ADMs are dropping on ebay

[Grabber]

Boy, you guys missed my whole point, I am not surprised you guys think the way you do. I didn't say anything negative about the GT500. As I mentioned, I will really consider one when it hits MSRP. You will see very soon what I was taking about.

 

3 months ago, many like you were predicting MSRP by now. We are no where even close, so I have little faith in your prediction. You will see very soon what I AM TALKING ABOUT.

[KCMO-GT500]

Boy, you guys missed my whole point, I am not surprised you guys think the way you do. I didn't say anything negative about the GT500. As I mentioned, I will really consider one when it hits MSRP. You will see very soon what I was taking about.

 

 

 

hey 67, rather than jump into an argument with board members that have been here and active for quite some time, you might consider taking a step back and reread what you posted and try to understand why you are getting negative reactions. You posted (strongly) your opinion, but as fact, about the intelligence of anyone who pays adm, and a comparison of the shelby to some other cars. Why would you think that would be especially welcome?

 

this is a good group, we try to get along, and when issues are judgemental, we express things as opinion, not established fact. I hope you do stick around, but would ask that you try to understand the environment that we try to operate in over here, in here or whatever

[Alloy Dave]

Dave,

I got your level head here

 

 

I think Sunday we have some decent weather coming. I'll be off on Tuesday but am taking the 2.5 yr old to the auto show so that day may be out. I'll PM you my cel number and when you get up this way just let me know....but I can make it from 465 to Columbus pretty damn quick these days

 

It really will help you in many ways too - handing over a check that large for something you never have driven is a crazy feeling. I put a lot of faith in what I had expected andhonestly...........I wasn't even close. You can not imagine the feeling of this thing, the attention, the pride.

 

I'll have my VMP tune in probably before this week end but we can flash back so you can see stock then turn on the tune and see the difference. I've got no problem letting people that know what they are driving taking it for a spin, it's actually fun to see their reaction because the car has a lot more than you do starting out, meaning you will lose nerve before it even thinks of losing power or slowing down.

 

I got your PM, thanks. Sunday is Christmas Eve....I'll be out of town. With the holidays it may have to be middle of next week...we'll see. Do you work next week? Our company is shut down the week between Christmas and New Years, so I'm off all week.

 

It's possible that I'll get my car in the next week. If so, we could still rendezvous for lunch and a photo op.

 

Dave

[67TransAm]

I don't think I was trying to start an argument. I'm trying to say that paying 25 to 30K over sticker for a car, any car, is ridiculous. That is it!!!! Again you missed my point.

 

Like I mentioned, people were running around throwing 100K over for a Ford GT and look what happen!!! Where is that money now?? It doesn't take genius to figure out that these cars are not investments.

[Alloy Dave]

hey 67, rather than jump into an argument with board members that have been here and active for quite some time, you might consider taking a step back and reread what you posted and try to understand why you are getting negative reactions. You posted (strongly) your opinion, but as fact, about the intelligence of anyone who pays adm, and a comparison of the shelby to some other cars. Why would you think that would be especially welcome?

 

this is a good group, we try to get along, and when issues are judgemental, we express things as opinion, not established fact. I hope you do stick around, but would ask that you try to understand the environment that we try to operate in over here, in here or whatever

 

kc for president.

[KCMO-GT500]

I don't think I was trying to start an argument. I'm trying to say that paying 25 to 30K over sticker for a car, any car, is ridiculous. That is it!!!! Again you missed my point.

 

Like I mentioned, people were running around throwing 100K over for a Ford GT and look what happen!!! Where is that money now?? It doesn't take genius to figure out that these cars are not investments.

 

 

 

67, I really think pretty clearly most of the time, and I do understand what you are saying. My thoughts on this are that the car has a value that differs from person to person, if not worth 20-30k adm to you, that is ok. If it is worth it to another, that is also ok, it is their money and their value point. No reason to be negative toward folks who differ from you. I also agree that 20-30K adm is more than I would pay right now, but I am writing a check tomorrow for 10K adm, does that make me an idiot in your mind? I assure you, people that know me don't think so (although they have other words to describe me, much less kind I am sure). As far as investments go, don't bank on any tangible property without a proven track record. Stuff like that is hit or miss. I am old enough that I am not concerned with 40 years from now, I just want to enjoy the car.

 

My biggest concern is how you express your thoughts; you may have a kind heart, but your words are pretty cutting and challenging. No need for that here, we are much easier to talk to on this board.

 

kc for president.

 

 

 

..only if I can have Monica, or her evil twin, as my assistant

[Grabber]

I don't think I was trying to start an argument. I'm trying to say that paying 25 to 30K over sticker for a car, any car, is ridiculous. That is it!!!! Again you missed my point.

 

Like I mentioned, people were running around throwing 100K over for a Ford GT and look what happen!!! Where is that money now?? It doesn't take genius to figure out that these cars are not investments.

 

Mr 67,

I do not want to argue. I have been here a while and have seen some trends on this car. I am no expert and do not want to be. I am going to be 46 in in a week or so. I am in a point in my life where I can afford to pay the ADM of 15K to have the car of my dreams. I have worked hard all my life for every thing I have, and this car is no different. I am a blue collar worker, a Craftsman by trade. My kids college fund is robust. My house is almost paid for. I will spend my money the way I want, and do not need you bashing me for it.

 

This car is not a investment for 98% of the people on this board. It is a thrill, a pleasure, a hobby, a gift that we have earned. Do you understand where I am comming from ?

[67TransAm]

My Apologies.

 

http://www.shelbyforums.com/gallery/browse...&userid=452

 

Just so you will believe I am not a mustang basher.

[Alloy Dave]

I don't think I was trying to start an argument. I'm trying to say that paying 25 to 30K over sticker for a car, any car, is ridiculous. That is it!!!! Again you missed my point.

 

Like I mentioned, people were running around throwing 100K over for a Ford GT and look what happen!!! Where is that money now?? It doesn't take genius to figure out that these cars are not investments.

 

It may be rediculous to you, but not to others.

[90GT]

It may be rediculous to you, but not to others.

 

 

 

True, others perceive the car to be worth the additional markup. My problem with the ADM's is that they are preventing some people from purchasing the car. I can afford to pay 45k for the car but not the 55 - 60k that the car is going for. Every one who wants the car should be able to get one and that's not how it's working out. I'm not so sure that this is what Shelby wants either.

[jcthorne]

True, others perceive the car to be worth the additional markup. My problem with the ADM's is that they are preventing some people from purchasing the car. I can afford to pay 45k for the car but not the 55 - 60k that the car is going for. Every one who wants the car should be able to get one and that's not how it's working out. I'm not so sure that this is what Shelby wants either.

 

 

It is quite obvious from this comment that you have no understanding of a open market economy. If EVERY dealer sold EVERY Shelby at MSRP, there would be no more folks with these cars than there already are. The distribution would be slightly different as it likely would have been some sort of lottery system but this system where those willing to pay the most get the cars first is just how our economy works. It is simple supply and demand. No one is ENTITLED to a Shelby. Those that want one bad enough have or are getting one either by paying the ADM at a local dealer or doing the search and rescue work to find one at a better deal. A little too late for finding one at msrp now those are pretty much long gone.

 

All this wishing that those with the money to buy and enjoy the car now would put thier money away so those that cannot afford the car can have one instead is stupid and contrary to an open market free society.

 

I am no one special. Just a working stiff like most here. I too knew from the get go in 2004 when this car was first mentioned that ADMs would run rampent and I could not compeat with the Bill Gates of the world. I know the only way would be to do lots of leg work and searching. Getting my car now rather than early next year was a lucky draw for my small town dealer but I was getting a 2007.

 

One of the really nice things about driving this car is the knowing that most folks that see it cannot have one as they either do not have the $$ or the inclination to do the homework to get one. Does not excuse the dealers that lied and stole from folks with 'firm' deals. That was just plain wrong and I know there are severl cases winding thier way through courts. It happend to me twice before the deal I finally got.

 

Quit complaining and get the car if you want one so bad. There will be quite a few of them. Hau was right, everyone that WANTS one will get one. Eventually.

[90GT]

It is quite obvious from this comment that you have no understanding of a open market economy. If EVERY dealer sold EVERY Shelby at MSRP, there would be no more folks with these cars than there already are. The distribution would be slightly different as it likely would have been some sort of lottery system but this system where those willing to pay the most get the cars first is just how our economy works. It is simple supply and demand. No one is ENTITLED to a Shelby. Those that want one bad enough have or are getting one either by paying the ADM at a local dealer or doing the search and rescue work to find one at a better deal. A little too late for finding one at msrp now those are pretty much long gone.

 

All this wishing that those with the money to buy and enjoy the car now would put thier money away so those that cannot afford the car can have one instead is stupid and contrary to an open market free society.

 

I am no one special. Just a working stiff like most here. I too knew from the get go in 2004 when this car was first mentioned that ADMs would run rampent and I could not compeat with the Bill Gates of the world. I know the only way would be to do lots of leg work and searching. Getting my car now rather than early next year was a lucky draw for my small town dealer but I was getting a 2007.

 

One of the really nice things about driving this car is the knowing that most folks that see it cannot have one as they either do not have the $$ or the inclination to do the homework to get one. Does not excuse the dealers that lied and stole from folks with 'firm' deals. That was just plain wrong and I know there are severl cases winding thier way through courts. It happend to me twice before the deal I finally got.

 

Quit complaining and get the car if you want one so bad. There will be quite a few of them. Hau was right, everyone that WANTS one will get one. Eventually.

 

 

 

I figured some one would come back with the open market excuse. :beatdeadhorse:

 

The ADM's are put on by the dealer because they are GREEDY!!!! Bottom line. Don't try to explain it any other way because it's falling on deaf ears and I don't want to hear it. If it wasn't for the ADM's I'd be driving the car and I have a right to voice my frustration over it. I was on a list for a MSRP deal, had a $14,000.00 deposit on the car, but my dealer got greedy and decided to charge 15k over MSRP so the deal fell through. Hence my anger and frustration.

[Alloy Dave]

True, others perceive the car to be worth the additional markup. My problem with the ADM's is that they are preventing some people from purchasing the car. I can afford to pay 45k for the car but not the 55 - 60k that the car is going for. Every one who wants the car should be able to get one and that's not how it's working out. I'm not so sure that this is what Shelby wants either.

 

If the price were fixed at MSRP, then not everyone who wanted one could get one either. That's exactly why there are ADMs...the demand is greater than the supply. We live in a free market economy where the pricing is permitted to float to meet supply and demand. After all, in MSRP the "S" stands for "Suggested".

 

I do realize that autos are one of the few instances where ADMs are used, but in other areas the supply and demand issue is handled differently. For example, with Xbox games, people buy them at the MSRP of (not sure of the price...so I'm making this number up) $400, then re-sell them on Ebay for $600.

 

You can say you think it's wrong, you can avoid participating in it, you can do whatever you want, but it's not illegal and it is real.

 

The real answer would be for Ford to produce many more. Interestingly there are some people on the forum that are upset that Ford is making SO MANY...they want their car to be rare. There's nothing wrong with this either...all I'm saying is that even here in "enthusiast land" we don't all agree.

 

I hope you do find a deal that you can live with. Good luck.

 

Dave

[jrichard]

I figured some one would come back with the open market excuse. :beatdeadhorse:

 

The ADM's are put on by the dealer because they are GREEDY!!!! Bottom line. Don't try to explain it any other way because it's falling on deaf ears and I don't want to hear it. If it wasn't for the ADM's I'd be driving the car and I have a right to voice my frustration over it. I was on a list for a MSRP deal, had a $14,000.00 deposit on the car, but my dealer got greedy and decided to charge 15k over MSRP so the deal fell through. Hence my anger and frustration.

 

 

I think your problem is with a dealer that is dishonest...he broke a deal. The fact that he broke the deal because he could get more money than MSRP is irrelevant. Think of it this way: suppose you had a deal to buy the car for INVOICE. Then the dealer broke that deal with you because he could sell the car for MSRP. Would you then bash on MSRP as being a bad thing? (...I guess the argument would go, "...MSRP is horrible...it gives greedy dealers the excuse to charge more than invoice...")

 

Dishonesty does not equal a dealer who adds mark up. Think Five Oh B....great guy...apparently honest...adds mark up.

 

Though it falls on deaf ears, the fact is that if the cars all sold at MSRP, the number of folks left without a GT500 (...and who really want a GT500...) would be the same. It'd just be different folks. If you think you'd benefit from that distribution, then it'll seem more "fair" to you than the current distribution.

 

And just so you know that I share your frustration dealers breaking deals: I had one dealer break a handshake MSRP deal with me. I had another dealer break a written MSRP deal with me. I have a couple of thousand dollars into attorney fees over it. The problem is not ADM...it's dishonesty.

 

I'll stop beating a dead horse.

[Alloy Dave]

I figured some one would come back with the open market excuse. :beatdeadhorse:

 

The ADM's are put on by the dealer because they are GREEDY!!!! Bottom line. Don't try to explain it any other way because it's falling on deaf ears and I don't want to hear it. If it wasn't for the ADM's I'd be driving the car and I have a right to voice my frustration over it. I was on a list for a MSRP deal, had a $14,000.00 deposit on the car, but my dealer got greedy and decided to charge 15k over MSRP so the deal fell through. Hence my anger and frustration.

 

If you don't want to hear it, then I recommend you avoid posting on the issue...people on the forum are not going to be quiet just because you tell them to. If it wasn't for the ADMs, then SOMEONE ELSE would not be driving the car. The one that you ended up buying would be a car that SOMEONE ELSE was willing to pay more for. It's interesting that you are concerned with getting a car for yourself, but to heck with everyone else. Sure, you SAY that you want everyone to have a car...but that's not possible if you eliminate ADMs...you seem to want it both ways.

 

Dave

 

Though it falls on deaf ears, the fact is that if the cars all sold at MSRP, the number of folks left without a GT500 (...and who really want a GT500...) would be the same. It'd just be different folks. If you think you'd benefit from that distribution, then it'll seem more "fair" to you than the current distribution.

 

 

jr....I just read this after posting my memos above. This is EXACTLY what I was saying in my post...I agree completely and think you said it better than I did.

 

Dave

[iceman]

If the price were fixed at MSRP, then not everyone who wanted one could get one either. That's exactly why there are ADMs...the demand is greater than the supply. We live in a free market economy where the pricing is permitted to float to meet supply and demand. After all, in MSRP the "S" stands for "Suggested".

 

I do realize that autos are one of the few instances where ADMs are used, but in other areas the supply and demand issue is handled differently. For example, with Xbox games, people buy them at the MSRP of (not sure of the price...so I'm making this number up) $400, then re-sell them on Ebay for $600.

 

You can say you think it's wrong, you can avoid participating in it, you can do whatever you want, but it's not illegal and it is real.

 

The real answer would be for Ford to produce many more. Interestingly there are some people on the forum that are upset that Ford is making SO MANY...they want their car to be rare. There's nothing wrong with this either...all I'm saying is that even here in "enthusiast land" we don't all agree.

 

I hope you do find a deal that you can live with. Good luck.

 

Dave

 

 

 

Agreed - but it blows when there is a deal in place and some one gets hosed. That's where I draw the line. I have no problem with selling the thing for what you can get, but once a deal is in place live up to your word.....Problem is it goes both ways. Buyers don't always come through either....but usually it's because their eyes are bigger than their wallet so to speak. In anycase - I feel the pain of the ADM. I was certain I would not pay one but I just wanted it and caved to the market. I am really sorry about those people that got hosed because of greed. When a deal is in place and that happens I agree you deserve to bitch and it is nothing more than greed...and it sucks for you. I really hope you find a deal that works out. If I hear of any I'll post on here and there is hope because I know many people have gotten a car already and are still on lists at other places (multiple usually) and that may create a false view of the actual demand....but I still think it's going to be a while realistically before the ADM goes fully away. The press, hype, etc for this car is still out there.

[Alloy Dave]

Agreed - but it blows when there is a deal in place and some one gets hosed. That's where I draw the line. I have no problem with selling the thing for what you can get, but once a deal is in place live up to your word.

Completely agree. Those dealers who break deals should see the wrath of customers.

 

AD

[Grabber]

I figured some one would come back with the open market excuse. :beatdeadhorse:

 

The ADM's are put on by the dealer because they are GREEDY!!!! Bottom line. Don't try to explain it any other way because it's falling on deaf ears and I don't want to hear it. If it wasn't for the ADM's I'd be driving the car and I have a right to voice my frustration over it. I was on a list for a MSRP deal, had a $14,000.00 deposit on the car, but my dealer got greedy and decided to charge 15k over MSRP so the deal fell through. Hence my anger and frustration.

 

Jim,

Not many cars that roll thru the ford dealerships draw ADM. This is a cash cow car for them. (or Goat in Daves case ). Most dealers are only getting 1 car maybe 2, and a few big time dealers get 3-4. You know all this.

 

I understand your frustration on the deal that you had. What a bummer. This should be a good reminder to people that a Rock solid contract is needed on these cars. Added verbage on the contract with a managers signature will hold up in court.

 

I hope you are not mad at me for paying ADM. It comes across that way.

[Blue Oval]

I paid +13k for mine. See sig for details. It is my favorite car that I have had, and I have had quite a few. I love the mustang heritage that it has. Every time I drive it, I think "yep, this is what I work for". I am not looking for this car to be an investment. I look at it this way, if I do all of the things that they do on the anniversary package, I am defacing the car. If Shelby does it (and I like everything they do) the value increases. We'll see what they go for on ebay. I would say more than $100k easily. There are only gonna be 1000 of them. I am number 50-something on the list. I would say mine will get done in March. My Saleen is more of an investment to me now, and I don't get to enjoy it, but it is only one of one. That won't happen with this car. I do plan to drive the car 3-4k miles per year.

 

Mine is a black-tungsten convertible, it will be the same as what is on the website. I saw that one in person...very cool.

[Grabber]

There are 12 GT500's on E-bay and the buy it now prices are:

84,999

62,500

63,395

65,000

62,880

55,000

64,995

79,500

67,500

63,500

75,000

65,000

 

I thought I heard someone say that e-bay prices are dropping. Thought I would check for myself. It looks to me that they are the same if not higher than when I made my deal back in October. I remember getting bashed around a little bit for cutting a 15K ADM deal in Oct for a Q1 build because folks were saying that come Q1 we would be seeing MSRP. I am glad I let the little head do the thinking for the big one.

[Fordrules]

The thing about ADM's and whether people are crazy or not is relative to how much that $1 means to them. I have had a lot and I have had very few at times. When you have a lot it tends to be easier to spread around quicker. I think the guy who said ADM's will go down but MSRP will go up hits it on the nose.

[jrichard]

Yeah, I'm surprised that prices haven't come down more quickly. I thought we'd be below $10k ADM by now.

 

I think the best way to track prices on eBay is to look at completed auctions...both where the bidding died on "reserve not met" endings and winning bids.

 

Looking at those numbers, recent sales / end of bidding are typically between $55 and $60k. So, to my eye, it looks like prices have stalled in the $10-15k over range. On the lower side for convertibles, higher side for coupes. I look at eBay about once a month and I think that's about where prices were mid-November.

 

Contrary to what seems to be the conventional wisdom around here, I think eBay is an excellent indicator of the market value of GT500s simply because any of us can easily buy a car there. If your local dealer wants $30k over, who cares?...just go on eBay and pick one up for $10k to $15k over depending on how patient you are.

[Captainbob]

Completely agree. Those dealers who break deals should see the wrath of customers.

 

AD

 

Yes they should..I was promised a GT500 by Brien motors of Everett, Wa. for MSRP.. 1 yr before the release.

When it came time to contact them they forgot who I was.. Thats BS!

As far as ADM's it's open market supply and demand.. Greed has nothing to do with it.. People are in business to make money.. Sure I'm bummed I paid $60k.. But I'm extremly happy with the car and have no regrets.. Who doesn't want to save money?

[Alloy Dave]

Jim,

Not many cars that roll thru the ford dealerships draw ADM. This is a cash cow car for them. (or Goat in Daves case ).

Are you trying to get my goat?

 

[iceman]

Yeah, I'm surprised that prices haven't come down more quickly. I thought we'd be below $10k ADM by now.

 

I think the best way to track prices on eBay is to look at completed auctions...both where the bidding died on "reserve not met" endings and winning bids.

 

Looking at those numbers, recent sales / end of bidding are typically between $55 and $60k. So, to my eye, it looks like prices have stalled in the $10-15k over range. On the lower side for convertibles, higher side for coupes. I look at eBay about once a month and I think that's about where prices were mid-November.

 

Contrary to what seems to be the conventional wisdom around here, I think eBay is an excellent indicator of the market value of GT500s simply because any of us can easily buy a car there. If your local dealer wants $30k over, who cares?...just go on eBay and pick one up for $10k to $15k over depending on how patient you are.

 

 

Mine is one of those reserve not met deals. They ended it because we reached our agreement so the last bid was like 55,100 but the actual purchase price of my car was 56,749.53 according to the paperwork before tax. This was because I had to be out the door at a certain number plus my trade so it makes it tough to read into because of the numbers game with the trade....according to the purchase price I'd be at a bit ofe and 8K ADM (bought on 12/16) but I think in reality the trade was worth about 2K more than they gave me so it is more or less a 10K ADM.

 

In anycase the point is to keep in mind that the reserve not met deals can mean a couple of different things...including sold local, not sold, etc.

[90GT]

If you don't want to hear it, then I recommend you avoid posting on the issue...people on the forum are not going to be quiet just because you tell them to. If it wasn't for the ADMs, then SOMEONE ELSE would not be driving the car. The one that you ended up buying would be a car that SOMEONE ELSE was willing to pay more for. It's interesting that you are concerned with getting a car for yourself, but to heck with everyone else. Sure, you SAY that you want everyone to have a car...but that's not possible if you eliminate ADMs...you seem to want it both ways.

 

Dave

 

 

 

Nice, you take my post as being selfish?? I guess not being able to afford a 20k ADM makes me that way.

 

And how can having ADM's help every one get a car?? That's even funnier!!!

 

My dealer had 14 grand of my money for over 4 months. I thought I was locked in and would get one for MSRP. Then the owner decides that they want to mark up the car 1 month before production starts, not by 1k or even 5k, but 15k over. And this is from a dealer that I have had a good relationship with for a long time. This is greed and this is what has happened to a lot of people other than just myself. This is why ADM's are bad. You are correct it stating that not all dealers are the same but in my experience in shopping for a GT500, all have been the same.

 

I'm done my rant. I'm not posting in this thread any more. It just amazes me how pro ADM this site is when good honest people have been screwed over by nothing more than pure dealer greed.

 

I'm gone.

[iceman]

Nice, you take my post as being selfish?? I guess not being able to afford a 20k ADM makes me that way.

 

And how can having ADM's help every one get a car?? That's even funnier!!!

 

My dealer had 14 grand of my money for over 4 months. I thought I was locked in and would get one for MSRP. Then the owner decides that they want to mark up the car 1 month before production starts, not by 1k or even 5k, but 15k over. And this is from a dealer that I have had a good relationship with for a long time. This is greed and this is what has happened to a lot of people other than just myself. This is why ADM's are bad. You are correct it stating that not all dealers are the same but in my experience in shopping for a GT500, all have been the same.

 

I'm done my rant. I'm not posting in this thread any more. It just amazes me how pro ADM this site is when good honest people have been screwed over by nothing more than pure dealer greed.

 

I'm gone.

 

 

 

For what it's worth I am anti-adm even though I had to pay one to get the car and I had said i would hold off until they came back to MSRP I found myself inching up and finally drew the line at a 10K ADM but it had to be out the door and that's where I came in...Just over 8K ADM pre-tax. I for one hope that you and anyone else looking finds the deal they can live with be it MSRP or other....but I have to say I don't think people are pro-ADM as much as they are Pro the Shelby value holding or going up....unfortunately that translates to ADM for those that don't have one yet.

 

I still believe that Ford will not stop making these cars if the demand is out there that is creating a market for the ADM.....How ever if that demand dries up then I don't expect production of this car to go on for long so timing is going to be a bitch.

[Grabber]

Are you trying to get my goat?

 

 

No, but I will take your sheep, little bo-Peep.

[srk1959]

Wow, Just checking back on all the new posts. Glad to see the 500's are everything they are supposed to be. I am still waiting until closer to m.s.r.p. ......5k I would not have a problem with.

 

As I posted some time ago a friend owns a Dodge dealer (small town) and said I would be able to order a Challenger with no ADM so I put money down, I wanted a Gt500 but would not pay 20k or more over m.s.r.p. so no go.

 

If the ADM comes down into my range I will place an order or take a dealer stock, I really like the styling and performance from a stock vehicle. I currently own 4 mopar Hemi cars, 71 Cuda Convert 822 rw hp, 71 Challenger convert 622 rw hp and a 72 Roadrunner and a 71 Charger with a 612 C.I.D. hemi and still kept the (original 383) factory air.

 

I am not bragging but I can wait, I just went out to the shop and had to run the Challenger after reading the posts on the forum!! Iwould like to add a 500 to the stable and a new Challenger. Time will tell? Once again congrats to all those that have their 500's.....maybe some day....and for those on the board that cringe at the Mopar's .....I owed (7) 1969-1970 Mach's 351 to 428 and still love the style.

 

Merry christmas all and Happy New Year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Five Oh B]

The ADM's are put on by the dealer because they are GREEDY!!!! Bottom line. Don't try to explain it any other way because it's falling on deaf ears and I don't want to hear it.

 

 

So, when us dealers sell a vehicle for less than MSRP, that makes the consumer greedy, right?