HELP! '09 GT500KR or '11 GT500?

[Whammer]

Here's a copy of the email I sent to the dealer yesterday-

 

Mary Jane,

 

I decided to send you an email because it's easier for you to print this out and give it to Brian to read rather than trying to verbally pass info along to him.

 

I've done a lot of homework and contacted several dealers, some of whom previously had KR's to sell.

General opinion is that I'm getting screwed over big time; asking price for your car is too high and trade in value for my car is too low.

 

I like the KR but it is just a car and as you have found out it is not that easy to sell. You've had the car for at least 4 months and now you've taken it off the showroom and stuck it in a garage for the winter. You and I both know this car is not going to sell for AT LEAST 5 months, by that time the 2012 GT500's will be hitting the lots and the sticker price will be the same as your asking price. This means you're going to have to reduce the asking price for you car if you want any hope of moving it.

 

I have several viable options open to me:

1. I have a great deal on the table for a 2011 GT500 that is loaded, Nav. system, performance package, glass roof and it's selling price is the same as you asking price. I can also be pro-rated on the 5 years remaining on my extended warranty, which saves me $1500 ($1500 that I lose out on if I buy the KR), and trade in value for my car is 35k

 

2. I'm also #1 on my local dealer's list for the new 2012 Boss 302. Only 350 of these cars are coming to Canada and Ford has informed them that their dealership will be getting one (500 dealers in Canada and only 350 cars available). Total US and Canada production will be 3500 cars, this will be a very exclusive vehicle and will have a special plate attached to the engine strut tower showing it's exclusive production number. Again the trade in value for my car is 35k and the Boss will sell for about 45k.

 

3. I can just stay with my 08 (with 5 full years of bumper to bumper, 0 deductible warranty) and save myself 30k.

 

It's tough trying to buy a car and deal a car. Having 2 cars in the deal means there are 2 ways to get screwed.

The dealer always feels they have the upper hand because they have something you want and they seldom want your trade, they act like they are doing you a favour taking it off of your hands for you.

 

Bottomline is the only way I can see any hope of a deal is if I get 35k for my car and your selling price on the KR comes in at 60k.

If I don't hear back by Friday afternoon I'll assume you have no interest in making a deal and I can better narrow down my remaining choices.

 

Thanks for all your time Mary Jane!

[terumi71]

Here's a copy of the email I sent to the dealer yesterday-

 

Mary Jane,

 

I decided to send you an email because it's easier for you to print this out and give it to Brian to read rather than trying to verbally pass info along to him.

 

I've done a lot of homework and contacted several dealers, some of whom previously had KR's to sell.

General opinion is that I'm getting screwed over big time; asking price for your car is too high and trade in value for my car is too low.

 

I like the KR but it is just a car and as you have found out it is not that easy to sell. You've had the car for at least 4 months and now you've taken it off the showroom and stuck it in a garage for the winter. You and I both know this car is not going to sell for AT LEAST 5 months, by that time the 2012 GT500's will be hitting the lots and the sticker price will be the same as your asking price. This means you're going to have to reduce the asking price for you car if you want any hope of moving it.

 

I have several viable options open to me:

1. I have a great deal on the table for a 2011 GT500 that is loaded, Nav. system, performance package, glass roof and it's selling price is the same as you asking price. I can also be pro-rated on the 5 years remaining on my extended warranty, which saves me $1500 ($1500 that I lose out on if I buy the KR), and trade in value for my car is 35k

 

2. I'm also #1 on my local dealer's list for the new 2012 Boss 302. Only 350 of these cars are coming to Canada and Ford has informed them that their dealership will be getting one (500 dealers in Canada and only 350 cars available). Total US and Canada production will be 3500 cars, this will be a very exclusive vehicle and will have a special plate attached to the engine strut tower showing it's exclusive production number. Again the trade in value for my car is 35k and the Boss will sell for about 45k.

 

3. I can just stay with my 08 (with 5 full years of bumper to bumper, 0 deductible warranty) and save myself 30k.

 

It's tough trying to buy a car and deal a car. Having 2 cars in the deal means there are 2 ways to get screwed.

The dealer always feels they have the upper hand because they have something you want and they seldom want your trade, they act like they are doing you a favour taking it off of your hands for you.

 

Bottomline is the only way I can see any hope of a deal is if I get 35k for my car and your selling price on the KR comes in at 60k.

If I don't hear back by Friday afternoon I'll assume you have no interest in making a deal and I can better narrow down my remaining choices.

 

Thanks for all your time Mary Jane!

 

 

Whammer,

 

While your email addresses the obvious points, these are the emotional things that the dealerships deal with every day. They will look through the facts and say, well, Whammer is really saying he wants the car. I think you know these people are trained to spot emotional attachment, and wield that tool like a knife. They are very good at it. I've been through many psychological training exercises in my career, particularly in the military, in POW training. People that are trained to recognize the soft spots of people, and have the training to act on it, are formidable adversaries.

 

You have to draw the line and stand your ground. The realities of the economy, at least here in the USA, cannot be ignored. But not all economies are suffering. My wife is brazilian, and the brazilian economy is not so dependant on the USA as most of the world is. As such, the economy in Brazil is doing great. Especially with the devaluation of the USD. Point is, I don't know how much the economy in Canada is suffering as a result of the recession here in the USA.

 

The exchange rate USD to canadian dollar is .979297 That means on a 60k in canadian dollars, you are paying 58, 757 USD. So you are paying a little premium for the apparently only 3 or so KR's left in Canada. But it is not an outright theft.

 

You therefore have to find out what your GT500 is selling for at auction. This is why you should at least try talking to Don. You might get some insight on valuing your car. That is where the dealer is raping you, IMO.

 

One point I brought up in the trade of my car is that it will be a lot easier in this economy, to sell my SGT, than it will for them to sell a KR. As I said, they gave me 25k for my '07 SGT. Then they had the car on their lot for 27.6k They sold it for I think 26.2k And they sold it in a week. It will be a lot easier for them to move your car than it will be for them to move the KR.

 

IMO, you have to find out the true value of your car. That's where your decision point lay. If your car is truly selling at auction for 25k (bullshit), then so be it. You have to find the true value of your car by numbers. Not by emotion.

 

I understand your pain. And would venture to say that you go to bed and wake up and spend the day ruminating about how to get that KR. And the dealership is ruthlessly aware of it. I know that when I bought mine, I was totally obsessed for 5 days.....trying to justify it. And truth be told, I didn't hit my mark. I missed by 1k. I wanted a 30k difference between the trade and the purchase. I was at exactly 31k. So I too, was willing to pay a premium.

 

Valuing the KR is a little easier....at least here in the USA. As I said, the last KR on the lot from my local dealership, was sold for 54k, including TTL. That's about 5k!!! A lot of money. So the car was sold for 49k. Brand new '08. But the guy who bought it owned a Lamborghini. So he came from the position of emotional strength. He didn't NEED the car...or WANT the car.

 

Trust me...and I'm sure you know what I'm going to say.....the dealer can smell the blood in the water that you really want this car. You don't want the Boss 302. You don't want the '11 GT500. You want the KR. You would LIKE to have those cars. But you really want the KR. And they know it. And its tough to step back and shake your head at the realities when you get emotionally attached on big ticket items like houses and cars.....you're gonna' make the wrong move. We've all been there and done that. Me most especially.

 

Another thing is that that '08 KR has been depreciated. You will not be able to get a new car loan on it. You will have to get a used car loan. And the dealership truly is tired of having that car on their lot. I guarantee it. But they'll never tell you that. The dealership has all the cards...but not all....if you can emotionally detach yourself. They are hurting in all likelyhood and are playing a high stakes poker game with you.

 

That's my .02 + .02 + .02 cents on this purchase. Be strong and try to emotionally step away from it all and hope for the best.

 

Good luck and I really hope it works out for you!

 

Steve

[terumi71]

One more thing

 

Don told me that the dealerships here in the USA were into these KR's for 64k. That's bottom line what the dealership paid for them. Ford and Shelby hung the dealerships out to dry, offering them no cash incentives on selling the car. The only thing they did was do a marketing ploy by give the purchaser another COA signed by Edsel B. Ford II, listing the VIN and CSM # of the car. This certificate was and is not available for ppl that bought the KR when it came out. It didn't exist and Ford is not grandfathering those COA's to early KR owners. You can't get them if the dealership didn't give it to you at the time of purchase.

 

So beyond that, Ford and Shelby has not helped the dealers in moving these cars. And the dealers are taking a bath on them, losing here in the USA 15k in this economy. But remember, those cars have been depriciated in for tax purposes. So they mitigated their losses through depriciation, and will write off the rest of the loss in taxes anyway.

 

Stand your ground. The market value of any car is whatever the market will allow. If the dealership gets lucky and is able to sell a car above market value to the uneducated buyer, then they get lucky. The market value doesn't lie. But dealerships do, everyday, all day! For them its all business. And they don't lose a second of sleep over it.

 

Stand your ground and I recommend talking to Don. You'll gain SOMETHING out of the conversation. Hard facts are power.

[Whammer]

terumi71,

 

Thanks for all the advice and the info.

It's tough not tipping your hand to the dealer. The more facts I come back to them with the more they know I want the car. After all- who does that much homework for something they are not interested in?

 

I was at another dealer this morning and he got out the Canadian Black Book showing wholesale prices of cars. He looked up my 08 and the the wholesale price is 30k. Again here is where emotions come in...I feel my 08 is worth more than that but the facts are it is not. The facts say it is worth 30k, but can I live with that? I don't know if I can. But it doesn't matter what dealer I take it to they are only going to offer the same amount.

Obviously the dealer offering me 35k is showing me how much they want my business.

 

Do I want the KR? Yes, but it also has a number of negatives. The '011 GT500 will dominate it in any performance test you want to put them both through. It's also got some very nice options, next gen Nav and glass roof. In all honesty the KR only has the "touched by Shelby" factor in it's favour....how much is that worth? To almost everyone on the planet it is a complete non issue, it means nothing. To all the KR owners it's almost something that you can't put a value on. To the majority of members on Team Shelby it is also a non factor for the most part, or something they are willing to forgo in favour of their current Shelby.

 

I've already got the KR exhaust and H pipe on my car so it sounds just like a KR, I've also got 3.73's. I could spend under 10K and add a handling pack, CAI and Super Snake hood and my car would perform and look pretty much like a KR. From a monetary perspective that is the logical choice.

[terumi71]

I agree on your point of amping up the car you have being the most logical from a cost perspective.

 

Like pretty much everyone, at least on the KR forum has said, there is still the unquantifiable attraction to the KR...be it the hood...or the grab on history. Like most have said, there will always be future cars that have better performance than the KR. Whether the rareness of the KR tips the scales for you is a tough commitment. That you are looking, rather than improving what you could do on your GT500, begs the question of what is going on inside yourself in the desirability of the KR.

 

I read a post where two guys were debating (arguing), about the merits of the KR vs the GT500. And the KR guys response to the better performance of the newer GT500's was something along the lines of.....you just don't get it in what the KR stands for. The symbology of what Shelby produced as a pre-title vehicle with Shelby being the manufacturer of record. That was his response as I recall.

 

There are many mustang GT out there, where guys have spent 10-15 and 20k in upgrades, that will outperform the KR.......much less GT500 guys doing the same. If its all about performance, clearly, the amping up of your existing car is clearly the answer.

 

For some and possibly many, the KR, "mystique", is all hype. Complete bullshit without value. And I'm not debating that. I've been directly told by a guy I really like and respect, the KR is just an overpriced GT500. Period dot. And I'm not debating that, either.

 

What I am saying is that the KR is rare. And always will be. How much value someone puts on that, is truly a personal opinion. You gotta' pay for exclusivity. I'm sure LA Fitness, a chain gym here in the USA and possibly in Canada, has better equipment and more equipment, than the Manhattan Club in downtown Manhattan. Yet for that exclusivity, Manhattan Club members will pay x10 for membership. I'm sure you know what I'm saying. And in the case of resale of the KR, history has shown that it will command a higher price because of the exclusivity of it. You gotta' pay for that....if its important to you. For many, its not. And in fact my racing buddies back east, racing mustangs, told me point blank, "don't buy that f'ing car". It's too exclusive and you can't do anything with it.

 

To them, exclusivity didn't and doesn't mean s*&t. They could care less. They take their Mach 1's and GT's, race the hell out of them, welding roll cages and suspension work and engine work. The last thing they want is something that they can't modify and or crash without remortgaging the house to fix.

 

If the Canadian black book is a no kidding accurate gauge of what the G500 is actually selling for, then thats a hard number. To me, I'd want to know what is actually paid at auction. That's real. Hard money. And determines the market value. Listing a home with a realtor based on comps, is a rough yardstick of what the house is actually worth. It's when the house sells that the market value is determined.

 

I feel your pain 'bro. It's a tough one, to be sure.

[Whammer]

I'm now thinking of turning my car into a Super Snake. It will have all the looks of the KR and a good deal more HP.

It will cost about 30k to do it and I'm lucky in that I have an authorized Shelby center just 1/2 hour away from me who can do the conversion.

Turning it into an SS removes any problem with taking a hit on dealing my car. If I'm going to spend 30k why not have a very unique car that I've never seen on the street?

 

I love the KR but I've shut off my emotions for it and for me it's just not worth the expense to try and obtain it.

[William Rodgers]

Is it really $30k for a Supersnake conversion???

 

Interesting, what does that come with?

[Whammer]

Is it really $30k for a Supersnake conversion???

 

Interesting, what does that come with?

 

 

30k gets the 630hp SC, handling upgrades, body upgrades that are similar to the KR.

 

http://www.shelbyautos.com/images/pdf/2007ss-flyer-sm.pdf

[terumi71]

Whammer,

 

From everything that you've said, I think that's the way to go in being super happy. If you have the 30k that is. Because you're not going to be able to finance it. That's the only advantage of trading the car in is that you can finance. For many here it seems, money is no object!

 

I think that is the best choice given what you've written. And after reading the upgrade link you posted all's I can say is...wow...what a beast you will have! Very very nice.!

[REAL ONE]

Supersnake sounds like a good option.

 

The KR is an awesome car but if its too much trouble and expense I can understand that at some point you have to move on.

 

Interestingly though, based on the limited number of Canadian KRs the prices are still rather high.

 

Why can't you drive down to the US trade your car in here and drive the new one home?. I know there are some hoops to jump through but its not impossible.

 

All performance cars have a certain amount of hype. Some more then others.

 

Muscle cars of the 60s had hype big time. Today, they can be out run a by some mini vans but would you rather have the new Honda hybrid mini van that goes 0 to 60 in 6 seconds or a mint 65 GTO tri power or other classic 60s muscle car that goes 0 to 60 in 6 seconds? (which was pretty much the average time for 60s muscle cars 0 to 60).

 

I'm picking the Goat or other classic 60s muscle car.

 

Point is...Each year the performance envelope moves further out. The 2012 GT500 will out perform the 2011. the 2013 will out perform the 2012 etc. etc...

 

My point is some cars are more then just cars and more then the sum of their parts based on their history, lore and legend. The KR is one of them. As someone on this forum aptly said the Shelby GT500KR is the "Big Daddy of Mustangs". Some Mustangs may be a click faster but their not a Shelby GT500KR.

[Whammer]

I went to the Shelby Mod shop near me today and put down my deposit for a Super Snake. The car will go in at the end of the month and should be delivered to me 6 weeks after that. I feel really good about it, so that tells me this was the right choice.

 

Thanks again for everyone's input.

[PaulW]

I went to the Shelby Mod shop near me today and put down my deposit for a Super Snake. The car will go in at the end of the month and should be delivered to me 6 weeks after that. I feel really good about it, so that tells me this was the right choice.

 

Thanks again for everyone's input.

 

 

Congrats!!! I know you'll be pleased with the SSnake. Just be carefull with all that power! Post up some pics when you get her back.

[terumi71]

I went to the Shelby Mod shop near me today and put down my deposit for a Super Snake. The car will go in at the end of the month and should be delivered to me 6 weeks after that. I feel really good about it, so that tells me this was the right choice.

 

Thanks again for everyone's input.

[/quote

 

That's great whammer!! It sounds like everything considered, you found what you really wanted to do. Personally, I think you are going to love your upfit and will never look back. Super Congrats!!

[REAL ONE]

The Supersnake is a great choice!

 

Enjoy!!!

[Captain Beyond]

I went to the Shelby Mod shop near me today and put down my deposit for a Super Snake. The car will go in at the end of the month and should be delivered to me 6 weeks after that. I feel really good about it, so that tells me this was the right choice.

 

Thanks again for everyone's input.

 

 

That's an excellent choice. :beerchug:

The Super Snake is still the ultimate Mustang.

Which package did you go with? 630 HP? or 750 HP?

[Whammer]

That's an excellent choice. :beerchug:

The Super Snake is still the ultimate Mustang.

Which package did you go with? 630 HP? or 750 HP?

 

 

 

750 HP. I don't really need all that power but it's easy to detune it with just a pulley swap and drop it down to 650 (or something like that). If I got the 630 and later decided I wanted more it would cost about 9k including labor to install it.

[Whammer]

Thanks everyone! All of you have been very helpful and supportive throughout all of this and while I'm not a KR owner we are all owners of very unique Shelby cars and the feeling is awesome!

 

As an aside....I'm a fireman and my Super Snake # is 08SS0911. I was lucky enough to request the 9-11 number from Shelby and they were kind enough to give it to me. Not a big deal but it's makes it a bit more special to me.

[DDT]

Thanks everyone! All of you have been very helpful and supportive throughout all of this and while I'm not a KR owner we are all owners of very unique Shelby cars and the feeling is awesome!

 

As an aside....I'm a fireman and my Super Snake # is 08SS0911. I was lucky enough to request the 9-11 number from Shelby and they were kind enough to give it to me. Not a big deal but it's makes it a bit more special to me.

 

 

Took you a while but you finally came to the

"RIGHT DECISION".......

[REAL ONE]

Whammer: I think that your being able to key your SS CSM to relate to what you do makes it all that more special. Very cool!

 

 

As Shelby guys we have to have each others backs. Make sure you post pics. White SS's are way cool!! Gorgeous!

[FiaCobra]

Congrats

 

....watch, the dealer will call you back and take your offer.....lol