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Paxton intercooler options


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I've been scouring the net for intercooler options for my Paxton Novi 1200SL. I'm looking for input on the different options.

 

The first option is the Paxton air-to-air kit that's specifically built for my application and includes everything I need. Griggs Racing uses this air-to-air kit on all of their supercharged GR40's and recommends it over anything else.

 

http://www.paxtonaut...duct.php?id=144

 

The 2nd option, which I'm not sure is even an option, is the Vortech air-to-water aftercooler kit, which is designed for a Vortech equipped 07+ MGT. What I need to know is whether this kit will definitely work with my Paxton 1200. If so, does the kit include everything I need (besides the tune obviously), or are there any other modifications that will be necessary, if I go this route? The air-to-water seems like it would be a more efficient solution and one that might yield lower and more consistent IAT's. If this is true, what's the advantage of the air-to-air?

 

http://www.superchar...330&tabactive=1

 

The final option is a custom intercooler. The only company I've found that builds 'universal' intercoolers is one called IceVex. What I don't know is whether any of their intercoolers will work with my blower. If I go this route, I'd still need to track down the new plumbing, which I assume I can purchase individually from Paxton.

 

http://www.icevex.com/index.html

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Happy Easter Ken

 

Is there a reason why you would not use the Paxton set up, iether the air to air or water cooled. Besides the plastic crappy tanks, they seem to work at least from a street application. I have heard the air to air that comes with the Novi 2200 is great. Just currious. Thanks.

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The only reason I'm looking elsewhere is because the air-to-water kit doesn't seem to be for sale by itself from Paxton, only from Vortech.

I'm just exploring my options before I decide to drop the dough I guess. Happy Easter to you too Harald!

 

Ken

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I was under the impression that Vortec and Paxton are owned by the same parent company and the their components are interchangable. I would also think you could use any intercooler you choose but it will require custom fab work for the pipes and plumbing if it's air to water. I would go with the Shelby intercooler if you wanted air to water and have it custom plumbed, but you know as well as anyone that the boys a Griggs know what they are talking about.

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"does the kit include everything I need (besides the tune obviously), or are there any other modifications that will be necessary"

 

 

Hi Ken,

 

On almost any major project the answer to the question above is almost always "No, the kit will not include everything you need", and "Yes, other modifications will be necessary".

 

Under racing conditions your Paxton head unit will be pumping out 200+ degree air temps. You really don't want to have that high temp boosted airflow going directly into your throttle body and your brand new motor. At a minimum you will take a significant performance hit and worse case it could cause catastrophic engine damage. None of the after-cooler options are cheap but they are all way less expensive than a new motor. So IMO there really is not an option to go none-after-cooled for a racing application. If it was me I'd go the air-to-water route and get an upgraded heat exchanger but I'm sure you'll get some opinions that it's not necessary.

 

I'm pretty sure that, with either option, modification to your head unit orientation may be required. Since the head unit output will no longer be making a hard right turn directly into the throttle body the head unit needs to be rotated counter clockwise either 45 degrees or 90 degrees to go into the after cooler (air or water). You might be able to put an elbow on the output but I don't think I've seen it done before. You should call Paxton or Vortech to find out how hard/easy it is to rotate the head unit, you may need to send it in and have them to do it or use their exchange program to trade-in your head unit for another one.

 

If you want the pure objective technical answer on the benefits of an after-cooler air-to-air versus air-to-water you should read this:

 

http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/download.php?dir=pdf/papers&file=cooler_paper.pdf

 

Bottom line is that for supercharged applications the static pressure increase of the air-to-air systems cause more loss of boost and and they are less efficient at cooling than air-to-water systems. There are lots of real world examples on S197 4.6L, 5.4L (and 5.0) Mustangs that will back this up. I would not doubt Griggs experience on the track so there is a lot to be said for their recommendation of air-to-air. But you may want to talk to Van at Revan Racing for another perspective on air-to-water benefits that is also based on lots of track experience.

 

Here is an interesting recent article in Mustang 5.0:

 

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/techarticles/65218_vortech_aftercooler_temperatures/index.html

 

Hope this helps, sounds like you are headed for some monster HP gains and that will mean proportional heat gains so to protect the motor you really should not skimp on the after-cooler system and (maybe more important) the right tune.

 

Good luck...

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The only reason I'm looking elsewhere is because the air-to-water kit doesn't seem to be for sale by itself from Paxton, only from Vortech.

I'm just exploring my options before I decide to drop the dough I guess. Happy Easter to you too Harald!

 

Ken

 

 

 

Ken, if you do go with Paxton air to water cooler, you may want to consider relocating the battery and going with the larger tank in that location. The little cup sized tank may be OK for street but with your racing, I would think it would be insuficiant. I think some on the Telingua site made this change. Also as mentioned, I do think the vortec stuff may be interchangable as mentioned. I know the tanks are.

 

Can't wait to see the finished car. Good luck.

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Hi Ken,

 

On almost any major project the answer to the question above is almost always "No, the kit will not include everything you need", and "Yes, other modifications will be necessary".

 

Under racing conditions your Paxton head unit will be pumping out 200+ degree air temps. You really don't want to have that high temp boosted airflow going directly into your throttle body and your brand new motor. At a minimum you will take a significant performance hit and worse case it could cause catastrophic engine damage. None of the after-cooler options are cheap but they are all way less expensive than a new motor. So IMO there really is not an option to go none-after-cooled for a racing application. If it was me I'd go the air-to-water route and get an upgraded heat exchanger but I'm sure you'll get some opinions that it's not necessary.

 

I'm pretty sure that, with either option, modification to your head unit orientation may be required. Since the head unit output will no longer be making a hard right turn directly into the throttle body the head unit needs to be rotated counter clockwise either 45 degrees or 90 degrees to go into the after cooler (air or water). You might be able to put an elbow on the output but I don't think I've seen it done before. You should call Paxton or Vortech to find out how hard/easy it is to rotate the head unit, you may need to send it in and have them to do it or use their exchange program to trade-in your head unit for another one.

 

If you want the pure objective technical answer on the benefits of an after-cooler air-to-air versus air-to-water you should read this:

 

http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/download.php?dir=pdf/papers&file=cooler_paper.pdf

 

Bottom line is that for supercharged applications the static pressure increase of the air-to-air systems cause more loss of boost and and they are less efficient at cooling than air-to-water systems. There are lots of real world examples on S197 4.6L, 5.4L (and 5.0) Mustangs that will back this up. I would not doubt Griggs experience on the track so there is a lot to be said for their recommendation of air-to-air. But you may want to talk to Van at Revan Racing for another perspective on air-to-water benefits that is also based on lots of track experience.

 

Here is an interesting recent article in Mustang 5.0:

 

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/techarticles/65218_vortech_aftercooler_temperatures/index.html

 

Hope this helps, sounds like you are headed for some monster HP gains and that will mean proportional heat gains so to protect the motor you really should not skimp on the after-cooler system and (maybe more important) the right tune.

 

Good luck...

 

 

Great info, thanks for sharing.

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^I was hoping you'd chime in, Brian.

 

Thanks for the links and the input. As for rotating the head unit, it's apparently as easy as unbolting the 1/2 dozen screws that hold the compressor housing to the gear case and just rolling the supercharger volute 90*, according to a Vortech guide I found online. The only potential hitch is if the blower won't rotate freely. At that point, I'd have to ship it off to Paxton for inspection. So hopefully mine won't have an issue in that regard.

 

That charge cooler pdf is very informative and confirms some of my suspicions. I'm now leaning heavily to the air-to-water option, but still unsure as to whether the Vortech aftercooler is an 'out of the box' solution for my 1200. I guess a call to Vortech will solve that mystery. Do you know whether Paxton sells their air-to-water kit separate from the 2200? I haven't found it anywhere online.

 

I ran without an intercooler on the track several times and never suffered heat soak, surprisingly. But you're right that with my build coming to a close shortly, I can't afford to risk any chance of detonation. The summers here are incredibly hot (110*+ is common), so even street driving has me concerned, let alone track time. Anyway, I'll send this thread's link to Van and ask for his input too. Thanks again for your help.

 

Ken

 

p.s. Harald, I relocated the battery already a couple of months ago really just for better weight distribution, but now that it's in the trunk, I'll definitely use that space for the bigger SC coolant res. Thanks for the heads up.

Edited by kahmann
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Ken,

If you may have to modify an inter-cooler application anyway, maybe take a look at inter-coolers offered by ProCharger, some models which are 3 core and are apparently very efficient

http://www.procharge...ercoolers.shtml

Just a thought :idea:

Lg

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the biggest issue i see with the water to air is the weight of it liquid is heavy. i think an air to air would be a better choice as it would help keep the weight balance of the car the psi loss can be made up with a smaller pully. IMHO

 

 

(edit to add) i have played with many turbo cars and have never used a water to air set up air to air has been sufficient up to 20+ psi of boost for me and 30+ for others.

Edited by greaser
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^The air-to-water setup is definitely preferred heavily by drag racers, but that's about it. Everyone on the road course seems to prefer the air-to-air.

The weight of all that extra coolant is something to consider for sure. After digging and digging, I'm leaning back to the air-to-air, if for nothing else because of it's simplicity and weight.

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^The air-to-water setup is definitely preferred heavily by drag racers, but that's about it. Everyone on the road course seems to prefer the air-to-air.

The weight of all that extra coolant is something to consider for sure. After digging and digging, I'm leaning back to the air-to-air, if for nothing else because of it's simplicity and weight.

 

Hi Ken.....I may just have to follow suit again... :lurk:

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