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Here's a bad rap against Livernois. Whether it's legit, I don't know. But an interesting read anyway:

http://www.modularfords.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146431

 

I've read that thread and I will say every shop has some bad builds. But if you go thru most of the forums Livernois has a far better reputation and customer service then most of the others. A few other shops to look at would be BBR, RGR, L&M and JDM

 

http://www.blowbyracing.com/

http://www.rgrengines.com/index.html

http://www.lmengines.com/

http://www.teamjdm.com/

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I've read that thread and I will say every shop has some bad builds. But if you go thru most of the forums Livernois has a far better reputation and customer service then most of the others. A few other shops to look at would be BBR, RGR, L&M and JDM

 

http://www.blowbyracing.com/

http://www.rgrengines.com/index.html

http://www.lmengines.com/

http://www.teamjdm.com/

I'm obviously not going to be able to continue with my 39# Paxton injectors, regardless of which of any of these brands of motors I go with.

Do you have an opinion on whether the OEM GT500 injectors will be more correctly sized for the new application or will I need to go even bigger than those?

 

Ken

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DSC00704.jpg

 

Sorry to hear of your problem.. I have seen this as well on other motors, mostly on the HP blocks..

It looks like either your tune is bad (who created your tune when you installed the cams, the blower etc.)

I have also seen this on motors that over rev'd. Mainly on open ocean racing boats, they come out of the water at high

speeds and if the throttleman isn't doing his job, they "bark" the motors and over rev.

Lastly, if I recall, did you say you were running the motorsports high lift cam in a previous thread? AKA hot rod cams?

If so, the cam does not provide enough valve lobe separation for the blower, this would cause predetonation,,,bad..

I am only offering possible solutions so your next build does not fail.. If you keeping the SC I would go with the 127300 grind, better offline response and

is made for the SC..

 

GNB

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LOL, you must be a much better driver than me, when i first got this thing I was bouncing off that limiter ALL the time! didn't take a long time to get the feel for the revs, but it's sooooo much more fun once you pass the 3500 mark and it doesn't "feel" done at 6200 ish... I think I'll be needing a new engine by 40k too!

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You're right, the power just keeps growing, especially above 5K, all the way to the limit.

It's difficult on the track especially, but since I'm not racing for trophies or anything, I've always very consciously limited myself at about 6K.

 

Ken

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You're right, the power just keeps growing, especially above 5K, all the way to the limit.

It's difficult on the track especially, but since I'm not racing for trophies or anything, I've always very consciously limited myself at about 6K.

 

Ken

 

Ken,,,, ummm how do you limit yourself at 6k? I mean really its like limiting yourself to just one good german beer or one trip down the Autobahn! :burnout:

 

Seriously though, I hope your able to peg the culprit of that failure and relay to us all...

 

GNB

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I'm obviously not going to be able to continue with my 39# Paxton injectors, regardless of which of any of these brands of motors I go with.

Do you have an opinion on whether the OEM GT500 injectors will be more correctly sized for the new application or will I need to go even bigger than those?

 

Ken

 

the GT500 injectors would be fine in your application, they can support 700+rwhp

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the GT500 injectors would be fine in your application, they can support 700+rwhp

Thanks. Just bought a set from mrfarmdog for cheap. They are 47# correct?

On a side note, the SGT is going to the shop Tuesday morning to get the engine dropped.

 

Ken

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Ken,

I'm sorry to hear of the failure, I've been away on vacation and this is the last thing I was expecting to be reading about once I returned...

 

Nothing I can say is going to make thing's any better.... sounds like you've got a good handle on the direction to go, good luck-

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Yeah man I had the car towed to NorCal this morning. It was ready to be towed home 6 hours later. The car is back in my garage, sans engine/exhaust/transmission.

The engine and trans are bolted together and in the bed of my truck on a pallet covered with a tarp. I'm bringing the motor to work tomorrow, where I'll finish the tear down. Also, the engine bay is due for some seriously heavy cleaning, which will be awfully easy without that hunk of aluminum in the way.

 

Jason at NorCal dumped the fresh oil and inspected it, only to find it sparkling with a whole ton of metal, almost as bad as the 3k oil had. So this engine absolutely needs to come apart. I'm still undecided as to which setup I'm going with or which shop will build it. It looks like that Livernois short block for sale in the SGT classifieds section has been sold locally, so that's out. I have a few other solid leads from other TS'ers on some other built short blocks possibly for sale in the area. If none of those pan out by the end of this week, I need to make a decision between AED (Cameron Park), MMR (Ventura), GTR (Rancho Cucamonga), and Motor Machines (Sacramento).

 

Regardless of which shop I use for the long block assembly, here is the list of upgrades that I have narrowed down for this project:

 

-machine/re-use original block

-forged stroker rotating assembly

-repair and port/polish my factory heads

-stock or stage 1 cams (no more stage 2 or 3 cams for this guy)

-Shelby radiator (Van is getting this coming)

-GT500 injectors (in the mail from mrfarmdog)

-ATI damper

-Paxton 8 rib pulley kit

-McLeod RST twin disc clutch

-McLeod 8 bolt aluminum flywheel

-McLeod adjustable throwout bearing

-Thump RRR Racing HD billet aluminum belt tensioner

-Kooks 3" long tube headers/x-pipe

-Griggs power steering cooler

 

Here are the other upgrades that I'm considering but not for sure on yet:

 

-Paxton air-to-air intercooler (waiting on final pricing from Sac Mustang)

-Samco silicone coolant hoses

-custom Revan Racing battery box mounted coolant reservoir

-high flow water pump

-Jesel billet aluminum cam followers and solid lash adjusters

-smaller blower pulley (still looking for someone that builds them for the Paxton?)

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Ken, have you checked with SHM? They were going to make Shelby engines?

 

http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/index.php...;hl=Sean+Hyland

No I won't deal with Hyland. I've read far too many horror stories of dealing with him from just about every corner of the net.

My buddy Carl (bigcarl1) has his own terrible experience with SHM, before he went with his custom build (Teksid, MMR, etc). Hearing of all the trouble Carl had with SHM is enough for me to never give the guy a dime of my own money.

But thanks for the input, I appreciate all of it.

 

Ken

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No I won't deal with Hyland. I've read far too many horror stories of dealing with him from just about every corner of the net.

My buddy Carl (bigcarl1) has his own terrible experience with SHM, before he went with his custom build (Teksid, MMR, etc). Hearing of all the trouble Carl had with SHM is enough for me to never give the guy a dime of my own money.

But thanks for the input, I appreciate all of it.

 

Ken

 

thought they may have gotten their act together now that they are a Shelby mod shop

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ken i would add light weight k member and rad support to youre list while you have it striped down.

The Griggs K-member is the only one I'll go with, but in order to do that, I'd need to spend several thousand dollars on the complete SLA/coil over setup. So that'll have to wait a bit. The rad support is another good call. I'll look into those again. Thanks Ty.

 

Ken

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Ken. This is an interesting quote that I read on another site regarding boost and stroker 5.0 motors. I thought you might like to read it. LINK

 

"IIRC the new 5.0L bores are 3.66" or 3.6X" at least, most 304 BB 5.0Ls are 3.70. We know already that you can't boost them to near stock displacement levels. So unless Ford wants the block to be the limiting factor (you have to admit a split block is a great way to tell if someone's voided their warranty) or completely redesigns the motor with different bore spacing/more meat between bores, I really truly hope it does NOT happen for everyone's sake.

Again there's a reason chevy went from 7.0L to 6.2L with the ZR1. The guys in the gulf with TT LS7 dune buggy's blow them all the time even with lower compression bottom ends.

I'm sure there are pics of a BB bore vs a stock or .020"-.030" over bore somewhere on this site.

I'd rather have a TT Al block 5.4 or even a 4.6 over the current 5.0Ls."

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^

Is this post in reference to a stroked 4.6 or the new 5.0 Coyote engine coming next year?

Either way, this is the first I've heard of boost issues with a stroked motor. There are conventional fears with stroking or boring any engine that come into the conversation frequently. But after building a couple of stroked Ford small block engines in the past few years (289 to 331, 302 to 347, and 302 to 331), I personally don't feel too worried about it.

I know that the 3V is a square design (stroke and bore are nearly identical), but gaining the displacement seems worthwhile, as long as the kit is sourced correctly. Can anyone else comment on their opinion of the quote above or on boosting strokers in general, because maybe I'm misunderstanding it. Thanks for the input Brian.

 

Ken

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^

Is this post in reference to a stroked 4.6 or the new 5.0 Coyote engine coming next year?

Either way, this is the first I've heard of boost issues with a stroked motor. There are conventional fears with stroking or boring any engine that come into the conversation frequently. But after building a couple of stroked Ford small block engines in the past few years (289 to 331, 302 to 347, and 302 to 331), I personally don't feel too worried about it.

I know that the 3V is a square design (stroke and bore are nearly identical), but gaining the displacement seems worthwhile, as long as the kit is sourced correctly and the rings are safely spaced. Can anyone else comment on their opinion of the quote above or on boosting strokers in general, because maybe I'm misunderstanding it. Thanks for the input Brian.

 

Ken

 

I believe they are talking about the current block design. On page one of that thread someone states that the new coyote engine is entirely new and incorporates more "meat" in between the bores.

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^

Well thanks for giving me another thing to worry about Brian! :lol:

 

 

I know. I just don't want to see you doing this twice. You and I both know you aren't going to leave the boost low. :shift:

 

My vote is still on you putting a 5.4 in it. I've got a friend w/ an '07 mustang GT w/ a GT500 engine in it and he loves it. He's got an upper/lower pulley combo w/ 1 7/8 headers too though, so I bet he does love it. Or Get your 4.6 De-stroked and rev that lil puppy to 8500-9000 RPMs

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Well I've finally made a decision on what I'm doing with my car.

I'm going to start a new thread to lay all that out in, however. This thread served a valuable purpose, but one that's come to a close.

It's time to move on from the 'metal in my oil' and on to the 'new metal in the mail'. :)

 

Ken

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  • 2 weeks later...

I sent the part numbers off my cams, springs, and retainers to Rick at MMR, to see if he could tell me anything about my rocker/lash adjuster failure.

Here's his response:

 

"Here is a link to comp cams website. At one time, your cams didn't require phasers but now they do.

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/...e=FRD3VCKXFISPR

You did springs but not phasers and the cams you have require a phaser limiter. This is why you had your failure. Rick"

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And this was discoverd and nobody told you....? That doesn't seem right at all. I would have thought that somebody along the way would have said, "Hey Ken, we've discoverd phasers are needed with your cams." Or, when you had the cams and springs done I would have thought someone would have said you need phasers too. Unreal Ken. Sorry.

 

Chuck

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