SGT/SC#0471 Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 If I may ask what is the price for a new PCM? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 If I may ask what is the price for a new PCM? Thanks Dunno ....I'd s.w.a.g. $800-1,000 for PCM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuLu Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 As I have stated several times before, everyone is doing their job to get this corrected and at this point, that's all anyone could ask for. In the words of one our greatest contributors (Lulu-carry on gents) I still miss him! Thank you! +1 Very much. Ditto! Y'all are missed by me as well. I'm hoping to be up and running by fall. Not to completely steel the thread but what happened to Mac (LuLu) last I heard he had been in the hospital but was recovering and would post up once he got home and got his strength back.Don I'm getting there, Don, and I hope to be back full-time soon. Meanwhile, LuLu as been healing well and I expect to be back in the saddle soon. Details to be posted then. Back to the topic at large, yes (as it has been pointed out by others). Truthfully, if you do something as insignificant as change you own oil, or, use a brand/type/weight not approved by FMC, your warranty could be in jeopardy...At least the power-train warranty. I have been all over LuLu in mods (some of which I have not revealed here...Yet) and I do not expect any service from FMC at all. However, should my stereo sytem or power windows fail, I do expect full coverage. I mentioned this to y'all some time ago (old site?) and cautioned you to not expect warranty coverage of certain systems, and for good cause. In many cases, it is truly a "dance" as you travel from one supplier to another. No manfacturer of any product anywhere will underwrite an owner's modification to their product, however, at times a "good will" gesture will slip through and cloud the issue. Many years ago, Packard-Bell manfactured personal computers with a rather generous replacement program, i.e. "send it back, we'll replace it, N/C". But, what PB was doing was replacing broken computers with refurbushed stock i.e. computers returned by other customers, rebuilt, and sent out to warranty customers. At the time, I operated by own computer repair business and I didn't think this was a bad deal myself, but once that practice landed PB in court for recycling usable components, seems the only thing wrong with it, was not telling the consumer. BTW...If you were to suffer a catrastrophic engine failure today, the replacement engine will be a refurbished long block. The Mag/Moss act does protect the owner/consumer, however, it is a civil action which need to be instituted by he who suffers a "red-lined" warranty and all reasonable efforts to settle the matter have been exhausted. Only then, can a Mag/Moss claim be filed, and the path to trial can take years. Who here wants to put their SGT up on blocks while still making payments while waiting for their day in court? Not me. Not bragging here, but I pay cash for my cars and when I blow them up, I fix them myself. I've done so since the '60s and Chevrolet's own warranty war ("5/50, if we say so"), and since 2002, FMC has bought me two 4.6L long blocks. The shenanigans involved would give y'all cold sweats at night, and in the second case, I had to restore the car to showroom stock (quite a chore) and almost failed because I forgot to restore the factor Marauder tips. Rule of thumb is "if you wanna play, be ready to pay". Mod your SGT as you feel necessary, but read the fine print of the warranty. You will see that extended warranties of aftermarket products cover that product alone as it seperates the rest of the car from the mod. Good luck to you 2873, hope all works out well. BTW, if the EEC was truly burnt to a crisp, how did they pull out four pages of code? This would suggest that the EEC is not dead, just disconnected for now. Carry on, gents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT/SC2873 Posted August 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 Dunno ....I'd s.w.a.g. $800-1,000 for PCM. $599 plus labor and tax is what they told me the other day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT/SC2873 Posted August 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 The attached document if from a SEMA briefing and summarizes the consumer's rights under the Moss-Magnusson Act ...might be usefull info. If Ford takes the position that the Whipple tune did the deed I think they're just swatting the ball into your court to force you to show evidence that the tuner box you used did not violate the interface (since the actual tune can't conceivably fry fuses). Of course you know it didn't because you used the car that way for some time and you never removed the PCM and the only interaction you've had with it is thru a tune upload, so I think they should honor it under warranty. If necessary, possibly SCT can provide you a spec on the tuner-interface? Admittedly this is all warranty-dance but I suspect Ford/dealer knows full well that the tune did not fry anything and are just doing what they have to do (under the part of Moss-Magnusson that protects them) to shift the burden of proof to you ...so if they don't do the right thing you might have to shift if back to them (tuner spec, etc). It's conceivable some wires were damaged during a SC install, etc but that's different than what they're saying. You might want to ask them if you can take a picture of the old fuse box after replacement. If they say 'no' (which they can) it might strengthen your case if push comes to shove and if they say yes it will document what seems likely to be the *real* cause. Best of luck -Dan __Warranty_Denial_Info___Fed_Law____SEMA.doc Thanks Dan, I have already told them that anything I pay for I want the old part. I know some very well respected Electrical Engineers who do independent work for the auto industry if I need to pursue that route. I tend to walk quietly with a big stick.... You are correct on your statement about the PCM fry as the guy at Ford Racing said, "No way did the tune cause this thing to fry." I relayed that info to the dealer Friday telling them they might want to all get together on this thing before they make an improper decision...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT/SC2873 Posted August 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 Rule of thumb is "if you wanna play, be ready to pay". Mod your SGT as you feel necessary, but read the fine print of the warranty. You will see that extended warranties of aftermarket products cover that product alone as it seperates the rest of the car from the mod. Good luck to you 2873, hope all works out well. BTW, if the EEC was truly burnt to a crisp, how did they pull out four pages of code? This would suggest that the EEC is not dead, just disconnected for now. Carry on, gents. Mac, great to hear from you! Come on now, you are keeping us in stiches on LuLu's mods...don't make us wait too long. Your point about the codes and the PCM had been noted and I have not asked that question yet...I was saving that one for next week in the event I need it... I have told everyone involved, all they have to do is prove to me that the "mods" caused the problem and I will pay the bill and walk away, however, if they can't do that then I am not the type who will take it lying down. Not trying to be rude, but most understand that when it comes to this type problem, there is a time and place for everything......thanks for the input and can't wait to hear more about LuLu! Take care Mac...Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT/SC#0471 Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 Rule of thumb is "if you wanna play, be ready to pay". Mod your SGT as you feel necessary, but read the fine print of the warranty. You will see that extended warranties of aftermarket products cover that product alone as it seperates the rest of the car from the mod. Good luck to you 2873, hope all works out well. BTW, if the EEC was truly burnt to a crisp, how did they pull out four pages of code? This would suggest that the EEC is not dead, just disconnected for now. Carry on, gents. Mac, great to hear from you! Come on now, you are keeping us in stiches on LuLu's mods...don't make us wait too long. Your point about the codes and the PCM had been noted and I have not asked that question yet...I was saving that one for next week in the event I need it... I have told everyone involved, all they have to do is prove to me that the "mods" caused the problem and I will pay the bill and walk away, however, if they can't do that then I am not the type who will take it lying down. Not trying to be rude, but most understand that when it comes to this type problem, there is a time and place for everything......thanks for the input and can't wait to hear more about LuLu! Take care Mac...Craig 599 is not so bad...but I agree with all your assessments and the FRPP guys...no way the SC tune could fry the thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 Thanks Dan, I have already told them that anything I pay for I want the old part. I know some very well respected Electrical Engineers who do independent work for the auto industry if I need to pursue that route. I tend to walk quietly with a big stick.... You are correct on your statement about the PCM fry as the guy at Ford Racing said, "No way did the tune cause this thing to fry." I relayed that info to the dealer Friday telling them they might want to all get together on this thing before they make an improper decision...... ....this is always the wisest approach, imo. I think they'll 'flinch' ...hope so ...clearly nothing you did ...best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKSHELBY Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 599 is not so bad...but I agree with all your assessments and the FRPP guys...no way the SC tune could fry the thing... I agree also as i have programmed lots of GM Pcm modules, if a PCM is gonna fry it will do it when you are doing the downloading.. Not later... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT/SC2873 Posted August 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 I agree also as i have programmed lots of GM Pcm modules, if a PCM is gonna fry it will do it when you are doing the downloading.. Not later... thanks for the info...I agree the $599 is not bad at all, however when you add in the diagnostic testing time, the fuse box....we're at about $1400 right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug_GT350 Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 thanks for the info...I agree the $599 is not bad at all, however when you add in the diagnostic testing time, the fuse box....we're at about $1400 right now. Don't forget the valve stems! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT/SC2873 Posted August 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 got a call from Ford dealer this afternoon. Ford has agreed to cover PCM under warranty :happy feet: They found out that once they replaced the PCM they did not need the fuse panel/box. Bad news, they won't cover the labor for all the diagnostic testing, etc. That's about $600 worth of testing....they still can't tell me what caused it and Ford Racing is saying this is the first time this has ever happened. They got the car running (in the bay) and now they are waiting on the tune from Ford Racing to install before they clear any codes, test drive and charge me the balance. Ever feel violated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShowCar Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Its been a while since Ive turned a wrench but, The diagnostic time should be covered by Ford then if not the dealer eats it. The tech gets paid and you get a free repair. The reason I state this is very simple they had to diagnose a bad PCM running a punch time from start to finish on electrical testing to verify a bad PCM. Is it possible the dealer is looking to get paid twice? Im not pointing fingers but this is a slam dunk warranty claim. I have been a ASE Journeyman tech for ten years before changing careers and never saw a PCM go bad from a tune. We used to do service bulletin tunes all the time especially when OBD-2 came out back in 1996. Just ask alot of questions before you pick the car up and pay the bill. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT/SC2873 Posted August 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Its been a while since Ive turned a wrench but, The diagnostic time should be covered by Ford then if not the dealer eats it. The tech gets paid and you get a free repair. The reason I state this is very simple they had to diagnose a bad PCM running a punch time from start to finish on electrical testing to verify a bad PCM. Is it possible the dealer is looking to get paid twice? Im not pointing fingers but this is a slam dunk warranty claim. I have been a ASE Journeyman tech for ten years before changing careers and never saw a PCM go bad from a tune. We used to do service bulletin tunes all the time especially when OBD-2 came out back in 1996. Just ask alot of questions before you pick the car up and pay the bill. Good luck. Thanks for the info. You would think that somewhere you would find someone at FORD or FORD RACING THAT WOULD CALL BS, so tonight I am out of town wondering why I patronize them.......got a call into QP to check on that end.....Now I think I know why some of the "foreign" car makers are kicking butt...I"ll feel better after one more beer and a good nights sleep......or was that 4 more beers and no sleep...can't remember... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 +1 on Showcar's comments. Dunno if they're double dipping but no way the diagnostic work is your problem ...and the tune definately did not cause the problem after the fact -- simply not possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RACERX009 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 I agree with 68fastback never did a customer in the years that, I worked for ford dealerships pay for trouble shooting and it turned to be the PCM . I said it from the start it was all BS they didn't know how to properly diagnose the problem and covering it up with the tune. My dealer loaded my tune for me from bama when the cams were done. All, I did was engine performance and trouble shooting for fords and private garages and have rewired cars with no manual. I even got taken to court by a customer after working on his car replacing his intake manifold. He refused to let me change his oil after the job and then came back a week later saying his motor was blown and it was do to a clogged pick-up. My boss offered to replace the motor free of cost he said no!! We went to court and customer lost due to my automotive back ground. Thats 18yrs ago and back then the diagnostic tools were not the greatest but, I was able to pin point a problem from a bad fuel pump relay to a bad TPS. There is no excuse for this stupiity they can't charge ford for the time cause they know ford will say eat it and hire a better tech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IASHELBYGT Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Craig, any updates on your car fix and warranty coverage? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT/SC2873 Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Craig, any updates on your car fix and warranty coverage?Dave yep, it's taken care of and back at home running strong...it is up on jack stand right now...changing out tires and getting rear wheels widened. Think I'll put some new exhaust on, clean up and paint the rear end, etc while it's got some down time and up on all 4's :happy feet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT/SC#0471 Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 got a call from Ford dealer this afternoon. Ford has agreed to cover PCM under warranty :happy feet: They found out that once they replaced the PCM they did not need the fuse panel/box. Bad news, they won't cover the labor for all the diagnostic testing, etc. That's about $600 worth of testing....they still can't tell me what caused it and Ford Racing is saying this is the first time this has ever happened. They got the car running (in the bay) and now they are waiting on the tune from Ford Racing to install before they clear any codes, test drive and charge me the balance. Ever feel violated? did you get the tuner with your s/c? The tune came with mine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT/SC2873 Posted September 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 did you get the tuner with your s/c? The tune came with mine... yes, I had the tuner. We just had to get a new tune from Ford Racing since the PCM was changed out. They sent a new disk so now I have both the old and new disks plus the tuner. Hopefully I won't need them again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT/SC#0471 Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 yes, I had the tuner. We just had to get a new tune from Ford Racing since the PCM was changed out. They sent a new disk so now I have both the old and new disks plus the tuner. Hopefully I won't need them again... Interesting, so I guess thats why FR needs the vin to send a program, must be PCM specific...I hope you never need it again as well...glad your up and running again! Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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