Anyone modify their current engine to Forged Internals?????

[William Rodgers]

Like the topic says has anyone modified their original engine to forged internals? I am curious if it is worth doing. If I did this and replaced the stock clutch could I turn up the boost a little or would other modifications be needed? The Roush came with forged internals recently, I was thinking it may be a good investment especially if it allows me to turn the boost up a little.

 

Any idea of the cost if you have done this??

 

I am curious to hear about the options, if any, available.

 

Thank you

[kahmann]

There are several of us here with forged internals in 3V engine blocks.

The cost of the parts ranges from $1500-$5000, depending on how nice of stuff you go with. Uninstalling the engine, tearing it down, machining, balancing, assembly, and reinstall is difficult to predict. Whatever you do, don't use MMR. Go anywhere but there.

 

The biggest problem is not dumping thousands more into other performance parts, while you have your engine out of the car. Heads, cams, exhaust, etc all become very tempting once the engine is torn to pieces. Ask me how I know!

[springer]

Nut, how fast do you wanna go?

[GT500-07]

There are several of us here with forged internals in 3V engine blocks.

The cost of the parts ranges from $1500-$5000, depending on how nice of stuff you go with. Uninstalling the engine, tearing it down, machining, balancing, assembly, and reinstall is difficult to predict. Whatever you do, don't use MMR. Go anywhere but there.

 

The biggest problem is not dumping thousands more into other performance parts, while you have your engine out of the car. Heads, cams, exhaust, etc all become very tempting once the engine is torn to pieces. Ask me how I know!

 

 

+1, been there done that

[GT500-07]

Like the topic says has anyone modified their original engine to forged internals? I am curious if it is worth doing. If I did this and replaced the stock clutch could I turn up the boost a little or would other modifications be needed? The Roush came with forged internals recently, I was thinking it may be a good investment especially if it allows me to turn the boost up a little.

 

Any idea of the cost if you have done this??

 

I am curious to hear about the options, if any, available.

 

Thank you

 

 

how much HP are you looking for? after what I went thru on the SGT, I'm going with FR products this time. You can build one a little cheaper yourself, but FR has the new Aluminator SB that is a great buy for $3200 shipped.

[GT500-07]

here's the link to the new FR Aluminator,

 

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=12039

[speedyburd33]

what exactly does forged internals do for you? I have read on here a lot of people talking about it and haven't really grasped the whole concept of it. I would like someone to explain this to me so I don't feel so much in the dark...

[andrewnagle1964]

here's the link to the new FR Aluminator,

 

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=12039

 

 

+1

 

With the Whipple 10 rib belt drive

 

Andrew

[AstroDan]

what exactly does forged internals do for you? I have read on here a lot of people talking about it and haven't really grasped the whole concept of it. I would like someone to explain this to me so I don't feel so much in the dark...

 

 

With modifications that put your brake HP up over 500, (I'm there, at the wheels!) you are past the point of recommended (safe) power on the stock connecting rods, pistons and, to a leser degree, crankshaft. When the internals are forged you are able to create more power and the internals are no longer the weak-link.

Of course, now something else becomes the weakest link, like clutch, tranny, rear end etc...

I think the bottom line is:

How much power do you want, and how much money do you want to spend.

 

In my case 1) A lot! and 2) As little as needed!

 

I'm convinced that that FR Aluminator SB is the way to go, and I will do it after a work porject (Liquid cash) next spring! :happy feet:

[shelbydream1]

With modifications that put your brake HP up over 500, (I'm there, at the wheels!) you are past the point of recommended (safe) power on the stock connecting rods, pistons and, to a leser degree, crankshaft. When the internals are forged you are able to create more power and the internals are no longer the weak-link.

Of course, now something else becomes the weakest link, like clutch, tranny, rear end etc...

I think the bottom line is:

How much power do you want, and how much money do you want to spend.

 

In my case 1) A lot! and 2) As little as needed!

 

I'm convinced that that FR Aluminator SB is the way to go, and I will do it after a work porject (Liquid cash) next spring! :happy feet:

 

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, the 4.6L block as it sits now is good up to 500hp at the crank, correct?

[AstroDan]

Correct me if I'm wrong, the 4.6L block as it sits now is good up to 500hp at the crank, correct?

 

 

That is also my understanding. At 500WHP, what is at the crank? Has to be 560+...

[speedyburd33]

That is also my understanding. At 500WHP, what is at the crank? Has to be 560+...

 

 

 

Assuming 15% loss through the drivetrain, it would be just less than 600 at the crank. (600 X .15 = 90) = 510 RWHP

 

BTW, thanks for the info. I can easily see that you could get into major $$$ once you get going on the motor like that.

[William Rodgers]

Thanks for all of the replies. The power I currently have is great (I would not mind a little more), I was just thinking it would make it that much more reliable and have better piece of mind. I may just wait and do the Aluminator when I am ready.

 

I guess what I meant to ask is whether it is worth going forged with what I have or wait to see if something happens and then upgrade?

 

I am eyeing that 10 Rib whipple, I wonder what that would run installed, it does not seem like it would be a big job, but I could be wrong.

[GT500-07]

That is also my understanding. At 500WHP, what is at the crank? Has to be 560+...

 

 

more like 575hp-585hp at the crank

[AstroDan]

Thanks for all of the replies. The power I currently have is great (I would not mind a little more), I was just thinking it would make it that much more reliable and have better piece of mind. I may just wait and do the Aluminator when I am ready.

 

I guess what I meant to ask is whether it is worth going forged with what I have or wait to see if something happens and then upgrade?

 

I am eyeing that 10 Rib whipple, I wonder what that would run installed, it does not seem like it would be a big job, but I could be wrong.

 

 

You're right in the same boat as me, it looks like. Unless you keep your foot out of it, the potential for catastrophic is there now.

 

more like 575hp-585hp at the crank

 

 

 

If the stock number of 319 BHP is true;

I pulled 281WHP stock = 88% ~ 12% loss

 

At ~ 507 WHP figure 12% you get 576WHP...good call.

 

Carnut, you're basically the same, figure 565-575BHP...

[ShelbyGT/SC]

Bill, back to your original question, as Ken mentioned, you can get a kit in the $1500+ range and replace the parts yourself. Also, I know we chatted about this a few months ago at Tasca, but I am saying this for others mostly:

 

I can recall back in early 2007 we were all talking about concerns of the lack of forged internals in our cars with added HP from superchargers. Most of us then knew we were on borrowed time. Back then, the numbers being tossed around were around 480 HP at the engine if I recall so we were really nervous. Since then, many people have installed superchargers, turbo chargers and other to get more HP and most haven't had issues. But as mentioned, it is always in the back of your mind that something can happen. As you know, I blew my engine last November. Prior to that, I was doing over 150 MPH on the highway from LA to the ghost town and then ran on the track and drag at the Vegas Speedway during the 85th Birthday Bash. Last year I did SCCA autocross (cones) and a few other club racing events. During all of this, I was always concerned that my engine could blow. And, perhaps all the "racing" may have weakened or strained the engine internals. But, I completely feel it blew from the fuel additives they add for the winter months here up north. When it blew, I heard some knocking but wasn't paying attention until the moment it blew, then I knew instantly that I should have obviously let up on the gas. Had I not had that fuel in my car with the additives, I definitely feel the engine wouldn't have blown, but I still would have been concerned it could.

 

As you know, I am getting the Aluminator with Paul. Obviously this is allowing me to drive the car again, but more importantly, I will have peace of mind.

 

I would encourage anyone on the fence to somehow get some forged internals (and upgrade brakes) if running 500+ HP on the stock 4.6 3V engine - before it's too late. It's one of those "pay me now or pay me later" things. Now my original block that came with the Shelby will make a nice table (but at least it will have a good story) LOL.

[COBRA SCOTTY]

IF YOUR GOING TO BUILD A MOTOR THE " ALUMINATOR IS THE BEST AND CHEAPEST WAY TO

 

GO. WHEN I BUILD MY ALUMINATOR I WILL PULL THE STOCK MOTOR AND STORE IT ON A STAND.

 

 

SCOTTY

[blueone]

You're right in the same boat as me, it looks like. Unless you keep your foot out of it, the potential for catastrophic is there now.

 

 

The potential for catastrophic failure is always there, if you push things a little to far built or not. The metal in my oil is proof of that, the motor is comming apart today to access the damage, looks like berings. There are always limits, looks like I found that out the hard way.

[ShelbyGT/SC]

Hey guys, I jut thought I'd add some pics to my thread #16 above. Here is all the reason in the world to get forged internals. Enough Said!!! LOL

 

I'll post more pics when I can get them of the other side of the block where it is cracked/broken and underneath the engine block where the connecting rod is broken.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here the link to more pics as I continue to take them and post on this Photobucket page:

 

http://s221.photobucket.com/albums/dd174/aodwyer/Tasca%20Shelby%20GT%20TR%20July%202010/

[AstroDan]

You're right in the same boat as me, it looks like. Unless you keep your foot out of it, the potential for catastrophic is there now.

 

 

The potential for catastrophic failure is always there, if you push things a little to far built or not. The metal in my oil is proof of that, the motor is comming apart today to access the damage, looks like berings. There are always limits, looks like I found that out the hard way.

 

 

Wow!

Sorry to hear that. Even built internals, 21# boost would be risky.

I'm thinking more around 15#.

[GT500-07]

You're right in the same boat as me, it looks like. Unless you keep your foot out of it, the potential for catastrophic is there now.

 

 

The potential for catastrophic failure is always there, if you push things a little to far built or not. The metal in my oil is proof of that, the motor is comming apart today to access the damage, looks like berings. There are always limits, looks like I found that out the hard way.

 

 

Jeff, am I reading this right. You have metal shavings in your motor?

[blueone]

ame='blueone' date='30 July 2010 - 04:37 AM' timestamp='1280479027' post='1010245']

 

 

Jeff, am I reading this right. You have metal shavings in your motor?

 

 

Yeah, what looks like very fine aluminum shavings in the oil, it might be just a bearing or two, if not I've been looking for an excuse to build that big bore TT I got a qoute on a while back.

I will go into more detail once all the facts are in but I do know that MV stands behind their work and it will be taken care of in a fair and upright fashion, my hands might not be completely clean in this situation. By the way I have been watching yours and Adam's builds closely with a certian amount of envy. Hope it all turns out well.

.

[GT500-07]

Yeah, what looks like very fine aluminum shavings in the oil, it might be just a bearing or two, if not I've been looking for an excuse to build that big bore TT I got a qoute on a while back.

I will go into more detail once all the facts are in but I do know that MV stands behind their work and it will be taken care of in a fair and upright fashion, my hands might not be completely clean in this situation. By the way I have been watching yours and Adam's builds closely with a certian amount of envy. Hope it all turns out well.

.

 

 

real sorry to hear this. I hope the FR turns out better then the last one. I was real close on doing a RGR 322 with a TT saving up for the FFR 33 project.

[blueone]

ame='blueone' date='30 July 2010 - 04:37 AM' timestamp='1280479027' post='1010245']

 

 

Jeff, am I reading this right. You have metal shavings in your motor?

 

 

Spun 1 rod bearing, Heads and block are good, going back with a set of billet rods,bearings,new crank and rings.

[TurboShelbyGT]

I own a dyno, it's an AWD Mustang Dyno. It can also, of course, dyno 2wd and motorcycles. Dynojets read HIGH numbers, it's a fact.

 

So let me just add a little input.

 

My stock 2008 SGT was rated at the flywheel like the rest of you, at 319 whp. On my dyno the car put down 237 whp. This is about a 25% loss from the factory rating. So let's just use that, regardless of opinions to figure out the rest of this.

 

I added the Whipple 550 HO kit to my car, which consist of the cold air kit, fuel pumps, injectors, spark plugs and the supercharger. Back on the dyno the car put down 397 whp. This is about a 68% increase in power. Based on that the new flywheel HP should be 535, which is close to what Whipple advertises the kit at, thus the "550" kit.

 

I the built (and now produce) offroad pipes to fit up to the factory Ford Racing X pipes all our cars are equipped with and ported the stock exhaust manifolds and ceramic coated them. After this the car put down 426 whp. This is now an 80% increase in power from the base 237 whp runs. Bringing the flywheel horsepower up to 574 horsepower.

 

I'd like to think since the Whipple 550 is the same kit Ford puts their stamp on that someone along the way thinks that level of power is "safe". I've exceeded the safe factor and understand that.

 

I drive my car very little. When I do I drive it HARD. I ran it at the strip a few times last year, best time was a 12.003 at 120.66 mph. The MPH shows it was making great power, now with the extra 30 whp I'd guess it will run closer to 124 mph.

 

I hope like hell I don't lose the engine, I just hate to lose the stock block! I wish just dropping in pistons/rods were the solution but the crank really needs upgraded too while doing it, which makes the job tougher.

 

Does the aluminator drop directly in and how much power is that shortblock actually good for, anyone know?

 

Right now rather than keep pushing my car, which is pristine with 1200 miles on it, I'm thinking of ordering a new GT 5 liter and going nuts on it