Does the addition of a tuner & pulley void warranty ?

[texican]

-----------------------2010 GT500------------------------------

I am only in the (looking phase) of a tuner and pulley but wanted to know the disadvantages before doing so.

The details for the kit I'm looking for is listed below.

 

-Will it void my warranty?

-Do I have to replace the stock tune before bringing it in for service ?

-Does the dealership have any way of telling that I have switched the tune (even though I replaced it with the original? Is there a time stamp ?

-Would I have to replace the pulley with the original before bringing it in ?

 

Thanks in advance

Details below..

 

 

Lethal Performance 2010 GT500 Boost Upgrade Kit

You can expect to gain anywhere from 90-100rwhp with this package based on a 93 octane tune.

Since the 2010 GT500 comes already equipped with a high flow air intake system we felt it necessary to put a kit together specifically for those looking to get the power of a pulley and tune without needing to purchase another air intake system.

The Lethal Performance Supercharger Boost Kit includes a 2.60" Supercharger Pulley, Black Anodized Aux idler , NGK TR6 plugs and a custom tuned SCT X3.

You can expect big gains with the addition of this package.

Lethal Performance Supercharger Pulley - Our supercharger pulley kit includes a 2.60" pulley ring which is anodized for a long lasting protective finish. We also include a mounting hub made from high grade steel and zinc plated for extra protection. Lastly we include the necessary bolts and washers to properly install the ring to the hub.

Lethal Performance Aux Idler Kit- FEATURES:

CNC machined from 6061 T-6 Aluminum for Accuracy and Detail

"Hard Coat" Anodized Idler Pulley for superior belt wear protection and bearing bore hardness

Top Notch OEM Quality Sealed for life bearing

A must when using a smaller supercharger pulley on your Shelby

Allows for use of the stock belt when upgrading to a Smaller Supercharger Pulley

Works with 2.8 and 2.6 Supercharger Pulleys

Comes complete with easy to follow instructions and hardware

Fits perfect with no modification necessary

[mullens]

Will it void my warranty?

Depends on the dealer, but the short answer is YES.

 

-Do I have to replace the stock tune before bringing it in ?

Depends on the service you're bringing it in for. I wouldn't bring it back to stock for a power window motor. If your dealer is going to do a reflash for anything then yes, bring it back to stock. Flashing over your tune would force you to send your programmer back to the vendor to unlock it.

 

-Does the dealership have any way of telling that I have switched the tune (even though I replaced it with the original? Is there a time stamp ?

NO

 

-Would I have to replace the pulley with the original before bringing it in ?

Once again, it depends on the dealer. My service guy is mod friendly, and always completed warranty work with a TVS staring him in the face. Others are not so friendly.

[rhlgt500]

Will it void my warranty?

Depends on the dealer, but the short answer is YES.

 

 

The answer is no.

 

Ford cannot void your warranty due to installation of an aftermarket part. If a car manufacture can show your modification caused the problem leading directly to the warranty claim they don't have to cover the cost of that repair. Your warranty will still be in place however. For the specific example of a pully mod. If the extra boost and a poor tune leads to damaged heads or engine block, you get to pay for the fix. However the vehicle warranty is not voided and you can still make warranty claims in the future. Whether or not they are honored will depend on the claim and its relationship to any mods. If it is for something like a bad power window switch, obviously unrelated to to a pully mod, Ford will have to cover the fix.

 

Magnuson-Moss and car warranties

 

Of course, of all the simple mods you could make, a pully mod/tune is probably one or the more problematic to argue against as a root cause for almost any engine or driveline problems you might have in the future.

 

I've been told by many service guys now that the easiest way to get on their bad side is to not tell them about a aftermarket tune. Most are more than willing to help fix a problem and it really is ultimately Ford's issue, not theirs as far as whether or not it is covered as a warranty fix or not. They aren't going to be on your side if they just wasted hours figuring out that a tune was screwing up their diagnotics. Since they don't know what is in any tune, they generally much prefer working on a stock vehicle.

 

IMHO, once you start modding you shouldn't walk into the dealer and plead stupidity. You really should understand the implications of your mods, let the dealer know what you have done to your car, and own up to the consequences when your mod is the likely cause of a problem. If everyone did, the whole dealer vs modded car owner situation would be less confrontational .

[davegt500]

The answer is no.

 

Ford cannot void your warranty due to installation of an aftermarket part. If a car manufacture can show your modification caused the problem leading directly to the warranty claim they don't have to cover the cost of that repair. Your warranty will still be in place however. For the specific example of a pully mod. If the extra boost and a poor tune leads to damaged heads or engine block, you get to pay for the fix. However the vehicle warranty is not voided and you can still make warranty claims in the future. Whether or not they are honored will depend on the claim and its relationship to any mods. If it is for something like a bad power window switch, obviously unrelated to to a pully mod, Ford will have to cover the fix.

 

Magnuson-Moss and car warranties

 

Of course, of all the simple mods you could make, a pully mod/tune is probably one or the more problematic to argue against as a root cause for almost any engine or driveline problems you might have in the future.

 

I've been told by many service guys now that the easiest way to get on their bad side is to not tell them about a aftermarket tune. Most are more than willing to help fix a problem and it really is ultimately Ford's issue, not theirs as far as whether or not it is covered as a warranty fix or not. They aren't going to be on your side if they just wasted hours figuring out that a tune was screwing up their diagnotics. Since they don't know what is in any tune, they generally much prefer working on a stock vehicle.

 

IMHO, once you start modding you shouldn't walk into the dealer and plead stupidity. You really should understand the implications of your mods, let the dealer know what you have done to your car, and own up to the consequences when your mod is the likely cause of a problem. If everyone did, the whole dealer vs modded car owner situation would be less confrontational .

 

The way to end all these problems with aftermarket parts and tunes is for Ford to approve them for inclusion in FRPP. That way a KB 3.6 on a 5.0 "stang" is good to go warranty-wise. Or on a Shelby for that matter.

[JWG223]

Yes, it does. FRPP has told me it will void the warranty to tune the vehicle with anything other than an FRPP kit. If you buy the plug-play setup from FRPP, you will revert to a 12/12 FRPP warranty on the FRPP parts, and perhapse the engine, not sure on that last. However, 12/12 is the best you can hope for then.

 

Yes, an manufacturer can void your warranty. GM does it all the time. If they can LEGALLY do it, so can Ford.

 

Obviously they will not void warranty on your speakers because you tuned the car, but they will void the driveline in total or part, if they feel like it. A car is a system, and a logical (if not accurate) argument can be made that a tune blew the rear end because of the extra power. Well it can take it from the FRPP kit, so why not MY setup, you say? Well, it wasn't the FRPP kit, was it? Case closed.

 

Will they? That's up to corporate, usually, when it involves something big (Trans/Engine, etc.). However, they most certainly can.

 

Warranties are getting more and more tough to hold a company to. Stay stock, or be prepared for the possibility that you will pay for more than just mods in the long run.

[sprint200]

First off, take a look at the reported rwhp gains from people posting actual before and after dyno runs. 100rwhp might be a bit optimistic.

 

Now, if you are that worried about warranty (it's your daily driver, can't afford repair costs, can't live without this car for extended periods) then leave it alone and be happy.

 

That said, these engines are damned near bullit proof. If you double check the A/F and keep the RPM's below 6500, you can't do much to hurt them! I've run this combo for over 3 years (up to redline constantly) in Open Track conditions in temp's up to and over 100 degrees; over 30 track days and counting.

 

But upgrade your cooling system first, or you lose most of that HP to the computer after one hard run.............

[rhlgt500]

Yes, it does. FRPP has told me it will void the warranty to tune the vehicle with anything other than an FRPP kit. If you buy the plug-play setup from FRPP, you will revert to a 12/12 FRPP warranty on the FRPP parts, and perhapse the engine, not sure on that last. However, 12/12 is the best you can hope for then.

 

 

All I was trying to say, perhaps poorly, was that Ford can't get out of its warranty coverage liability due to installation of an aftermarket part that is unrelated to the warranty claim. Otherwise they, Honda or GM, would be voiding engine warranties left and right due to the use billet coolent reservior caps or use of a non-Ford wax at you cars last wash.

 

Ford basically treats its Ford Racing Products like any other aftermarket part except in some cases where a dealer installs a "pack". Then the treatment is much better.

 

Ford Racing Limited Warranty 2010

 

 

Warranty Coverage for Select Ford Racing Performance Parts:

Super Packs (2005-2009 MY: M-6066-M463V, M-6066-M463P, M-6066-M463V7, M-6066-

M463P7, M-6066-M463V8, M-6066-M463P8, M-6066-SGT; 2010 MY: M-6066-MGT400C, M-

6066-MGT400PC, M-6066-MSVTA) are warranted for factory-supplied material or

workmanship beginning upon dealer installation and registration of the Ford Racing Super

Pack with Ford Racing and ends at either 12 months/12,000 miles (whichever occurs first).

Installation must occur prior to the vehicle reaching either 36 months/36,000 miles (whichever

occurs first) from the beginning of the manufacturer's New Vehicle Limited Warranty. This

Limited Warranty replaces the existing manufacture's New Vehicle Limited Warranty for

engine, driveline and suspension parts when a concern is triggered by a warranted Ford

Racing Super Pack. All engine, driveline and suspension warranty issues not related to

installation of Ford Racing Super Pack remain subject to existing manufacturer's New Vehicle

Limited Warranty.

 

For supercharger packs Ford warranties their parts and covers directly related failures for a year, assuming the car is under its 36/36 coverage. In other words they don't want adding a supercharger to an older Mustang to effectively be buying an additional year of warranty coverage. They modify, not void, the new vehicle warranty saying that they will cover failures related to to the installation. This is more than I claimed in my post for aftermarket part related failures - as I say aftermarket part related failures aren't covered. I think think that it is perfecty reasonable for a vehicle manufacture to not cover mod related failures as there are sorts of idiots who will try to run 50psi of boost.

 

They then go on to explicitly state non-related problems are still covered for the engine and drivetrain.

 

Interesting fine print is that this is for the 2010 660 HP kit warranty. The 750 HP comes with no warranty so you are on your own for any failures related to the install and the parts aren't covered at all. There goes any incentive for me having the dealer do the install. It is also worse than many aftermarket kits which usually have some sort of warranty on the parts in the kit.

 

Like I said in my first post, I suspect it would be very hard to get warranty coverage after a tune/pull installation if something went wrong with the engine/drivetrain. It just wouldn't be that hard for Ford to find something not to "spec" in the tune and say it caused the failure. I also suspect legal precedent for software changes isn't nearly as well established as bolt on hardware changes. I'd hate to be the first one to fight Ford on whether or not simply removing the 155 speed govenor voids the entire engine warranty because it is a new "tune" let alone a air/fuel ratio related change.

 

Do people get screwed on warranty coverage by Ford and GM. I'm sure it happens all the time. Ford and GM know most people aren't going to go to the FTC or get a lawyer and take on a legal battle with one of the largest corporations in the the country. They also know that in most contested situations they will be considered the technical experts on what type of failure an aftermarket part install could have caused.

 

I also suspect that in many of the cases you read about on boards where warranty coverage is denied, it is well deserved. There are 1000s of idiots out there doing really stupid things to cars...

[jsarkis]

The main thing you have to worry about is the clutch warranty, which depending on dealer & mileage they may or may not void your warranty.

[Torched10]

The main thing you have to worry about is the clutch warranty, which depending on dealer & mileage they may or may not void your warranty.

 

see bpmurrs saga on his clutch going out and Ford, not the dealer, voiding the warranty.I would think that with everything moving at higher RPMs, anything thats spinning quciker,like the AC etc, would likely be not under warranty.These claims go to SVT,and its not the dealers option, since the claim is paid for by Ford,not the delaer--bob

[bpmurr]

see bpmurrs saga on his clutch going out and Ford, not the dealer, voiding the warranty.I would think that with everything moving at higher RPMs, anything thats spinning quciker,like the AC etc, would likely be not under warranty.These claims go to SVT,and its not the dealers option, since the claim is paid for by Ford,not the delaer--bob

 

 

Exactly!

 

I realize some people have had their dealer slip them under the Ford radar. However, they are getting very serious about mods now and it's becoming much harder. Almost impossible for small dealers like I bought mine from. If you plan on doing any think about the VMP pulley and idler. At least it looks stock and doesn't stick out like a sore thumb.

[mullens]

The answer is no.

 

Ford cannot void your warranty due to installation of an aftermarket part. If a car manufacture can show your modification caused the problem leading directly to the warranty claim they don't have to cover the cost of that repair. Your warranty will still be in place however. For the specific example of a pully mod. If the extra boost and a poor tune leads to damaged heads or engine block, you get to pay for the fix. However the vehicle warranty is not voided and you can still make warranty claims in the future. Whether or not they are honored will depend on the claim and its relationship to any mods. If it is for something like a bad power window switch, obviously unrelated to to a pully mod, Ford will have to cover the fix.

 

Magnuson-Moss and car warranties

 

Of course, of all the simple mods you could make, a pully mod/tune is probably one or the more problematic to argue against as a root cause for almost any engine or driveline problems you might have in the future.

 

I've been told by many service guys now that the easiest way to get on their bad side is to not tell them about a aftermarket tune. Most are more than willing to help fix a problem and it really is ultimately Ford's issue, not theirs as far as whether or not it is covered as a warranty fix or not. They aren't going to be on your side if they just wasted hours figuring out that a tune was screwing up their diagnotics. Since they don't know what is in any tune, they generally much prefer working on a stock vehicle.

 

IMHO, once you start modding you shouldn't walk into the dealer and plead stupidity. You really should understand the implications of your mods, let the dealer know what you have done to your car, and own up to the consequences when your mod is the likely cause of a problem. If everyone did, the whole dealer vs modded car owner situation would be less confrontational .

 

I will chime in withe the others...all the MM Act says is that thefailure has to be connected to the mod. It's pretty darn easy (sorry bpmmr) for Ford to connect ANY drivetrain failure to the modification. Even if you know the mod didn't cause the failure, try fighting it out in court with Ford and their endless stream of high-priced lawyers. You'll never win that one.

[theseeker]

This depends upon your dealer and the way they interact with Ford. My original dealer would never work with me. However, I have a found a dealer that will.

Do your homework.

[Torched10]

This depends upon your dealer and the way they interact with Ford. My original dealer would never work with me. However, I have a found a dealer that will.

Do your homework.

 

Just curious,what warranty item did you have fixed by your new dealer that might have been marginal at your first dealer

[Cdvision]

-Does the dealership have any way of telling that I have switched the tune (even though I replaced it with the original? Is there a time stamp ?

NO

 

Be careful with that one, I had a basic interface connected from my 2006 GT's data port to my laptop and the interface program could tell you all kinds of things like fuel pressure, fan speed etc. It also read out the date that the ecm was last accessed (the same date I loaded in my Whipple tune). So I'm sure the dealer can get the same info. It might not tell them what was done but it will tell them the cars computer was accessed.

[theseeker]

Just curious,what warranty item did you have fixed by your new dealer that might have been marginal at your first dealer

 

 

Sorry for the confusion but I was referring to tuning, pulley change and other mods.

[2010KonaBlueGT]

Be careful with that one, I had a basic interface connected from my 2006 GT's data port to my laptop and the interface program could tell you all kinds of things like fuel pressure, fan speed etc. It also read out the date that the ecm was last accessed (the same date I loaded in my Whipple tune). So I'm sure the dealer can get the same info. It might not tell them what was done but it will tell them the cars computer was accessed.

 

 

I know that with the General Motors (GM) Digi-tech it can tell you what was accessed, when it was accessed, what was changed, when it was changed, etc. etc. etc.

 

It's a snitch, big time.

 

I'm not familiar with the Ford counterpart to the GM Digi-tech but I assume it can do at *least* the same thing. Ford is heads above GM when it comes to it's Electronic Engine Control (EEC) computers/PCM's (baud rate, storage capacity, etc.).

 

 

Phill

[mullens]

I know that with the General Motors (GM) Digi-tech it can tell you what was accessed, when it was accessed, what was changed, when it was changed, etc. etc. etc.

 

It's a snitch, big time.

 

I'm not familiar with the Ford counterpart to the GM Digi-tech but I assume it can do at *least* the same thing. Ford is heads above GM when it comes to it's Electronic Engine Control (EEC) computers/PCM's (baud rate, storage capacity, etc.).

 

 

Phill

Ford was looking at doing that with the new Powerstrokes because so many guys were blowing them up. (It was rumored on the diesel forums..don't know if they actually did it.) To my knowledge they haven't put a "snitch" component in the gas motors yet.

[bigZ]

-----------------------2010 GT500------------------------------

I am only in the (looking phase) of a tuner and pulley but wanted to know the disadvantages before doing so.

The details for the kit I'm looking for is listed below.

 

-Will it void my warranty?

-Do I have to replace the stock tune before bringing it in for service ?

-Does the dealership have any way of telling that I have switched the tune (even though I replaced it with the original? Is there a time stamp ?

-Would I have to replace the pulley with the original before bringing it in ?

 

Thanks in advance

Details below..

 

 

Lethal Performance 2010 GT500 Boost Upgrade Kit

You can expect to gain anywhere from 90-100rwhp with this package based on a 93 octane tune.

Since the 2010 GT500 comes already equipped with a high flow air intake system we felt it necessary to put a kit together specifically for those looking to get the power of a pulley and tune without needing to purchase another air intake system.

The Lethal Performance Supercharger Boost Kit includes a 2.60" Supercharger Pulley, Black Anodized Aux idler , NGK TR6 plugs and a custom tuned SCT X3.

You can expect big gains with the addition of this package.

Lethal Performance Supercharger Pulley - Our supercharger pulley kit includes a 2.60" pulley ring which is anodized for a long lasting protective finish. We also include a mounting hub made from high grade steel and zinc plated for extra protection. Lastly we include the necessary bolts and washers to properly install the ring to the hub.

Lethal Performance Aux Idler Kit- FEATURES:

CNC machined from 6061 T-6 Aluminum for Accuracy and Detail

"Hard Coat" Anodized Idler Pulley for superior belt wear protection and bearing bore hardness

Top Notch OEM Quality Sealed for life bearing

A must when using a smaller supercharger pulley on your Shelby

Allows for use of the stock belt when upgrading to a Smaller Supercharger Pulley

Works with 2.8 and 2.6 Supercharger Pulleys

Comes complete with easy to follow instructions and hardware

Fits perfect with no modification necessary

 

 

Autograf has a 600 and 650hp mod package with a 3 yr warranty

[DaFreak]

This begs for other questions too. If last access and or modified date is stored then can be programmed with the tune/change? Where do these dates come from? I don't remember setting the date/time when I disconnect the battery so it seems the dates should come from the programmer????

 

Your thoughts?

 

DaFreak

[Madlock]

Autograf has a 600 and 650hp mod package with a 3 yr warranty

 

 

 

But is the warranty provided through the maker of the mod package, or is it something that Ford honors as part of the original warranty?

 

I too have thought about non-invasive (i.e. pulley, tuning, and other engine-external mods), but still can't get clear line of sight into coverage. Perhaps Ford deliberately uses that opacity to its benefit?

[2010KonaBlueGT]

This begs for other questions too. If last access and or modified date is stored then can be programmed with the tune/change? Where do these dates come from? I don't remember setting the date/time when I disconnect the battery so it seems the dates should come from the programmer????

 

Your thoughts?

 

DaFreak

 

If the ROM was flashed during initial set-up, you would never see it.

 

My *assumption* is that kind of information would either be stored in ROM or PROM. If it was stored in a EPROM or EEPROM, it could be erased (and therefore fooled).

 

 

Phill

[Reapyr]

Idk if Ford has stepped their scanning up, but I do know in the GM world when I had my 07 vette dealers where able to check the previous 10 hits on the ecm. I got nailed with the attempt of them voiding the warranty but the vette tech like the car and some how smoothed it over with the service manager to cover the littler stuff.

 

When I bought my '11 from the local Ford dealer, the dealership itself has a built in performance shop. Was told by the Gen. Manager and the Perf Shop manager, that any work they do in house will still be covered under stock warranty no questions asked. Maybe look into your dealer to do some boltons and use the tuner to program? When looking at my car they had a 2010 GT with a Ford whipple, dropped on coilovers, bigger/wider wheels, appearance addons. Supposedly all done in house, and it looked clean as hell...but the new shelby with svtpp option was only 7k more...it was obvious what route I was going.

[Madlock]

When I bought my '11 from the local Ford dealer, the dealership itself has a built in performance shop. Was told by the Gen. Manager and the Perf Shop manager, that any work they do in house will still be covered under stock warranty no questions asked. Maybe look into your dealer to do some boltons and use the tuner to program? When looking at my car they had a 2010 GT with a Ford whipple, dropped on coilovers, bigger/wider wheels, appearance addons. Supposedly all done in house, and it looked clean as hell...but the new shelby with svtpp option was only 7k more...it was obvious what route I was going.

 

 

I'd be really interested in knowing whether the warranty would be honored by Ford - or whether it's the dealer who's willing to underwrite the warranty itself after performing a pulley swap and retuning as part of its racing/performance shop business. The key would be whether or not the modded vehicle could be serviced under warranty (for matters related to the powertrain) at any other F/L dealer, or whether the powertrain warranty basically becomes limited to that one dealer.

[Whammer]

This begs for other questions too. If last access and or modified date is stored then can be programmed with the tune/change? Where do these dates come from? I don't remember setting the date/time when I disconnect the battery so it seems the dates should come from the programmer????

 

Your thoughts?

 

DaFreak

 

 

Not sure about the date/time stamp but my SVT mechanic told me the pcm records the number of times it's been flashed. So if you've flashed it 4 times and the SVT service dept. has no records of the car having been flashed then I think they'll know you've been doing it. Does flashing the pcm mean you're warranty is voided? Well Ford would have to know what was done with that flash, they would need some proof of what was done, at least I think they would.

[bpmurr]

The bottomline is this. Anything outside of one of the Ford Racing approved mods installed by the dealer is going to void your warranty. I hope it's the one thing people have learned from my situation regarding the clutch. Sure you might find some dealers that will skirt the system but it's not a given. Of all the 2010-2011 clutches that have failed that I know of I'm the only one that didn't get a free replacement from Ford under warranty because of my mods and the trip to the track.