Jump to content
TEAM SHELBY FORUM

No more pretitle Shelbys?


AFBLUE

Recommended Posts

I read in a Public release that Shelby American will concentrate on post title cars. Does this mean they are out of the pre-title business altogether?

 

If so, I would image that might make the SGT and KR (did I miss any pre title SAI products?) more unique. i.e. no future pretitle SGTs.

 

Not trying to start any "us" vs. them stuff...just wondering if this is indeed the case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 61
  • Created
  • Last Reply

AF - I think your are right on. The pretitle cars are just another competition to FORD and why compete with Shelby when they can have him as an associate and friend? It is simple, they will not. FORD will probably never make another pretitled Shelby ever again and the gt-h, sgt and the kr were most likely the last to get pretitle certification.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Troublemaker...lol :poke:

 

I guess I should have been more precise as all GT500s are pretitle Shelbys :) ...I meant pretitle SAI/Shelby American Shelbys (the vegas ones)

Also, I was reading another thread that the GT-H cars are not considered post-title cars. http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/index.php?/topic/54107-for-sale-rarest-2008-gt500-vertstripe-delete/page__view__findpost__p__927656

 

 

 

So that just leaves:

5632 2007 SGTs(not sure if this is the official total)

2214 2008 SGTs,

1011 2008 GT500KRs (not sure if this is official total)

712 2009 GT500KRs (again not sure if these KR numbers are the official numbers)

 

~9569 pre title Shelbys made at SAI between 2007 and 2009.

Will anymore be made in the future or is this the end of an era?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess I should have been more precise as all GT500s are pretitle Shelbys smile.gif ...I meant pretitle SAI/Shelby American Shelbys (the vegas ones)

Also, I was reading another thread that the GT-H cars are not considered post-title cars. http://www.teamshelb...post__p__927656

 

 

 

So that just leaves:

5632 2007 SGTs(not sure if this is the official total)

2214 2008 SGTs,

1011 2008 GT500KRs (not sure if this is official total)

712 2009 GT500KRs (again not sure if these KR numbers are the official numbers)

 

~9569 pre title Shelbys made at SAI between 2007 and 2009.

Will anymore be made in the future or is this the end of an era?

 

Unless a miracle happens in the future, there will be no more pre-title programs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmmm...Well it was a great run and an exciting time...glad I was able to purchase one of these cars new.

 

 

 

Agreed!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is correct that the GT-H's are actually post title cars. The black Mustang GT's were checked and signed off on by a Hertz emplolyee upon arrival in Las Vegas. The cars were purchased and owned by Hertz from Ford. Hertz paid Shelby directly for the conversion to a GT-H model. That is just a part of how the entire program was made to work so quickly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just for a historic comparison of the 2007-2009 timeframe at SAI:

 

There were 6165 Shelby Mustangs built from 1965-1967 at the Shelby American Facility in Los Angeles.

An additional 7604 1968-70 Shelby Mustangs were built in the A.O. Smith facility in Ionia, Michigan...all of them pre-title Shelbys

http://www.karmustang.com/production_numbers_s_table.php

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I may have misunderstood, but I think Roger Sorel said, during the SA plant tour at the time of this years Vegas NASCAR race, that the Shelby GT's and KR's are the only "pre-title" Shelby Mustangs ever constructed, and that all of the Shelby Mustang's of the 60's were actually "post-title" cars. I was surprised to hear this, but maybe my hearing is not so good.

 

Maybe Roger can confirm!

 

In any event, ,this does indeed add a special recognition to our cars.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think, given the amount of unsold pre-title cars still on lots and the amount of time it took to sell them that no one is in a real hurry to do more, at least right now. Also, post title allows Shelby more flexibility in how the cars can be modified as they don't have to meet the same standards in all 50 states I believe. What's tough is that not everyone can come up with the extra money to modify a car into a post-title where a pre-title you could finance the whole amount at the time of sale.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I may have misunderstood, but I think Roger Sorel said, during the SA plant tour at the time of this years Vegas NASCAR race, that the Shelby GT's and KR's are the only "pre-title" Shelby Mustangs ever constructed, and that all of the Shelby Mustang's of the 60's were actually "post-title" cars. I was surprised to hear this, but maybe my hearing is not so good.

 

Maybe Roger can confirm!

 

In any event, ,this does indeed add a special recognition to our cars.

 

 

I think you misundestood him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmmm...Well it was a great run and an exciting time...glad I was able to purchase one of these cars new.

 

Mark,

 

Good to see you on TS again. It was an exciting time and a lot of us remember all that you went through to get your car while you were serving our country. In the end you saw it through and, honestly, we all let out a sigh of relief when it all worked out for you.

 

Now for true confessions time. Is it true that some TS members, in recognition of your service to our country, tried to pay for your SAI pre-title modifications and you, while touched by the gesture, wanted to pay for everything yourself? That was the story I heard (there was alcohol involved and that is why I report it only as a story).

 

In any event, seems like a long time ago now, does it not?

 

Jim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I may have misunderstood, but I think Roger Sorel said, during the SA plant tour at the time of this years Vegas NASCAR race, that the Shelby GT's and KR's are the only "pre-title" Shelby Mustangs ever constructed, and that all of the Shelby Mustang's of the 60's were actually "post-title" cars. I was surprised to hear this, but maybe my hearing is not so good.

 

Maybe Roger can confirm!

 

In any event, ,this does indeed add a special recognition to our cars.

 

Back in the 1960's these cars had Shelby VIN #s because Shelby American was manufacturer (having its own VIN#).

 

For these 1960s cars to be post-titled, wouldn't Ford have to sell them to Shelby American first, then Shelby converts them and sells them as Shelbys under his own Manufacture Statement of Origin (MSO). Kinda like Ford selling the black mustangs to Hertz before they were converted to GT-H.

 

I'm not sure how the titling worked back in the 1960s.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I may have misunderstood, but I think Roger Sorel said, during the SA plant tour at the time of this years Vegas NASCAR race, that the Shelby GT's and KR's are the only "pre-title" Shelby Mustangs ever constructed, and that all of the Shelby Mustang's of the 60's were actually "post-title" cars. I was surprised to hear this, but maybe my hearing is not so good.

 

Maybe Roger can confirm!

 

In any event, ,this does indeed add a special recognition to our cars.

 

 

Roger stated the opposite on a KR thread some time ago, he said the GT-H's were pre-title :headscratch:

As for the 60's Shelby's, try making that statement on the SAAC forum :lurk:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mark,

Now for true confessions time. Is it true that some TS members, in recognition of your service to our country, tried to pay for your SAI pre-title modifications and you, while touched by the gesture, wanted to pay for everything yourself? That was the story I heard (there was alcohol involved and that is why I report it only as a story).

 

In any event, seems like a long time ago now, does it not?

 

Jim

 

 

I mentioned this when it happened, in this post on my trip to SAI in Nov 2007

http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/index.php?/topic/23164-afblue-trip-notes/page__view__findpost__p__336849

There is one last thing. John and Bud both informed me that certain members on here wanted to pay for my modifications as a way of showing their support for the troops. I immediately said I wanted a supercharger, baer brakes, and every other option available from the mod shop. I easily spent $20K. Thanks guys .

No seriously, I didn't know what to do at first, I was very touched by this offer and didn't want to offend. John said to think about it and so I did. I decided that I couldn't accept it. But I do want to thank these folks for their ernest desire to want to support their US service members. Just telling every service member you see "thanks for your service" is payment enough. I really do appreciate the thought.

 

I appreciate the offer and sentiment behind that generous offer... If only I had ordered the supercharger then it would have been more tempting to say "yes let them pay for all the mods" ;) :D. Just kidding

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As for the 60's Shelby's, try making that statement on the SAAC forum :lurk:

 

Those 1960s cars are just "Shelby American" made Shelbys. Everyone knows the "Shelby Automobile Inc. (SAI)" Shelbys are much more exclusive :hysterical:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read in a Public release that Shelby American will concentrate on post title cars. Does this mean they are out of the pre-title business altogether?

 

If so, I would image that might make the SGT and KR (did I miss any pre title SAI products?) more unique. i.e. no future pretitle SGTs.

 

Not trying to start any "us" vs. them stuff...just wondering if this is indeed the case.

 

 

 

The case for "pre-title" vs "post title" comes down to costs. On pre-title cars who pays for the daily depreciation of the cars until they reach the first retail customer? The financing costs would be very high, especially as volumn goes up, and would have to be paid during the time it takes to make the Mustang to Shelby transformation. On post-title cars it's pretty simple, the retail owner would be paying once the car is ordered from Ford. Ford dealers have contractual arrangments that clearly states who pays for the car while it sits un-sold on the dealer lot. The same was true with GTHs, Hertz ordered the cars equipped a specific way( in a similar manner to the new GT-350s are ordered by the buyer) and then a contract dictated who (Ford-Hertz-Shelby or combination) paid for the cars up until delivery to Hertz. During these tough financial times it's unlikely any company wants to eat the costs while the Mustang undergoes it's transformation into a Shelby. So, I would guess we've seen the last of "Pre-Title" cars for a while. Just one person's thoughts, regards, Larry

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The case for "pre-title" vs "post title" comes down to costs. On pre-title cars who pays for the daily depreciation of the cars until they reach the first retail customer? The financing costs would be very high, especially as volumn goes up, and would have to be paid during the time it takes to make the Mustang to Shelby transformation. On post-title cars it's pretty simple, the retail owner would be paying once the car is ordered from Ford. Ford dealers have contractual arrangments that clearly states who pays for the car while it sits un-sold on the dealer lot. The same was true with GTHs, Hertz ordered the cars equipped a specific way( in a similar manner to the new GT-350s are ordered by the buyer) and then a contract dictated who (Ford-Hertz-Shelby or combination) paid for the cars up until delivery to Hertz. During these tough financial times it's unlikely any company wants to eat the costs while the Mustang undergoes it's transformation into a Shelby. So, I would guess we've seen the last of "Pre-Title" cars for a while. Just one person's thoughts, regards, Larry

 

Thanks for your insightful post Larry. Based on how long many SGTs stayed on the lots, I can see why pre-title would be more popular from the dealer perspective.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only upside of pre-title cars for the dealers/ford (in my opinion) was potential increased traffic in the showroom, a lot of people that can't afford a shelby still wanted to check them out, and wow, look at the deal on that fusion/taurus/f150/etc...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only upside of pre-title cars for the dealers/ford (in my opinion) was potential increased traffic in the showroom, a lot of people that can't afford a shelby still wanted to check them out, and wow, look at the deal on that fusion/taurus/f150/etc...

 

 

 

Totally agree, dealers want to increase "foot traffic" any way they can, especially in this gloomy economy. The GT-500 fills that role. I've noticed several larger performance oriented Ford dealers in Florida even purchased used 40th, KRs, and Super Snakes, placing them on the showroom floor. Great hook to buy the new $35,000 Mustang GT instead of a $50,000 plus Shelby specialty cars. My local Ford dealer in Mt. Dora, Fl (Prestige Ford) even had a nice Used 2010 GT-500 on his showroom floor. "Used" is in, even for the regular Ford line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, technically speaking, the 2009 KR is the last pre-titled Shelby to date ?

 

That's the case from what I've been told.

 

Yep, I need to get me one of those KR's...............................are you listening Marji.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

pre-title means modified while ford still owns the car, and sold afterwards. ie part of fords model line up.

 

Just to follow up on this point:

The SGT and GT500KR had Ford Press releases associated with them and were considered part of the Ford line of products.

DEARBORN, Mich., Aug. 13, 2006 Today, Ford debuts the all-new 2007 Ford Shelby GT through a behind-the-scenes look at the high-performance Mustangs development on its Bold Moves: The Future of Ford web-based documentary (FordBoldMoves.com). On Wednesday, Ford confirmed production of the Shelby GT as one of 9 new product introductions coming in the next 6 months for Ford and Lincoln Mercury...Our goal is to offer a steed for every need, says John Felice, Ford brand general marketing manager..The new Shelby GT is a low-volume, extremely collectable Mustang for enthusiasts. It also offers a few more customers the opportunity to experience firsthand magic of Mustang and Carroll Shelby...The Shelby GT is the third modern Shelby Mustang produced through a collaboration of Ford and Shelby Automobiles

http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=24010

 

Shelby Mustang Magic. The 2008 Ford Shelby GT convertible and 2008 Ford Shelby GT500KR the most powerful production Ford Mustang ever produced complete the modern Shelby Mustang lineup.

https://media.ford.com/press_kits_detail.cfm?presskit_id=1612&item_id=5040&press_section_id=2870'>https://media.ford.com/press_kits_detail.cfm?presskit_id=1612&item_id=5040&press_section_id=2870'>https://media.ford.com/press_kits_detail.cfm?presskit_id=1612&item_id=5040&press_section_id=2870'>https://media.ford.com/press_kits_detail.cfm?presskit_id=1612&item_id=5040&press_section_id=2870

 

Best I can tell Ford treats post-title Shelbys differently...I searched https://media.ford.com for the new GT350 and found nothing on that subect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just to follow up on this point:

The SGT and GT500KR had Ford Press releases associated with them and were considered part of the Ford line of products.

 

http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=24010

 

 

https://media.ford.com/press_kits_detail.cfm?presskit_id=1612&item_id=5040&press_section_id=2870'>https://media.ford.com/press_kits_detail.cfm?presskit_id=1612&item_id=5040&press_section_id=2870'>https://media.ford.com/press_kits_detail.cfm?presskit_id=1612&item_id=5040&press_section_id=2870

 

Best I can tell Ford treats post-title Shelbys differently...I searched https://media.ford.com for the new GT350 and found nothing on that subect.

 

 

the GT350 is not part of the Ford product line like the SGT and KR were

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I may have misunderstood, but I think Roger Sorel said, during the SA plant tour at the time of this years Vegas NASCAR race, that the Shelby GT's and KR's are the only "pre-title" Shelby Mustangs ever constructed, and that all of the Shelby Mustang's of the 60's were actually "post-title" cars. I was surprised to hear this, but maybe my hearing is not so good.

 

Maybe Roger can confirm!

 

In any event, ,this does indeed add a special recognition to our cars.

 

 

We heard that also during the tour.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a very interesting thread. I enjoyed reading all the posts very much.

A little info on the new gen. Shelby's vs. Vintage Shelby's Pre and Post title confusion.

 

New Gen.

The only pre title Shelby is the GT500. This is not opinion, this is what it is. It left the factory as a Shelby Mustang.

Every mustang that is converted by Shelby is a MUSTANG. The vin # when checked will only show a MUSTANG.Just look at your title and registration. It will not show a Shelby mustang. All these modern Shelby's (GT-H,GT,KR,SS,ect...) are post title. They never recieve a Shelby specific Vin# either....except GT500. They do however recieve a manufacturing sequence # from Shelby. This is a post title alteration. Much like a tuner company like Saleen ,Roush, ect....

The vin # when checked on a GT500 will show a Shelby Mustang.Your title and reg. will show mustang BUT the vin# shows Shelby when checked. This is a true pre title Shelby.

Do not get me wrong, Shelby obviously keeps a record of Ford vins converted by them.

 

Vintage Shelby's (65-67) on the other hand were ONCE Ford Mustangs with a Specific Ford vin# MSO to Shelby American but became a Shelby American product altogether. 68-70 Shelby's were titled as Ford Mustang but carried a Shelby Specific vin#.

Shelby American was a DIFFERENT COMPANY BACK THEN. What I mean by that is Shelby was involved with racing. This was the heart of Shelby American. Besides the Cobra and Gt40 later on Ford used Carroll to put the mustang on the map and he did in a big way!!!

 

Today Shelby is different. The cars we have today are riding on the coat tails of Carroll Shelby's History and I think it's wonderful.

 

 

 

Now I do understand that Ford did Promo the Shelby GT and KR ( the KR Vin will show a Shelby GT500)but these are post title alterations. Keep in mind that once a vehicle is built and leaves the factory it leaves with it's title. Anything done from there is post title. It does not matter if a car was sent to Shelby directly from Ford. This is still a post title alteration that Ford and Shelby have an agreement (contract)to do. ie......Roush.

 

The Gt-H was purchased by the Hertz corp. for conversion by Shelby. These cars left Ford as Black Mustang GT with premium interiors. That's it. Now this was a fantastic agreement with Ford,Hertz and Shelby. These cars were titled to Hertz. Corp. as Black Ford Mustangs. By the way I never refer to my GT-H as a mustang.......It's a Shelby and I do correct people when they call it it a Mustang.

I love telling them it's a Shelby.

 

Then there's the my car went to Vegas argument and the GT500 never saw the insides of Shelby American argument.

That's one road I won't go down anymore.

Shelby owner's get very territorial about that stuff............even me somtimes...LOL

 

I do love these cars and I do love to see the forums hopping with enthusiasts!!! It's great isn't it!

Shelby is back in a big way and I could not be happier about that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...
...