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Update on no start problems.........


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ok, time for an update.....tech called and PCM threw 4 pages of codes....not good. PCM is fried. Now the real question to determine is why? Bad ground somewhere or was the PCM just bad to begin with. I am really pleased with the way they are handling this. QP spent an hour and half on the phone yesterday w/ tech (thanks AJ and Glenn) helping to trouble shoot, dealer is researching today and discussing w/ Ford engineers in effort to pinpoint. Bottom line is we don't want to put new PCM in only to find out that the real problem was not corrected, i.e. a bad ground or something else. Tech said he may need to contact Shelby as well, so they are on top of it and everyone is helping. Patience is a virtue. Nothing better than a challenge! Craig

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im sorry to hear about the problem man, that really sucks, the ford guys will get things fixed pretty quick im sure. if you lived near me i would let you drive mine for alittle while just so you feel better :beerchug:

 

im sure theyll have her back and running in no time

 

PS 4 pages of codes...good lord i can't even imagine

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thanks, guys....I spent more than 1/2 my life worrying about things I couldn't control.....along about the age of 40, I decided I needed a steady diet of chill pills and since then things like this don't bother me near as much as the use to. :happy feet:

 

Hey, I know that a couple of times when, I use to work for ford dealerships the computers would fry up for no reason at all and sometimes it would be a loose ground for the computer that caused a spark as in static and can and will fry the pcm or computer. I had one where the car would run not run no codes nothing hours in, I got so pissed that I kicked the PCM as hard as possible. The other mechanic being a wise a$$ said hey that worked he turned the key it started and ran I kicked again and it died. We put another Pcm in and drove it around and let run for hours never cutting off. Customer was happy and we had no reason why it happened other than it was defective. That might be the case with yours. If anything and it's at the dealer they can put a new PCM in at no cost to you and see how it goes. I believe thats the stock PCM just had an upgraded tune from ford racing installed. I never suggest parts changing but with that my codes either your wiring harness fried which, I doubt or the PCM failed.

Not bragging but stuff like this was my thing in automotive anyone can change a part!!! But engine performance and engine wiring and computer diagnosis was my thing. That's what got me the job with the government they had parts changers when, I started there this mechanic was in the middle of replacing the wiring harness for Crown Vic . I asked what was the car doing he said it keeps blowing fuses, I said did you check the ashtrays for a dime or penny in the cigeratte light. He said its not that so, I looked myself and there was a shiny half burnt penny in it. He had fun putting the car back together The point is always start with the simple and easy stuff and work from there putting another PCM in is easy start fresh.

 

Just my 2 cents but hate to see you sit around stressing out!!!

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thanks, guys....I spent more than 1/2 my life worrying about things I couldn't control.....along about the age of 40, I decided I needed a steady diet of chill pills and since then things like this don't bother me near as much as the use to. :happy feet:

So things worked okay prior to the SC install, right? Whats QP had to say so far?

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thanks, guys....I spent more than 1/2 my life worrying about things I couldn't control.....along about the age of 40, I decided I needed a steady diet of chill pills and since then things like this don't bother me near as much as the use to. :happy feet:

 

Is life so much easier that way? I admire your patience :yup:.

 

Hey, I know that a couple of times when, I use to work for ford dealerships the computers would fry up for no reason at all and sometimes it would be a loose ground for the computer that caused a spark as in static and can and will fry the pcm or computer. I had one where the car would run not run no codes nothing hours in, I got so pissed that I kicked the PCM as hard as possible. The other mechanic being a wise a$$ said hey that worked he turned the key it started and ran I kicked again and it died. We put another Pcm in and drove it around and let run for hours never cutting off. Customer was happy and we had no reason why it happened other than it was defective. That might be the case with yours. If anything and it's at the dealer they can put a new PCM in at no cost to you and see how it goes. I believe thats the stock PCM just had an upgraded tune from ford racing installed. I never suggest parts changing but with that my codes either your wiring harness fried which, I doubt or the PCM failed.

Not bragging but stuff like this was my thing in automotive anyone can change a part!!! But engine performance and engine wiring and computer diagnosis was my thing. That's what got me the job with the government they had parts changers when, I started there this mechanic was in the middle of replacing the wiring harness for Crown Vic . I asked what was the car doing he said it keeps blowing fuses, I said did you check the ashtrays for a dime or penny in the cigeratte light. He said its not that so, I looked myself and there was a shiny half burnt penny in it. He had fun putting the car back together The point is always start with the simple and easy stuff and work from there putting another PCM in is easy start fresh.

 

Just my 2 cents but hate to see you sit around stressing out!!!

 

Welp... I definitely wouldn't be considered "wire savy." If it has to do anything with wires? Forget it. I'm calling someone, apart from the easy stuff of course.

 

I had this electrical problem with the '69 Bronco I had a while ago. The problem would knock out the alternator, battery, and fry the voltage regulator, all at different times. The alternator wouldn't put out enough voltage, so I'd replace that. Then the battery would swell up from too much, and I would test the voltage regulator, and that was shot. Replace the battery and the regulator, and then the alternator would go bad... You get my picture.

 

Finally one summer I rewired the entire truck with a painless wiring kit. End of problem!

 

Anyhew, back to topic. Let us know what happens! :salute:

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Is life so much easier that way? I admire your patience :yup:.

 

 

 

Welp... I definitely wouldn't be considered "wire savy." If it has to do anything with wires? Forget it. I'm calling someone, apart from the easy stuff of course.

 

I had this electrical problem with the '69 Bronco I had a while ago. The problem would knock out the alternator, battery, and fry the voltage regulator, all at different times. The alternator wouldn't put out enough voltage, so I'd replace that. Then the battery would swell up from too much, and I would test the voltage regulator, and that was shot. Replace the battery and the regulator, and then the alternator would go bad... You get my picture.

 

Finally one summer I rewired the entire truck with a painless wiring kit. End of problem!

 

Anyhew, back to topic. Let us know what happens! :salute:

 

Hey my buddy had a 68 Amc amx with the same problem he did the lazy fix installed another battery and it worked.

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shop called this morning and they now have the Electrical technician working to diagnose the problem. Right now they think there is a screw thru a wire somewhere :headscratch: shop just called back and said they have traced circuits, etc and can't find any problems w/ wires. Elect tech agrees PCM is bad. They are doing an emergency order on the PCM but according to them it will still take a week to get the new PCM in....oh well.....he did tell me that they will need my extra set of keys as everything will have to be reprogrammed including the Shelby tune and of course the Whipple tune. Said they would get the new PCM in and start the car in the bay without driving to check for any codes and once they verify that the new one is not throwing any codes they will then reprogram everything and will have QP on the phone while they do the tune for the Whipple, etc.

 

Service writer did ask me if car has been in any bad electrical storms..told him no, car usually is in garage and if we had one while I was gone, usually the first thing to go is my sprinkler system and it's fine. He has two cars there now where apparently lightning fried the PCM. He told me that he was calling Ford again today to see if they will honor under warranty, but not sure. I told him to just remind them for me that if they deny under warranty, someone at Ford will have to tell me exactly what modification caused the problem, and if it was the HO Whipple then I was fine, but they had to prove this to me or I would not go away. Of course, I said this in a polite way as the Service Writer and the techs have been great. Time will tell.....Craig :shift:

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well, Service writer called back....Ford will not warranty repairs due to mods. He has also ordered a new fuse panel. I asked why, he said I have 3 bad circuits in the panel and they are covering that under warranty. I then asked what caused the problem with the PCM, "I don't know." I chuckled and asked how could Ford deny warranty coverage if they didn't even know what caused the PCM to go bad, he chuckled and said don't know, just know they are pointing to the mods. I told him to go ahead and get the parts and lets get it fixed and I may want to meet with him and Ford rep next week, but someone would have to tell me in no uncertain terms what caused the damage. He agreed. I haven't talked to QP but he did say he called and discussed with the tech there today about all the reprogramming, etc.

 

At this point I am still calm and will remain so.....what's the old saying...."you'll catch more bees with honey than you will vinegar" now where the he?? did I put that :censored: honey? Craig :happy feet:

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At this point I am still calm and will remain so.....what's the old saying...."you'll catch more bees with honey than you will vinegar" now where the he?? did I put that :censored: honey? Craig :happy feet:

 

Your level of calm is admirable, and for the most part I agree with your philosophy, but at some point you are going to have to become firm about the warranty or you will end up paying for a very expensive repair.

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Your level of calm is admirable, and for the most part I agree with your philosophy, but at some point you are going to have to become firm about the warranty or you will end up paying for a very expensive repair.

thanks, and as you well know, the honey jar only holds just so much......and hopefully, I won't get to that rattle sound when it's empty :hysterical: I still believe in people doing the right thing or at least I give them the opportunity to do so...then it's whole different story...at least I have a Shelby to be worried about...for many years I would lurk in various forums about others and their problems just wondering if I would ever be able to get one. It's all relative....I guess. Certainly not the end of the world......

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thanks, and as you well know, the honey jar only holds just so much......and hopefully, I won't get to that rattle sound when it's empty :hysterical: I still believe in people doing the right thing or at least I give them the opportunity to do so...then it's whole different story...at least I have a Shelby to be worried about...for many years I would lurk in various forums about others and their problems just wondering if I would ever be able to get one. It's all relative....I guess. Certainly not the end of the world......

 

What a joke, I wished you lived closer, I know for a fact they wouldn't put you threw this crap. It sounds like a major blow off they have the equipment to trace any circuit and have to give you an answer. An your right keep come document every conversation that you have with them. You can always carry a recorder in your pocket.

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thanks, and as you well know, the honey jar only holds just so much......and hopefully, I won't get to that rattle sound when it's empty :hysterical: I still believe in people doing the right thing or at least I give them the opportunity to do so...then it's whole different story...at least I have a Shelby to be worried about...for many years I would lurk in various forums about others and their problems just wondering if I would ever be able to get one. It's all relative....I guess. Certainly not the end of the world......

 

Craig, good luck with all of this...they better not :censored: with you or they'll be sorry!

Dave

Edited by JeffIsHereToo
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Went by dealership today to deliver the Cal II and extra set of keys. My "baby" is sitting inside the garage right behind the service writers. All the guys are offering to test drive it when it gets going again. :hysterical: Met w/ Service writer, Service Mgr and discussed. The fuse box/panel should be in today or tomorrow. I asked again what was wrong w/ it. It has a bus terminal w/ 4-5 fuses on this bus..i.e. and thin metal band that powers all of these fuses. What's strange is this, if you draw a line representing the bus terminal and then put 4-5 dots on that line, the first 2 on the bus are dead but the last 3 are hot ...what's interesting about this is that all fuses on this bus should be dead...strange. We discussed the warranty and again, Ford has agreed to warranty the fuse panel, but will not warranty the PCM due to the Whipple tune. I told them all I wanted was to be treated fairly and for Ford to do the right thing. I still don't understand how a tune can do this to a PCM. Anyway, they are going to call REALTIME today which is apparently a division of Ford who has the final say on warranty type issues. I explained that it sounds to me like the problem originated in a bad fuse panel and that is why Ford is covering that. There is a glimmer of hope that once the new fuse panel is installed the PCM could be resurrected.....hope so....they will try this first and see if codes, if not, then new PCM goes in and the retuning begins. Must admit, "my baby" looked good under the lights in the garage area even is she is a little under the weather......let's see, what was it....something like, thru sickness and in health, till death.......aw :censored:, that was my other "baby". :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::cry:

Edited by SGT/SC2873
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Well I guess I have this to look forward to since I'm getting a Whipple installed! Sounds like Ford is saying ALL cars must have this problem if they're pointing at the SC as being the cause. Yet this is the first..... I suppose that if there were two cars in a parking lot and they both were struck with lightening only the one without the SC would be covered!

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Well I guess I have this to look forward to since I'm getting a Whipple installed! Sounds like Ford is saying ALL cars must have this problem if they're pointing at the SC as being the cause. Yet this is the first..... I suppose that if there were two cars in a parking lot and they both were struck with lightening only the one without the SC would be covered!

:hysterical::hysterical:

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talked w/ tech at QP...they called Ford Racing who confirmed anything over 400 hsp no warranty....they also said shop should be looking for open ground as it is very unlikely that the tune for the PCM had anything to do with this...I agree....also, he cleared up the issue with what needs to be done w/ the Cal II...shop will have to send disk to Ford Racing to reprogram for new PCM which will probalby take a couple of more days. Nothing like fun........ :happy feet:

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Well I guess I have this to look forward to since I'm getting a Whipple installed! Sounds like Ford is saying ALL cars must have this problem if they're pointing at the SC as being the cause. Yet this is the first..... I suppose that if there were two cars in a parking lot and they both were struck with lightening only the one without the SC would be covered!

 

 

Now I have had my Whipple on for almost 2 years and many track miles and have never had an issue. Acually, I need to get this back on the dyno as the engine has freed up quite a bit since it was installed. Be interesting to see what she puts down now.

 

Roger

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Now I have had my Whipple on for almost 2 years and many track miles and have never had an issue. Acually, I need to get this back on the dyno as the engine has freed up quite a bit since it was installed. Be interesting to see what she puts down now.

 

Roger

My post was meant in pure sarcasim Roger, I hope you realized that. It just seems that the SC gives everyone a reason not to warranty a car. Next thing ya know the faulty valve stems on the tires are caused by the heat in the SC.

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My post was meant in pure sarcasim Roger, I hope you realized that. It just seems that the SC gives everyone a reason not to warranty a car. Next thing ya know the faulty valve stems on the tires are caused by the heat in the SC.

Doug,

 

that's even better than the first one! :hysterical: No one who reads this thread should be discouraged if they are considering the SC install, that is not what this is about. This is one of the rare situations that is probably one in a million and I happen to be the one. I haven't called anyone out and won't (or at least try my best not to) it is what is, information only and should not be taken any other way. Just want to make sure everyone understands this and who knows, someone may find it helpful when we finally find out what the problem is, if in fact we ever do. Bottomline, if I'm handling it calmly, then surely everyone else can as well. As I have stated several times before, everyone is doing their job to get this corrected and at this point, that's all anyone could ask for. In the words of one our greatest contributors (Lulu-carry on gents) I still miss him! Craig :happy feet:

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The attached document if from a SEMA briefing and summarizes the consumer's rights under the Moss-Magnusson Act ...might be usefull info.

 

If Ford takes the position that the Whipple tune did the deed I think they're just swatting the ball into your court to force you to show evidence that the tuner box you used did not violate the interface (since the actual tune can't conceivably fry fuses). Of course you know it didn't because you used the car that way for some time and you never removed the PCM and the only interaction you've had with it is thru a tune upload, so I think they should honor it under warranty. :shrug:

 

If necessary, possibly SCT can provide you a spec on the tuner-interface? Admittedly this is all warranty-dance but I suspect Ford/dealer knows full well that the tune did not fry anything and are just doing what they have to do (under the part of Moss-Magnusson that protects them) to shift the burden of proof to you ...so if they don't do the right thing you might have to shift if back to them (tuner spec, etc).

 

It's conceivable some wires were damaged during a SC install, etc but that's different than what they're saying. You might want to ask them if you can take a picture of the old fuse box after replacement. If they say 'no' (which they can) it might strengthen your case if push comes to shove and if they say yes it will document what seems likely to be the *real* cause.

 

Best of luck

 

-Dan

 

 

__Warranty_Denial_Info___Fed_Law____SEMA.doc

__Warranty_Denial_Info___Fed_Law____SEMA.doc

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