68fastback Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Thought the 3V crowd (with/considering aftermarket SCs) would enjoy this ...and that's on a Mustang Dyno too (may be around 60rwHP on a Dynojet?!) ...pretty amazing for an hour bolt-on! And since it reduces intake presure drop substantially (more SC efficiency), you gain that power with less stress on the engine than by using a bigger pulley. --- (First posted on Stang Mafia by Birdman) Amazing max 52HP gain overall on a TVS equipted Roush P51 by just swaping out the stock TB for the L&M. [On a Mustang Dyno] The car made 532 whp and 466lbs torque with the stock TB. (#2) then after a 1hour cool down they did a 2nd run (#1) after bolting on the L&M. Net result was 584 whp and 485lbs of torque. 52whp peak gain (48whp gain at the same rpm). No other changes were made to the car See attachment: Roush_P51_Dyno_Stock_TBvs.L_M_.pdf Roush_P51_Dyno_Stock_TBvs.L_M_.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JogieJr Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Thought the 3V crowd (with/considering aftermarket SCs) would enjoy this ...and that's on a Mustang Dyno too (may be around 60rwHP on a Dynojet?!) ...pretty amazing for an hour bolt-on! And since it reduces intake presure drop substantially (more SC efficiency), you gain that power with less stress on the engine than by using a bigger pulley. --- (First posted on Stang Mafia by Birdman) Amazing max 52HP gain overall on a TVS equipted Roush P51 by just swaping out the stock TB for the L&M. [On a Mustang Dyno] The car made 532 whp and 466lbs torque with the stock TB. (#2) then after a 1hour cool down they did a 2nd run (#1) after bolting on the L&M. Net result was 584 whp and 485lbs of torque. 52whp peak gain (48whp gain at the same rpm). No other changes were made to the car See attachment: Great info Dan! Thanks for sharing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 How on earth is this possible with just a TB? Man, if this is legit, I'm blown away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svtbird91 Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 How on earth is this possible with just a TB? Man, if this is legit, I'm blown away. Yes this is legit. Just to be clear, this is a TVS equipted 5.0 Roush P51. The car had a Roush tune in it and no changes were made to the car, just a TB swap. This is the 66mm L&M TB that fits the GT500. FYI- They did however just produce a new smaller "62mm L&M that will fit all Mustang GT 4.6 engines. It is being finalized now and should be released in a next week or two. Stay tuned!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted November 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 ...it also helped that they pulled the stock P51 to about 6200 and with the L&M to 6500. But, if you look at the slope of the two curves, the stock curve is about to nose-over at 6200 and the L&M curve is still pointing up at 6500, so there was even more to be had if pushed further. ...pretty amazing ...and no tune changes were needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rush_junky Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 FYI- They did however just produce a new smaller "62mm L&M that will fit all Mustang GT 4.6 engines. It is being finalized now and should be released in a next week or two. Stay tuned!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr8snkbite Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 very impressive to say the least.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srk1959 Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Yes this is legit. Just to be clear, this is a TVS equipted 5.0 Roush P51. The car had a Roush tune in it and no changes were made to the car, just a TB swap. This is the 66mm L&M TB that fits the GT500. FYI- They did however just produce a new smaller "62mm L&M that will fit all Mustang GT 4.6 engines. It is being finalized now and should be released in a next week or two. Stay tuned!!!! I will have one of the 62mm's coming for my sons 08 Bullitt very soon! He is against supercharging it which is fine with me. The car is fast enough right now for a 16 year old.......when he gets to be 16 that is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted November 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 I will have one of the 62mm's coming for my sons 08 Bullitt very soon! He is against supercharging it which is fine with me. The car is fast enough right now for a 16 year old.......when he gets to be 16 that is! OMG! ...adoption papers sent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svtbird91 Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 New 62mm L&M TB for the 4.6 Mustang GT engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dh777 Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Ford has a 62 mm for a 4.6 also http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_...tKeyField=10953 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted November 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 ...looks like an Accufab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 What's the price tag on the 66mm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker45 Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 What's the price tag on the 66mm? $605 add $30 for a polished or anodized black finish. Worth every penny for this TB imho! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500-07 Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Ford has a 62 mm for a 4.6 alsohttp://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_...tKeyField=10953 go with the L&M, it's better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueone Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 How on earth is this possible with just a TB? Man, if this is legit, I'm blown away. +1, I just bought the FRPP 62mm and have not installed it yet and I'm sure not expecting 50hp or anything close,maybe with a pulley swap and race gas. What is amazing is that motor is moving enough air for the stock TB to be that much of a restriction. I was planning on having back to back pulls done when I have mine installed, but I'm not expecting much of a gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 I'm just really confused as to how the design of one 62mm TB vs another 62mm TB could make such a dramatic difference. I'm not doubting you guys, I'm sincerely not understanding it. My BBK 62mm gained next to nothing in power (however, it did improve throttle response a whole lot). Can anyone explain how 2 TB's that are identical size have such different results in power gains? Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svtbird91 Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 I'm just really confused as to how the design of one 62mm TB vs another 62mm TB could make such a dramatic difference.I'm not doubting you guys, I'm sincerely not understanding it. My BBK 62mm gained next to nothing in power (however, it did improve throttle response a whole lot). Can anyone explain how 2 TB's that are identical size have such different results in power gains? Ken Ken, the one on the P51Roush was the 66mm L&M ( fits the GT500 bolt pattern) not the smaller bolt pattern 62mm L&M which will fit the 4.6 engine. (see post #4) However they do expect significent gains from the 62 as well. I'm sure the numbers on their 62 will be out soon. There is a lot of engineering and detail into these TB's just not found in any other TB out there. If you had one in your hand you would be able to see what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawdude Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 Is this the same one? http://www.fordgt500.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4074 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500-07 Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 Is this the same one? http://www.fordgt500.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4074 that's the one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 So the 66mm is an option for the 3V with the correct adapter right? I'm thinking these are probably pretty pricey. If so, may as well go with the bigger one. EDIT: MMR sells an adapter to convert Cobra TB's onto 3V intakes: http://modularmustangracing.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svtbird91 Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 So the 66mm is an option for the 3V with the correct adapter right?I'm thinking these are probably pretty pricey. If so, may as well go with the bigger one. The P51 Roush was equipped with the TVS blower which has the same bolt pattern as the GT500 TB that's why they were able to use the 66mm TB. Makes me think that the 5.0Roush has a different intake that allows the use of the TVS ...dunno. I don't know if the larger TB could be adapted to the smaller 4.6 intake or not, I kind of doubt it. I believe that's why they came out with the proper bolt patterned 4.6GT one. Given the smaller size of the 4.6 intake I think you would be better off with the correct one that will bolt right up. It would be a better match for air flow as well . I am confident from what I've seen that the L&M 62mm will yeild great results for the 4.6 engine's both in throttle responce and HP gains just as the 66mm L&M is doing for the 5.4 engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500-07 Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 So the 66mm is an option for the 3V with the correct adapter right?I'm thinking these are probably pretty pricey. If so, may as well go with the bigger one. EDIT: MMR sells an adapter to convert Cobra TB's onto 3V intakes: http://modularmustangracing.com/ JDM also offers an adapter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 The P51 Roush was equipped with the TVS blower which has the same bolt pattern as the GT500 TB that's why they were able to use the 66mm TB. Makes me think that the 5.0Roush has a different intake that allows the use of the TVS ...dunno. I don't know if the larger TB could be adapted to the smaller 4.6 intake or not, I kind of doubt it. I believe that's why they came out with the proper bolt patterned 4.6GT one. Given the smaller size of the 4.6 intake I think you would be better off with the correct one that will bolt right up. It would be a better match for air flow as well . I am confident from what I've seen that the L&M 62mm will yeild great results for the 4.6 engine's both in throttle responce and HP gains just as the 66mm L&M is doing for the 5.4 engines. I assumed that the P51 was equipped with the Roush-blower, which is built for any and all 4.6L (TVS design). Either way, you may be right about the limitation of the stock 4.6 intake (which obviously isn't a factor with a Roush-supercharged engine). However, I do know of several guys running Cobra Jet and OEM GT500 throttle bodies with the stock 4.6 intake, mostly those making tons of HP (600+). Something worth investigating anyway, before dropping the coin on the smaller TB. Thanks for your input. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHELBYBRO Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 I believe it all since I have seen a P51. My cousin has a P51 B that dynoed at 743 hp. He has hade a lot of work done to it including a 5.1 stroker and Kenne Bell Mamoth SC. The thing sounds like a airline jet. I'm supposed to see him today at Thanxgiving, i will check which TB he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL SHELBY Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 I'm no expert but every little thing can impact the flow of air into the engine. You can have a large bore with turbulent flow and it will not perform. It's clear the shape of the bore of the L&M is different from the BBK, and FRPP and therefor may be providing cleaner air (not as turbulent). The set-up in the P51 is pretty amazing. I recently met a guy putting down 750 in his P51 with nothing more than a tune and pully. I would still be surprised to see anything close to this percentage of gain from a throttlebody alone on a stock 4.6. Having said that, I'll take anything close that kind of gain with such a simple mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackShelby Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 So the 66mm is an option for the 3V with the correct adapter right?I'm thinking these are probably pretty pricey. If so, may as well go with the bigger one. EDIT: MMR sells an adapter to convert Cobra TB's onto 3V intakes: http://modularmustangracing.com/ The adapter plate does work but will cause problems with airflow. The manifold opening on the 3v is only 62 mm so adding a bigger TB or a adapter plate will hurt airflow(cause turbulence). The 62mm TB is the way to go on the 4.6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave c Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 I recently met a guy putting down 750 in his P51 with nothing more than a tune and pully. I would still be surprised to see anything close to this percentage of gain from a throttlebody alone on a stock 4.6. Having said that, I'll take anything close that kind of gain with such a simple mod. Hey, anything is possible, but I find it hard to believe that a P-51 comes with 510hp @the block. Which equals about 430-440rwhp and to throw on a tune and a pulley and is making 750rwhp?? That would be 870 @the crank, unless that SC comes stock with an 8" pulley. If he's really putting down 750 he must have an amazing tuner. I think he forgot to mention a few extra upgrades. Does the P51 come with the R2300 SC? Not trying to bust your chops, but come on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordFan1 Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 Hey, anything is possible, but I find it hard to believe that a P-51 comes with 510hp @the block. Which equals about 430-440rwhp and to throw on a tune and a pulley and is making 750rwhp?? That would be 870 @the crank, unless that SC comes stock with an 8" pulley. If he's really putting down 750 he must have an amazing tuner. I think he forgot to mention a few extra upgrades. Does the P51 come with the R2300 SC? Not trying to bust your chops, but come on. Yes the R2300 TVS is on the 2008 P51's and '09 P51B's which is also the same drivetrain combo (forged internal 4.6 & R2300 TVS) now used in the 2010 Roush Stage 3's and 540RH "Hammer", but now rated at 540hp. Right off the show room they are dynoing at over 500hp to the tires and covered by the factory 3yr/36month warranty..... http://www.roushperformance.com/performanc...010/540rh.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL SHELBY Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 That's the story I was given/recall and I had no reason to doudt the guy. Also, I've had a beer or three since then so I may be a little fuzzy on the details. :beerchug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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