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Caddy doing 0-60 in 3.9, how?


Whammer

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Can some explain to me how the Caddy CTS-V, which weighs in 4,250lbs, do 0-60 in 3.9 seconds?

I can accept that the GT 500 is not the ultimate car. I just don't understand how the damn thing can't get a lower 0-60 time?

It will be interesting to see what the Z28 is going to be able to do.

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The gear ratio could have a huge part in that, along with traction differences.

I also have to believe that the HP rating is a little on the "conservative" side. It's a 6.2 Liter with a TVS making 9 psi. Even though the 5.4 is more efficient engine, we're seeing 600 RWHP with a TVS which is pebbly dam near 750 at the crank. That would lead me to believe that the 6.2 has to be at least making 600 at the crank right :headscratch:

 

 

One thing's for sure, those things are beasts with a little bit of work. A pulley, headers and a tune and they go LOW 11's, add some nitrous and they go well into the 10's. I know 500's do too, but I never expected that out of a Caddy until I googled some videos of them. I'm impressed.

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^^^ Yup what he said! ^^^ I forgot all about that. If the CTS-V has the same launch control that the Vettes and Camaros have, that could be a very good reason as to why its able to scoot out so quickly. That launch control is IMPRESSIVE in its ability to put power where it belongs.

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with the right person driving,i think that the GT500 is quicker than the cts-v.muscle mustangs & fast fords october 2009,on stock tires the GT500 pulled a 11.9@120!!!if ford uses wider tires for the car,the numbers would improve.

 

ive driven one--its the A/T--no slippage or missed shifts or wheel hop

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I know traction seems to have always been a problem with the Shelby....next question is....why is it still?

What makes this car so hard to hook up?

 

 

Skinny tires and an archaic suspension design (SRA) that moves side to side when the car squats make the GT500 squirrely and hard to hook up. The 0-60 time was for a manual, not the automatic CTS-V, btw, and the CTS-V comes in at 4200 and change. The LSA engine makes around 430-460 to the tires in the CTS-V platform.

 

People have run 11's in bone-stock CTS-V's before. They weren't Evan Smith, either.

http://s379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/mpoulsen25/?action=view&current=020.mp4

1.9X 60' on this run.

 

The CTS-V has an engine/transmission that is well matched, and a suspension that matches the rest of the car. It is a complete package, if a *bit* heavy.

 

The GT500 has a transmission and an engine and a rear-end, but the suspension and tires kill the car.

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with the right person driving,i think that the GT500 is quicker than the cts-v.muscle mustangs & fast fords october 2009,on stock tires the GT500 pulled a 11.9@120!!!if ford uses wider tires for the car,the numbers would improve.

 

 

They can't because it would rub the fender-well since they chose to use a SRA setup. When the car squats, the rear-end is pushed out to one side due to the suspension geometry and this would foul the tire up in a hurry on the fender-well. Unless they go to a watts or something, they are stuck with chicken-legs.

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Traction and wheel hop conspire to hurt the GT500 off the line. There have been several GT500's running at our local dragstrips and I can kill them off the line, but they do pull harder than me past the 1/8 mile mark and almost catch me by the 1/4 mile stripe. My car runs 0-60 mph in 3.7 seconds, by the way. The CTS-V is an impressive beast that has much better manners on launch. Gotta give GM kudos for building such a performer even if it ain't the prettiest car on the track.

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They can't because it would rub the fender-well since they chose to use a SRA setup. When the car squats, the rear-end is pushed out to one side due to the suspension geometry and this would foul the tire up in a hurry on the fender-well. Unless they go to a watts or something, they are stuck with chicken-legs.

 

 

 

Not to side track this but, somewhere recently, someone noticed how ALL the GT500 axles are of center a bit. Maybe this is the reason. When the car squats is centers up. Wonder what will happen with those that installed adjustable components to recenter the axle. When the rear squats, axle shifts, tire rubs in whelel well? How does the "Watts" work to fix this? And, will it make a difference against the likes of an independent GM rear?

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This is a very simple thing. The Caddy has a few advantages in stock form. IRS, Auto Trans, and bigger tires. 1. IRS is great but not near as hearty as our solid axle. Now if Ford could make an IRS that would be as reliable as the 8.8 I would go for it. Talk to any 03,04 owner who has modded their car and they have spent thousands either trying out bigger half shafts or installing an 8.8. 2. Auto trans- This subject has just about been beat to death on here, but one more time for the cheap seats. YES an auto trans (preferably twin clutch) would be faster in our cars. If you want an auto trans car than dont buy a GT500!!!!!!!! I dont care if my car is a little slower I love shifting. And once again when you start modding the manual is much more reliable. Ask anyone who has a CTSV, GTR, or any moddern auto trany car that has had to replace it how they feel! 3. Bigger tires- Buy a second set of rims and put drag raddials or slick on then. That will end the argument. Guys understand you are getting all bent out of shape over 0-60 times. So what? In the real world (for me anyway) just about every race I am in is from some sort of roll. Race a CTSV from a 50 roll and the playing field is even. Understand that 0-60 times and quarter mile times are not as important as trap speed which show how much power a car is making. As mentioned earlier the MM&FF car ran 120 in 90 temps and high humidity. Thats not bad. These cars are wonderful platforms for modding and that is what makes them so spectacular!

 

Dan

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Not to side track this but, somewhere recently, someone noticed how ALL the GT500 axles are of center a bit. Maybe this is the reason. When the car squats is centers up. Wonder what will happen with those that installed adjustable components to recenter the axle. When the rear squats, axle shifts, tire rubs in whelel well? How does the "Watts" work to fix this? And, will it make a difference against the likes of an independent GM rear?

 

 

A watts link is a substantial improvement on our cars. Even the watts from Shelby can improve the car. The Saleen watts and the Chicane watts are fixed, not adjustable, cost more and sets for one ride height but allow you to dig in with zero wheel hop. If your car doesn't have the Shelby rear brake ducts it's easy enough to get 11" X 18" rims that allow up to a 315 so you can get more traction and launch. The stock suspension is designed to suit an older softer driver since the GT500 is marketed to an older buyer. @ 58 years old in a couple days, I'm a bit insulted by this marketing ploy. The SVT folks should realize it's not just old people that want quality performace muscle cars. I currently use the KW coilovers with the Chicane watts link and on 20" SS rims loaded with Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta tires I managed a respectable 11.185 seconds with a 0 - 60 at 4 seconds flat. Keep in mind my car is a 4400 pound rag top.

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The 3:31 GT500 Diff does not help the 0-60 time.........

 

 

The 2010 has a 3.55 and the 2011, i believe, has the same 3.55 or ??? in SVTPP form

 

A watts link is a substantial improvement on our cars. Even the watts from Shelby can improve the car. The Saleen watts and the Chicane watts are fixed, not adjustable, cost more and sets for one ride height but allow you to dig in with zero wheel hop. If your car doesn't have the Shelby rear brake ducts it's easy enough to get 11" X 18" rims that allow up to a 315 so you can get more traction and launch. The stock suspension is designed to suit an older softer driver since the GT500 is marketed to an older buyer. @ 58 years old in a couple days, I'm a bit insulted by this marketing ploy. The SVT folks should realize it's not just old people that want quality performace muscle cars. I currently use the KW coilovers with the Chicane watts link and on 20" SS rims loaded with Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta tires I managed a respectable 11.185 seconds with a 0 - 60 at 4 seconds flat. Keep in mind my car is a 4400 pound rag top.

 

 

Thanks, sounds like the playing field would be to our advantage if Ford would put a watts on at what seems a nominal price over the current setup. All this without sacrificing much ride quality...

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I think what's a bit disappointing to me is that the GT500 just doesn't have the track or 1/4 mile performance most people would expect it to have. It needs several mods to help it to compete.

I'm 99.9% sure I'm getting the Boss 302 and I have no doubt that in stock form the Boss will punish a stock GT500 around the track or in the 1/4 mile. At 300lbs. lighter weight the Boss will feel quicker and more nimble on the street or on the track.

 

I love the looks of the GT500 and it is a fun car to drive but it's got several disadvantages that even throwing lots of money at it can't overcome.

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I think what's a bit disappointing to me is that the GT500 just doesn't have the track or 1/4 mile performance most people would expect it to have. It needs several mods to help it to compete.

I'm 99.9% sure I'm getting the Boss 302 and I have no doubt that in stock form the Boss will punish a stock GT500 around the track or in the 1/4 mile. At 300lbs. lighter weight the Boss will feel quicker and more nimble on the street or on the track.

 

I love the looks of the GT500 and it is a fun car to drive but it's got several disadvantages that even throwing lots of money at it can't overcome.

 

 

The 2011 vert is a 4000 lb car I believe the coupe is 3700 lb's with the SVTPP and a watts link it should be a serious contender on 1/4 mile runs. I'm sure most of you know that if you get the FRPP throttle body, 2.6 upper pulley or larger lower pulley and a really good tune you can get 560 - 580 bhp and somewhere in or about 525 pound foot of torque to the ground easily. These numbers are based on a very conservative tune. You can get much more if you have access to a very good tuner that knows how to get power without making the tune unsafe. I'm sure Steeda & JLT do or will have a larger cold air intake too. So smoking a GM car shouldn't be a big issue really but it does cost some time and money. My stock GT500 made more power than my SS on it's return from SAI but after re-tuning and using the new Ford Racing throttle body, my car now makes 661 bhp and 611 torque and she runs nice and safe. Of course letting Chicane install his watts link made a huge difference not to mention the KW coilovers, sway bar sub frame brace. The are parts that over all make it a sweet track car. I haven't done the 1/4 mile or a 0 - 60 measure since the new tune. I did get in a bit of run last night with a 550 hp SLP Camaroooo and kicked it's butt seriously. His car is 800 lb's lighter and my wife was in my car ..... An extra 110 lb's smile.gif so clearly it can be done

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I think what's a bit disappointing to me is that the GT500 just doesn't have the track or 1/4 mile performance most people would expect it to have. It needs several mods to help it to compete.

I'm 99.9% sure I'm getting the Boss 302 and I have no doubt that in stock form the Boss will punish a stock GT500 around the track or in the 1/4 mile. At 300lbs. lighter weight the Boss will feel quicker and more nimble on the street or on the track.

 

I love the looks of the GT500 and it is a fun car to drive but it's got several disadvantages that even throwing lots of money at it can't overcome.

 

 

There is no such thing as something that "throwing lots of money at" can't overcome... :shift:

 

My GT500 went 12.4x @ 117 completely stock down to the tires. I think that's pretty respectable and the trap speed alone shows the potential the car has with some practice and better skill behind the wheel. I'd hardly say that that's "dissapointing" in terms of performance. Mine's a 2010, put me in a 2011 with the track pack and I bet I can turn that 12.4x into at least a 12.2x with just the better gears and suspension alone.

 

As for the Boss "punnishing" the GT500 on the track and in the 1/4 mile, I think your setting yourself up for some serious dissapointment with expectations that high. The 2011 GT500 with the track pack will have 110 HP more than the 440 HP that the Boss is reported to put out and in terms of 1/4 mile times, the real stat is the torque. The 130 ft.lbs of torque that the 500 has over the Boss will be hard to run down and overcome at the top end based on only a marjonal horse power to weight advantage for the Boss. I don't know much about road racing, but I do know a thing or two about drag racing and I can assure you that 300 pounds will not be enough to overcome a disadvantage of 130 ft. lbs. of torque and 110 HP with driver skill and traction being equal.

Lets also not forget that we're comparing a 2011 GT500 to a 2012 Boss. You have to believe that there will be changes to the 2012 GT500, just like there were for the 2011 and those changes are only going to increase the performance.

 

I'm not saying that the Boss is not an awesome looking car with some great potetnial, just that you should be a little lighter on the expectations until there's a little more known about it. :lurk:

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Understand that 0-60 times and quarter mile times are not as important as trap speed which show how much power a car is making.

 

While I agree that trap speed is the true indicator of power being made (ET's speak more to traction & driver skill), I gotta say that I love beating Z06's to the finish line at our local drag strips (I run lower ET's than many of them), even though they are charging hard at the end of the track and going 10 mph faster than me through the traps. So, in that respect, ET's are still important if it means winning the race.

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Guys understand you are getting all bent out of shape over 0-60 times. So what? ....clipped... Understand that 0-60 times and quarter mile times are not as important as trap speed which show how much power a car is making.

Dan

 

 

 

I feel the exact opposite as this thought. Personally, I don't care what the dyno says or what the equasions work out to be in final RWHP or BHP numbers. The whole purpose of gaining horsepower is to translate it into a measurable performance and for my purposes, measurable performance are the numbers at the end of the 1/4 mile. I drag race, that's what I build my cars to do best so that's what I look to in order to gauge the success or failure of my work and effort. As far as I'm concerned, dyno numbers are good for nothing but keyboard racing and worthless smack talk. If you can't put the power to the ground or don't have the ability to control it as a driver, what good is it.

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I think that Ford did a great job overall but still makes the GT500's for the older less race track oriented guys. It would be nice if Ford did make the GT500 to kick the daylights out of these GM cars. The problem here is that the marketing is geared to toward an older buyer and the modular motors have not yet been built to use less gas like the new push rod motors that GM builds. So if Ford builds a car that can do it and get better gas mileage ...what will companies like Shelby do? These is always the chance that Ford won't focus on the SHELBY badged cars and the 5.4 becomes another ...who knows, a Mach 1 or something. If' this happens, the GT350 becomes the car that Shelby builds and maybe it becomes a well engineered car that does the butt kicking ......... It's always possible that Roush builds a better car ...after all they did engineer the 5.4 in the first place. Engineering is where it's at and it seems Roush and Steeda put a lot of time and money into engineering ...way more than other Mustang builders. Personally I think 1/4 mile racing is too boring but there is a short term fun factor in it. I think I'll stay with road course driving and see what I can do in concert with the car. I'd rather by on the track for 20 laps than do a run and wait a long time in a line again

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