kahmann Posted May 11, 2010 Report Share Posted May 11, 2010 While trying to tighten the positive lug on my battery last night, I arced the wrench against the stud that holds the battery down in the trunk. Lights out right away and I've got no power beyond the fuse box. The battery is still showing 12.9V. I've checked all of the small fuses in the fuse box for breaks and they all look fine. Anyone know where else to look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blownsgt Posted May 11, 2010 Report Share Posted May 11, 2010 did you look in the other box in the passenger kick panel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmn444 Posted May 11, 2010 Report Share Posted May 11, 2010 I'm not going to be helpful here, but seems like a good spot to offer a reminder for everybody to take off rings and watches while working around batteries... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroDan Posted May 11, 2010 Report Share Posted May 11, 2010 did you look in the other box in the passenger kick panel? This. You might also disconnect, wait an hour (or so) re-connect and try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted May 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2010 I did look at the kick panel fuses yeah. That one seems to be small fuses though too and they looked fine. Since everything seems to be without power, I figured it would be a much larger fuse and hoping that maybe it was tucked somewhere other than the 2 fuse boxes, since I've looked at everything there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroDan Posted May 11, 2010 Report Share Posted May 11, 2010 I did look at the kick panel fuses yeah. That one seems to be small fuses though too and they looked fine. Since everything seems to be without power, I figured it would be a much larger fuse and hoping that maybe it was tucked somewhere other than the 2 fuse boxes, since I've looked at everything there. My earlier post and use a multi-meter to check the fuses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKE@KENNEBELL Posted May 11, 2010 Report Share Posted May 11, 2010 I think you may need to check for a fuseable link. Not positive but I think it is right off the battery cable. Close to the post. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glroy Posted May 11, 2010 Report Share Posted May 11, 2010 I'm not going to be helpful here, but seems like a good spot to offer a reminder for everybody to take off rings and watches while working around batteries... attach positive first always Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aonebadbone Posted May 11, 2010 Report Share Posted May 11, 2010 attach positive first always Ya what he said. Unless you have to replace you're battery there is no need to remove the positive terminal just the negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted May 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2010 ^I did replace the battery, after moving it to the trunk. The battery has been disconnected for months. That's not my issue. My issue is that I didn't tighten the positive first before hooking the ground up. But there's nothing I can do about that now. Now, my problem is restoring power. I have cycled the battery, letting it sit for awhile then hooking it back up, but that's made no difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rush_junky Posted May 11, 2010 Report Share Posted May 11, 2010 I would try a different battery even though you're reading some voltage. Otherwise, a fuseable link makes sense. I find it hard to believe that a safety measure didn't trigger. I'm sorry to hear about this Ken ! Good Luck !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted May 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2010 ^Probably a good idea, just to rule it out. I'll give it a try when I get home tonight. Otherwise, I guess I'll just pull every fuse I can find and ohm it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of GT Posted May 11, 2010 Report Share Posted May 11, 2010 Ken, may I suggest that you contact your local Ford dealer's service department and tell them what happened? I say that because they may direct you to the exact circuit breaker/fuse that you need to check. One phone call might save you a ton of time trying to figure out what needs to be repaired. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmn444 Posted May 11, 2010 Report Share Posted May 11, 2010 I'm having trouble conceptualizing how the fuses up front could/would blow if the short was in the trunk and the battery is grounded near the spot it shorted too... electrical problems are such a pita! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted May 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2010 ^Not a bad idea at all. I put a call in and the guy I talked to said to check the first rack of cubes, especially the biggest fuses (40A+). He said those usually pop first when people short out their batteries. At 1AM, when this happened, I couldn't track down my Fluke, so I was just visually inspecting the fuses for broken links. Tonight, I'll ohm them out, starting with that big rack up front. Thanks for all the input fellas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorjock205 Posted May 11, 2010 Report Share Posted May 11, 2010 Ken, I did this many years ago while replacing an alternator on my old Buick Grand Sport....I didn't disconnect the battery and when I disconnected the wire from the alternator, it shorted out....everything went out....My dad was a mechanic....asked him about it and he said something about the fusable link, but he didn't remember where they were on the Buicks....well, after we tore the entire dash out checking all the fuses and every other wire, he said "Oh crap, it's down by the starter"....the fusable link is nothing more than a piece of wire that blows when a short occurs...Mine were simply black wires attached to the starter, but if you tried to bend them, you could tell there wasn't any wire in them any more....consider this when looking for this problem as well...We had to solder in a new fusible link and once it was reattached and the battery hooked back up, everything came back on again....Now does FORD use these??? I have no idea....but something to look for and keep in mind just in case... Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted May 11, 2010 Report Share Posted May 11, 2010 Go here for the entire shop manual: http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=1 Download the electrical as a reference. (see enclosed example) In the example of the charging system there is a fuse in the "Bussed Electrical Center" F43/10A that might be worth a look! Of course others as well. Problem is you may have multiple points of failure now so it's a good thing you have a meter! Good luck! -Jeff Charging System.pdf Charging System.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted May 11, 2010 Report Share Posted May 11, 2010 Ken, I did this many years ago while replacing an alternator on my old Buick Grand Sport....I didn't disconnect the battery and when I disconnected the wire from the alternator, it shorted out....everything went out....My dad was a mechanic....asked him about it and he said something about the fusable link, but he didn't remember where they were on the Buicks....well, after we tore the entire dash out checking all the fuses and every other wire, he said "Oh crap, it's down by the starter"....the fusable link is nothing more than a piece of wire that blows when a short occurs...Mine were simply black wires attached to the starter, but if you tried to bend them, you could tell there wasn't any wire in them any more....consider this when looking for this problem as well...We had to solder in a new fusible link and once it was reattached and the battery hooked back up, everything came back on again....Now does FORD use these??? I have no idea....but something to look for and keep in mind just in case... Carl Good call there! It's also on the Charging System schematic I sent and called "FUSELINK A" I wonder then if there is a "B" someplace. Of course where it is...well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted May 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 Thanks for the link Jeff. I looked at that diagram earlier actually, as I've got this manual as a bookmarked link. Everyone that ever opens the hood of these cars ought to do the same. Thanks for the heads up Carl. I've seen those in the past as well, but I didn't think to look for one here. According to the pdf, the 'fuselink A' is on a black, 8 gauge wire, between the battery and alternator. However, when I moved the battery to the trunk, my wiring changed a bit. The positive cable from the battery terminates at the BEC (main fuse box), as does the starter cable, alternator cable, and twin fuel pump cable. So I'm basically using my fuse box as a junction block. It didn't make sense to run these cables all the way to the trunk. And I didn't want to clutter the bay up with a big junction block, so this really cleans it up under the hood. However, I recall tossing at least 1 wire in the process of this reorganization. I remember getting rid of the original cable from the battery to the fuse box, as it was made redundant. I'm hoping that I didn't also eliminate this 8 gauge wire that originally ran from my battery to the alternator and in turn eliminate the fuse link. I know for sure that I have just one cable from the alternator to the fuse box at this point. I guess there could be an 8 gauge wire tagging along under the wire loom that protects it. Anyway, I'm still not home yet, so I suppose I'll have to look long and hard at all this once I get there. Thanks again guys. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorjock205 Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 I'd almost bet that the Fuselink A is hidden in there somewhere....I'm sure the spark did not drain your battery, you've just burnt that fuselink out or at the least blown the fuse there in the BEC that is along there near where that fuselink is shown.... It's a shame that wiring diagrams don't show the actual wiring as it is laid out in the car....Yeah, Right! That'd be entirely too easy....right? In looking at the wiring diagrams here, it looks like my little LED third brake light issue (where it comes on and stays on dimly) may be related to the ground somewhere in the trunk that it looks like "almost everything" literally grounds to the same ground back there....I may have to do a little investigation on this as well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDT Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 I have not seen the wire diagrams but the car power was completely dead after not running for a couple weeks and when charging the battery showed 13.5V for over 20 minutes the power to the car still completely dead.........Shortly after I head a click and all power fully restored........Makes me believe there is a main power up relay in the system????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted May 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 Well I'm back home finally. That 10A fuse on the diagram is good. I don't see a fuse link on the alt cable, but haven't pulled it apart yet. I'm reading zero voltage at the fuse box junction itself. Regardless of whether a fuse is popped anywhere in the car, I should have 12V at this junction. My positive cable runs directly from the battery to this junction on the fuse box. There's nothing in line in that cable that can open, but obviously plenty of things afterwards that can. So now I'm even more perplexed. I swapped batteries just to be sure and still nothing. Did I pop an entire cable? How else can I explain that point A has voltage but point B doesn't, when there's literally nothing but copper in between? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted May 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 I pulled the ground from the trunk and ohmed it out and it's reading fine. However, there is a small divot at one end of the cable and a tiny bit of wire showing, so it needs to be replaced anyway. I really don't think that is the cause of all this though, but who knows at this point. So I'm dead in the water - my 6 month build is at a screeching halt because of my own clumsiness. Any other input would be much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted May 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 Well it most definitely is the long positive lead from the trunk to the fuse box. I put my spare battery under the hood and tested it with a couple of new cables I happened to have laying around my shop. I also tested it with the existing cables. The alarm starts beeping as soon as I make contact to both terminals with every combo of cables I have, except whenever the long, existing positive cable is used. On one hand, I'm not happy to have to pull that entire cable back out. I'm sure it's not cheap to replace and it's most certainly a PITA. On the other hand, I'm grateful to not be pulling at straws anymore. That kind of blind troubleshooting drives me bananas. Thanks again for everyone's help. Case closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blownsgt Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 summit makes a great remote disconnect for batteries in the trunk i used it on my old car they also make bulkhead terminals that let you pass cables thru bulkheads without worrying about gromets and chaff problems glad you found the culprit if anything put a good 60 amp AGUsize inline fuse near the battery incase there is a problem with shorting in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted May 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 ^Thanks for the leads. I was told by another guy that I should look at a 200A C/B. What do you think of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rush_junky Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 Well it most definitely is the long positive lead from the trunk to the fuse box. I put my spare battery under the hood and tested it with a couple of new cables I happened to have laying around my shop. I also tested it with the existing cables. The alarm starts beeping as soon as I make contact to both terminals with every combo of cables I have, except whenever the long, existing positive cable is used. On one hand, I'm not happy to have to pull that entire cable back out. I'm sure it's not cheap to replace and it's most certainly a PITA. On the other hand, I'm grateful to not be pulling at straws anymore. That kind of blind troubleshooting drives me bananas. Thanks again for everyone's help. Case closed. Glad to hear it's not something more serious albeit a PITA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blkGT500nCA Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 Wait a pain, but I'm glad you got it figured out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT/SC#0471 Posted May 13, 2010 Report Share Posted May 13, 2010 summit makes a great remote disconnect for batteries in the trunk i used it on my old car they also make bulkhead terminals that let you pass cables thru bulkheads without worrying about gromets and chaff problems glad you found the culprit if anything put a good 60 amp AGUsize inline fuse near the battery incase there is a problem with shorting in the future +1 thats alot to melt a trunk mount battery lead. You can get the big sizes at a marine store by the foot...not cheap but its there. You can also get the AGU fuses at West Marine and a holder...I have several up to 600 amps on my boat. One bank of L16 (one battery weighs 150lbs) house batteries is in parallel and series to get 12 volts with about 900 amp hours and some serious amps to run my 2500 watt inverter and house DC loads. They are protected by shut off switches and the huge AGU 600 amp fuses. It needs some kind of saftey Id guess in case that lead shorts out to the chassis when you are haulin butt, youd have a fire potentially Ken, batteries have alot of amps as you know.... Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted May 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2010 ^Thanks for the heads up Randy. I'm picking up a 200A circuit breaker tomorrow and I might throw a disconnect switch in there too for good measure. I'm not sure what I was thinking not having a link in this circuit, but I'm lucky to have learned the lesson in the safety of my own garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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