled from retail pricing in the Lincoln MKZ and the Hybrid version being priced the same as the gasoline version. Rest assured, in the future, horsepower and displacement will be luxuries, and people will be made to pay for the privilege in ways they've never experienced before. This will have HUGE ramifications for Mustang. In the meantime, there will be 2-3 years before some discrepancies and out-of-sequence products and features are rectified (ever wonder why BLIS is a core feature of Taurus but is unavailable on MKS which costs $7,000 more, or why Flex is now the most expensive, yet least well-equipped SUV/CUV Ford sells?)

 

Beyond 2012, I'd say all bets are off as far as what Ford may have in-store for GT500, and it's as likely as not to migrate to a supercharged 5.0 L - just as it may come back as Cobra if Ford decides Mustang has enough brand value to drive sales on its own based upon what SVT can develop and deliver in-house. Just as Eddie Bauer edition vehicles have seen their day, Ford is starting to realize the intrinsic value of its own brand equity, and part of that means not necessarily needing to share name licensing royalties.

 

As far as the 2012 BOSS 302 goes, however, I can't imagine it coming close to the present GT500 in the "brute force" category. Sure, the stripped-down and LS track versions are likely to be better-suited to certain types of competition driving, and the Coyote 5.0 L V8 is a terrific powerplant, but without a supercharger, it just lacks the same oomph today's GT500 delivers. I'm not saying BOSS 302 won't be an even-better value proposition in the same way the GT is far better value for money than GT500 - but when it comes to rip roaring grunt, I don't think BOSS 302 will compare. I think GT500 will be the sledgehammer, and BOSS 302 more of a scalpel.

Edited by Madlock
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2011 GT500 to 2012 Boss, stock to stock down to the tires in a magazine test = GT500 is going to get embarassed. Sad but true. The GT500 will never do good in those tests because horrible traction and zero effort by Ford to fix it. Add a damn launch control.

 

If a stock GT500 driver isn't on his game and races a 2011 5.0 with an auto trans to say 90 MPH, he's screwed. Totally lopsided, but totally the fault of traction and 2nd gear grinds.

Edited by ChrisSD
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2011 GT500 to 2012 Boss, stock to stock down to the tires in a magazine test = GT500 is going to get embarassed. Sad but true. The GT500 will never do good in those tests because horrible traction and zero effort by Ford to fix it. Add a damn launch control.

 

If a stock GT500 driver isn't on his game and races a 2011 5.0 with an auto trans to say 90 MPH, he's screwed. Totally lopsided, but totally the fault of traction and 2nd gear grinds.

 

 

Unless Ford is truly planning to do away with GT500 in 2012, for as long as there's going to be BOSS 302, Ford won't be able to get by without at least making GT500 a superset of the feature offerings available in BOSS 302 (like the track key). The feature discrepancy and inconsistencies throughout Ford's lineup has been a big problem with as many products as they've pulled forward so quickly - but it's something they're intent upon rectifying. i.e. it would be HIGHLY unlikely for BOSS 302 to have any specific feature GT500 won't also have going forward - unless it's specifically limited to track use.

 

I'm not quite sure I agree about the GT500 vs. 5.0 comparison, however - especially with the SVTPP. Not only is the axle ratio in favor of the GT500, but the SVTPP has dramatically improved traction. About the only thing favoring the 5.0 (at least in factory GT form) is how well it applies power through the higher revs in lower gears making it quicker - but the automatic's fuel-minded gearing and low axle ratio work against the inherent quickness that would otherwise be more available in a GT 5.0 with a manual and a 3.55 or 3.73 rear axle.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure BOSS 302 will leave a lot of 2011 GT500 owners disappointed - particularly with respect to the LS version to those whose primary purpose for owning a GT500 is dedicated track use. BOSS 302 is more "track" from the ground up - including offering features like a rear seat delete for weight. GT500 is Ford's attempt to make the most powerful street Mustang as trackable as it can without sacrificing its road driving. And for as long as Ford is a mass-market maker with fuel economy being so important, there's not likely to be any kind of race-ready automatic in the cards. Nor would there be a launch control which would be subject to blowing clutches and placing other undue stresses for as long as it's a warrantied street vehicle.

 

I wouldn't be surprised, however, for whatever the future top tier Mustang happens to be called to include a double-clutch transmission - and THEN launch control - but not without a HUGE price tag. My guess is that it won't be seen before the future GT500 is a supercharged 5.0 L derivative.

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The 5.0 Coyote has demonstrated over 600HP to the wheels on a mild 7.5lbs of boost. The tuners are pushing these new motors to over 800hp and running in the 9s with the stock bottom end. Simply amazing. The 5.4L with an inefficient, heat pump S/C is a joke for 21 grand at this point. The Coyote has better flowing heads, improved valve train geometry, and less internal resistance. The 5.4s days are numbered. The new 5.0 with a twin screw is the likely setup for the big power Mustangs going forward.

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I think it's a great time for all those who love muscle cars. Dodge, GM and Ford are all making exciting cars. I'm not going to argue about the performance of various cars (from all auto makers), they all have strong points and weak points and personal opinion tends to show a bias towards one car or another.

The bottomline is that all these cars continue to push the envelope of performance and I don't think ANY of us saw something like this coming 10 years ago. Who would ever think we would see cars like this today AND at a pretty decent price?

I was bit too young the first time around for the muscle car wars and I'm really happy to be able to join in now!

 

 

Well said Whammer.

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I think it's a great time for all those who love muscle cars. Dodge, GM and Ford are all making exciting cars. I'm not going to argue about the performance of various cars (from all auto makers), they all have strong points and weak points and personal opinion tends to show a bias towards one car or another.

The bottomline is that all these cars continue to push the envelope of performance and I don't think ANY of us saw something like this coming 10 years ago. Who would ever think we would see cars like this today AND at a pretty decent price?

I was bit too young the first time around for the muscle car wars and I'm really happy to be able to join in now!

 

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

I was born in 1973 so I missed the 1st muscle car wars as well and I am very glad to be part of this generation. My 4 year old daughter will remember these days as the good ole days of performance.

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Well, THESE really are the days of performance war, but its all Blue Oval right now. I cant wait to see another manufacturer step up to the plate.

 

In the 60s and early 70s it was the big three, but if you really look at what the 5.0 and design of the 2011 Mustang GT, Ford has been left no choice but to throw the gauntlet at European manfacturers, hence the M3 comparisons, because GM and Dodge just cant seem to jump into the fray fast enough. When and if THEY join the muscle party, I forsee a shift in Ford to take on the challenges back here in the US, and then it will get REALLY interesting. At that point, (and Im seeing it as a 2012 showdown), what we will have is the biggest and best ever offered from a manufacturer, and I cant wait to see it! Then, if history truly does repeat itself, they will all drop the cause just as the muscle wars get good.:hysterical: If not, we are in for some amazing and fun times my friends.

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The 5.0 Coyote has demonstrated over 600HP to the wheels on a mild 7.5lbs of boost. The tuners are pushing these new motors to over 800hp and running in the 9s with the stock bottom end. Simply amazing. The 5.4L with an inefficient, heat pump S/C is a joke for 21 grand at this point. The Coyote has better flowing heads, improved valve train geometry, and less internal resistance. The 5.4s days are numbered. The new 5.0 with a twin screw is the likely setup for the big power Mustangs going forward.

 

 

 

Amen, and absolutely. The 5.0 is running conservatively, at its baseline, with factory performance being neutered into favorable CAFE compliance. Those who want more from it will either have to pay the premium for a factory model or do it themselves in the aftermarket - something that's near ideal both from the customer's perspective AND Ford's.

 

What a fundamental difference in the entire concept of an automobile occurs when it's approached from a position of engineering and design strength. We're all going to be dancing in our driveways come 2014, when the S197 successor and 50th Anniversary combine to deliver a platform that will also underpin a bona fide Lincoln "driver's car", without compromise.

 

I've never been so proud of a car maker. In the meantime, I'll bide my time with my 2011 GT500 - knowing I probably SHOULD have gone with the GT instead, but enjoying what I've got for as long as I have it.

 

 

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What do you guys think will be the outcome of the match up?

Straight line(0-60, 1/4 mile, top speed) and handling.

My guess is that better balance and lighter weight might give the Boss the edge in handling and 0-60. I figure that with it's higher power level the GT500 will still pull on the Boss 302 as the speed increases. It will be an interesting race.

Either way the 2012 Z28 (if it ever comes out) will be in trouble. :dance:

 

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As good as the 302 will be, and as road-course ready as it may be set-up - it's just not likely to trump the 500 until any point before Ford is prepared to make a definitive change in GT500 product trajectory. It just doesn't make sense.

 

The 5.0 L is inherently quick to 60, and will be moreso in BOSS trim. While GT500's supercharged 5.4 isn't necessarily as soup-to-nuts quicker or faster as it SHOULD be, unless the BOSS will be using a better transmission or far more capable suspension than GT500's, it simply wouldn't make sense for Ford to position BOSS 302 BETWEEN GT and GT500 without summarily devaluing GT500 in the process.

 

Yes, BOSS 302 may be suited specifically for road track driving - and the LS in particular, with the addition of weight lightening options. But given that GT500 doesn't come with any feature option improvements to speak of compared to a baseline GT, there'd be a REAL product inconsistency that I just don't think Ford would invite without already having an answer in terms of giving anybody a reason to buy GT500. I don't think there's much doubt that BOSS 302 will be "harsher", and likely to make the least best daily driver of the bunch. I suspect BOSS 302 may eventually become the wundercar so many people think, but I just don't see how Ford's product rationale reconciles otherwise.

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Well, I suppose the BOSS 302 isn't all that bad news for GT500 Convertible owners - as GT500 remains the undisputed king of the drop tops by any measure. As much as I enjoy my coupe, I really wish I had taken the opportunity to swap with the dealer who had an identical convertible before signing on the dotted line. :(

 

C'est la vie, I s'pose.

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Well, I suppose the BOSS 302 isn't all that bad news for GT500 Convertible owners - as GT500 remains the undisputed king of the drop tops by any measure. As much as I enjoy my coupe, I really wish I had taken the opportunity to swap with the dealer who had an identical convertible before signing on the dotted line. :(

 

C'est la vie, I s'pose.

 

 

Ahh!! Taking the convertible out on a 79 degree fall day is nice. I just feel wierd when everyone is staring at me. :salute:

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Well, I suppose the BOSS 302 isn't all that bad news for GT500 Convertible owners - as GT500 remains the undisputed king of the drop tops by any measure. As much as I enjoy my coupe, I really wish I had taken the opportunity to swap with the dealer who had an identical convertible before signing on the dotted line. :(

 

C'est la vie, I s'pose.

 

:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: Really, the GT500 is the undisputed King of the drop tops? You might not have seen my SGT/SC vert on a road race course yet.

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I don't think there's much doubt that BOSS 302 will be "harsher", and likely to make the least best daily driver of the bunch. I suspect BOSS 302 may eventually become the wundercar so many people think, but I just don't see how Ford's product rationale reconciles otherwise.

 

 

 

I don't think it will ride harsh at all. The street Boss 302's suspension has 5 adjustable settings. Setting 1 is the same as the 5.0 with Brembo brakes. Setting 5 will be equal to the Boss 302 LS setting 1. So the LS will be the Boss with the harsh ride.

 

The Boss will be a great track car and handle on the track better than the GT500. How much better? No idea. But the Boss is really aimed at a fairly limited group. It will have no options offered on it, no Nav,, no security, no power seats, a base radio only. It's very stripped down. I was considering getting one but I realized it just was not going to be a good fit for me. I decided to keep my 08 GT500 and turn it into a Super Snake.

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At the LA Auto Show they had two versions

of the 2012 Boss 302 and one was on Dyno

Demo....... But no GT500s.......WTH???????

 

 

When asked about the GT500, I was told by one of the Ford reps that was working the L.A. show that there will be no GT500's shown at any auto show this year. The featured Mustang during this year's show circuit is the Boss, and that's what they are promoting front and center.

 

Looks like the GT500 is evolving into a step child as it enters into it's "old age".

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