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Old cars v. New Cars


gth0007

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Was at a car show yesterday and a guy had a nice 1967 Fairlane factory drag car with the 427, dual quads. He had a poster display that highlighted the performance of the car as reported by various 1967 era magazines. Best 1/4 times, as I recall, were the high 10's, low 11's. Also Car Review magazine a few months ago had a list of the top 50 fastest cars as reported by road tests done in the 60's. You can't help but notice that any number of cars built today would eat the older cars alive in every performance aspect, , Shelbys, Corvettes, Challengers, Camaros, Subaru WRXs (gulp), 350Zs, BMWs, and the list goes on and on. All the while with the A/C on and your favorite CD playing. While I love the old cars, they are just , well, "old cars". The point of the post is that we need to really appreciate the performance cars of today. I remember the early-Mid 70's when performance was evil, there was an oil embargo where we had to wait in line to get gas, the safety nuts were howling, the EPA whackos were becoming vocal, and so we got a lot of very forgettable cars as a result. As I notice the electric cars, the Prius, hybrids, and a growing "green crowd" emerging, it would appear the mid-early 70's are going to happen again, as they say, "history repeats itself". I guess we should drive our Shelbys, Just an opinion.

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The 60's muscle cars were amazing. And they did it with purely mechanicals. No superchargers or anything. The 427FE was and is a mechanical marvel.

 

Everyone says "I wish they'd build 'em like that again". Well, think about it. Those engines needed to be rebuilt every 20-30K miles. Modern machining techniques and lubricants have made it 10 times that. And think of brakes and steering. Yeah, they look cool now, but I'll take some of the modern improvements.

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The classics have their place in history and they were (and a still are) the cars I dreamed of owning some day. Interesting part of the original post was about the 70's. The oil embargo and enviromental movement caused several years of poor performing cars, however, without it we wouldn't have been forced to think about things differently. Today's cars and us as owners are the major benefactors of that hard work in increased performance with a tenfold decrease in pollutants. Lead being a huge one with unleaded gas. (Can't belive that I used to clean up my greasy hands by rinsing them off in leaded gas.) A couple steps back moved us into the future with great gas milage, lower emissions, and performance. I am not sure we will have a total repeat of the 70's, expecially with a major (not so dirty as it is made out) oil source here in Canada from the oilsands.

 

Cheers

Brett

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The classics have their place in history and they were (and a still are) the cars I dreamed of owning some day. Interesting part of the original post was about the 70's. The oil embargo and enviromental movement caused several years of poor performing cars, however, without it we wouldn't have been forced to think about things differently. Today's cars and us as owners are the major benefactors of that hard work in increased performance with a tenfold decrease in pollutants. Lead being a huge one with unleaded gas. (Can't belive that I used to clean up my greasy hands by rinsing them off in leaded gas.) A couple steps back moved us into the future with great gas milage, lower emissions, and performance. I am not sure we will have a total repeat of the 70's, expecially with a major (not so dirty as it is made out) oil source here in Canada from the oilsands.

 

Cheers

Brett

 

 

Oh yeah.

 

My first car (and new car) was a 1973 Chevelle. I had the option of a 72 Chevelle and a Nova and decided I wanted the new model year. They took a great 350 and made it have a whopping 98hp. Couldn't get out of its own way.

 

I grew up on a farm. After we were done changing working on the tractors and other equipment we'd clean off the grease and oil (often well beyond elbows and shoulders) with gas. Leaded. High test. I'm pretty pretty norm normal normal. I iI Think.

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I've tossed this question around quite a bit of late. My daughter turns 11 this year so its about time to start building a car for her. Do I restore a vintage stang for her or buy her a nice 05 or 06 legend lime convertible and mod the fenders off it? I think i've come to the conclusion that she will get the Limer. The steering, the brakes, suspension, everything is just far superior to the vintage cars. If I did buy her say, a 66 vert stang, then I would have to go the resto-mod line of action and add in all the amenities of todays cars, four wheel disk, more than likely a rack and pinion steering, and an FI 5.0. And of course catch all kinds of crap from concours type people.

While the closeness of a restoration project would be fantastic, it can be done while adding Agent 47 mirrors, a pony interior, or any other number of mods to an S197, as we experienced with my 05.

 

Another example of this debate would be, about 2 years ago we did a cruise to Tupelo, MS from Memphis. One of the ladies in the club has a gorgeous 1967 Fastback, concours I believe. She has owned the car since 73 or so and loves it to death. What did she drive to tupelo? A new t-bird. I asked why, and her answer was have you ever tried to drive a car that far with no power steering and bias ply tires? I saw her point.

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The "Good Ole Days" for me were GREAT. They were the Mid 80's and I used to own some very cool Cars such as a 1970 R Code Mach 1(amoung many others) that I was always tinkering on. I was always changing Cars back then, about every 6 Months I was driving a different Car. It was Great, I was in my mid Twinties, with barely a care in the world, Cruising every Friday & Saturday Night, Street Racing in the Boonies, Man those were the Days..........................................

 

Roll Up Windows, No A/C, AM Radio, Holding in the Button to Lock the Doors, Using a Match Book Cover to set the Points, The only "Air Bag" in the Car was the Girl in the Passenger Seat, ....................

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I have old and new and I love them both but I must admit to tiring of the constant maintenance and upkeep required on the old ones. I took the XR7-G to a show 60 miles away last weekend and it blew a PS hose and started vapor locking on me....really tested my patience....

 

I don't bother taking the GT-500 to shows, they are so common at this point it's kinda sad

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Loved the "good ol' days"....cheap gas, gobs of horsepower, skinny tires, beating your clothes out on a rock in the creek......Murphy's law of history--the older we get the faster we were......I look at the engine in my son's 73 Jensen Healey, the only thing in there is the engine and the alternator.....period! So simple! I dropped by one of my favorite mechanic's shop the week I bought the GT 500, he's an all Chevy guy, but he really appreciates this series of Mustangs and was marveling over the 500 horse engine. He's got a 70something Chevelle, 454, all decked out, been in magazines, original owner and all that stuff and he said, "You know, I could get 500 horses out of my Chevelle, but you wouldn't want to stay in it long." True. I still marvel at my GT 500's 1/4 mile capabilities and the sheer muscle of it, while I pull 20+mpg on a road trip, a/c, cd, power everything and a comfortable (non-biased tires) ride.......

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There is no comparisin between the old and new. The newer cars are soo much better. But, if you grew up in that era, there will always be a link of the heart. Those were great days and the cars carry that feeling with them. So, I still have my OLD toy along with my 08. While the older cars were less reliable (at 70K (not 20-30) it was time to dump it) they were also easier to work on.

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Here is my take I restomodded a 65 falcon convertable (347 stroker motor,high compression eddlebrock alum heads1.7 rollerrockers girdled bottom end hedders disc brakes 4;10's highstall3500 rpm tqconverter pretty much the whole deal

rfsidetuc.jpg

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took one ride with Vinny in the white SGTSC (whitey) @ SAI... and sold my falcon 2 weeks later and got my SGT from SAI, supercharged it and added all those other goodies do I miss my falcon sometimes was it driveable? not really... 110 octane @5.60 a gallon while getting 9 MPG it has a cool cam sound (flowmaster 40's)

SGT runs Low 12's gets 23 MPG @85 MPH with the AC on. The Falcon had it on the cool factor but the SGT won everything else....

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Here is my take I restomodded a 65 falcon convertable (347 stroker motor,high compression eddlebrock alum heads1.7 rollerrockers girdled bottom end hedders disc brakes 4;10's highstall3500 rpm tqconverter pretty much the whole deal

rfsidetuc.jpg

topside5.jpg

took one ride with Vinny in the white SGTSC (whitey) @ SAI... and sold my falcon 2 weeks later and got my SGT from SAI, supercharged it and added all those other goodies do I miss my falcon sometimes was it driveable? not really... 110 octane @5.60 a gallon while getting 9 MPG it has a cool cam sound (flowmaster 40's)

SGT runs Low 12's gets 23 MPG @85 MPH with the AC on. The Falcon had it on the cool factor but the SGT won everything else....

 

 

 

 

Too bad you couldnt have kept the Falcon too. That is one of the nicest falcon restorations I have seen and nice color combo too. They do ride like a chuck wagon though. Is that paint color "nightmist blue"?

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RareCat, SvtTim, and Wheelman all said it to a tee...

 

The old stuff holds a place in our hearts depending on how old you are. It's alot like turning on the radio to the oldies station for the 60-something crowd, and guys like me (50) listening to the classic rock stations....There is ALWAYS a song that takes you back to a time. Sometimes that song coincides with a car of the time?? The feeling music gives me of the old days is in some ways very similar to the feeling I get looking at and driving older cars!

 

If you notice the case in point to this, what do the disc jockeys play at car shows??? The GOOD car shows, that is. They don't play Madonna, Hootie and the Blowfish, or Michael Jackson!! Right? As you walk around checking out the cars and talking with like minded guys about their 57 Bel-Air, you will no doubt from time to time notice what's playing on the big speakers in the background, and get taken back for that moment.

 

OK :backtotopic: ... As for the cars of today and yesterday, isn't it sweet to have maybe one of each, as it seems alot of TS members do? This way for the local cruise-ins you drive the oldie without too much fear of blowing a p/s hose and getting stuck too far away. Then, when you want to take a hotrod on vacay, or to a show in the next state, hop in the 'late model' hotrod! It's sorta the best of both worlds. Of course this only works if you have an understanding wife!! :shades:

 

There's a place for both old and new. JMHO

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This is a great thread. I'm only 27 which is a lot younger than most people on TS. My dream car, if I could ever have one is a 69' Boss 429. I do a lot of reading about the old cars, especially the Mustangs and I often wish I would have grown up one generation earlier to have been a part of the early muscle car era. Looking at all the old pictures or seeing these awesome cars at the shows, I just get the feeling it was way better back then. The performance has definitely improved and I do believe we are in a second coming of a muscle car era with the Mustangs, new Camaros, and the Challengers, but I think the times were so different back then and that's what made it so good. I do think that most of the muscle cars from the 60's look better than they do now. I love everything about my 07' SGT, especially how I think it most closely resembles a 1965-1967 Mustang compared to all the new 05'+ stangs. I just think that the general feeling and attitude is so much different today. Better performing cars but not better times....haha, I say that and I wasn't even around back then! B)

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Was at a car show yesterday and a guy had a nice 1967 Fairlane factory drag car with the 427, dual quads. He had a poster display that highlighted the performance of the car as reported by various 1967 era magazines. Best 1/4 times, as I recall, were the high 10's, low 11's. Also Car Review magazine a few months ago had a list of the top 50 fastest cars as reported by road tests done in the 60's. You can't help but notice that any number of cars built today would eat the older cars alive in every performance aspect, , Shelbys, Corvettes, Challengers, Camaros, Subaru WRXs (gulp), 350Zs, BMWs, and the list goes on and on. All the while with the A/C on and your favorite CD playing. While I love the old cars, they are just , well, "old cars". The point of the post is that we need to really appreciate the performance cars of today. I remember the early-Mid 70's when performance was evil, there was an oil embargo where we had to wait in line to get gas, the safety nuts were howling, the EPA whackos were becoming vocal, and so we got a lot of very forgettable cars as a result. As I notice the electric cars, the Prius, hybrids, and a growing "green crowd" emerging, it would appear the mid-early 70's are going to happen again, as they say, "history repeats itself". I guess we should drive our Shelbys, Just an opinion.

 

 

What great responses. It's impressive how the younger guys are interested in the "old days". Let's add a favorite story to the thread. As an older member, graduated high school in 1966, my teenage years are right out of the movie "American Graffiti". My friends I "cruised the drive-ins" with had great cars, 1955 Chevy Belair, 1957 Ford Fairlane, 1963 Impala 409, 1964 GTO. My brother had a 1965 Mustang coupe which I had total use of AND he had a best friend who had a 1965 GTO, a car I got to use many times. What fools brothers and their friends are!! Best of all, in 1966 my sister's boyfriend had a 1966 Corvette convertible, that I got to use during 1966 Homecoming parade and festivities. My first love was part of the Homecoming court so she road in the parade with me behind the wheel of the Vette. So, yes these were the "good ole days" and life was very good.

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Was at a car show yesterday and a guy had a nice 1967 Fairlane factory drag car with the 427, dual quads. He had a poster display that highlighted the performance of the car as reported by various 1967 era magazines. Best 1/4 times, as I recall, were the high 10's, low 11's. Also Car Review magazine a few months ago had a list of the top 50 fastest cars as reported by road tests done in the 60's. You can't help but notice that any number of cars built today would eat the older cars alive in every performance aspect, , Shelbys, Corvettes, Challengers, Camaros, Subaru WRXs (gulp), 350Zs, BMWs, and the list goes on and on. All the while with the A/C on and your favorite CD playing. While I love the old cars, they are just , well, "old cars". The point of the post is that we need to really appreciate the performance cars of today. I remember the early-Mid 70's when performance was evil, there was an oil embargo where we had to wait in line to get gas, the safety nuts were howling, the EPA whackos were becoming vocal, and so we got a lot of very forgettable cars as a result. As I notice the electric cars, the Prius, hybrids, and a growing "green crowd" emerging, it would appear the mid-early 70's are going to happen again, as they say, "history repeats itself". I guess we should drive our Shelbys, Just an opinion.

 

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This is a great thread. I'm only 27 which is a lot younger than most people on TS. My dream car, if I could ever have one is a 69' Boss 429. I do a lot of reading about the old cars, especially the Mustangs and I often wish I would have grown up one generation earlier to have been a part of the early muscle car era. Looking at all the old pictures or seeing these awesome cars at the shows, I just get the feeling it was way better back then. The performance has definitely improved and I do believe we are in a second coming of a muscle car era with the Mustangs, new Camaros, and the Challengers, but I think the times were so different back then and that's what made it so good. I do think that most of the muscle cars from the 60's look better than they do now. I love everything about my 07' SGT, especially how I think it most closely resembles a 1965-1967 Mustang compared to all the new 05'+ stangs. I just think that the general feeling and attitude is so much different today. Better performing cars but not better times....haha, I say that and I wasn't even around back then! B)

 

I agree with you speedy. I am right there with you. I am 36, but chose the old school route. I get to drive my 65 Shelby tribute every day and believe me, it outweighs the aggravation that occurs at times. Owning a classic is like a marriage, you have hard times, but having it is better than without. Love outweighs the hard times.If anything, restomoding can give that classic modern amenities. For me, I am just fine with bare necessities. I get to drive my dream car everyday. I think it all boils down to personal tastes. The one thing I think about is that I love the newer cars, but what about 10, 20, or even 50 yrs from now. What about these new cars getting wear and tear like the old cars. Will you see the average Joe like me dropping a engine, rebuilding it, and then reinstalling the engine back in the car ( DYI in one's own drive way ) with an 05-? Mustang,Shelby, or any car for that matter in the future. Hopefully 30 yrs from now, I will still be able to rebuild an engine for my 65 and drive her some more.

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  • 6 months later...

The classics have their place in history and they were (and a still are) the cars I dreamed of owning some day. Interesting part of the original post was about the 70's. The oil embargo and enviromental movement caused several years of poor performing cars, however, without it we wouldn't have been forced to think about things differently. Today's cars and us as owners are the major benefactors of that hard work in increased performance with a tenfold decrease in pollutants. Lead being a huge one with unleaded gas. (Can't belive that I used to clean up my greasy hands by rinsing them off in leaded gas.) A couple steps back moved us into the future with great gas milage, lower emissions, and performance. I am not sure we will have a total repeat of the 70's, expecially with a major (not so dirty as it is made out) oil source here in Canada from the oilsands.

 

Cheers

Brett

 

 

"(Can't belive that I used to clean up my greasy hands by rinsing them off in leaded gas.) "

 

How many fingers am I holding up? :rockon:

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I was in high school in the Muscle Car era and started college in 1970. One of my early cars back then was 1970 428-4V SCJ Mustang with auto and 4.30 gears. I had “state of the art” Goodyear Polyglass F70-14 tires and they were useless at anything over half throttle. Gas mileage was 5 to 7 mpg in daily driving and 10 to 11 mpg at 60 mph on the highway. Stop and go traffic fouled the spark plugs and if you caught three red lights in a row on a hot day it would tend to overheat. The floorboard would get so hot that you didn’t dare drive bare-footed. With the 4.30 gears it would run out of breath about 50 yards from the end of the quarter mile while running 13.7’s+ at up 104 mph. This was on a stock car with the only mod being a set of glasspack mufflers (Cherry Bombs, of course). Gas was .35 a gallon back then. For the price of gallon of gas today I could get 10 to 12 gallons back then. I finally sold it in 1977 when gas hit .75 a gallon and I couldn’t afford to drive it any more (LOL). It had 47K miles on it when I sold it. I loved that car but for $1650 in 1977 I thought I made a killing selling it.

 

I had a couple of Fox-bodied 5.0 in the late eighties and early nineties and couldn’t believe that they could build a car that was nearly as fast as my old Super Cobra Jet 428 but with air and power windows plus got 18+ mpg in daily driving and 25 plus on the highway. Then I got a 2003 Mach 1 with 5-speed and it was faster than the old 428’s and got better gas mileage than a 1971 Ford Pinto. Plus you could drive it 12 hours straight and get where you were going without your back killing you.

 

Today I own a 2011 GT-500 and a classic 1970 Mach 1 with 351C-4V. I love my classic Mustang and all Muscle Cars from that era but head to head against today’s cars they don’t measure up too well in any area. Today a 2011 V-6 Mustang would run circles around any muscle Mustang build from 1965 to 1972. Any showroom new stock Mustang from back then would finish second in the quarter-mile, 0-60, stopping, handling plus todays get better gas mileage than any six-cylinder Maverick or four cylinder Pinto from those years. I also owned a 1970 Grabber Package Fastback Mustang back then with a 302-2V and my ’11 Shelby gets better gas mileage with three times the rear wheel horsepower.

 

I love the old ones but todays are a quantum leap over the old ones.

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The main difference i see is when driving the 68 or the 65 ...................I never !!!!! have another one pull up along side .

 

New gen cars are so common now its not a big deal to see one .

 

 

 

And if it wasn't for the Old cars there would be no new cars. The won the races and made the history to perpetuate the blood lines.

 

Respect the elders they might not be faster but they have some tricks up their sleeves.

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Put it this way- newer cars have more technology in the car, and use more technology building them as well. In general, build quality is higher, however materials are often cheaper.

 

To me the main difference between a new Shelby and an old Shelby is that the older cars were rough and loud. These days, muscle cars, inc. Shelbys, are built to be quiet and comfortable while still being fast. The older cars were more for the hardcore driver with stiffer suspensions, interior delete options, and side exhausts. I remember when I first saw a 2007 GT500 with a leather interior- I laughed for a few minutes. Here I am looking at this new GT500 as a Corvette hunter, and someone wants to sell me fancy seats and a stereo with extra subwoofers. Cars, in general, have become too soft in terms of character. It's all about plush seats, cushy suspensions, fancy stereos, and navigation. To heck with that! I want a driver's car, a true performance vehicle; and I often modify my vehicles that way.

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I look back often and think about all the Muscle cars I've had. Gosh there were fun and very fast. I've softend in my old age and with that I like the newer cards. Those old ones were rough and tough and were a real mans car. Now, like has been said, the newer cars are about soft seats, stereos that will break the glass, and blow your ear drums out. Oh, and don't forget we have to have the NAV. Heck, read the road signs and drive. The boom boxs that they have now days, in my cars, is usually shut off. I want to hear the engine and trans working. I currently own two of the old school vehicles and just love to go out with them. People are correct, you don't see them pull up next to your very often. Now, I'm about to get my very first Mustang soon and see how this one works. Traded off a 2010 Camaro for the Shelby. Nice car, but just not fast enough. Didn't want to wait for the ZL1 and I think the Shelby will be a better car. If that doesn't work, then I'll get the 2013 Shelby.

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Ok guys,lets have fun with the poll. Choose "A" for the classic, "B" for the new, "C" for the Shelby Semi " that choice is for all the clowns out there" Remember, whatever choice that is picked, it will be the correct answer no matter what.

As for me, I chose the classic route. Thats my 65 in the picture. I will tell you that the new GT350 next to her is absolutely beautiful.

post-28087-0-04823000-1302989197_thumb.jpg

post-28087-0-04823000-1302989197_thumb.jpg

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Honestly, if someone offered me either the old or the new GT350. I would have to take the classic one. It is one of my all time favorite cars. I've been wanting one of those since I was kid. Not that I would pass on a new GT350, but the old has more meaning to me.

 

Oh, so I vote A, for classic.

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