Jump to content
TEAM SHELBY FORUM

Oil change - ? wrong oil?


keb

Recommended Posts

Was going to do my oil with castrol 5w-50 but guess what, castrol doesn't make the "-B" spec oil. Sucks, I can't seem to find anyone in Utah that sells, the -B, it outsite a dealership. Very few manufactures make it. There is something about the -B spec that is required by Ford because of the S\C's.

If you must have the Motorcraft Oil - K-man sells it mail-order.

 

http://k-mansparts.com/items/motorcraft-fi...-qgt-detail.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 103
  • Created
  • Last Reply
According to the Syntec Product Data Sheet, their 5W50 exceeds Ford WSS-M2C931-B. The bottles on the store shelves still say WSS-M2C931-A.

 

http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_inter..._syntec_usa.pdf

 

 

Castrol Syntec is not synthetic oil. It is a Group III oil and I might use one in a Corolla but not a GT500.

 

ChrisD, you must be right. I read the above file with scrutiny and did see where Castrol specified SOME oils as Full Synthetic. As for the 5w-50, IT IS NOT SPECIFIED in the product sheet. And, I confirmed with the filler cap on our cars and the owners manual, they do say Full Synthetic Recommended. Being I have used Full Synthetic, Royal Purple is my preference, in my truck, motorcycle and other cars for years, I highly take the recommendation.

 

With the price of RP, I'm definately not cutting corners on price. I only wish the Motorcraft brand was more widely available since RP doesn't have 5w-50 but tried to convince me to use another grade.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Castrol Syntec is not synthetic oil. It is a Group III oil and I might use one in a Corolla but not a GT500.

The oil in my car, put in by the dealer, is FULL SYNTHETIC, 5w-50, and is specified in FORD's Service computer system as recommended oil for GT500. Can be used in place of the Motorcraft Oil.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The oil in my car, put in by the dealer, is FULL SYNTHETIC, 5w-50, and is specified in FORD's Service computer system as recommended oil for GT500. Can be used in place of the Motorcraft Oil.

 

Castrol has no full synthetics in 5w50. A GP III oil isn't a real synthetic, it's hydrocracked dino oil. Thems the facts. Legally, unfortunately, they can call it "Full Synthetic" as it is highly processed. Castrol Syntec is a GP III basestock and is made by BP of Houston. The only Castrol I know of that is a real GP IV synthetic is the German 0w30. Don't want to get into an argument, but if you do some research you'll find the same. You can even call Castrol and ask them. It's common knowledge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Castrol has no full synthetics in 5w50. A GP III oil isn't a real synthetic, it hydrocracked dino oil. Thems the facts. Castrol Syntec is a GP III basestock and is made by BP of Houston. The only Castrol I know of that is a real GP IV synthetic is the German 0w30.

Well, the bottle says FULL SYNTHETIC on it, and Ford is authorizing its use in our engines, so I'm good with it...

My oil is changed every 3K anyway, so im sure its holding up fine until the next change...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, the bottle says FULL SYNTHETIC on it, and Ford is authorizing its use in our engines, so I'm good with it...

My oil is changed every 3K anyway, so im sure its holding up fine until the next change...

 

Yes I know what the bottle says, I was just letting other people know. Good read here:

 

http://www.technilube.com/faqs_info/synth_diff.php

 

All Synthetics Are NOT Created Equal

In the past, it was always believed that purchasing a synthetic oil meant just that, you were buying an oil that was man made rather than a petroleum that was pumped out of the ground. Towards the end of the 1990s this all changed with the reformulation of Castrol Syntec. They had changed their formula from a PAO base stock, which was one of the most commonly used base stocks at the time, to a petroleum base that had gone through a process called Hydrocracking. This process refines the oil very well, to a point that Castrol called it a Synthetic. While doing some testing Mobil discovered the formula change and took Castrol to court claiming that they were false advertising the oil as a Synthetic, since it's base stock was made from a petroleum. Mobil's stand basically said that a "synthetic" oil is something man made in a lab to certain specification that cannot be found in nature that way, which was the common thought even consumers had at the time. Castrol's stand was that this process the oil went through was so refined that it no longer resembled anything in nature, therefore it was a "synthetic." Because the API couldn't come up with a good definition of a synthetic themselves, they accepted Castrol's definition.

 

This type of oil was less costly to produce than the PAO based synthetics (although it has been effected by the rising petroleum costs of the past few years). Unfortunately the consumer never benefited from the lower manufacturing costs, and it seems the oil manufacturers most likely made a bigger profit from each sale. This has now changed how oil is made and sold, and it's classification. There are five Groups of oils. Group I rarely is used anymore, while Group II is your common petroleum oil. This "hydrocracked" oil is commonly referred to as a Group III oil, while the PAO synthetics are a Group IV. Group V oils do exist, but are uncommon, and typically not often used for automotive use.

 

From the information given to me last, EVERY synthetic on the market today has converted over to this Group III oil, with the exception of most of the Amsoil line, Mobil 1, and a few other specialty oils, usually more difficult to find. Amsoil's XL line of oil is a Group III oil. It is not designed for the extended drains that their other lines are, therefore, the Group III formula is perfect for it's recommended drain interval. When this oil became a Group III oil, Amsoil did lower their price, unlike the competition. Amsoil's standard 25,000 mile oil and their Series 2000 is a Group IV "Genuine PAO Formulated Synthetic" oil.

 

Yet there are differences between the Group III oil qualities as well. Many manufacturers purchase a base stock that is refined just enough to push it out of a Group II classification and into the Group III where they can call it a synthetic and charge the higher price. In many cases, these oils are not much better than a quality Group II oil. In the case of the Amsoil XL oils, Amsoil purchases the highest quality Group III base stock available. This is one of the reasons it performs so well.

 

Group III oils have been around for a few years now, and are being used in other applications as well, such as Transmission Fluids and Gear Lubes, however, as time continues, it is being found and noted that they do not last as well as the PAO Synthetics. And this seems logical, it is still a Petroleum based oil, and suffers the same breakdown temps as the less refined Group II oils. For this reason, these fluids are being beefed up with additives. But rather than slowly breaking down over time, like the Group IV fluids, these fluids tend to remain stable until the additives wear out and rapidly drop in their performance and protection. For this reason, many vehicle manufacturers who were putting a synthetic into their products for the added protection, are finding that they are not getting what they expected, and it is predicted that many future Owner's Manuals will stop requiring merely a "synthetic" oil, but specify a Group IV synthetic.

 

Below are some comparisons of oils you might now even be using. This data was compiled in the Spring of 2003 by Amsoil Dealer George Kimball. Note how each rates, the "base" the oil really is, and the cost comparison of using a superior product: Amsoil!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Appreciate the info, good reading...

 

I checked in the Amsoil catalog, and also their online store... they dont have a 5W-50 weight synthetic oil?

 

Nope. It's really lame how virtually no one makes 5w50 with 25,000 + GT500's out there as well as 5,000 or so Ford GT's. Mobil 1 has a 5w50 but it isn't widely available in the USA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you read the MSDS for Motorcraft Full Synthetic 5W50 motoroil, it implies that it uses a Class III petroleum base.

 

In Section 16 - Other Information it states: "Petroleum distillate base oils used in the product are severely hydrotreated and/or solvent refined."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you read the MSDS for Motorcraft Full Synthetic 5W50 motoroil, it implies that it uses a Class III petroleum base.

 

In Section 16 - Other Information it states: "Petroleum distillate base oils used in the product are severely hydrotreated and/or solvent refined."

 

Yep. Not a synthetic either. I really find it to be false advertising. Mobil even sued Castrol for it. The only GP IV 5w50 I know of is Mobil 1 but it seems to be Europe only.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nope. It's really lame how virtually no one makes 5w50 with 25,000 + GT500's out there as well as 5,000 or so Ford GT's. Mobil 1 has a 5w50 but it isn't widely available in the USA.

VERY LAME...

Here's what i have found in my searches:

 

REDLINE

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=135&pcid=21

PENNZOIL

http://www.pennzoil.com/#/motor-oil/pennzoil-platinum

MOTORCRAFT (K-Mans site)

http://k-mansparts.com/items/mustang/filte...-qgt-detail.htm

MOBIL ONE

Now this is interesting... They dont list 5W-50 as available anymore, and when I entered all the car info, they are recommending 15W-50 weight oil as being the right one for the GT500. NOPE...

ROYAL PURPLE

Not listing a 5W-50 oil

CASTROL SYNTEC

in the $7-$8 per quart range, and pretty available

ROUSH-YATES

http://www.roushyatesparts.com/Roush_Oil_p/630293.htm (THIS OIL STATES IT IS BEING PHASED OUT???)

SUNOCO- ONLY IN U.K.???

http://www.aaoil.co.uk/racing-Sunoco-Synturo-5W-50

 

SLIM PICKINGS...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Redline may be worth trying. It is a Group 5, superior to anything.

 

Synthetic oils are group IV Polyalphaolefins (PAOs) and group V (esters) base oils [Red Line utilizes the best of the group V synthetic oils,POLYOL ESTERS, as their base oil]. These synthetic oils are “man-made” synthesized uniform molecular structures that significantly improve the efficiency and effectiveness of these oils relative to their petroleum oil competitors. More specifically, these synthetic oils have significantly lower coefficients of friction, thermal (heat) and pour-point (cold weather performance) properties than do petroleum oils. Finally, synthetic oils have no waxes, tars, or other contaminants to sludge or varnish your engine.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very interesting stuff. Still dont understand the search when Motorcraft B spec is what Ford says to use,and its available thru the Internet in a few days.Why use somehing else and possibly get into a warranty issue down the road. Im a big advocate of the KISS princilpe of engineering and managemnt, ie Keep It Simpe Stupid, (dont mean that personally to any of the posters), just it helps un-complcate things generally--PS sounds like we have an Amsoil rep inour midst

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Has anyone here actually blown their engine because of the wrong oil? Was it done during the warrenty period? Did the dealer actually sample the oil and have a qualified lab analyze it to confirm it was spec -b?

 

This is all theory here to the best of my knowledge.

 

IMO - Use a quality "synthetic" oil as close to the API rating as you can, use a high quality oil filter and change your oil every 6 months or 5,000 miles and you will be fine. If you are a hard-core racer then you might want to be a little more precise in what you run in your engine.

 

Heck, half the people on this site don't have 5,000 miles TOTAL on their car.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Redline may be worth trying. It is a Group 5, superior to anything.

 

The info I found on group V (5):

Group V (5) based synthetics are usually not compatible with petroleum or petroleum fuels and have poor seal swell. These mainly are used for air compressors, hydraulics, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm certainly not an Amsoil rep. Never used it. I like to use Mobil 1 but since their 5w50 is too hard to get in the US I have looked for other Group IV oils. Amsoil doesn't have a 5w50 either.

 

The reason I don't want to use Motorcraft or Castrol is they charge synthetic prices and are not synthetics. I don't care what the bottle says, it isn't accurate. Castrol and Motocraft are Group III and should cost no more than $2/QT.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Roush oil is being phased out

 

http://www.roushyatesparts.com/Roush_Oil_p/630293.htm

 

LOL, oil for this damn car is like liquid gold.

 

I just called Roush, they said "Valvoline cancelled the program on us, it's not coming back".

 

I called Mobil 1 and spoke with a guy, told him there are nearly 30,000 GT500's which use 5w50, he said "that isn't exactly a large market".

 

L

 

O

 

L

 

Thanks a lot for this oil type Ford!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Roush oil is being phased out

 

http://www.roushyatesparts.com/Roush_Oil_p/630293.htm

 

LOL, oil for this damn car is like liquid gold.

 

I just called Roush, they said "Valvoline cancelled the program on us, it's not coming back".

 

I called Mobil 1 and spoke with a guy, told him there are nearly 30,000 GT500's which use 5w50, he said "that isn't exactly a large market".

 

L

 

O

 

L

 

Thanks a lot for this oil type Ford!!!

 

You should of said, gt500 owners like to change their oil very frequently...

 

So, after skimming through the thread it looks like k-mans oil is the best route to go?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I HATE oil topics!!!! Lol. Well I run castrol, and will continue to do just that. All this BS about "A". "B" ect is just EPA bull shit! I can assure you that I will be able to run this car on hybrid or synthetic and have zero issues. So you guys/gals that are just worry warts do what you need to do. And I will be right beside you all the way mile for mile with my Castrol filled crank case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm certainly not an Amsoil rep. Never used it. I like to use Mobil 1 but since their 5w50 is too hard to get in the US I have looked for other Group IV oils. Amsoil doesn't have a 5w50 either.

 

The reason I don't want to use Motorcraft or Castrol is they charge synthetic prices and are not synthetics. I don't care what the bottle says, it isn't accurate. Castrol and Motocraft are Group III and should cost no more than $2/QT.

 

Chris cmon now,this is America where we pay $3 for a cup of coffee, $2 for a pt of water and 50K for a car-its all about marketting--bob

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I HATE oil topics!!!! Lol. Well I run castrol, and will continue to do just that. All this BS about "A". "B" ect is just EPA bull shit! I can assure you that I will be able to run this car on hybrid or synthetic and have zero issues. So you guys/gals that are just worry warts do what you need to do. And I will be right beside you all the way mile for mile with my Castrol filled crank case.

Todd tell us how you really feel!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Todd tell us how you really feel!!

 

Hehe lol. You know I will. Long day at work, and have access to my blackberry. Let'em have it.

 

Beside I really HATE oil topics. Lol. And when a "required" oil is this hard to acquire it just pisses me off that much more. Lol. No really...lol haha

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hehe lol. You know I will. Long day at work, and have access to my blackberry. Let'em have it.

 

Beside I really HATE oil topics. Lol. And when a "required" oil is this hard to acquire it just pisses me off that much more. Lol. No really...lol haha

 

I'm running the Castrol Syntec (what the Ford dealer said the factory wants used), with a Ford Racing oil filter... Changes every 4-5K, I'll be doing it myself from now on.

 

OK, let me open up another can of worms... What is the proper "EVIDENCE" that you are changing your oil properly and on the proper schedule, in case you need to prove it to Ford that its been done to warranty spec?

Is keeping a notebook, with receipts for the consumables good enough??? Has anybody had a warranty claim denied because in the dealers computer system they didn't have evidence of proper maintenance???

Sorry if I seem a bit paranoid, but i bought a 7 year/100,000 mile extended warranty and dont want trouble down the road.

Neil

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't blame you, I don't worry about it. If they are not telling the truth the worst that can happen is it will harm the cats in high mileage cars. It will absolutely not harm your engine. Note the Ford GT (supercar) does not require "B" spec. It's has basically the same engine.

If you want "B" spec thats fine, I'm just throwing in my .02

Totally agree. Syntec is good stuff, been using it from day 1 on all my Shelbys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does anybody put this much effort into there daily drivers? I doubt it, spill it, fill it, drive it.

 

I think there is some misconception about synthetic engine oils, There really is no such thing. They are "engineered" petroleum oils so that all the molecules are or almost the same size hence the better lubrication ability. Thoughts?

 

Mobil 1 recomended that I use 0w40 in mine, may not be a bad choice but I use the castrol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...
...