Clutch Toast???

[kpevin]

I have less then 10k

 

 

10k, 9K, doesnt matter. If the car had 800 miles on it then you could maybe argue defective parts or a saleman burning it up before you bought it but it has a good amount of miles on it. It would be very hard to get Ford, Chevy or Dodge to put a clutch in anything under warranty even if the car was 100% stock after 1000 miles unless it was an obvious part defect.

[Cdvision]

You could try going higher up the food chain to the regional service rep and see if there is anything that they are willing to do for you. Even if theyd split the bill with you that would help out a bit. Just remember to be cool with them and try to remain calm and pleasant. You always get further than if a guy gets confrontational. Good luck.

[blazeone]

10k, 9K, doesnt matter. If the car had 800 miles on it then you could maybe argue defective parts or a saleman burning it up before you bought it but it has a good amount of miles on it. It would be very hard to get Ford, Chevy or Dodge to put a clutch in anything under warranty even if the car was 100% stock after 1000 miles unless it was an obvious part defect.

 

 

Also, if the salesman burnt it up you would know it a LONG time ago. When clutches go they go fast.

[jsarkis]

Clutches are such a grey area with warranties because of all the variables that can cause failure. Then the fact it's classified as a normal wear item doesn't help. Unfortunately you gave Ford (or any manufacturer) an easy out of their warranty (not that you would of got it taken care of anyhow by Ford) by your mods. Back in 1989-90 with my first ride (69 ss camaro) I ended up around 600rwhp and went through clutches every 3-6k miles on the street. I tried all types and kinds of hurt your leg racing clutches. I know it's 2010, clutches should be bullet-proof by now, but I guess manufacturers make too much dough on em heh. Sorry for your pain and I'm sure the 2nd gear issues you had didn't help or maybe the tc also contributed. Probably a good time for some 12 ounce curls.

[Slabo]

Sorry about your dealer/Ford woes. Crazy thing is you can have the dealer install a Ford Racing TVS and get a 12 month, 12K mile warranty. More HP with a warranty. Makes their current claim seem ridiculous. I was wondering how long it would take for someone to burn up one of these new 2010 clutches. I guess we have our answer.

[bpmurr]

Sorry about your dealer/Ford woes. Crazy thing is you can have the dealer install a Ford Racing TVS and get a 12 month, 12K mile warranty. More HP with a warranty. Makes their current claim seem ridiculous. I was wondering how long it would take for someone to burn up one of these new 2010 clutches. I guess we have our answer.

 

 

Part of the problem is they don't want to warranty them at all since it's a wear item. I'm really confused by this situation. Like you said the TVS kit from Ford puts out more power yet my car with less power has a toasted clutch????

[2008vistablue]

The dealer is telling me Ford will not honor the warranty because of the pulley swap. The additional power has lead to the premature wear. I'm not sure what to do...

 

I bought this car last year because I believed strongly in Ford not taking bailout money. It was about a year too soon for me but I wanted to do something as an individual to help out Ford and the people who work there. It feld really good when I was contacted by someone on the niche line and get to put faces with my car. Now I have Ford looking for a quick out to save a buck on a long time and very loyal customer.

 

 

I would ask them why the sell bigger supercharger kits for these cars and don't require a clutch upgrade.....hmmm? Engineers typically design cars to handle more than what they throw at it so there should be some cushion......okay if that doesn't work why do they allow Shelby to upgrade w/o a clutch with more HP. It seems to me you got a bad one and they don't want to honor it. I'd make a video and put in on youtube about how crappy the clutches are and can't handle a few simples mods. Jezz its not like you threw an KB 3.6L supercharger on it.

[2010KonaBlueGT]

 

 

The first thing I'd like to add here is that everyone needs to listen to this guy (Kpevin). He knows of what he speaks...

 

I too have worked at a dealership but as a Tech, not a Warranty rep (however, my Daughter-in-law is one right now).

 

I've also worked as a Service Advisor (we were called Service writers back then), a dispatcher and a parts man so I know a little bit about the subject too.

 

Everything I've read that Kpevin wrote so far is 100% spot on.

 

It may be a "regular wear item" and they typically get replaced at ~30K miles so you got about 33% use out of your clutch. With the mods you claim you added, that VOIDS the Mfgr's responsibility right there.

 

And be careful because like Kpevin said, if they wanna be total assholes they WILL void your complete remaining warranty and they can do it legally (read your warranty verbage).

 

If I were you I'd be REAL NICE, plant my lips firmly on the Service Managers butt cheeks and see if they'll give you SOME kind of goodwill contribution towards the replacement of your clutch.

 

FWIW, they *could* give you the complete job under their goodwill policy but it sounds like that point is way past this point already anyway.

 

But it CAN NOT HURT TO ASK. That's what I've always told my customers. You're already being told "no" so the worst thing that could happen is they say "no" (again). You have absolutely nothing to loose and plenty to gain. Tossing threats around of getting district/regional/factory reps involved won't get you anywhere. You already screwed yourself when you admitted it has boost mods on it.

 

Service advisors can be your best friend.....or your WORST ENEMY. A bottle of his/her favorite booze never hurt anything either (seen it MANY times!!!).

 

I know that's not what you want to hear but I'm the second voice of (dealer) experience you're getting on this issue.

 

Frankly if it were mine, I would'a removed the mod and returned the tune back to OEM before I ever peeped a word of a problem to 'em. It's not fraud unless they ask if it had mods and you said no or if you told 'em before the fact that it was never mod'd. There's not a whole lot of argument that it would be 'dirty pool" but not "Fraud" until you defraud them by telling them something that isn't true (i.e. what they don't know won't hurt them).

 

 

Sorry to be the (2nd) bearer of bad news,

Phill Pollard

[blazeone]

Part of the problem is they don't want to warranty them at all since it's a wear item. I'm really confused by this situation. Like you said the TVS kit from Ford puts out more power yet my car with less power has a toasted clutch????

 

 

The 12 month TVS warranty does not cover the clutch.

 

IT'S A WEAR ITEM, LIKE BRAKE PADS AND TIRES.

[bpmurr]

The 12 month TVS warranty does not cover the clutch.

 

IT'S A WEAR ITEM, LIKE BRAKE PADS AND TIRES.

 

 

Brake pads are covered within 12 months or 18k

Wipers 12 months or 12k

 

The first thing I'd like to add here is that everyone needs to listen to this guy (Kpevin). He knows of what he speaks...

 

I too have worked at a dealership but as a Tech, not a Warranty rep (however, my Daughter-in-law is one right now).

 

I've also worked as a Service Advisor (we were called Service writers back then), a dispatcher and a parts man so I know a little bit about the subject too.

 

Everything I've read that Kpevin wrote so far is 100% spot on.

 

It may be a "regular wear item" and they typically get replaced at ~30K miles so you got about 33% use out of your clutch. With the mods you claim you added, that VOIDS the Mfgr's responsibility right there.

 

And be careful because like Kpevin said, if they wanna be total assholes they WILL void your complete remaining warranty and they can do it legally (read your warranty verbage).

 

If I were you I'd be REAL NICE, plant my lips firmly on the Service Managers butt cheeks and see if they'll give you SOME kind of goodwill contribution towards the replacement of your clutch.

 

FWIW, they *could* give you the complete job under their goodwill policy but it sounds like that point is way past this point already anyway.

 

But it CAN NOT HURT TO ASK. That's what I've always told my customers. You're already being told "no" so the worst thing that could happen is they say "no" (again). You have absolutely nothing to loose and plenty to gain. Tossing threats around of getting district/regional/factory reps involved won't get you anywhere. You already screwed yourself when you admitted it has boost mods on it.

 

Service advisors can be your best friend.....or your WORST ENEMY. A bottle of his/her favorite booze never hurt anything either (seen it MANY times!!!).

 

I know that's not what you want to hear but I'm the second voice of (dealer) experience you're getting on this issue.

 

Frankly if it were mine, I would'a removed the mod and returned the tune back to OEM before I ever peeped a word of a problem to 'em. It's not fraud unless they ask if it had mods and you said no or if you told 'em before the fact that it was never mod'd. There's not a whole lot of argument that it would be 'dirty pool" but not "Fraud" until you defraud them by telling them something that isn't true (i.e. what they don't know won't hurt them).

 

 

Sorry to be the (2nd) bearer of bad news,

Phill Pollard

 

 

 

I could go on. The point is I have been very nice with my service manager. It's not the dealer who is the problem, it's Ford saying they won't pay the claim. Hopefully the service manager can put me in touch with someone at Ford. I'm not an jerk about it at all, just trying to work with Ford as a longtime customer.

[ponyboy96]

I think as someone else posted, that you can ask if they can work with you on this. They could sell you to parts at cost and cut you a break on the labor. Seriously, do you think they pay those techs $100/hr? The part probably has a 100% mark-up as well. There's room for them to work with you on this and still make a buck.

[Son of GT]

How the dealer presents the case to Ford is also another major factor here. My clutch was replaced under the TSB TWICE from a dealer that I did not even buy my 500 from. They replaced it once at 18K, and again at 21K after the NEW TSB revision came out stating that other parts that weren't listed in the 1st TSB should also be replaced.

 

And all work was done AFTER my 500 was Super Snaked, so NOTHING is etched in stone. BP, I urge you to escalate this claim up the ladder. It's too late to take it to another dealer because the claim is now on file at Ford, but you should still fight Ford and the dealer citing that Ford Racing sells the TVS blower package that generates an additional 120 H.P. for the 2010 MY 500's, and while those blower packages must be installed by a Ford dealer or authroized Ford performance company like Shelby, Saleen, or Roush in order for the car to remain under warranty, their position that your blower and tune voilated the warranty because the additional H.P. burned up the clutch does not hold water, and that's also true about their claim that the stock 2010 clutch is not able to exceed the stock 540 H.P. too. And I know that's a complete LIE because I spoke to SVT several months ago about the 2010 clutch, and the SVT tech told me that the 2010 clutch was good for AT LEAST 800 H.P.

 

I have also written warranty claims for Ford, GM, and Chrysler, and absolutely know what the dealer can and cannot get away with when submitting a warranty claim. There are more than 50 TS members who have had their clutches replaced under warranty, and they all had much higher mileage on their cars than yours does.

 

Ask/tell your dealer to send the burnt up parts into SVT for closer, hands on inspection of the parts. Don't let them base their decision using just pictures alone, because a hands on inspection by an SVT engineer is much better than just someone looking at photos.

[2010KonaBlueGT]

How the dealer presents the case to Ford is also another major factor here.

 

That pretty much says it ALL.

 

 

Phill

[chuckstang]

wow just wow

 

This guy was honest, didnt remove his mod which absolutely had nothing to do with this clutch failing, only 10k miles on a new car still under bumper to bumper and some on here think he should have to pay for this!

 

 

It really disappoints me when other members do not stand behind each other, were a team here.

 

cough team shelby cough

[chuckstang]

I concerned that the issue with trying to shift into second that a lot of us have might have contributed to the premature wear.

 

This is absolutely 100% correct.

 

I believe all these issues are from a combination of clutch short commings and tranny issues.

[bpmurr]

wow just wow

 

This guy was honest, didnt remove his mod which absolutely had nothing to do with this clutch failing, only 10k miles on a new car still under bumper to bumper and some on here think he should have to pay for this!

 

 

It really disappoints me when other members do not stand behind each other, were a team here.

 

cough team shelby cough

 

 

I appreciate the support. Between all of the different sites I've posted on the support has been positive for the most part. There is a concern in the Mustang community about Ford not doing anything to help in this situation.

 

My concerns are the following.

 

Was there something wrong with my clutch?

What lead to the accelerated wear? I don't buy the additional power excuse.

If I get another unit will I be in again in 9500 miles? What kind of power is it rated for?

Is Ford going to try and use the pulley to try and void just about everything if something happens to the car?

Does Ford not car about longterm repeat customers who are very loyal to the brand?

[jsarkis]

A great mod shop in Houston, Fastlane said the 2010 is much stronger than the previous model clutch. They said it could handle 800+ rwhp. I asked because of your issue and they thought most likely mechanical error or user error. They also mentioned what my ford tech bud said to keep Off TC. I really doubt your mods caused the premature failure, but your mods gave Ford such an easy out of their warranty. So Ford probably didn't look into the real issue hard enough.

 

Trust me I'm not defending Ford when I say the following and it's probably not well written out and might be off on a fact or so, just my experience:

I'm positive Ford or any car manufacturer wants long-term repeat customers, but you have to think about the business side of this.

 

Manufacturers have warranties with exclusions for a reason. They have to draw a line with normal wear items as far as warranty goes. Their warranty states 1 year / 12,000 miles with clutches and yours failed at about 10,000 miles. Ford clearly states that most mods will neglect your warranty if these after market mods could contribute to the issue. Your clutch was pretty close to being out of warranty anyhow, should it of failed this early, No way. Should you of returned the tune & pulley to stock if you expected this to be covered? Yes no question. These car manufacturers can't risk their profit margins by letting their expensive engines, powertrains etc. be "custom tuned" or after market modded because they have No Control over the process. Especially away from their shops etc. and be expected to cover the warranty for those parts the mods could effect. Especially on high perfomance cars.

 

These manufacturers' engineers design these cars with tons of r&d etc. Most of us buy these cars stock, and they want you to keep it that way so they can protect their Profit margins by not having many warranty claims (ie conservative tune, no traction). Then us adrenaline junkies go to a local shop to mod our car or wrench on aftermarket parts ourselves like custom canned tunes etc. Now something goes wrong and we expect them to still honor the stock warrany for a normal wear item when the car has aftermarket parts and custom tune?

 

Think of this: We receive these cars that get very little traction in stock form (maybe their engineered like this for a reason for less wear and tear on the powertrain?). Then we (adrenaline junkies) widen our rims / get larger rims, throw on drag radials, UCA LCA, relocation brackets, drop the car add panhard bar yada yada and it hooks like glue. When we now "Hook Up" do you think we might of went beyond the capabilities of what the stock car and it's parts was engineered to handle ie driveshaft etc.?

 

This is how most manufacturers are these days about warranties unfortunately. Their lawyers draw a line with the exclusions and the larger the company (like ford or car companies) the more of a boiler plate procedure warranty issues become. They have a broad stoke because their so large. Hopefully you can get the dealership to work with you on your parts and install. I didn't mean to offend you if I did, I was just trying to help you look at both sides. I know I'd be having trouble keeping my cool to. Like others said a lot has to do with the dealership and how they present it to Ford.

[bpmurr]

A great mod shop in Houston, Fastlane said the 2010 is much stronger than the previous model clutch. They said it could handle 800+ rwhp. I asked because of your issue and they thought most likely mechanical error or user error. They also mentioned what my ford tech bud said to keep Off TC. I really doubt your mods caused the premature failure, but your mods gave Ford such an easy out of their warranty. So Ford probably didn't look into the real issue hard enough.

 

Trust me I'm not defending Ford when I say the following and it's probably not well written out and might be off on a fact or so, just my experience:

I'm positive Ford or any car manufacturer wants long-term repeat customers, but you have to think about the business side of this.

 

Manufacturers have warranties with exclusions for a reason. They have to draw a line with normal wear items as far as warranty goes. Their warranty states 1 year / 12,000 miles with clutches and yours failed at about 10,000 miles. Ford clearly states that most mods will neglect your warranty if these after market mods could contribute to the issue. Your clutch was pretty close to being out of warranty anyhow, should it of failed this early, No way. Should you of returned the tune & pulley to stock if you expected this to be covered? Yes no question. These car manufacturers can't risk their profit margins by letting their expensive engines, powertrains etc. be "custom tuned" or after market modded because they have No Control over the process. Especially away from their shops etc. and be expected to cover the warranty for those parts the mods could effect. Especially on high perfomance cars.

 

These manufacturers' engineers design these cars with tons of r&d etc. Most of us buy these cars stock, and they want you to keep it that way so they can protect their Profit margins by not having many warranty claims (ie conservative tune, no traction). Then us adrenaline junkies go to a local shop to mod our car or wrench on aftermarket parts ourselves like custom canned tunes etc. Now something goes wrong and we expect them to still honor the stock warrany for a normal wear item when the car has aftermarket parts and custom tune?

 

Think of this: We receive these cars that get very little traction in stock form (maybe their engineered like this for a reason for less wear and tear on the powertrain?). Then we (adrenaline junkies) widen our rims / get larger rims, throw on drag radials, UCA LCA, relocation brackets, drop the car add panhard bar yada yada and it hooks like glue. When we now "Hook Up" do you think we might of went beyond the capabilities of what the stock car and it's parts was engineered to handle ie driveshaft etc.?

 

This is how most manufacturers are these days about warranties unfortunately. Their lawyers draw a line with the exclusions and the larger the company (like ford or car companies) the more of a boiler plate procedure warranty issues become. They have a broad stoke because their so large. Hopefully you can get the dealership to work with you on your parts and install. I didn't mean to offend you if I did, I was just trying to help you look at both sides. I know I'd be having trouble keeping my cool to. Like others said a lot has to do with the dealership and how they present it to Ford.

 

 

I understand both sides to a certain extent. Can you tell we where it says there is a 12 month 12,000 mile warranty on the clutch? Is this coming from the supplier? The bottom line is it shouldn't have failed so early. Ford simply dismissing it because of some pictures of my pulley isn't benefiting any side.

[bpmurr]

I did some more research and it says just the clutch lining is a wear item. The rest of the clutch should be covered under the 60k power train warranty. I'm throughly confused at the moment.

[DDT]

If it can be shown that the Flywheel or the Pressure Plate Warping from heat or otherwise

caused the failure and not the clutch plate wear item than it has to be Warranty.........................

[chuckstang]

eager to find out why it failed.

 

I know you had bad luck but when you replace your clutch I would have someone throughly look over your car and then still replace with a factory 2010 clutch, IMO you wont be happy otherwise

[2010KonaBlueGT]

If it can be shown that the Flywheel or the Pressure Plate Warping from heat or otherwise

caused the failure and not the clutch plate wear item than it has to be Warranty.........................

 

 

The problem is, he modified the car and they are saying the mod. is what caused the wear/problem with the PP and flywheel.

 

It's pretty clear from the picture that the friction disc is not worn out. It looks to me like he PP failed.

 

But they're saying it's because it was overpowered by the increase in Compressor boost.

 

 

They have him by the nuts,

Phill

[bpmurr]

The problem is, he modified the car and they are saying the mod. is what caused the wear/problem with the PP and flywheel.

 

It's pretty clear from the picture that the friction disc is not worn out. It looks to me like he PP failed.

 

But they're saying it's because it was overpowered by the increase in Compressor boost.

 

 

They have him by the nuts,

Phill

 

 

I've had a couple of mechanics I know look at just the pics. They all are saying the additional power from the pulley swap is BS. Something was wrong with the clutch to have it fail so soon. I can't wait to deal with Ford again next week. No way in hell I'm putting another stock clutch bad in unless it's under warranty. I can't be swapping them out every 9500 miles.

[2010KonaBlueGT]

I've had a couple of mechanics I know look at just the pics. They all are saying the additional power from the pulley swap is BS.

 

 

I agree with them 1000%.

 

I am a ASE Certified Master Tech so you can tell your dealer that you had a ASE Master Tech give you the same opinion, the modification was NOT the issue. A bad pressure plate is. The PP is what provides the CLAMPING FORCE and that is clearly what the issue is, lack of clamping force.

 

 

Phill Pollard

[bpmurr]

I talked to the service manager again today. He said that he talked to two people at the plant. They both said from the pictures they can't see anything wrong with the clutch other then it being burnt up. In fact they don't even want the unit back now for review. He is going to update his log and then I have a contact info at Ford to speak with tomorrow. Hopefully Ford Corporate can work with me.

[bpmurr]

Amazing how the clutch all the sudden handles more power then I'm putting down as long as Ford does a supercharger upgrade.

 

"Super Packs (2005-2009 MY: M-6066-M463V, M-6066-M463P, M-6066-M463V7, M-6066-

M463P7, M-6066-M463V8, M-6066-M463P8, M-6066-SGT; 2010 MY: M-6066-MGT400C, M-

6066-MGT400PC, M-6066-MSVTA) are warranted for factory-supplied material or

workmanship beginning upon dealer installation and registration of the Ford Racing Super

Pack with Ford Racing and ends at either 12 months/12,000 miles (whichever occurs first).

Installation must occur prior to the vehicle reaching either 36 months/36,000 miles (whichever

occurs first) from the beginning of the manufacturer's New Vehicle Limited Warranty. This

Limited Warranty replaces the existing manufacture's New Vehicle Limited Warranty for

engine, driveline and suspension parts when a concern is triggered by a warranted Ford

Racing Super Pack. All engine, driveline and suspension warranty issues not related to

installation of Ford Racing Super Pack remain subject to existing manufacturer's New Vehicle

Limited Warranty.

• 400 HP and 475 HP Super Packs are only warranted when dealer installed on

Mustang GT 4.6L engines.

• 6005HP and 650 HP Super Packs are only warranted when dealer installed on

Shelby GT500 5.4L engines."

[dbrisson]

Good luck, which dealer has it Taneytown?

[bpmurr]

Good luck, which dealer has it Taneytown?

 

 

Yup Crouse in Taneytown MD. The dealer has been great. It's just Ford pushing back hard on the claim.

[blown5.4]

Sorry about your problem BPmurr. I remember you from another forum and you seem very sensible person. I believe what ford is telling you is bs , and I wouldn't take no for an answer. This is a $50,000 dollar performance car that should be able to handle a slight mod without burning up clutches with less than 10,000 miles on it. This really saddens me to see ford not helping you out with this problem. I too bought my 2010 GT500 because it appeared that ford had their ducks in a row and was on track to do the right thing. I hope you keep us informed of the status of the repair. This could very well push my next purchase away from ford. I'm currently looking at buying a truck and would like to think that what I'm buying is something that ford will stand behind. Your problem has caused me to lose confidence in my own GT500. Now I feel that I must baby it so nothing with break. I bought this car because they are supposed to be pretty built proof. I just might have trade on a vette at the end of the year.

[bpmurr]

Sorry about your problem BPmurr. I remember you from another forum and you seem very sensible person. I believe what ford is telling you is bs , and I wouldn't take no for an answer. This is a $50,000 dollar performance car that should be able to handle a slight mod without burning up clutches with less than 10,000 miles on it. This really saddens me to see ford not helping you out with this problem. I too bought my 2010 GT500 because it appeared that ford had their ducks in a row and was on track to do the right thing. I hope you keep us informed of the status of the repair. This could very well push my next purchase away from ford. I'm currently looking at buying a truck and would like to think that what I'm buying is something that ford will stand behind. Your problem has caused me to lose confidence in my own GT500. Now I feel that I must baby it so nothing with break. I bought this car because they are supposed to be pretty built proof. I just might have trade on a vette at the end of the year.

 

 

I talked with Ford Customer Service. They can't do anything as they said SVT denied the claim as well as the regional rep. The dealer won't request them to examine the part. They either will sell me the part at cost plus labor for a total of $1207.00 or leave the car outside for me to pickup and I can have a rollback come and get it.

 

I'm not sure what to do at this point. I don't want to put another stock clutch back in if it's going to fail like that. Nobody at Ford seems to give a damn.