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Super Snake with a hiccup


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Have a friend of mine with a Super Snake who does not access the internet. I thought I would throw this out for him and see if there are any similar problems like his. :headscratch:

 

He's got the 725 hp option ... runs like a raped ape .. until recently .. it developed a slight misfire and a bit down on power in the lower rpm's. At idle thru around 5000 rpm the miss is evident .. then it seems to disappear or at least be insignificant above that. He explains the misfire at idle as being like the car is cammed .. and its random, not a misfire that is missing every time the cylinder fires.

 

He took it to the local Ford dealer (which makes us both cringe) .. they could not figure out the problem. No codes .. they did a compression check and #8 came back as low .. how much, he wasn't told. That makes me wonder if its a cracked ring .. or bent valve. Either way, I'm not familiar with the Super Snake enough to know all the in's and out's. I'm here just to give him a hand in figuring this out so the dealer doesn't tear down the engine to find nothing wrong. :banghead:

 

Any idea's from you guru's? I would imagine even KR thinking would apply here too .. thanks for any input guys. I'll pass this all along to him.

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The first thing that I would would be to contact Kenny Bell.

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The first thing that I would would be to contact Kenny Bell.

He has been in contact with a Kenny Bell rep ... apparently one that works on the race teams. Not sure of the name, but he has several working on it from KB and Shelby ... so far, its been in the shop for close to a week with little or no feedback.

He was told that his is the 1st SS with a documented problem .. even though the problem is unknown.

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He has been in contact with a Kenny Bell rep ... apparently one that works on the race teams. Not sure of the name, but he has several working on it from KB and Shelby ... so far, its been in the shop for close to a week with little or no feedback.

He was told that his is the 1st SS with a documented problem .. even though the problem is unknown.

 

Interesting topic. How hard has your buddy been running the car? Any idea of what kind of driving he has put the engine through? I've read many posts here where owners have really been thrashing these SS cars and having no problem. How many miles after his car was SS'd did the problem occur? Please keep us informed of this unusual occurance. Maybe an assembly error at the factory that just now from wear and tear surfaced. Only dissassembly of the engine for diagnosis will your answer surface.

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I'd go and recheck the compression again. If she's still low, it is reason enough to tear the engine apart for me. How much low is it? Geez... that would bug the snot out of me knowing my engine is hurt. Burn any oil?

No hiccups in mine, and yes she goes like a double raped ape, passing the bat outta hell all night long with the cooling pack on it. :shift::salute:

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I've been unable to reach the owner to find specifics on his SS problem. I know when I 1st talked with him, I said spark plug before he even finished the whole story. But then when he mentioned that cylinder #8 was supposedly down on compression I was perplexed. On top of all this, the check engine light never illuminated .. or popped a code to retrieve. So that to me, means there is not a problem with cylinder #8 .. the processor senses differences in power cylinder to cylinder and pops a hard code when one is detected.

 

Unfortunately I'm not real familiar with the SS or Whipple chargers .. I've run Prochargers before but on a 5.0, not a modular engine. So while there are some similarities to look for, I'm likely going to be of little help for him. He mentioned like I said above, the car developed a random misfire ... under load or sitting at idle, it didn't matter .. yet above 5000 rpm was unnoticeable. To me that would not indicate a bad cylinder. Maybe a bad plug, vacuum leak or something similar I could accept, but the whole cylinder thing I have a hard time with. Does anyone know if when you crack a ring, this is a common symptom? Plus I would think when they did the compression check at the Ford dealer, they would notice oil on the plug in #8. According to Paul, he said the dealer had no idea and was calling and asking for help from Shelby and Whipple.

 

I keep thinking this sounds like a bad plug or vacuum leak .. is anyone with me? Has anyone heard of intake gasket failures with the Whipples?

Edited by SALEEN367
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Interesting topic. How hard has your buddy been running the car? Any idea of what kind of driving he has put the engine through? I've read many posts here where owners have really been thrashing these SS cars and having no problem. How many miles after his car was SS'd did the problem occur? Please keep us informed of this unusual occurrence. Maybe an assembly error at the factory that just now from wear and tear surfaced. Only disassembly of the engine for diagnosis will your answer surface.

This is a street car for him and nothing more .. he drives it occasionally to work some 45 miles away. He doesn't race .. plays with Ferrari's, Vette's and others on the street, but nothing major. Paul doesn't seem like the type to abuse the car .. he's a Mustang guy from way back .. thats how we met. I'm not sure of the mileage ... I would guess since he drove it out to Vegas it has anywhere between 4000 and 7500 miles on it.

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I've been unable to reach the owner to find specifics on his SS problem. I know when I 1st talked with him, I said spark plug before he even finished the whole story. But then when he mentioned that cylinder #8 was supposedly down on compression I was perplexed. On top of all this, the check engine light never illuminated .. or popped a code to retrieve. So that to me, means there is not a problem with cylinder #8 .. the processor senses differences in power cylinder to cylinder and pops a hard code when one is detected.

 

Unfortunately I'm not real familiar with the SS or Whipple chargers .. I've run Prochargers before but on a 5.0, not a modular engine. So while there are some similarities to look for, I'm likely going to be of little help for him. He mentioned like I said above, the car developed a random misfire ... under load or sitting at idle, it didn't matter .. yet above 5000 rpm was unnoticeable. To me that would not indicate a bad cylinder. Maybe a bad plug, vacuum leak or something similar I could accept, but the whole cylinder thing I have a hard time with. Does anyone know if when you crack a ring, this is a common symptom? Plus I would think when they did the compression check at the Ford dealer, they would notice oil on the plug in #8. According to Paul, he said the dealer had no idea and was calling and asking for help from Shelby and Whipple.

 

I keep thinking this sounds like a bad plug or vacuum leak .. is anyone with me? Has anyone heard of intake gasket failures with the Whipples?

I would do a quick check of each coil on the plugs, just disconect one at a time at idle, if one is faulty you wont notice a change in idle, that would be the bad one. I dont think compression the problem.

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UPDATE

 

To make a long story, short .. the car was tampered with when sitting parked ... Paul had noticed the hood pins undone one day and thought it was alarming but couldn't find anything wrong other then the obvious.

 

Turns out it was far worse ... as you can see, some tool put something into the cold air tube and it went through the engine destroying it. I'd have a bounty out on this guy.

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UPDATE

 

To make a long story, short .. the car was tampered with when sitting parked ... Paul had noticed the hood pins undone one day and thought it was alarming but couldn't find anything wrong other then the obvious.

 

Turns out it was far worse ... as you can see, some tool put something into the cold air tube and it went through the engine destroying it. I'd have a bounty out on this guy.

 

This is very sad that people are like that. What can we do to prevent this? Is there a way to lock the hood?

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UPDATE

 

To make a long story, short .. the car was tampered with when sitting parked ... Paul had noticed the hood pins undone one day and thought it was alarming but couldn't find anything wrong other then the obvious.

 

Turns out it was far worse ... as you can see, some tool put something into the cold air tube and it went through the engine destroying it. I'd have a bounty out on this guy.

Oh man that hurts. Hope you find the a$$ that did that.

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I know the feeling, my car was sitting in my driveway and I a live in a nice area. I walked out to go to work in the morning and found that I had four flat tires. All four tires we slashed, 1,800.00 to replace them.

 

On a positive note I talked my wife into adding 20" razors to the car.

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I know the feeling, my car was sitting in my driveway and I a live in a nice area. I walked out to go to work in the morning and found that I had four flat tires. All four tires we slashed, 1,800.00 to replace them.

 

On a positive note I talked my wife into adding 20" razors to the car.

 

 

That’s a great Idea!

 

You: “Honey, I need new tires and rims”.

Her: “What’s that behind your back!”

You: “Nutin”.

Her: “Where’s my paring knife?”

You: “Did I tell you how much I love you today?”

 

Good luck!!! :lol2:

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Sounds like insurance is going to consider it .. but they are dragging their feet.

 

I do believe the SS has a hood latch .. the owner is not real vigilant at locking his doors unfortunately. If worse comes to worse, he can review some nearby bldg security tapes that may or may not show who tampered with it.

 

I have no idea what went through the engine, but it had to be small enough to slip past the valve and into the cylinder after being chewed up by the Whipple. I would guess a coin.

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Looks like sand or glass beads to do damage like that.

You can notice on the top of the intercooler, or air charge cooler that is part of the supercharger intake, there are small shavings of metal .. appears to be aluminum or nickel .. making me think it was just that ... a dime or nickel.

Whatever it was had to be damn small to pass through the intercooler and past a valve. I'm sure by the time it got past the supercharger vanes, there wasn't much left of it.

 

Excuse the photo quality .. cell phone. :(

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Edited by SALEEN367
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You can notice on the top of the intercooler, or air charge cooler that is part of the supercharger intake, there are small shavings of metal .. appears to be aluminum or nickel .. making me think it was just that ... a dime or nickel.

Whatever it was had to be damn small to pass through the intercooler and past a valve. I'm sure by the time it got past the supercharger vanes, there wasn't much left of it.

 

Excuse the photo quality .. cell phone. :(

 

Unbelievable! I almost wonder if they were simply metal shavings, or something. You have to think, it would take a lot of force to really get a nickel running down the intake, and a lot of clinking and clacking. Metal shavings of some sort, on the other hand, can flow in and you may not notice a problem until they hit the engine...

 

You really have to wonder who would do such a thing!

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Talked with a good friend of mine over the weekend who also examined at the damage to the engine. What has both of us perplexed is why cylinder #8 is the only one destroyed .. how can that be?

 

Anyone that knows how these superchargers sit on the engine, knows that anything going in the intake valve has to first pass through the intercooler. This is a radiator(heat exchanger) looking unit that sits directly below the supercharger. So, anything being unfortunate enough to get through the supercharger vanes, it needs to pass through that intercooler .. only tiny bits and pieces. And then why only into #8 and not #4 also?

 

And why is the damage to the piston as it is? There is still some question in my mind as to IF this could be an example of piston failure .. some of the piston debris being pulled through the intake valve under heavy vacuum and reintroduced into the intake tract ..

 

We are both going to suggest to Paul that he sends the car with the parts as they are back out to Shelby in an enclosed trailer to have Shelby examine the damage and see if they come to the same conclusion as Ford. Costly indeed, but how else will he ever know ... being rebuilt .. at that point it would once again be a true Super Snake.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Apparently the insurance company is coming through to cover this loss ... they called Ford and said order the parts, so thats a start. Kenny Bell on the other hand, said send in the supercharger for rebuilding ... they don't want anything left on the salvage market that has their name on it, so they rebuild instead of replace. I would imagine this will take 30-60 days to get finished. Then there's the whole issue of whether the new (rebuilt) engine will require a new tune. Seems like every engine is different from the next, so I would assume so ... but where will it be done and who will assume the cost of that. ???

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