GT500-07 Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 Planning on 17-18 psi. With the heads opened up and the huge exhaust, the motor will be running a lot more efficiently obviously, which will make it tougher to build boost pressure. It'll put down well over 6xxRWHP. I'm shooting for the 7xx's on race gas. Well the port/polish and valve job will be a stage 3. The cams, however, won't be any heavier than a stage 2, if that. Depends on what Comp says about my failure. Ken with a NOVI-1200 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greaser Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 thats some crazy dish on those pistons. lol Im so used to flat tops and old shovel head pistons that had a crazy dome on them that it just seems wrong to see them dished out like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted December 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 with a NOVI-1200 ? Yes. The 1200 is a high psi, low volume blower. With the stock 3.8" pulley, however, the little guy is stifled pretty well. Even with that pulley, stock crank pulley, stock 6-rib, etc this 1200 made 10 psi. thats some crazy dish on those pistons. lol Im so used to flat tops and old shovel head pistons that had a crazy dome on them that it just seems wrong to see them dished out like that. Those are the 3V notches. That's what took the kit so long to arrive. I agree though, it definitely doesn't look normal to me either. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted December 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 I stopped by the machine shop today to check on the progress and drop my oil pan, cam covers, and timing cover off to get cleaned. I was unhappy to find that nothing had been done beyond the block cleaning and crank removal. I was told that MMR sent me the wrong main stud kit. Don at Motor Machines then called ARP to find the right kit. They don't make a 'kit' for the 3V yet, so he's going to have to piece one together from existing 2V and 4V kits. Rick at MMR then called and said that the MMR 'Hurricane' billet geared oil pump he sold to me weeks ago isn't built for the 3V either. He shipped a GT500 oil pump to me without asking and without offering a refund. I told him I'd ship it back as soon as I got it and that I'd need a refund so that I could find a billet geared pump. Anyone have a source on one for a 3V? Anyway, I won't make the Bash because of this. My schedule was air tight and a delay like this screws it all up. I wasn't happy with Rick for not knowing what the hell he was selling to me and I wasn't happy with Don for not calling me yesterday morning when he discovered the error with the studs. I'm going to have a drink now. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave c Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 I stopped by the machine shop today to check on the progress and drop my oil pan, cam covers, and timing cover off to get cleaned. I was unhappy to find that nothing had been done beyond the block cleaning and crank removal. I was told that MMR sent me the wrong main stud kit. Don at Motor Machines then called ARP to find the right kit. They don't make a 'kit' for the 3V yet, so he's going to have to piece one together from existing 2V and 4V kits. Rick at MMR then called and said that the MMR 'Hurricane' billet geared oil pump he sold to me weeks ago isn't built for the 3V either. He shipped a GT500 oil pump to me without asking and without offering a refund. I told him I'd ship it back as soon as I got it and that I'd need a refund so that I could find a billet geared pump. Anyone have a source on one for a 3V? Anyway, I won't make the Bash because of this. My schedule was air tight and a delay like this screws it all up. I wasn't happy with Rick for not knowing what the hell he was selling to me and I wasn't happy with Don for not calling me yesterday morning when he discovered the error with the studs. I'm going to have a drink now. Ken Sorry to hear about that Ken. But you're spending a lot of money and you gotta go slow and do it right. Oh by the way, you don't need your car to go to the bash and have a good time. We've never taken our car to the bash because of the time of year. Rent a Mustang and come join the fun. So you'll get your car done and take it next year, we all still have a blast. The best thing I can say about owning a Shelby is the people we've met and the friendships we've made. Priceless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted December 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 ^Thanks Dave. I'm definitely trying to do this right, but was hoping to have it done on schedule. Silly me. I need to focus my money on the build so I can have a running car before I get old and gray. I hate to miss the party, but it's just not gonna work this year. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HARALD KELLEY Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 Sorry to hear this Ken as I was hoping to meet you and see the monster. Maybe you need to just get away. If not, good luck and I know we will meet in the future, maybe the Tahoe cruise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07-2937 Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 that sux i was hoping to see and hear the beast but the important thing is that you are verifying everything and making it right the first time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500-07 Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 I stopped by the machine shop today to check on the progress and drop my oil pan, cam covers, and timing cover off to get cleaned. I was unhappy to find that nothing had been done beyond the block cleaning and crank removal. I was told that MMR sent me the wrong main stud kit. Don at Motor Machines then called ARP to find the right kit. They don't make a 'kit' for the 3V yet, so he's going to have to piece one together from existing 2V and 4V kits. Rick at MMR then called and said that the MMR 'Hurricane' billet geared oil pump he sold to me weeks ago isn't built for the 3V either. He shipped a GT500 oil pump to me without asking and without offering a refund. I told him I'd ship it back as soon as I got it and that I'd need a refund so that I could find a billet geared pump. Anyone have a source on one for a 3V? Anyway, I won't make the Bash because of this. My schedule was air tight and a delay like this screws it all up. I wasn't happy with Rick for not knowing what the hell he was selling to me and I wasn't happy with Don for not calling me yesterday morning when he discovered the error with the studs. I'm going to have a drink now. Ken welcome to engine building 101, nothing ever goes right, never done on time, and always costs more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500-07 Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 a few threads on oil pumps, hope they help http://s197.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24496&highlight=oil+pumps http://s197.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20632&highlight=oil+pumps'>http://s197.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20632&highlight=oil+pumps'>http://s197.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20632&highlight=oil+pumps http://s197.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20632&highlight=oil+pumps http://s197.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25983&highlight=billet+oil+pump&page=2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greaser Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 damn sorry to hear that ken i hope they can get it worked out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strong_j Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 I just bought the mmr racing oil pump from MMR. Its specifically designed for the 3v. Here's a link http://modularmustangracing.com.tempwebsite.net/cartgenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=271&cid=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted December 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 I just bought the mmr racing oil pump from MMR. Its specifically designed for the 3v. Here's a link http://modularmustan...p?pid=271&cid=1 That's the same pump they've been selling for a decade. Just happens to fit the 3V and doesn't have billet gears. I'm going to call SHM and a couple other vendors Frank (devildog) recommended. Thanks for the input guys. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devildog350 Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 That's the same pump they've been selling for a decade. Just happens to fit the 3V and doesn't have billet gears. I'm going to call SHM and a couple other vendors Frank (devildog) recommended. Thanks for the input guys. Ken Ken, when you get your oil pump, make sure it gets blue printed, and not taken out of the box and installed. It needs to be taken apart and thourly cleaned, clearances need to be checked, especially the rotor side clearance(not more than .004), check relief valve operation, these are very important. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewnagle1964 Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 That's the same pump they've been selling for a decade. Just happens to fit the 3V and doesn't have billet gears. I'm going to call SHM and a couple other vendors Frank (devildog) recommended. Thanks for the input guys. Ken Ken Try these guys TSS I plan on getting these gears and putting them in the stock oil pump when we redo the bottom end of the engine, I have heard nothing but good things about these guys Good Luck Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted December 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Ken, when you get your oil pump, make sure it gets blue printed, and not taken out of the box and installed. It needs to be taken apart and thourly cleaned, clearances need to be checked, especially the rotor side clearance(not more than .004), check relief valve operation, these are very important. Frank That's excellent info to have, thanks again for lending your expertise Frank. Ken Try these guys TSS I plan on getting these gears and putting them in the stock oil pump when we redo the bottom end of the engine, I have heard nothing but good things about these guys Good Luck Andrew Thanks lots Andrew. I'll check them out. Frank helped me track down this Melling pump with billet gears: http://www.modulardepot.com/Engine_Components/c20/p86/Melling_Mustang_GT_Oil_Pump_with_Billet_Gears/product_info.html I picked my engine block and all of my parts up today, after a huge fiasco with the nutcase guy I had been dealing with. I'm now searching for a new machine shop to do the work. If anyone has any recommendation for a road race motor assembler/machinist that has experience with the 3V, please let me know. So far, MMR hasn't impressed me with their knowledge of the 3V or road race applications. SHM is of more interest by the day. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revan Racing Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 That's excellent info to have, thanks again for lending your expertise Frank. Thanks lots Andrew. I'll check them out. Frank helped me track down this Melling pump with billet gears: http://www.modulardepot.com/Engine_Components/c20/p86/Melling_Mustang_GT_Oil_Pump_with_Billet_Gears/product_info.html I picked my engine block and all of my parts up today, after a huge fiasco with the nutcase guy I had been dealing with. I'm now searching for a new machine shop to do the work. If anyone has any recommendation for a road race motor assembler/machinist that has experience with the 3V, please let me know. So far, MMR hasn't impressed me with their knowledge of the 3V or road race applications. SHM is of more interest by the day. Ken Ken Michael Rauscher of L&M Engines in Hatboro, PA is working with me on my build. http://www.lmengines.com/ I am also working on a couple of other builds with him as well. Give him a call. He's a wealth of knowledge and has all of the tools. He specializes in race engines since 1975. He has his own custom pistons made by Diamond and even has them listed on his website for the 3V. Van Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted December 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 ^Thanks tons for the lead Van! Those custom pistons of theirs sound pretty killer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500-07 Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Ken Michael Rauscher of L&M Engines in Hatboro, PA is working with me on my build. http://www.lmengines.com/ I am also working on a couple of other builds with him as well. Give him a call. He's a wealth of knowledge and has all of the tools. He specializes in race engines since 1975. He has his own custom pistons made by Diamond and even has them listed on his website for the 3V. Van +100, he just completed my 302 3V stroker :happy feet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroDan Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 I stopped by the machine shop today to check on the progress and drop my oil pan, cam covers, and timing cover off to get cleaned. I was unhappy to find that nothing had been done beyond the block cleaning and crank removal. I was told that MMR sent me the wrong main stud kit. Don at Motor Machines then called ARP to find the right kit. They don't make a 'kit' for the 3V yet, so he's going to have to piece one together from existing 2V and 4V kits. Rick at MMR then called and said that the MMR 'Hurricane' billet geared oil pump he sold to me weeks ago isn't built for the 3V either. He shipped a GT500 oil pump to me without asking and without offering a refund. I told him I'd ship it back as soon as I got it and that I'd need a refund so that I could find a billet geared pump. Anyone have a source on one for a 3V? Anyway, I won't make the Bash because of this. My schedule was air tight and a delay like this screws it all up. I wasn't happy with Rick for not knowing what the hell he was selling to me and I wasn't happy with Don for not calling me yesterday morning when he discovered the error with the studs. I'm going to have a drink now. Ken This is very disturbing for me. I can only imagine your feelings. I thought MMR knew "everything" about mustangs, including 3v's. The more of this I see, makes me think AED may be the way to go, for me. Let them turn-key the work with my in-hand quote... Hang in their Ken. You are doing this correctly, and how about the knowledge from the TS guys, here? Really a great group of folks. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewnagle1964 Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 That's excellent info to have, thanks again for lending your expertise Frank. Thanks lots Andrew. I'll check them out. Frank helped me track down this Melling pump with billet gears: http://www.modulardepot.com/Engine_Components/c20/p86/Melling_Mustang_GT_Oil_Pump_with_Billet_Gears/product_info.html That looks like the ticket, I am going to save this information for down the road ! Thanks Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted December 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 This is very disturbing for me. I can only imagine your feelings. I thought MMR knew "everything" about mustangs, including 3v's. The more of this I see, makes me think AED may be the way to go, for me. Let them turn-key the work with my in-hand quote... Hang in their Ken. You are doing this correctly, and how about the knowledge from the TS guys, here? Really a great group of folks. Dan Yeah Dan you're spot on, the info I've gotten from a small handful of guys here on TS has been infinitely more reliable and helpful than that from all the shops I've ever spoken to about this. I owe them a serious debt of gratitude for their help. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT/SC#0471 Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Hey Ken awhile back I posted a topic about max hp from a blown 4.6. Dave C. posted about this guy getting near 1000hp on a FRPP shortblock... Not to be silly or disrespectful....but could this be an option for you: http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/index.php?/topic/49239-max-power-from-a-whipple-with-a-built-shortblock/page__st__20uld Anyways hang in there my man...I can relate on my last boat I blew a 360 with a detonated piston in the middle of the summer... I got it together to still enjoy the season though...It will come together all bad to the bone for you I am sure... The waiting is the deal... Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted December 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 Hey Ken awhile back I posted a topic about max hp from a blown 4.6. Dave C. posted about this guy getting near 1000hp on a FRPP shortblock... Not to be silly or disrespectful....but could this be an option for you: http://www.teamshelb...page__st__20uld Anyways hang in there my man...I can relate on my last boat I blew a 360 with a detonated piston in the middle of the summer... I got it together to still enjoy the season though...It will come together all bad to the bone for you I am sure... The waiting is the deal... Cheers! I considered the Aluminator, but decided against it, since my block was still in tact. FRPP uses our production 4.6L aluminum block for their short blocks, so I didn't want to buy the block that I already had. Also, there were some parts that I wanted to customize and didn't want to buy twice. For a turn key solution, however, the FRPP short block is a good deal for sure, just not quite right for me. Thanks for the input Randy. Once I find a machinist/assembler, it ought to be a down hill slide. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcarl1 Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 Ken Have you called joey Gross in lodi ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted December 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 ^No man, I forgot all about him! I'm calling him first thing Monday morning. Give me a call when you have the time Carl. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowLands Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Better double check those pistons. They look to be the standard Manley stroker units for the 2V and 4V but have the notches cut for the 3V exhaust valve. MMR is notorious for that. As far as builders/machine shops......can't help you with a California builder. The suggestion of L&M is a good one. MV Performance in Georgia is another. Modular Performance in Michigan is excellent and has plenty of road race engine experience. John Tymensky of Modular Performance was an actual engineer for Ford doing the modular stuff before he retired. If you call him or MV be sure and tell them S.D. Wheeler sent you. The piston rings......ditch the Hastings. Now. Go with anybody's rings except those. ModMax has a great set of rings that we've used on several engines with good results. Heads.....I would seriously reconsider using MMR for the head work. I'd ship the whole damn thing to anyone except them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted December 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Thanks again for the insight SD. I'll explore the options you've laid out this week for sure. I'll call MMR about the pistons in the morning. What do you think of Sealed Power or Mahle rings? Lastly, what about my bearings? They seem to be standard Clevite bearings, nothing special. Do you have any other recommendation for a road race build? Thanks again. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted December 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 I've spoken to countless shop owners the past few days and have gained a whole ton of insight on these builds. I've decided to go with TEM in Napa - http://www.temperformance.com/main.html Either tomorrow or Monday morning, I'll run everything out to them and get this thing going. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500-07 Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 I've spoken to countless shop owners the past few days and have gained a whole ton of insight on these builds. I've decided to go with TEM in Napa - http://www.temperformance.com/main.html Either tomorrow or Monday morning, I'll run everything out to them and get this thing going. Ken has he built any 4.6 3v's before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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