Traction?

[JWG223]

I can tell that the 11's with the PP do not wheel hop. The 2010's do I know because thats what I trade in for the 2011. The control arms, panhard Bar and other Mods cured it on the 11. I have driven the car about 1600 miles so far and not one wheelhop incident. The 2010 I had wheelhoped all the time it was spinning, no such problem with the 2011 PP GT500.

 

 

I used to dog on Ford all the time because they never did anything right in the performance-car world except for the Terminator, and the IRS was a joke. It is nice to see that at least ONE American car company can turn their act around, listen to the customer, make USEFUL changes, build a quality car, and do it all without kissing Obama's arse.

 

+1 for making changes YM to YM !

[Ezareth]

SO...ummm...how did the TC-off test go? I am hoping no-news is good news : /

 

 

I couldn't get out of traffic enough to do a good launch (the only time I was ever alone at a red light was next to the police station) but I did get to "play around" at lower speeds with the TC off and there isn't much difference from a roll other than a little bit more "shift" when powershifting second. Due to traffic it wasn't at max RPMs though yet but I'm still pleased to drive a 550 HP car and have no noticable traction issues.

 

Raining yesterday and today. Should be nice Saturday, I'll try again. I just don't want to feel like and ass doing a 4K RPM launch at a light with some granny or soccer mom next to me and scare them half to death.

[darthracer777]

Yes, he ran mid 11s with the ET streets, 11.9x on the stock tires. If you look at the fastest 1/4 mile list on SVTperformance.com the fastest 100% stock 2010 was 11.36 on slicks and the same guy ran a 12.08 on the stock tires so its not just 'magic' that makes these cars fast. Its cool weather and traction.

 

My point was not the ET he ran, but if the hop on these are so bad you would have thought someone would have mentioned it, until it cools off around here I wont get to see because like you I have no traction issues at all. I'm sure if I sidestepped the clutch at 5000rpm it would spin the tires but its the '100 days of summer heat' in these parts so doing burnouts on the street isnt a good idea.

 

I'll have to go to a local dragstrip one of these days and try it, just been too hot to do anything, if going to spin and hop it will happen at one of the local tracks here. I just hate to get started with the whole dragstrip thing with a convertible. I have no self control when I start modding

 

 

Actually, I have emailed Evan Smith on several occasions. With regards to the traction issue, he informed me that he had no wheel hop during the '10 GT500 drag testing. So, maybe the wheel hop is not as bad as some say? I don't know, but Evan had no trouble with it. His low ET on the MTs was 11.59.......no wheel hop. The '11 GT500 without the PP has a suspension that is fairly close to the '10 model. It seems if Evan could get mid 11s with the '10, then you should be able to accomplish the same results with the non-PP '11 model.

[Ezareth]

Actually, I have emailed Evan Smith on several occasions. With regards to the traction issue, he informed me that he had no wheel hop during the '10 GT500 drag testing. So, maybe the wheel hop is not as bad as some say? I don't know, but Evan had no trouble with it. His low ET on the MTs was 11.59.......no wheel hop. The '11 GT500 without the PP has a suspension that is fairly close to the '10 model. It seems if Evan could get mid 11s with the '10, then you should be able to accomplish the same results with the non-PP '11 model.

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the terminology of "wheel hop" but to me that means when going over less than perfect road, the tendency for your rear to "hop" and shift to the left. I've tried a few times accelerating hard in some spots I know I had some hop in my '99 and the '11 GT500 maintains traction and control all the way through.

 

I Don't think you're going to be able to test wheel hop significantly on a track....but maybe I'm thinking of something other than what it is.

[JWG223]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the terminology of "wheel hop" but to me that means when going over less than perfect road, the tendency for your rear to "hop" and shift to the left. I've tried a few times accelerating hard in some spots I know I had some hop in my '99 and the '11 GT500 maintains traction and control all the way through.

 

I Don't think you're going to be able to test wheel hop significantly on a track....but maybe I'm thinking of something other than what it is.

 

 

You are just thinking of a non IRS car, lol.

 

Wheel-hop is when the tires break/gain traction rapidly, which results in them (and the rear-suspension) bunny-hopping. It sounds like a mad-man with a jack-hammer attacking the back half of your car, and will break half-shafts, rear-ends, etc. Bad bad bad.

[Ezareth]

You are just thinking of a non IRS car, lol.

 

Wheel-hop is when the tires break/gain traction rapidly, which results in them (and the rear-suspension) bunny-hopping. It sounds like a mad-man with a jack-hammer attacking the back half of your car, and will break half-shafts, rear-ends, etc. Bad bad bad.

 

 

Well I've had tire spin and veering sideways and I've had tire "hopping" and veering similar to what you're describing. I've never had tire-hopping and NOT had my rear end shifting. The tire hopping for me has only happened on less than smooth surfaces, can't say I've ever experienced it at a track or a decently paved straightaway and so far never in my Shelby.

 

I'm coming to the conclusion that there are too many car terms for too many people who all have variations on what they mean. Why can't everything be simple like a computer program ) =

[JWG223]

Well I've had tire spin and veering sideways and I've had tire "hopping" and veering similar to what you're describing. I've never had tire-hopping and NOT had my rear end shifting. The tire hopping for me has only happened on less than smooth surfaces, can't say I've ever experienced it at a track or a decently paved straightaway and so far never in my Shelby.

 

I'm coming to the conclusion that there are too many car terms for too many people who all have variations on what they mean. Why can't everything be simple like a computer program ) =

 

 

Kicking one way or another is normal for most diffs. Maybe a detroit locker wouldn't, but most clutch or viscous diffs still spin one tire faster than the other and thus a kick. Wheel/Tire-hop is a pretty standard term in drag-racing circles.

[kpevin]

Actually, I have emailed Evan Smith on several occasions. With regards to the traction issue, he informed me that he had no wheel hop during the '10 GT500 drag testing. So, maybe the wheel hop is not as bad as some say? I don't know, but Evan had no trouble with it. His low ET on the MTs was 11.59.......no wheel hop. The '11 GT500 without the PP has a suspension that is fairly close to the '10 model. It seems if Evan could get mid 11s with the '10, then you should be able to accomplish the same results with the non-PP '11 model.

 

 

Supposedly the '10 GT500s got stiffer bushings in the LCA and UCA, maybe the early '10s didnt, I drove a stock '08 and that thing was a wheel hopping machine..

 

Most likely the ET streets helped with the hop, radial tires tend to be worse than bias tires with larger sidewalls and 15lbs of air.

 

Most people wont even experience it anyhow, when you go to a badly prepped dragstrip where you can spin the tires for 1000' is where it will really show itself, I read here where someone said his 2011 was hopping like crazy so who knows. Either way its easy enough to fix.

[jsarkis]

I haven't noticed any wheel hop in my 10, but the traction is a little dangerous when pushing it to the limits in stock form (tc is always off unless it's wet).

 

 

[JWG223]

I haven't noticed any wheel hop in my 10, but the traction is a little dangerous when pushing it to the limits in stock form (tc is always off unless it's wet).

 

 

I would leave it on unless you have a reason to turn it off. Then again, that's just my opinion. Full refund if you don't want it.

[JWG223]

Supposedly the '10 GT500s got stiffer bushings in the LCA and UCA, maybe the early '10s didnt, I drove a stock '08 and that thing was a wheel hopping machine..

 

Most likely the ET streets helped with the hop, radial tires tend to be worse than bias tires with larger sidewalls and 15lbs of air.

 

Most people wont even experience it anyhow, when you go to a badly prepped dragstrip where you can spin the tires for 1000' is where it will really show itself, I read here where someone said his 2011 was hopping like crazy so who knows. Either way its easy enough to fix.

 

Link?

[kpevin]

Link?

 

 

 

Link, yea I remember it

 

The search isnt so great here but it was posted in the last month or so, as usual someone said their 2011 didnt hop and someone said theirs did.

[Ezareth]

Well I had a few chances to test the traction control off and second always hooks up with a little chirp and spin but 4000+ rpms. I can't really hit second in higher since with the TC off anything over 3K rpms and the pedal floored breaks the rear loose.

 

Dumping the clutch and getting any sort of traction in first just isn't possible from what I can see but I'm happy with second ( =

[JWG223]

Well I had a few chances to test the traction control off and second always hooks up with a little chirp and spin but 4000+ rpms. I can't really hit second in higher since with the TC off anything over 3K rpms and the pedal floored breaks the rear loose.

 

Dumping the clutch and getting any sort of traction in first just isn't possible from what I can see but I'm happy with second ( =

 

 

 

4K rpm is SERIOUSLY short-shifting the car. Any 1-2 shifts above 4K seriously upsets the rear-end? :/

[Ezareth]

4K rpm is SERIOUSLY short-shifting the car. Any 1-2 shifts above 4K seriously upsets the rear-end? :/

 

 

If I let it hit 6K RPM with the TC off in 1st she'll be sideways by the time I hit second unless I only have the clutch half-engaged and thats a good way to smoke your clutch ( =

 

If I recall the 11s (and maybe the 10s too) hit their max power alot earlier and for a longer range so the loss shouldn't be too bad. I don't really feel much of a difference in power between 4K and 6K.

[lawdude]

If I let it hit 6K RPM with the TC off in 1st she'll be sideways by the time I hit second unless I only have the clutch half-engaged and thats a good way to smoke your clutch ( =

 

If I recall the 11s (and maybe the 10s too) hit their max power alot earlier and for a longer range so the loss shouldn't be too bad. I don't really feel much of a difference in power between 4K and 6K.

 

What kind of tires you running on the rear?

[JWG223]

If I let it hit 6K RPM with the TC off in 1st she'll be sideways by the time I hit second unless I only have the clutch half-engaged and thats a good way to smoke your clutch ( =

 

If I recall the 11s (and maybe the 10s too) hit their max power alot earlier and for a longer range so the loss shouldn't be too bad. I don't really feel much of a difference in power between 4K and 6K.

 

 

Are you no-longer stock? What kind of surface are we talking here?

 

The reason I ask is because when I visited SanAntonio, I was able to roll into it in 2nd in my WS6 and send the rear-end sliding. ROLLING into it. Not even stabbing it. The streets there were like glass, and this was with F1GSD3 tires on a 90* day. VERY wierd. Never experienced anything like it on clean surfaces before or since.

[jsarkis]

I would leave it on unless you have a reason to turn it off. Then again, that's just my opinion. Full refund if you don't want it.

 

 

 

Well I would if: My good two friends who are Ford techs (and my mod shop's owner) swore it's much harder on the car leaving TC on. They said it slightly engages the clutch, and prematurely wears it. So now I've bought a few tweaks in the rear suspension and added kdw2's and I'm a happy camper. I also still like the feel of the true car's power, maybe I'm weird

[jsarkis]

Well I had a few chances to test the traction control off and second always hooks up with a little chirp and spin but 4000+ rpms. I can't really hit second in higher since with the TC off anything over 3K rpms and the pedal floored breaks the rear loose.

 

Dumping the clutch and getting any sort of traction in first just isn't possible from what I can see but I'm happy with second ( =

 

 

 

 

Shift from 1st - 2nd at 6200ish rpms and then let us know how the car's traction is w/ TC off. It's tame unless you unretard the power, keep tc off & unleash hell(unless it's wet). You now see why soo many change their tires and tweak their rear suspsension / pinion angle from stock (kinda dangerous with stock traction unless you use tc). Max power for these comes at arond 6200ish rpms, that's why a lot change their rev limiter. It's pretty tough to consistently shift at max power when your at the rev limiter (hitting the limiter will scare the crap out of you, trust me).

 

If your happy with just second then don't try to race much on the street or you'll just give all the M5's, 3's, cts/ctv, base vettes, porches, suburus etc. ammo to raid their forums claiming they beat a new Shelby

[MattR]

Well I would if: My good two friends who are Ford techs (and my mod shop's owner) swore it's much harder on the car leaving TC on. They said it slightly engages the clutch, and prematurely wears it. So now I've bought a few tweaks in the rear suspension and added kdw2's and I'm a happy camper. I also still like the feel of the true car's power, maybe I'm weird

 

 

How in the heck does it engage the clutch? Can anyone confim this, a tuner maybe?

[jsarkis]

How in the heck does it engage the clutch? Can anyone confim this, a tuner maybe?

 

 

I hope someone can answer. I've heard now tc either or some of: limits the car by: computer pulls timing, engages brakes, slightly engages the clutch

[JWG223]

Well I would if: My good two friends who are Ford techs (and my mod shop's owner) swore it's much harder on the car leaving TC on. They said it slightly engages the clutch, and prematurely wears it. So now I've bought a few tweaks in the rear suspension and added kdw2's and I'm a happy camper. I also still like the feel of the true car's power, maybe I'm weird

 

 

With all due respect. BS.

 

Traction control works by pulling timing, and in some vehicles when massive tirespin is encountered, also trimming injector cycle/cutting fuel. In some vehicles it automatically pulls timing between shifts (think 5.0 GT of yester-year, done to save the weak transmission rather than any traction issue) as well as when tire-slip is detected. It also engages the brake(s) of the slipping tire(s). The combination of things done vary from car to car make/model, etc. However, NONE of them DISengage the clutch partially. There are no servo's or actuators or anything else computerized in the clutch or clutch hydraulics to do so.

 

When your buddy's can show you the actuator or part used to slightly DISENGAGE the clutch, post the PN.

When your buddy's can show you the RPM's rising in your car with TC on and the tires not spinning. Post a vid.

Until then, stop listening to them and for heaven's sake don't let those yahoos near your baby with a wrench. Find a better trained service dept. group or do it yourself.

 

TC on is always a smart thing. You never know when you will encounter a patch of gravel or something. TC only enhances your odds of coming out of the encounter with your car shiny side up.

[JWG223]

If I let it hit 6K RPM with the TC off in 1st she'll be sideways by the time I hit second unless I only have the clutch half-engaged and thats a good way to smoke your clutch ( =

 

If I recall the 11s (and maybe the 10s too) hit their max power alot earlier and for a longer range so the loss shouldn't be too bad. I don't really feel much of a difference in power between 4K and 6K.

 

Shifting at 4K leaves you at what, 2800rpm or something in 2nd totally dead in the water? Go race a stock 370Z or 4th Gen Trans Am/Z28 Camaro and shifting at 4K will stop being cool. You need to wind it out not only to reach maximum power but also so you don't fall into a pit of nutlessness when you get into the next gear.

 

How are all these magazines getting 0-60's in the low 4-second range shifting at 4K? THere has to be more to the picture here : /

[jsarkis]

With all due respect. BS.

 

 

 

Cool I sure hope your right. They also said it engages the brake and pulled timing like I mentioned in my other post. This is coming from the probably the best mod shop in Houston & 2 service managers , probably just wrong on this or a way to justify all the 07-09 problems.

 

Bah we don't need no stinken TC, just common sense My Z06's TC just a suspension mod, I hate having retarded power unless it's in stock form of course or wet.

[blazeone]

With all due respect. BS.

 

 

 

Cool I sure hope your right. They also said it engages the brake and pulled timing like I mentioned in my other post. This is coming from the probably the best mod shop in Houston & 2 service managers , probably just wrong on this or a way to justify all the 07-09 problems.

 

Bah we don't need no stinken TC, just common sense My Z06's TC just a suspension mod, I hate having retarded power unless it's in stock form of course or wet.

 

 

 

Good God please name the shops. The BS about TC and the clutch is ridiculous. As mentioned before TC will pull timing and on some cars cut fuel. Some cars such as Mercedes TC will even apply the rear brakes some. But none disengage the clutch.

[kpevin]

I believe the TC on these does apply the brakes if it senses one rear wheel spinning faster than the other.

 

Most 4 channel ABS cars will do that, 3 channel cars do not. Some will apply both rear brakes but not if there is any throttle input.

 

I doubt it will hurt the car much, most of the TC is pulling timing, closing the throttle blade or both. TC wont pull fuel, thats pretty dangerous at WOT unless it cuts it off completely. TCS equipped 4th gen f-bodies had a mechanical actuator that closed the throttle, C5+ and these (plus many others) have electronic throttles so its pretty easy to reduce throttle when the TC wishes to do so.

 

Clutch has nothing to do with anything TC related.

[Ezareth]

What kind of tires you running on the rear?

 

 

The Stock G2 Supercars

[Ezareth]

Shift from 1st - 2nd at 6200ish rpms and then let us know how the car's traction is w/ TC off. It's tame unless you unretard the power, keep tc off & unleash hell(unless it's wet). You now see why soo many change their tires and tweak their rear suspsension / pinion angle from stock (kinda dangerous with stock traction unless you use tc). Max power for these comes at arond 6200ish rpms, that's why a lot change their rev limiter. It's pretty tough to consistently shift at max power when your at the rev limiter (hitting the limiter will scare the crap out of you, trust me).

 

If your happy with just second then don't try to race much on the street or you'll just give all the M5's, 3's, cts/ctv, base vettes, porches, suburus etc. ammo to raid their forums claiming they beat a new Shelby

 

 

You're sure the '11s hit max HP 6200 RPMs? Anyone have a dyno readout of this? I'm shifting second to third at max and can't see myself maxing third unless I'm on the highway.

 

I can probably shift at 6000 RPMS from 1st to second, but not when doing a high RPM launch to start....It's just all over the road by then.

 

I used to hit the rev limiter quite a bit lot in my Saleen, once while passing 6 cars with oncoming traffic and THAT scared the crap out of my wife and I!

[jsarkis]

You're sure the '11s hit max HP 6200 RPMs? Anyone have a dyno readout of this? I'm shifting second to third at max and can't see myself maxing third unless I'm on the highway.

 

I can probably shift at 6000 RPMS from 1st to second, but not when doing a high RPM launch to start....It's just all over the road by then.

 

I used to hit the rev limiter quite a bit lot in my Saleen, once while passing 6 cars with oncoming traffic and THAT scared the crap out of my wife and I!

 

 

 

Just google 2011 GT500 specs: I found this sorry for the way it looks, cut & paste:

Horsepower @ RPM 550 @ 6200

Torque @ RPM 510 @ 4250

[Ezareth]

Just google 2011 GT500 specs: I found this sorry for the way it looks, cut & paste:

Horsepower @ RPM 550 @ 6200

Torque @ RPM 510 @ 4250

 

 

 

 

The gains over 5500 RPMs or even 5000 RPMs is not that much but yeah I guess max HP comes at max RPM.