Jump to content
TEAM SHELBY FORUM

Traction Test-Experiment


Recommended Posts

I got up very early this morning in order to conduct an experiment. I wanted to "try" to learn the limits of the 11 500 with TC-on, TC-sp and TC-off. Well, I almost pissed in my pants, this is not a Ferrari or a Porsche T and I am glad that it is not.

 

I made 12 runs on the same three lane feeder with little or no traffic and the experience left me shaking for about thirty minutes.

 

1. First run TC-on: 1st-2nd drop at about 2500 and a very nice hook-up, 2-3 at about 5500 and sheer pleasure! 100 mph close to 9 seconds according to my wife

2. Second with TC-sm: 1st-2nd drop around 5500-my wife said SH*t! The tail went wild, however, 3rd was pure delight!

3. Third with TC-off, 1st-2nd.........not good no one was injured! I need a wider track!! Bloomberg would not approve of this car, as it smokes.....

 

Final thoughts, this car is a True Muscle Car! It should be handled with care and I am still in awe and figuring it out. However, I love it from bow to stern.

 

theseeker.......R

 

Have a safe, healthy and fun 4th!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is a 1st-2nd drop at 2500? Do you mean you short-shifted 1st gear at 2500 and it still spun!? I am thinking I am not familiar with your terminology.

 

How is TC in this car? Does it kill you, or is it almost as good as a rolling "launch-control" (aka- mud/snow mode for any GT-R owners)?

 

How does it pull when it breaks loose? I had an H/C/I-E 5.0 with a TKO500 and 4.10's and it would spin all day long, but always in a straight line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is a 1st-2nd drop at 2500? Do you mean you short-shifted 1st gear at 2500 and it still spun!? I am thinking I am not familiar with your terminology.

 

How is TC in this car? Does it kill you, or is it almost as good as a rolling "launch-control" (aka- mud/snow mode for any GT-R owners)?

 

How does it pull when it breaks loose? I had an H/C/I-E 5.0 with a TKO500 and 4.10's and it would spin all day long, but always in a straight line.

 

 

 

I'm also confused by the "1st-2nd drop 2500" terminology.... :headscratch:

 

 

I will try to answer both of your questions as best I can.

 

The 1st-2nd drop means that I dropped the clutch and hammerd the gas at 2500 rpm between 1st and second gear. There was little spin at all. However, 2-3rd was around 5500 rpm and it was outstanding!

 

Sorry about my terminology, but I was taught in Europe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will try to answer both of your questions as best I can.

 

The 1st-2nd drop means that I dropped the clutch and hammerd the gas at 2500 rpm between 1st and second gear. There was little spin at all. However, 2-3rd was around 5500 rpm and it was outstanding!

 

Sorry about my terminology, but I was taught in Europe.

 

 

So you were stopped and you dropped the clutch at 2500rpm with the car in 2nd gear?

 

I really am just not getting it I don't think. Sorry to be slow.

 

I am just unable to understand "hammering the gas" at "2500rpm" "between 1st and 2nd gear" when all put togather. IT sounds like you are saying you shifted out of first, blipped the throttle to 2500, and dropped the clutch after shifting into 2nd, which is basically a rev-matched up-shift after letting RPM's drop. I know this isn't what happened, but thats what it sounds like to ME. Definite language/term barrier and I would like to understand what occured. *frustrated with miscommunication*

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, I think that what he's trying to convey is that he launched the car in 1st, by dropping the clutch at 2500 RPM's. Where he shifted from 1st to 2nd isn't addressed, but when he shifted from 2nd to 3rd, he was at 5500 RPM's and it felt good with no or little spin. The problem is in the phrase "between gears." The only thing between gears is Nuetral.... :confused:

 

Now if I was describing that to someone with typed word in normal "racer lingo" that I'm used to reading or hearing it would have sounded like this:

 

My launch was at 2500 with a drop (as apposed to a slip or controlled release) and it spun through the 1-2 shift, but when I made the 2-3 at about 5500 it hooked and felt strong. :salute:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, I think that what he's trying to convey is that he launched the car in 1st, by dropping the clutch at 2500 RPM's. Where he shifted from 1st to 2nd isn't addressed, but when he shifted from 2nd to 3rd, he was at 5500 RPM's and it felt good with no or little spin. The problem is in the phrase "between gears." The only thing between gears is Nuetral.... :confused:

 

Now if I was describing that to someone with typed word in normal "racer lingo" that I'm used to reading or hearing it would have sounded like this:

 

My launch was at 2500 with a drop (as apposed to a slip or controlled release) and it spun through the 1-2 shift, but when I made the 2-3 at about 5500 it hooked and felt strong. :salute:

 

 

Thanks! I was not trying to be an arse, I just didn't get it. That makes more sense.

 

What I am having trouble with is his 3rd test. He implies that on the 1-2 shift the car went completely crazy and was useless (from a racing/performance standpoint) on the 1-2 shift. Meaning, this car, on the street, in stock form--sucks, if you plan on any kind of performance driving. A 1-2 shift in a stock car should produce at most a few feet of spin, imho. Anything more points to a design flaw where the motor and suspension were designed in a vacuum from each other with no thought of their interaction in the real world. I hope I misunderstood the 3rd test.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, I think that what he's trying to convey is that he launched the car in 1st, by dropping the clutch at 2500 RPM's. Where he shifted from 1st to 2nd isn't addressed, but when he shifted from 2nd to 3rd, he was at 5500 RPM's and it felt good with no or little spin. The problem is in the phrase "between gears." The only thing between gears is Nuetral.... :confused:

 

Now if I was describing that to someone with typed word in normal "racer lingo" that I'm used to reading or hearing it would have sounded like this:

 

My launch was at 2500 with a drop (as apposed to a slip or controlled release) and it spun through the 1-2 shift, but when I made the 2-3 at about 5500 it hooked and felt strong. :salute:

 

 

Or is he saying that he began with a rolling start, hammering the gas at 2500rpm in 1st gear, shifting into 2nd at some unspecified rpm and so on? I'd like to hear more specifically what happened on the TC off launch - what exactly happened to the car that left you shaking for half an hour?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or is he saying that he began with a rolling start, hammering the gas at 2500rpm in 1st gear, shifting into 2nd at some unspecified rpm and so on? I'd like to hear more specifically what happened on the TC off launch - what exactly happened to the car that left you shaking for half an hour?

 

 

That is pretty much it but the shift into second was at 5500 as well. With TC off it was a cloud of smoke at launch! What scared the hell out of me was when I shifted from 2nd-3rd at just about 6000 rpm and the tail kicked out rather violently and I just wasn't expecting it. You have know that my previous fun car was a F430 which is tame compared to this little monster. The Ferrari is faster and much more predictable. However, I like the Shelby more, it just requires more attention and some getting used to.

 

Sorry about my poorly worded post last night. Maybe I shoudn't drink and post either? Brought to you by Johnnie Walker..........

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I got up very early this morning in order to conduct an experiment. I wanted to "try" to learn the limits of the 11 500 with TC-on, TC-sp and TC-off.

 

 

There are *4* Traction Control modes on the 2010/11 GT500.

Two of the modes are TC/OFF....but one of them is with Advancetrak on (it keeps the car straighter) and one is with Advancetrak off.

 

With TC in the "off" position (one quick click of the TC button) you are still in "Advancetrack ON" mode. If you start out in default (TC ON) but hold the TC button down for about 8 seconds (mine takes 6 seconds). The dash indicator will show "Advancetrak OFF".

 

This is "hairy mode" as I found out last night.

 

I've done a standing launch with TC OFF (a quick push of the TC button) and it wasn't anything spectacular. Nice long burn-out, but nothing spectacular. Last night I stopped and held the button down so it was FULL OFF. I put the car in 2nd gear (I planned on doing a standing burn-out), revved the motor to about 4 grand, side stepped the clutch and put the throttle to the floor. Rather than put my left foot on the brake to keep it "standing" I just let 'er rip. By FAR the best burn-out I've ever done. Smoke billowed out of the rear tire wells and I put down about 10K worth of tire (nice LONG and BLACK marks) but once I was at a point where I needed to shift to 3rd I let off....uh oh, this is where I felt the "Advancetrak" feature not working. The car started to "drift" on me with the tail end wanting to pass me on the left. I kept my senses and DID NOT hit the brakes. I just steered into it until I got it completely straight and then started braking.

 

That's the first time she wanted to switch ends on me. It was more like the rear tires were on ice, which is why I did NOT want to hit the brake. I knew if I did, she was gonna swap ends and the street wasn't that wide.

 

So:

 

Function 1 (default): Traction Control ON.

Function 2: (double click) Sport Mode

Function 3: (single click) TC OFF, Advancetrak ON

Function 4: (HOLD DOWN for 8 seconds) TC OFF, Advancetrak OFF

 

Try it, I think you'll notice a difference. I know *I* did!

 

 

Phill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are *4* Traction Control modes on the 2010/11 GT500.

Two of the modes are TC/OFF....but one of them is with Advancetrak on (it keeps the car straighter) and one is with Advancetrak off.

 

With TC in the "off" position (one quick click of the TC button) you are still in "Advancetrack ON" mode. If you start out in default (TC ON) but hold the TC button down for about 8 seconds (mine takes 6 seconds). The dash indicator will show "Advancetrak OFF".

 

This is "hairy mode" as I found out last night.

 

I've done a standing launch with TC OFF (a quick push of the TC button) and it wasn't anything spectacular. Nice long burn-out, but nothing spectacular. Last night I stopped and held the button down so it was FULL OFF. I put the car in 2nd gear (I planned on doing a standing burn-out), revved the motor to about 4 grand, side stepped the clutch and put the throttle to the floor. Rather than put my left foot on the brake to keep it "standing" I just let 'er rip. By FAR the best burn-out I've ever done. Smoke billowed out of the rear tire wells and I put down about 10K worth of tire (nice LONG and BLACK marks) but once I was at a point where I needed to shift to 3rd I let off....uh oh, this is where I felt the "Advancetrak" feature not working. The car started to "drift" on me with the tail end wanting to pass me on the left. I kept my senses and DID NOT hit the brakes. I just steered into it until I got it completely straight and then started braking.

 

That's the first time she wanted to switch ends on me. It was more like the rear tires were on ice, which is why I did NOT want to hit the brake. I knew if I did, she was gonna swap ends and the street wasn't that wide.

 

So:

 

Function 1 (default): Traction Control ON.

Function 2: (double click) Sport Mode

Function 3: (single click) TC OFF, Advancetrak ON

Function 4: (HOLD DOWN for 8 seconds) TC OFF, Advancetrak OFF

 

Try it, I think you'll notice a difference. I know *I* did!

 

 

Phill

[/quote

 

Phill,

I know what you mean by "drift." I was in TC off and AT off and that is what scared me. Like I said I just was not expecting what we have both experienced, swapping ends! I did not hit the brakes either but it was a scary few seconds]

Rocky

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Phill,

I know what you mean by "drift." I was in TC off and AT off and that is what scared me. Like I said I just was not expecting what we have both experienced, swapping ends! I did not hit the brakes either but it was a scary few seconds]

Rocky

 

 

Yeah, it was a sensation I hadn't ever felt. It wasn't a power move, it was a "no traction" move. I've had the car leave a big double SS mark on the road when I banged 2nd before but it wasn't the same feeling. I felt it "kick out" to the left (the rear) and just kept on it and steered into it. This time was different.... The 2nd gear move was more controlable. The one last night didn't feel good at all. It was more like, "uh oh"...

 

 

Phill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The most powerfull traction control device is your brain, I have seen plenty of guys lose their car for no reason except they should have let off the gas, you have no control of the surface on the steet and it will bite you from time to time. After the first time you spin out at 100mph you learn exactly how to not do it anymore, depending where you do it you may never have a chance to try again.

 

http://www.dpccars.com/car-videos-09/07-17-09page-C6-Corvette-Z06-crash-while-drag-racing.htm

 

Seen it quite a few times, fast stock car, stock tires, no experience, stay into it when the tires are spinning, hit guardrail.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The most powerfull traction control device is your brain,

 

 

I have to disagree.

 

The human body can *not* comprehend and react to a particular situation anywhere *near* as fast as a computer controlled Traction Control system can.

 

For a Human: First the event has to start and then it has to get bad enough for a human to realize it is going to be, or is a problem. Then the eyes see it and they send a signal to the brain. The brain must process the signal *and* make a decision (decide) on wha to do, then send a signal to the feet and hands. Then the feet/hands must act (move) and not move too little or too much, or the process must start all over agian. It takes a human almost 1 full second for each process to occur (see, decide, react).

 

For a computer TCS: Electricity travels right at the speed of light (186,000 miles per second/300 million meters per second).

 

A wheel speed sensor senses a difference in speed from wheel-to-wheel MUCH sooner than a human detects the same difference. It is already sending signals to the CPU whch then processes the signal and sends out a predetermined action to back off the throttle, apply a brake, etc. The slowest part in this "link" is the mechanical action of the throttle plate motor or the ABS brake actuator.

 

This all happens in *micro* seconds.

Not "Milliseconds" (thousandths of a second) but in Microseconds.

 

 

And that's why *I* have to disagree,

Phill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to disagree.

 

The human body can *not* comprehend and react to a particular situation anywhere *near* as fast as a computer controlled Traction Control system can.

 

For a Human: First the event has to start and then it has to get bad enough for a human to realize it is going to be, or is a problem. Then the eyes see it and they send a signal to the brain. The brain must process the signal *and* make a decision (decide) on wha to do, then send a signal to the feet and hands. Then the feet/hands must act (move) and not move too little or too much, or the process must start all over agian. It takes a human almost 1 full second for each process to occur (see, decide, react).

 

For a computer TCS: Electricity travels right at the speed of light (186,000 miles per second/300 million meters per second).

 

A wheel speed sensor senses a difference in speed from wheel-to-wheel MUCH sooner than a human detects the same difference. It is already sending signals to the CPU whch then processes the signal and sends out a predetermined action to back off the throttle, apply a brake, etc. The slowest part in this "link" is the mechanical action of the throttle plate motor or the ABS brake actuator.

 

This all happens in *micro* seconds.

Not "Milliseconds" (thousandths of a second) but in Microseconds.

 

 

And that's why *I* have to disagree,

Phill

 

 

I disagree, you cant argue the fact that if you werent into the throttle to begin with it never would have happened. Your brain can do a lot more things than the traction can, like seeing a curve coming up.

 

TC is a nice driver aid, but if you rely on it too much it can get you. Its like putting on a bulletproof vest and thinking you wont get killed if you get shot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...
...