HSURB Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 Yes, we make over the road engines for semis as well as many other types. I'm not clear on the definition of "clean diesel", but suffice it to say that as of 1/1/07, we had new emissions requirements go into effect from the EPA (as you alluded to, the date for purchasing the VEHICLES may be 2/07, but since we sell only the engine, I believe we had a 1/07 deadline to get our engines into the pipeline) and have met all EPA deadlines. We are very proud of our commitment to producing products that perform well and reduce emissions. For confidentiality reasons, I'm not permitted to talk about what's going on in our R&D center, but suffice it to say that we believe we are the leaders in diesel engine technology in the world in the product ranges we make (I think the smallest product we sell is around 1.7 liters, and the largest I'm aware of is 91 liters). We even announced publicly a short time ago (see link below) that we have a product that will go on sale in March 2007 that will meet the 2010 EPA standards...a full 2.5 years earlier than necessary! That product is for one of our smaller products (6.7 liters) that's used in the Dodge Ram pickup as an optional engine. http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/news/cleanramdiesels.html Dave Dave - what do you think of the Caterpillar ACERT Engine Technology? HSURB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 Dave - what do you think of the Caterpillar ACERT Engine Technology? HSURB Interesting tech... I found info on it here. It appears to be a pre-low-sulfur diesel technology that could be improved even further with the advent of low-sulfur fuel (but I'm by no means a diesel expert). I think diesel, possibly for the first time in the US, is poised for a major foray into the auto market as more clean-diesel refinery capacity comes on-line. Variable vane turbo tech and DI will both help yield quiet, compact, hi-output diesels for cars as in Europe and the low-sulfur fuels will make it acceptable as an environmentally-friendly (if still dino based <lol>) for now. I'd by a hi-po DI clean-diesel twin turbo Inteceptor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloy Dave Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Dave, I'm not picking a fight, but you even admit that "as of 1/1/07"....isn't that last month? I am also aware of clean deisel technology- and I think it's a great step in the right direction. In reference to deisel trucks, there are a vast majority of very old deisels on the roads today, correct? Or am I wrong? Also, soot & pollutants contribute to acid rain, and that is not inconclusive, it's a well known fact. To deny that is, in my opinion, ludicrous. And--most importantly: I was pointing out that these two thing do contribute to pollution relative to sports cars. Maybe you missed that! Sports cars make up a tiny fraction of what's on the road today, agreed? My response was to that individual who claimed that these types of vehicles were "major contributors" to pollution & global warming". I don't think that sports cars are a high enough percentage {of vehicles on the road} to make a statistically significant contribution to that. Thanks dude! Crispy, thanks for responding. I'll see if I can address each point. 1) My comment about 1/1/07 is the MOST RECENT emissions hurdle. As I stated in another post, diesels have had emissions hurdles since the late eighties, about every 4-5 years there is a new one. 2) No, I disagree with your comment that there are a "vast majority" of very old diesels on the roads today. Our largest customers are the fleets...who do the majority of long-haul trucking in the U.S. Their replacement cycles are about 5-6 years. In other words, if you look at the age of the average fleet of vehicles today, they are about 3-4 years old. Most of these trucks are driven around 80,000 miles/year. Our warranties (can't give an exact number, as it varies by engine, application, etc.) for this type of vehicle are 250,000 miles on MOST components, and 500,000 on MAJOR components. Rebuilds are very expensive, so often the fleets will sell the vehicles to independent drivers once they get near the 400,000 mark. That means the oldest vehicles in these fleets are typically 5 years or so. Granted, there are some "very old" trucks around, but they are typically used for either short haul, or infrequent use, or backup duty. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find very many early '90s engines or older around in long-haul trucks. 3) I will not deny that soot contributes to acid rain. However, what I was pointing out is that there is a lot of conflicting evidence on whether soot can be linked to any advers HEALTH affects. Acid rain does not have a direct link to HEALTH impacts. I was just trying to dispell a common myth that there is a definite link of black soot to cancer. I'm not saying that soot doesn't cause cancer...what I'm saying is that the science has not yet definitively proven this. Many people strongly believe it, but there are clearly bodies of evidence on both sides...much like the debate on global warming. Yes, soot is dirty, it's nasty, it may make you cough if you stick your face in it (walking in to a horse barn on a farm makes me cough too, but that doesn't mean it's harmful to my health), I would not want it blown in my face, etc....but we don't know whether it causes cancer. 4) I don't have data on the number of sports cars on the road vs. trucks, but I'd say I agree that there are probably many more trucks than sports cars, and certainly the trucks drive more miles. 5) I agree that the number of sports cars are not significant enough to be a major contributor of global warming, etc. Actually I'd prefer to use the term "old cars" rather than sports cars. A 1966 Buick Lesabre is not a sports car, but I'm guessing it spits out much more pollution than a 2007 GT500...so to me it's less of a "sports car" issue and more of an "old car" issue. For example, my '69 Camaro certainly puts out a lot of pollution. I think we're in full agreement on this point. Overall, my main point was to defend the diesel to some extent from the perception that they are dirty, filthy products that ruin the environment moreso than autos. In SOME of the emissions categories, they are actually CLEANER than gasoline cars. On-road emissions limits for diesels on the trucks in question starting in 2007 (there is a phase-in period) are: PM - .01 g/bhp*hr NOx - .2 g/bhp*hr NMHC - .14 g/bhp*hr (PM = Particulate matter, NOx = Oxides of Nitrogen, NMHC = Non-methane Hydrocarbons) Unfortunately it's difficult to compare diesels to gasoline in this regard because passenger cars are rated using grams per mile, while diesels are rated using grams per brake horsepower hour. The reason for this is that many pieces of diesel equipment don't go "miles", such as backup generator power in hospitals and excavators. The movement to ULSF (Ultra Low Sulfur Fuel) was key in the 2007 standards, because the only viable option to meet the PM levels was catalytic aftertreatment. Unfortunately, sulfur disables catalysts very quickly. Therefore, the sulfur had to go before the catalysts could be effectively used. That's why the emissions targets were set so far in advance (the rules were drawn in 2000, and are just now taking effect)...the fuel companies needed time to convert their refining to ULSF. As additional info...here is a link showing the progression for emissions standards for diesels. They show it starting in 1988...which confirms the original date I quoted above. http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/hd.html#y2007 Other interesting links: A VW diesel that's CLEANER than a Prius (in terms of CO2) http://www.autospies.com/news/New-Diesel-V...ta-Prius-11000/ Details on ULSF mandate: http://www.dec.state.ak.us/air/anpms/as/doc/EPA-ulsd.pdf An article stating that diesels can "meet or beat" gasoline cars on PM. In addition, diesels are cleaner than gasoline in terms of producing lower CO2 emissions. This goes to my point above that IN SOME EMISSIONS, diesels are cleaner than gasoline vehicles. http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_...5_7/ai_99232199 Regards, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy23c Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Thanks for the education, Dave! You brought up some valid points as well. Stuff I didn't even consider. Good stuff. Nothing against deisels, but I do hope the '08 '500 burns gas! Best, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloy Dave Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Thanks for the education, Dave! You brought up some valid points as well. Stuff I didn't even consider. Good stuff.Nothing against deisels, but I do hope the '08 '500 burns gas! Best, Chris I also hope the '08 burns gas. I don't like driving diesels either. They are too loud for me, and the acceleration in the ones I've driven is not that great. I'm sure there are some fast ones out there, but not the ones I've driven. Interestingly, in Europe most pass cars are diesels. They get about 15-20% better fuel mileage, so I'm sure that has something to do with it since gas is like $8/gallon or something rediculous. pjcobra9t7...fill us in on gas prices over there. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Dave, great summary and links... thanks. The only quarrel I'd have is witht he Particulates/cancer question. I agree that there is data both ways. My quarrel is that "cancer" is the wrong argument. Particulates are most definately a health concern -- they coat the lungs and affect lung capacity not unlike coal-miners black-lung disease. The low-sulfur fules will now permit particulates to be dramatically reduced because workable/durable particulate filters become feasible with low-sulfur diesel (as I think you pointed out). So, just wanted to mention that I feel the cancer question is a diesel-indistry 'red-herring' question analygous to all the studies that show that cell phone don't produce cancer. They don't! But what they do is produce other health hazards: brain tumors in cell phone users in rural areas. That's why all the indistry paid studies are focussed on cancer -- it's a red-hering argument. Also, not to beat a dead horse, acid rain is responsible for myriad health hazards -- it affects everything from trees (makes the oxygen you breath) to fish (nearly half of the thousands of lakes in the Adiriondack mountains ['downstream' from the acid spewing plants of the mid-west] are dead (no fish and dramatically denuded lake bottoms). Everything else you posted i agree with -- diesels are going to be big in the US in the interim between now and when real non-fossil alternatives become economically and technologically practical. Diesel sports/hi-po cars are most certainly in our future, imo, until someting better to address the fossil/polution proble matures... which could take a while. Again, thanks for those links -- geat info (notice the PM specs for city busses... they drop like a stone with the advent of low-sulfur diesel ;-) -Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloy Dave Posted February 18, 2007 Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 Dave, great summary and links... thanks. -Dan Right on Dan. It's a complex subject for sure. I think we can all agree that we are moving forward and making progress. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted February 18, 2007 Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 Right on Dan. It's a complex subject for sure. I think we can all agree that we are moving forward and making progress. Dave Yeah, I just hope the domestics aren't hampered too much by coming late to the party (they've had no choice lacking the low-S diesel) as the Europeans have been working that turf for a while. That's why I was so glad to see Ford be the first clean-diesel light truck domestic. A small specialty diesel-powered gen-set would be a great base for an electric car -- not necessarily a sophisticated hybrid, but the electric power source. The e-volt (that funky thing I posted the video of) has now been retrofitted with a dedicated MG-set so it can run on on-board power or plug-in power (1st 40 miles). GM says they've decoupled the gen-powersource and the electric-motors so that as better energy sources are available (they specifically mention bio-diesel and hydrogen if I recall) the downstream drive systems are unaffected. What I read made it seem like GM was serious about commercializing something like the e-volt (improved version) in the near future. I can't help but wonder how long it will take Ford to bring the diesel-electric hybrid Reflex concept to market. Technologically superior if not as elegant as a decoupled electric car with on-board power, and a lightyear ahead of the e-volt in refinement (and styling), I'd buy a Reflex in a heartbeat with a base price of $20K or so ;-) What a great gorcery-getter/commuter (the other car being a Boss 302, of course <lol>) <I see I'm way off topic again -- me bad -- ;-)> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 bump wtf, dog-boy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelbymarie Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 FROM THE FORD ORDERING GUIDE 2008 SHELBY GT500 Info. Paint Options: D3 TORCH RED CC G5 ALLOY METALLIC G9 VISTA BLUE CC HP PERFOR WHITE CC UA BLACK CC U3 GRABBER ORANGE ZY VAPOR CC MET ------------------------------------ some NEW Options: 31S MUSTANG VPC 317 SHP THRU-AMPORT 422 CALIF EMISSIONS 425 50 STATE EMISS 428 HI ALT PRIN USE 429 NON HI ALT USE 50S SAT RADIO W/6MO 51H HID HEADLAMPS 58X DVD NAV SYS 85A ALLOY STRIPE 85E EBONY STRIPE 852 WHITE STRIPE 854 WHITE STRIPE 95M MOOD LIGHTING randy if there is going to be a 2008 why is everyone paying so much for the 2007, or do we think that the dealers are going to ask as much for the 2008, i am stuck between weather i want a 2007 at 15k over or see what happens in 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 if there is going to be a 2008 why is everyone paying so much for the 2007, or do we think that the dealers are going to ask as much for the 2008, i am stuck between weather i want a 2007 at 15k over or see what happens in 2008 If having a 40th car means anything to you.......get the 2007. The ADM is not leaving for the 2008's anytime soon. You might get lucky, but you need to ask your self: Do I Feel Lucky. Well Do ya ! Grab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloy Dave Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 if there is going to be a 2008 why is everyone paying so much for the 2007, or do we think that the dealers are going to ask as much for the 2008, i am stuck between weather i want a 2007 at 15k over or see what happens in 2008 I agree with Grabber...there is no information saying the ADMs are going away, just lots of speculation. There were many speculators who last summer were saying the ADMs would be gone by spring of '07, and that is obviously not true. In addition, keep in mind that the '08 may see a bump in the MSRP price. Also, some people say (although I disagree) that the GG tax will be significantly higher in '08 due to the change in EPA fuel mileage methodology. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckstang Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 The slight increase in msrp from Ford and GGT going up should help even furter with the vanishing of ADMs because now the adms will be starting at an even higher starting price. Everyone that had to have one has basically got one and once the 08s hit, the more shrewd/savy buyers will go make their offers. Basically the rich/famous/collectors have already got theirs, that is the good news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnut Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 The slight increase in msrp from Ford and GGT going up should help even furter with the vanishing of ADMs because now the adms will be starting at an even higher starting price. Everyone that had to have one has basically got one and once the 08s hit, the more shrewd/savy buyers will go make their offers. Basically the rich/famous/collectors have already got theirs, that is the good news. The rich famous collectors will have to start over to add a 2008 to their collections Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 The rich famous collectors will have to start over to add a 2008 to their collections And maybe a 2009! . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2008 Shelby Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 I definitely expect the ADM's to hang around for 2008. Dealers will be telling folks 2008 is the last year for the GT500 and thus the reason for the ADM. increased GGT + increase in MSRP + ADM = big $$$$$ for 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloy Dave Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 I definitely expect the ADM's to hang around for 2008. Dealers will be telling folks 2008 is the last year for the GT500 and thus the reason for the ADM. increased GGT + increase in MSRP + ADM = big $$$$$ for 2008 Where does it say the GG tax is increasing? I've been fighting this rumor for a long time. Lots of speculation, but no firm answer on this yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCMO-GT500 Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 Where does it say the GG tax is increasing? I've been fighting this rumor for a long time. Lots of speculation, but no firm answer on this yet. Dan If they handle it like they did the last time a mileage calculation change was made, there really should be no ggt increase. Best indicator of the future is the past...I think someone infamous said that, maybe a serial killer John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloy Dave Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 Dave - what do you think of the Caterpillar ACERT Engine Technology? HSURB Hsurb, sorry, I didn't see this question until just now. I don't know enough about ACERT to know how it works. Anything I say after that would be biased...so I'll stop there regarding Cat. I will say that I am proud of the stance my company has taken on meeting emissions requirements. We recently released a product that meets 2010 (Yes, that's 3 years from now), so in some markets we are ahead of the game. We see this as a competetive advantage. Regards, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtharmon633 Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 Several posts predicted a mid to late March PDF file release on the 08 GT500 specs. Does anyone have the scoop? TIA D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyDude Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 Several posts predicted a mid to late March PDF file release on the 08 GT500 specs. Does anyone have the scoop? TIAD Nothing posted yet that I could find. The only thing I could find is that the 08 order bank for mustang opens 4/16, scheduling begins 5/17, and job 1 date 6/25. 07 job 1 date was 6/5. So it looks like 08 will start 20 days later this year than last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckySnake Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 And maybe a 2009! . 2009 Boss sitting next to a 2007 GT500, would be pretty nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07Shelby#6200 Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 Basically the rich/famous/collectors have already got theirs, that is the good news. I never considered myself as rich and famous but %#&$ thank you! I think I did make the right move. Less gg tax $, 40th Anniversary, 1st year return in 2000, and still waiting for a car which means there are not cars sitting in lots collecting dust. Also, if you add item #971 which is a Ford "Cobra" cover it will appear on the sticker on the window. Just a little added collector item. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 2009 Boss sitting next to a 2007 GT500, would be pretty nice. :hyper: I'd be satisfied with just the Boss ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckySnake Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 :hyper: I'd be satisfied with just the Boss ;-)Thought you had one? The real deal just needing original engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 Thought you had one? The real deal just needing original engine? No ..wish I did ... hopin' for an H/Boss Boss 5.8 in '09 (dreamin'? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy23c Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 No ..wish I did ... hopin' for an H/Boss Boss 5.8 in '09 (dreamin'? ;-) Dan....I hate to say this....but I heard 2011. Not kidding. Not verified yet, but I heard it from someone "good". I got to check some more, though. Hang in there,man! PS- Has anyone heard anything else about the "Vapor Silver" Color? The only thing I heard was that it was kind of Tuuuuungsten-ish(or is that Tungsten-esque?). Not much of a description...and I am a big fan of the color silver. -AND....anything else about the interiors (changes, options besides 'mood lighting', etc) and possibility of a different color 'vert roof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Dan....I hate to say this....but I heard 2011. Not kidding. Not verified yet, but I heard it from someone "good". I got to check some more, though. Hang in there,man!PS- Has anyone heard anything else about the "Vapor Silver" Color? The only thing I heard was that it was kind of Tuuuuungsten-ish(or is that Tungsten-esque?). Not much of a description...and I am a big fan of the color silver. -AND....anything else about the interiors (changes, options besides 'mood lighting', etc) and possibility of a different color 'vert roof? Bummer, Chris! I was hoping the refresh would accommodate it ...well, as long as they do it right :devil: ...i.e. the H/Boss DOHC alloy version :hyper: Chris, check this out over at Brad's for info on Vapor -- pix too. It's being described elsewhere as a mix between silver and alloy with a hint of green. -Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy23c Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Bummer, Chris! I was hoping the refresh would accommodate it ...well, as long as they do it right :devil: ...i.e. the H/Boss DOHC alloy version :hyper: Chris, check this out over at Brad's for info on Vapor -- pix too. It's being described elsewhere as a mix between silver and alloy with a hint of green. -Dan On the bright side, Dan, you'll have more time to pool your money-- and odds are better it will be done right. Funny....about vapor...I had heard that it had a blue undertone- similar to Tungsten (with the purple undertone). If that's vapor, it will look strong on the GT500. Nice catch! I'm still wondering if Ford will offer a Tan interior & 'vert top to mimic '68. Not that I care..none of the colors I want would go with tan. I was more hoping for a lighter gray or a light gray insert (like the California Special) as 'vert interiors get really, really, REALLY hot in the summer when they are black. Worse case....IF I EVER GET ONE...I could get Katzkins seat covers with a lighter insert, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 yeah, I think the dark-only interior colors were a miss -- vert needs a light color. I've got to get a bigger piggybank -- not that the present one is full <lol> just planning ahead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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