4th Revision - The new revised Clutch TSB 10-3-8

[DDT]

Had T-S-B 10-03-08 recently completed with the following parts Flywheel-7R3Z-6375-B: Clutch Kit-7R3Z-7L596: Slave F6ZZ-7600 . The trans now shifts smoothly into each gear and the pedal pressure is much lighter, however I still get the gear roll when stopped at a light with the car in neutral and the clutch disengaged and I now get a lot of shutter on take-off especially as the car warms up. I 'm hearing that the 10-03-08 TSB eliminated the take off shutter but mine seems worse. Questions to the group" 1 anyone else with the 10-03-08 TSB experiencing clutch shutter 2 Are the part numbers I listed truly 10 parts Thanks

 

 

Just had mine done with no more shudder, no more so called gear rollover noise and no more

hiss sound as the clutch plate is now organic and not ceramic................

 

My parts list shows;

 

Flywheel---------AR3Z-6375-A

Clutch------------AR3Z-7B546-A

Pilot Bearing---F6ZZ-7600-A

Seal--------------1R3Z-7052-AA

CSC--------------AR3Z=7A508-A

CST--------------AR3Z=7A512-A

Bolts 6----------N808969-S100

Bolts 8----------F6ZZ-6379-AA

 

I believe are all 2010 model parts.................

[SVT NAJA]

Just had mine done with no more shudder, no more so called gear rollover noise and no more

hiss sound as the clutch plate is now organic and not ceramic................

 

My parts list shows;

 

Flywheel---------AR3Z-6375-A

Clutch------------AR3Z-7B546-A

Pilot Bearing---F6ZZ-7600-A

Seal--------------1R3Z-7052-AA

CSC--------------AR3Z=7A508-A

CST--------------AR3Z=7A512-A

Bolts 6----------N808969-S100

Bolts 8----------F6ZZ-6379-AA

 

I believe are all 2010 model parts.................

 

 

DDT,

 

I can't believe you put the "fugly butt" clutch in your Shelby. Next thing we know, you'll be installing a 2010 rear body kit!

[DDT]

The Flywheel/Clutch is the only parts I would ever need or want from

your "FUGLY BUTT CAR"..................................................................

[chuckstang]

Had T-S-B 10-03-08 recently completed with the following parts Flywheel-7R3Z-6375-B: Clutch Kit-7R3Z-7L596: Slave F6ZZ-7600 . The trans now shifts smoothly into each gear and the pedal pressure is much lighter, however I still get the gear roll when stopped at a light with the car in neutral and the clutch disengaged and I now get a lot of shutter on take-off especially as the car warms up. I 'm hearing that the 10-03-08 TSB eliminated the take off shutter but mine seems worse. Questions to the group" 1 anyone else with the 10-03-08 TSB experiencing clutch shutter 2 Are the part numbers I listed truly 10 parts Thanks

 

 

Hi, yes I experience clutch shudder but only when hot and it is not clutch chatter, more of a shudder.

 

I brought mine back to the dealer for this.

 

Seems just like a hydraulic issue so I told them to bleed the clutch and brakes and put new dot 3 fluid in there.

 

Also am having the FRPP stainless clutch fluid line installed because it is not affected by heat like the factory hose. The factory hose is plastic and changes shape when it gets hot as you push the pedal, giving you the shudder IMO anyway,

 

Well see

[Throttled]

I verified mine has the old flywheel and took it to my dealer as my car was demonstrating some of these sympotms at 2500 miles. They verified the clutch issue and got on the hotline to Ford. Ford said it was a normal characteristic of the clutch and they should not perform any work. I replied with a question that if my flywheel warps and my car is out of warranty, I am out of pocket right? They said they doubted it would ever warp or distort.

[carrera]

I verified mine has the old flywheel and took it to my dealer as my car was demonstrating some of these sympotms at 2500 miles. They verified the clutch issue and got on the hotline to Ford. Ford said it was a normal characteristic of the clutch and they should not perform any work. I replied with a question that if my flywheel warps and my car is out of warranty, I am out of pocket right? They said they doubted it would ever warp or distort.

 

 

 

I have also heard that it is a normal characteristic of the 2007-2009 clutch, however I was told that it has all been eliminated with the organic compound 2010 clutch set up. Chuck are you getting shuttering with the 2010 set up?

[josevera]

If your still under warranty...let ford fix it.

 

When the warranty runs out...go aftermarket.

 

Mines running fine, but I'm going to ask my Mech about the PCM change.

THANKS FOR ALL THE INFORMATION ABOUT CLUTCH. JUST HAD MY DONE.

[1BADPNY]

I have an 09 GT500 with a build date of 12/8/08, so I believe I have the new flywheel. However I still have the annoying clutch chatter in 1st and reverse. I 've had it since day 1 and I hate it. Completely ruins the driving experience one should have when owning a $50K car. I haven't noticed any other symptoms yet but I only have 1500 miles on the car. Are owners with the new flywheel still experiencing issues? I would like to talk to my dealer about the new TSB and getting the 2010 assembly installed but don't feel they will honor it unless there are obvious symptoms. I would like to get a copy of the 4th revision TSB to bring with me, so if anyone has a link please post. Also any advice on negotiating with the dealer for a 2010 assembly would be greatly appreciated, as I believe I would finally be satisfied with my car if the shitty clutch issues were resolved.

 

I do believe that there may be more to the upadated PCM recalibration than we think. Just my opinion but when my car was 100% stock clutch chatter was horrible! If I took off from a stop 10 times I would experience clutch chatter 9 times in most cases. Six months after purchase I installed a FRPP CAI and Pro Cal tune and immediately noticed the car perked up a bit at idle which decreased clutch chatter on take offs. A few months later I installed a 2.65 upper pulley and custom tune from VMP which again seemed to really dial in a more agressive idle speed and response which went even futher into decreasing the chatter. I still experience chatter sometimes on inclines or during low speed manuvers, but I have to say It is about 75%-80% gone. Not saying the PCM calibration is a solution but perhaps a contributing factor in the poor response.

 

Still want the 2010 assembly though!

Edited August 7, 2010 by 1BADPNY

[Joe G]

Clutch chatter is normal.

[jcthorne]

Clutch chatter is normal.

 

 

Only if you don't know how to drive...

[chuckstang]

I have also heard that it is a normal characteristic of the 2007-2009 clutch, however I was told that it has all been eliminated with the organic compound 2010 clutch set up. Chuck are you getting shuttering with the 2010 set up?

 

 

 

Not really any chatter or shuddering, rarely it will chatter, but can't pin point why, just seems that the hydraulic system at least in my car is not the best or most consistent thing out there.

 

But I just had the FRPP stainless clutch fluid line installed to compliment my 2010 clutch and I must say, much improved. The pedal is more firm, and has more of a push back to it on release, so far I am happier with it, but it is not cheap at $180.

 

Not a huge improvement but definitely noticeable, but I will not know the true benefits until I can go on a long road trip or a day at the track where before with my factory fluid line, the pedal would at times loose its feeling and the release would be horrible and even sometimes preventing me from going into gear at a stop.

[chuckstang]

Only if you don't know how to drive...

 

 

I dont know many people on here say slipping the clutch=not knowing how to drive but if you dont slip it or dump it, the factory clutch will chatter

[jcthorne]

I dont know many people on here say slipping the clutch=not knowing how to drive but if you dont slip it or dump it, the factory clutch will chatter

 

 

And thus you proved my point. Its not slipping = wrong, its how much slip. For a ceramic clutch, its much less than an organic. IE the lockup rate of engagement is much faster due to the much higher coefficient of friction. Knowing or learning how to drive the ceramic clutch = learning to drive this car. Lots of folks never did.

 

Driven correctly, the 07 thru 09 clutch live a long and successful life and is actually stronger than the later organic clutch. There are a number of the 07 clutches with well in excess of 80k miles. Yes the flywheel warpage was a problem, that is a totally different issue than clutch chatter.

 

I have driven a 2010 and prefer the 07 clutch. The 2010 organic is far too easy to burn up with higher than stock HP. Unfortunatly because of all the ruckus, the ceramic is not available as a part or even from Ford Racing any longer. Only aftermarket has ceramic clutches.

 

Let me be perfectly clear. My 07 clutch, when properly driven most of the time DOES NOT CHATTER. I have driven several other 07 and 08s belonging to owners who feel the clutch has a problem. They drive fine with no chatter when driven properly. The 3.31 stock gears do make it more difficult, my 4:10s help in that regard. Once the flywheel is warped, the clutch will no longer disengage fully so easy to diagnose.

Edited August 11, 2010 by jcthorne

[Grabber]

And thus you proved my point. Its not slipping = wrong, its how much slip. For a ceramic clutch, its much less than an organic. IE the lockup rate of engagement is much faster due to the much higher coefficient of friction. Knowing or learning how to drive the ceramic clutch = learning to drive this car. Lots of folks never did.

 

Driven correctly, the 07 thru 09 clutch live a long and successful life and is actually stronger than the later organic clutch. There are a number of the 07 clutches with well in excess of 80k miles. Yes the flywheel warpage was a problem, that is a totally different issue than clutch chatter.

 

I have driven a 2010 and prefer the 07 clutch. The 2010 organic is far too easy to burn up with higher than stock HP. Unfortunatly because of all the ruckus, the ceramic is not available as a part or even from Ford Racing any longer. Only aftermarket has ceramic clutches.

 

Let me be perfectly clear. My 07 clutch, when properly driven most of the time DOES NOT CHATTER. I have driven several other 07 and 08s belonging to owners who feel the clutch has a problem. They drive fine with no chatter when driven properly. The 3.31 stock gears do make it more difficult, my 4:10s help in that regard. Once the flywheel is warped, the clutch will no longer disengage fully so easy to diagnose.

 

 

You are spot on my friend !!!

[chuckstang]

And thus you proved my point. Its not slipping = wrong, its how much slip. For a ceramic clutch, its much less than an organic. IE the lockup rate of engagement is much faster due to the much higher coefficient of friction. Knowing or learning how to drive the ceramic clutch = learning to drive this car. Lots of folks never did.

 

Driven correctly, the 07 thru 09 clutch live a long and successful life and is actually stronger than the later organic clutch. There are a number of the 07 clutches with well in excess of 80k miles. Yes the flywheel warpage was a problem, that is a totally different issue than clutch chatter.

 

I have driven a 2010 and prefer the 07 clutch. The 2010 organic is far too easy to burn up with higher than stock HP. Unfortunatly because of all the ruckus, the ceramic is not available as a part or even from Ford Racing any longer. Only aftermarket has ceramic clutches.

 

Let me be perfectly clear. My 07 clutch, when properly driven most of the time DOES NOT CHATTER. I have driven several other 07 and 08s belonging to owners who feel the clutch has a problem. They drive fine with no chatter when driven properly. The 3.31 stock gears do make it more difficult, my 4:10s help in that regard. Once the flywheel is warped, the clutch will no longer disengage fully so easy to diagnose.

 

 

Yup, my original 07 clutch never chattered but the TSB replacement unit did for some reason.

 

I had the TSB done because I was getting some clutch drag issues and so forth. I too would agree, I prefered my original clutch vs the spec and the 2010 clutch. But now my 2010 clutch finally feels more robust after adding the stanless clutch line

[AlloyDropTop]

And thus you proved my point. Its not slipping = wrong, its how much slip. For a ceramic clutch, its much less than an organic. IE the lockup rate of engagement is much faster due to the much higher coefficient of friction. Knowing or learning how to drive the ceramic clutch = learning to drive this car. Lots of folks never did.

 

Driven correctly, the 07 thru 09 clutch live a long and successful life and is actually stronger than the later organic clutch. There are a number of the 07 clutches with well in excess of 80k miles. Yes the flywheel warpage was a problem, that is a totally different issue than clutch chatter.

 

I have driven a 2010 and prefer the 07 clutch. The 2010 organic is far too easy to burn up with higher than stock HP. Unfortunatly because of all the ruckus, the ceramic is not available as a part or even from Ford Racing any longer. Only aftermarket has ceramic clutches.

 

Let me be perfectly clear. My 07 clutch, when properly driven most of the time DOES NOT CHATTER. I have driven several other 07 and 08s belonging to owners who feel the clutch has a problem. They drive fine with no chatter when driven properly. The 3.31 stock gears do make it more difficult, my 4:10s help in that regard. Once the flywheel is warped, the clutch will no longer disengage fully so easy to diagnose.

 

 

Does the flywheel warp over time, or is it a single overheating event that will cause it? I love my stock '08 clutch, and don't want to have it changed, but worry of the flywheel warping. I engage the clutch very quickly, and don't slip the clutch almost at all.

[chuckstang]

Question- Is it bad to let the clutch out really slowly from a start to get rolling without using the trottle? (anotherwords is that over slipping it)

[jcthorne]

Question- Is it bad to let the clutch out really slowly from a start to get rolling without using the trottle? (anotherwords is that over slipping it)

 

Yes. that would be bad.

 

You need a slight amout of throttle so as to not bog the motor as you let out of the clutch fairly quickly. In time and with practice, it becomes a smooth operation and not head jerking or tire spinning. After 3 years driving the car, I still get it wrong from time to time and let out too fast. better rear end gears help a bunch too.

[chuckstang]

I am so terrified of slipping the clutch (warping the flywheel) that I rarely give it any throttle when leaving from a stop. I usually just let the clutch out fairly quickly and since I give it no gas, it jerks a bit but I figure better a jerk than a warped clutch. Only time I let the clutch out slow with no throttle is pulling it into and out of the garage or parking lot.

[AlloyDropTop]

I am so terrified of slipping the clutch (warping the flywheel) that I rarely give it any throttle when leaving from a stop. I usually just let the clutch out fairly quickly and since I give it no gas, it jerks a bit but I figure better a jerk than a warped clutch. Only time I let the clutch out slow with no throttle is pulling it into and out of the garage or parking lot.

 

 

Chuckstang,

 

You just made me laugh very hard. I am exactly the same. I have actually figured out how to get one good fast clutch out to happen and then roll into my garage. Same on way out....one quick jab and roll out. I avoid slipping the clutch at all cost. I avoid a few roads in my area, because the are agressive uphill starts, and I don't want to warp the flywheel.

 

This car might actually be causing me to develop some sort of mental condition......

[Grabber]

You guys are over thinking this.

[AlloyDropTop]

You guys are over thinking this.

 

How is that, Grabber?

 

My car has zero symptoms of warped flywheel or clutch grab, so Ford doesn't want to perform TSB, nor do I for that matter. my experience with Ford dealers over the years hasn't been great.

 

since warped flywheels are caused by excess heat, which is caused by friction of a partially engaged clutch, that itself is either caused by user slipping clutch, or hanging up clutch, wouldn't it be reasonable to conclude that slipping the clutch should be avoided?

 

I don't know how much slipping is too much. I have always minimized this in all cars I have owned, but I don't know when I have crossed that line.

Edited August 26, 2010 by AlloyDropTop

[DDT]

 

 

This car might actually be causing me to develop some sort of mental condition......

 

 

This would be a symptom of "overthinking"?????????

Edited August 26, 2010 by DDT

[Grabber]

How is that, Grabber?

 

My car has zero symptoms of warped flywheel or clutch grab, so Ford doesn't want to perform TSB, nor do I for that matter. my experience with Ford dealers over the years hasn't been great.

 

since warped flywheels are caused by excess heat, which is caused by friction of a partially engaged clutch, that itself is either caused by user slipping clutch, or hanging up clutch, wouldn't it be reasonable to conclude that slipping the clutch should be avoided?

 

I don't know how much slipping is too much. I have always minimized this in all cars I have owned, but I don't know when I have crossed that line.

 

Do you have the old nodular iron flywheel in your car ?

[AlloyDropTop]

Do you have the old nodular iron flywheel in your car ?

 

 

yes. I think mine has the improved lube and larger tolerance input shaft. But original design flywheel. So, clutch doesn't hang up on it's own, but I would think a bunch of slipping would probably warp the flywheel?

 

So my theory is why risk taking to a dealer for a clutch replacement since I know how to drive it without smoking the clutch?

[Grabber]

yes. I think mine has the improved lube and larger tolerance input shaft. But original design flywheel. So, clutch doesn't hang up on it's own, but I would think a bunch of slipping would probably warp the flywheel?

 

So my theory is why risk taking to a dealer for a clutch replacement since I know how to drive it without smoking the clutch?

 

 

I would hate to be limited to driving the car easy all the time. That's just me.

[AlloyDropTop]

I would hate to be limited to driving the car easy all the time. That's just me.

 

Not slipping a clutch does not equal driving it easy all the time. A fully engaged clutch, that isn't slipping, will not heat up. It is the slipping that causes the heat, which causes the warp. No slip should mean no warp. Only the initial start is hard on the clutch. I rev match my shifts, so gear to gear results in little friction to cause heat. I am not a rev it up and slip the clutch driver, even when driving aggressive. If I drag raced, I would probably be concerned more, as those launches would cause lots of heat.

 

Even when wide open, a fully engaged clutch just acts like a solid connection....no heat...

 

I have ridden with people who slip their clutches on every upshift and especially downshifts. driving the car easy and slipping the clutch will kill it. You don't have to drive it easy to not slip the clutch.

 

My biggest problem with getting the tsp done is a long list of damage my Ford products have accumulated at Ford dealers. Lots of risk even parking in their lot...

[Grabber]

Some day your car will need to be worked on. Find a dealer you can trust before your 3 year warranty is up.

[stpracer43]

I took my wife's '08 Vert in for this and one other TSB this week...

 

1) The convertible top seam separating at the first bow (TSB performed by sub-contracted shop.... didn't fix the issue)

 

2) A slight rolling vibe (flywheel?), which can be felt in the gear shift lever, the floorboard, and the steering wheel. Also, particularly noticable shudder just as I push the clutch pedal to disengage the clutch while rolling to a stop from about 25-30 MPH.

 

After a 20 mile test drive, mechanic and service manager stated they believed it to be a tire/wheel vibration versus flywheel. Suppose I should have them balance and rotate the tires, then check for the vibe again.

 

 

Keith

[m81mclaren]

Well after 500 miles I am very happy with the 2010 clutch on my 2007. No shudder, consistent takeup, the firmness of the engagement is just right, and no hiss (I kinda liked that though)! Did I say NO SHUDDER?! Backing up the driveway and hill starts are now easy and don't snap the neck on my passengeres. The combination makes the car much more enjoyable! Will post addl. progress @ the 1K mark.

 

 

 

Now 2K mi on the new 2010 setup. No change in the above and the smile on my face is wider now that the shudder is completely eliminated. Night and day difference for me compared to previous TSB repairs. Best of luck to you all on your repairs; Galpin Ford was great to deal with.

M81