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OK, I have had enough!


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I take the car out for a small cruise around my block tonight. I have a route next to my house thats 2 lanes each side and it runs straight for a little over 2 miles or so. Every once in a while I catch a small race. Tonight I find a couple people who want to have some fun, so I agree. Anyway, my point is exactly what some people have been saying on the "Tune" thread here. This rev limiter has to go! I have owned 11 Mustangs throughout my life. I remember being a teenager racing with my Fox body and revving out with just listening to the engine and never looking at the Tach. Now I noticed this first with my Shelby GT vert and then with my GT500 and now even worse with my KR. Just as I feel the car wants to let go, and when I feel I have to shift by listening, the car boggs down, putts along in an embarrassing fashion while my competition hears this and makes ground. Now I'm not racing to kill anyone. I like to punch it every once in a while. Maybe if it wasn't there I would have blown the motor, but I have had Mustangs for over 25 yrs and never blown a motor. This limiter not only boggs the car down but also makes me miss 3rd gear here and there. I have to get this Tune and hopefully bump it up a notch. It just feels like there is much more power to be had here.

Edited by Mustang_Scotty
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Without the rev limiter, that cat will climb until it blows. I know what you're saying though, I've owned 12 Mustangs, but these new cars aren't your father's 1970 Oldsmobile. The old cars would climb so high and that was it. These cars will keep climbing with the blower, way past the safe zone. Thank the man for your limiter, and your engine. :salute:

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I'm not saying I want to climb it till destruction. My 85,88,92,93,93,93,93 Mustangs winded out without a hitch. If the rev limiter is set at 6250 and the car boggs down just as I want to shift it, I guess I am right in the ballpark just by listening. It needs to be closer. This engine can take more than that!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Without the rev limiter, that cat will climb until it blows. I know what you're saying though, I've owned 12 Mustangs, but these new cars aren't your father's 1970 Oldsmobile. The old cars would climb so high and that was it. These cars will keep climbing with the blower, way past the safe zone. Thank the man for your limiter, and your engine. :salute:

 

Edited by Mustang_Scotty
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I take the car out for a small cruise around my block tonight. I have a route next to my house thats 2 lanes each side and it runs straight for a little over 2 miles or so. Every once in a while I catch a small race. Tonight I find a couple people who want to have some fun, so I agree. Anyway, my point is exactly what some people have been saying on the "Tune" thread here. This rev limiter has to go! I have owned 11 Mustangs throughout my life. I remember being a teenager racing with my Fox body and revving out with just listening to the engine and never looking at the Tach. Now I noticed this first with my Shelby GT vert and then with my GT500 and now even worse with my KR. Just as I feel the car wants to let go, and when I feel I have to shift by listening, the car boggs down, putts along in an embarrassing fashion while my competition hears this and makes ground. Now I'm not racing to kill anyone. I like to punch it every once in a while. Maybe if it wasn't there I would have blown the motor, but I have had Mustangs for over 25 yrs and never blown a motor. This limiter not only boggs the car down but also makes me miss 3rd gear here and there. I have to get this Tune and hopefully bump it up a notch. It just feels like there is much more power to be had here.

 

 

 

Oh sure, blame your mis shifts on the rev limiter...

 

:redcard:

 

 

:hide:

 

 

:peelout:

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Without the rev limiter, that cat will climb until it blows. I know what you're saying though, I've owned 12 Mustangs, but these new cars aren't your father's 1970 Oldsmobile. The old cars would climb so high and that was it. These cars will keep climbing with the blower, way past the safe zone. Thank the man for your limiter, and your engine. :salute:

 

 

 

I agree with Springer. These motors rev so quickly, I'm sure a lot of owners would be cussing their broken Ford if not for the rev limiter.

This begs the question (as alluded to by eagledriver) what is the true limit?

 

So now I ask everyone who has had theirs adjusted:

 

How high have you had your Rev limiter set and how long has the motor survived since it was adjusted ShelbyLt

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I take the car out for a small cruise around my block tonight. I have a route next to my house thats 2 lanes each side and it runs straight for a little over 2 miles or so. Every once in a while I catch a small race. Tonight I find a couple people who want to have some fun, so I agree. Anyway, my point is exactly what some people have been saying on the "Tune" thread here. This rev limiter has to go! I have owned 11 Mustangs throughout my life. I remember being a teenager racing with my Fox body and revving out with just listening to the engine and never looking at the Tach. Now I noticed this first with my Shelby GT vert and then with my GT500 and now even worse with my KR. Just as I feel the car wants to let go, and when I feel I have to shift by listening, the car boggs down, putts along in an embarrassing fashion while my competition hears this and makes ground. Now I'm not racing to kill anyone. I like to punch it every once in a while. Maybe if it wasn't there I would have blown the motor, but I have had Mustangs for over 25 yrs and never blown a motor. This limiter not only boggs the car down but also makes me miss 3rd gear here and there. I have to get this Tune and hopefully bump it up a notch. It just feels like there is much more power to be had here.

 

Call John lund tunes, You can PM me for the number, Ken

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OK, dumb question: on a stock KR motor what would be the therotical "destroyed" RPM limit? 8k? 8.5k? 9k?

 

 

the KR motor is the same as the standard GT500 motor and the rev limiter is there for a reason, unless your looking for a reason to build a new engine

Edited by GT500-07
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The no expert rationale. The rev limiter is there for a reason obviously, but I think Mustang Scotty means: Why is the rev limiter set at where the max powerband is? Since it's still pulling or just at the max at 6250, why limit it there? Ford being extra careful. I think a new custom tune and a slight bump up to 6350-6450 won't be a problem, many do it. To those that usually shift at 5800, which I do mostly, try shifting at a perfect 6200ish (without hitting the limiter), huge difference in power.

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Exactly.! I didn't mean get rid of it totally. Just needs to be bumped a touch and thats what the tune is going to do.

 

 

The no expert rationale. The rev limiter is there for a reason obviously, but I think Mustang Scotty means: Why is the rev limiter set at where the max powerband is? Since it's still pulling or just at the max at 6250, why limit it there? Ford being extra careful. I think a new custom tune and a slight bump up to 6350-6450 won't be a problem, many do it. To those that usually shift at 5800, which I do mostly, try shifting at a perfect 6200ish (without hitting the limiter), huge difference in power.

 

Edited by Mustang_Scotty
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The no expert rationale. The rev limiter is there for a reason obviously, but I think Mustang Scotty means: Why is the rev limiter set at where the max powerband is? Since it's still pulling or just at the max at 6250, why limit it there? Ford being extra careful. I think a new custom tune and a slight bump up to 6350-6450 won't be a problem, many do it. To those that usually shift at 5800, which I do mostly, try shifting at a perfect 6200ish (without hitting the limiter), huge difference in power.

 

 

The reason there is a rev limiter is because some parts won't take the stress of the maximum HP available with these engines. The engine will keep pulling while the rods, crank, valves, or whatever won't. A few hundred rpm's past the safe limit is a recipe for engine building 101 and if you've never been to that class, the tuition is rather expensive.

 

You might be able to squeak another two or three hundred rev's out of the engine, but it isn't worth the cost of admission.

Edited by springer
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OK, I have a question. Who it is that blew up their engine by reving it to 6500? My guess it it never happened. I think the rev limiter should be there for a gross mistake and allow the driver to chose where to shift. When I started racing a Camaro in the early 70's that was how we did things -- electronic controls were brand new and we trusted ourselves more than some bell and whistle on new Tach.

 

A 7500 rev limiter and a 6500 aiming point for shifts with the option to go to 7000 if youre losing a close race -- well... I think that is ideal. ALSO... When I want to push the brakes I don't want a computer telling me "no you don't get to use the brakes here because my software says you need steering instead." The right man can outperform antilock brakes every day of the week (I didn't say every man...but I sure can and I'll bet most of the guys here can too). Likewise I want to decide my shift points and not be overridden by a computer. Yet if the throttle sticks (floormat etc) then its nice to have a limiter until I can key off. Also if you've had the stock limiter cut in then you know its a bump in the ride and tell me its not hard on the hardware. I certainly think its worse than the split second and engine might spend between 6250 and 6500. Just my opinion. BTW if Ford could have gotten the 540HP rating at 5000 then I'm sure that is where my limiter would have been set and someone would have told me that 6000 will blow it up. Just my honest opinion. When I get my eveolution tuner and have a 7500 limiter I see if I ever need the extra rpm and if i do and if it blows up then I'll tell it here.

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At my track day last October, as I got faster and more familiar w/ the course and deepened my braking zones, I began to hit the rev limiter on the short straight in 3rd gear...it wouldn't have made since to shift at that point, so I just used the rev limiter as my braking point!

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Jbmerrillz has a good point. For those that have hit the rev limiter, it sure does bog the heck out of the car and can't be good for it. At max power you hit the rev limiter...just doesn't make sense, besides for Ford's sake (Ford were not perfect give us all our power with a few more hundred rpm before the limiter, quit tempting us to Mod! hysterical.gif ). That means I rarely have max power while banging unless I'm a lil lucky and shift perfectly at 6250. Now that's tough after beerchug.gif or boring.gif ............ hysterical2.gif

Edited by jsarkis
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My KR RPM has spun up so fast that if I didn't have the rev limiter, I would have blown the engine. Moving it up 200-300 rpm doesn't sound like a bad idea, but more RPM than that? The engine may take the high RPMs for awhile, but the engine will crap out a lot sooner then if you had just left it alone.

Also, it is obvious that the engineers limited the engine more than what it can take, that insures longevity, but I trust the engineers and SVT engine builders a lot more than myself and a lot of others on this forum....

Good Luck, you may even win a few races with the extra RPM

:lurk:

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At my track day last October, as I got faster and more familiar w/ the course and deepened my braking zones, I began to hit the rev limiter on the short straight in 3rd gear...it wouldn't have made since to shift at that point, so I just used the rev limiter as my braking point!

 

 

My point exactly... The rev limiter becomes a best E.T. limiter -- when you could have cut a better time but the computer stopped you. In that same moment... I want to CHOOSE where to shift and I believe that driving a car in good condition, without a lot of slop & slap, most people can cut better times than a computer controlled car and still not blow up the engine (or drivetrain).

Edited by jbmerrillz
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Jbmerrillz has a good point. For those that have hit the rev limiter, it sure does bog the heck out of the car and can't be good for it. At max power you hit the rev limiter...just doesn't make sense, besides for Ford's sake (Ford were not perfect give us all our power with a few more hundred rpm before the limiter, quit tempting us to Mod! hysterical.gif ). That means I rarely have max power while banging unless I'm a lil lucky and shift perfectly at 6250. Now that's tough after beerchug.gif or boring.gif ............ hysterical2.gif

 

 

GREAT POINT!!! Since we shift to avoid the limiter, we never utilize full power. Another reason to lose, right?

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I thought I read the rods, like in the 4.6, weren't high spin freindly....

 

 

I'm sure you are right. These are showroom traffic destined engines and they are not racing engines.

 

I guess I just think the rev limiter should be set higher and that protection of the engine is the driver's job after which the computer can back him up if a safety zone is violated but the computer should not close in enough to where it is making decisions that border on driving.

Edited by jbmerrillz
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OK, I have a question. Who it is that blew up their engine by reving it to 6500? My guess it it never happened. I think the rev limiter should be there for a gross mistake and allow the driver to chose where to shift. When I started racing a Camaro in the early 70's that was how we did things -- electronic controls were brand new and we trusted ourselves more than some bell and whistle on new Tach.

 

A 7500 rev limiter and a 6500 aiming point for shifts with the option to go to 7000 if youre losing a close race -- well... I think that is ideal. ALSO... When I want to push the brakes I don't want a computer telling me "no you don't get to use the brakes here because my software says you need steering instead." The right man can outperform antilock brakes every day of the week (I didn't say every man...but I sure can and I'll bet most of the guys here can too). Likewise I want to decide my shift points and not be overridden by a computer. Yet if the throttle sticks (floormat etc) then its nice to have a limiter until I can key off. Also if you've had the stock limiter cut in then you know its a bump in the ride and tell me its not hard on the hardware. I certainly think its worse than the split second and engine might spend between 6250 and 6500. Just my opinion. BTW if Ford could have gotten the 540HP rating at 5000 then I'm sure that is where my limiter would have been set and someone would have told me that 6000 will blow it up. Just my honest opinion. When I get my eveolution tuner and have a 7500 limiter I see if I ever need the extra rpm and if i do and if it blows up then I'll tell it here.

 

 

Set it where you want it and go out and smoke that bad boy. The real reason there are rev limiters is because

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  • 3 weeks later...

Set it where you want it and go out and smoke that bad boy. The real reason there are rev limiters is because

 

Dude I'm trying to share a VIEWPOINT HERE THAT MANY OTHERS MAY BENEFIT FROM just because you can't hit your desired shift points without help from a computer doesn't mean the rest of us have your slow reflexes. Most of us are more than quick enough to shift without a computer's help. I mean really... It your having so much trouble that you're worried about smoking engines without a tight rev limit then you need to buy an automatic and I'd recommend a 6 cylinder station wagon something with real low performance that won't scare you so much.

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I take the car out for a small cruise around my block tonight. I have a route next to my house thats 2 lanes each side and it runs straight for a little over 2 miles or so. Every once in a while I catch a small race. Tonight I find a couple people who want to have some fun, so I agree. Anyway, my point is exactly what some people have been saying on the "Tune" thread here. This rev limiter has to go! I have owned 11 Mustangs throughout my life. I remember being a teenager racing with my Fox body and revving out with just listening to the engine and never looking at the Tach. Now I noticed this first with my Shelby GT vert and then with my GT500 and now even worse with my KR. Just as I feel the car wants to let go, and when I feel I have to shift by listening, the car boggs down, putts along in an embarrassing fashion while my competition hears this and makes ground. Now I'm not racing to kill anyone. I like to punch it every once in a while. Maybe if it wasn't there I would have blown the motor, but I have had Mustangs for over 25 yrs and never blown a motor. This limiter not only boggs the car down but also makes me miss 3rd gear here and there. I have to get this Tune and hopefully bump it up a notch. It just feels like there is much more power to be had here.

 

I want to thank you for this thread and let you know that the best engineers and mechanics I can find a Los Alamos National Lab (true magicians of all mechanical) agree with you completely!! A few drove my car and did some research for us and basically most said that th KR isn't going to blow up over a good shift occasionally made at slightly above the stock rev limiter. Furthermore, other factors affect lifetime far more than that quite minimal time you might spend above 6250 a few times a year and actually a smooth shift at 6500 is easier than a slopy one at 6200 -- which can happen if you're rushing to beat the limiter. They also say Ford is running 5 weight oil (5w-50 for CAFE numbers ONLY (for higher mileage not longer wear) and that 5 weight is far from the best choice for longevity. They told me to run a at least 10 weight like Mobil 1 10W-30. So I talked to Mobil and guess what they said? ...they recommend 15 weight oil for the KR and you can all easily go to the Mobil 1 web site and jump through the questions and see for yourselves that they recommend 15 wieght. I plan to use a 10 weight like 10W-30 and I think I'll use Mobil 1 too. The limit may be set with the fact in mind that way to thin an oil is used in these engine specifically to get higher mileage numbers. So the guy that doesn't own a KR and yet lurks here jealously giving KR owners a hard time because we notice our rev limiter is kinda set funky and then tells us we will blow up our engines if we don't let a computer control our shifts.... well he probably doesn't really know much about the KR or its design criteria. I think we are on the right tract to take back control from the computer and then share with each other how much difference it makes and any issues that arrise, Well be a lot better of than listening to some jealous doomsayer.

Edited by jbmerrillz
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Dude I'm trying to share a VIEWPOINT HERE THAT MANY OTHERS MAY BENEFIT FROM just because you can't hit your desired shift points without help from a computer doesn't mean the rest of us have your slow reflexes. Most of us are more than quick enough to shift without a computer's help. I mean really... It your having so much trouble that you're worried about smoking engines without a tight rev limit then you need to buy an automatic and I'd recommend a 6 cylinder station wagon something with real low performance that won't scare you so much.

 

 

Really, I guess I shouldn't have dropped out of high school DUDE. You guys are funny and always give me a chuckle! :hysterical3:

 

Seriously though, what were you doing when you wrote this missive, neither I, nor other DUDE's have a clue what the message was meant for or intended. I guess it was meant for entertainment, as it did give me a laugh. :hysterical3:

Edited by springer
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I talked with Evolution today and asked specifically about a 93 octane tune for a stock KR. I was told that the stock engine setup is "really dumbed down" and that in stock condition wide open throttle is not allowed. With their tune wide open throttle will be available and yields a lot of improvement. I asked about 7500 for my rev limit and TCS OFF as the default. They said they won't do the TCS OFF because they a worried someone will forget to turn it on for rainy weather. He said he didn't think 7500 rev limit was something they could do yet a guy two weeks ago said it was OK. He did say that the generally do increase the rev limit because there is a significant amount of safe performance increase available above the stock limit. They seem to feel strongly that the stock tune is really a weak tune and a significant amount of safe performance increase can be had with a tune alone. On th 93 octane tune I asked for he said I should see about 60 more hp AT THE WHEELS and if I do a pulley too then a hundred at the wheels is possible. They also said a heat exchanger upgrade is necessary for a pulley change or you will have problems...

Edited by jbmerrillz
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