Do's and Don'ts when approaching a salesman?

[gabnmantha]

And here is the problem. People should not have to research to keep from getting ripped off at the dealership. Me personally, I trust nobody when it comes to my money but why should dealerships be set up to "screw" people? Call it capitalism, the American way or whatever, having to "arm" yourself before making a major purchase like a car is wrong and that is why people have stopped doing it!

Obviously this does not apply to everyone and it would seem our resident dealers are the exception but I would be willing to bet even they at some point and time have taken advantage of the unsuspecting person.

Yes, I love cars, yes, I know how to play the game as most here do but it doesn't make it right. You want to save the auto industry? Fix the dealerships, cut the UAW, pay a decent wage instead of over-inflated paychecks for someone not skilled to do anything except spin a nut and pass that savings on to the product with the best price put on the window every time, all the time. I don't go to Brookshires to buy a steak and then sit down to negotiate the price, rebates and etc. I have yet to have one of my stakes have an additional mark up for $900 window tint, $700 "sealant" and the other crap put on it and I always come home with a steak when I go to buy one. Why should it be different with a car?

 

MSRP......MSRP is the manufacturers suggested retail price. I am not in favor of ADM's..period! However, people still think that if there is any profit left over the dealers invoice there getting ripped off. Dealer profit is vital to keep customers happy & the business health in the long run. A fair average profit enables dealers to take care of service issues that the factory won't cover. Things like alignments after 12,000 miles (Which we did one yesterday for a customer who swears he NEVER hits pot holes). If we have a car that is 5,000 miles out of warranty & the water pump goes, if we don't fix it for free, the customer thinks we are screwing them. My furnace went out 2 days after the warranty expired & the company said "sorry, warranties have to end some time." A car dealer could NEVER get away with that.

I have been on both sides of the desk. I also have seen hundreds of customers lie, cheat & steal to get a better deal. That's a fact! They cover the ABS or Service Engine Soon lights on the dash w/ black tape so we won't see it. They add STP oil treatment to the engine before we appraise it so we won't hear the engine knock. They lie about the title NOT being salvage or flood. The bottom line is if the dealer doesn't do his homework or run Carfax on the trade-in they are basically screwed.

Tell me this, if you could find a source that gave you the actual dealer cost of a refrigerator, Hot tub, Washer/dryer, etc. would you want to pay a lower price than they are asking? Does that mean that they have been screwing you? Well, a car is the only large ticket item where the customer has access to the wholesale cost to the dealership. Customers don't care about how much the dealership has to pay for employees, training, facilities, Taxes, insurance, etc. They feel if they know what the dealer pays for the car, that entitles them to pay that price..period! Well, that is totally wrong.

Believe me, I know there have been some bad dealers in business. Hopefully, this dealer shake-up that is taking place w/ GM & Chrysler will rid the business of most of the poor dealerships. However, most dealerships that are in business today are terrific businesses w/ great hard working employees that truly care about their customers. It's time to stop the dealer bashing & lumping of all of us into a rotten apple basket. Let's face it, consumers aren't ready for a dealer that says, here's what I need to get for this car. We say it all the time & try to make it fair for both parties. But, after asking for & receiving our best price, 90% of all customers will A) offer much less B) justify that by saying the dealer down the road is selling it for less C) throw in a trade-in after saying there was no trade-in D) Begins to lie in greater detail about why $500.00 over invoice is a ripoff. E) All of the above.

A the end of the day, most consumers really need to be able to blame the dealer for their car problems. They aren't ready for an open & honest transaction w/ a great service future.

" You want us on that wall...you need on that wall! You ask us to provide great selction, service & prices & then you question the manner in which we provide it."

 

After 20 years in the indusrty, I am confident that myself & all the other dealers on this forum would crush any arguments about the auto industy. Car dealers negotiate w/ harsh reality to the actual market conditions. Consumers negotiate w/ fear, lies & false anger in order to get a better price. Keep em coming!

[Imatk]

I agree with a lot of what you said about a dealership needing to be profitable, but I'm ABSOLUTELY sure there are "lies" going on, on BOTH sides of that desk all over this fair land of ours.

 

Thomas Tusser put it best, "A fool and his money are soon parted."

 

Whether that fool is on the buying end or the selling end.. either way... that's the way the world spins.

 

But, after asking for & receiving our best price, 90% of all customers will A) offer much less B) justify that by saying the dealer down the road is selling it for less C)

 

Any purchase is a negotiation, and your job as a salesman is to perform that negotiation to the benefit of your employer, the buyers job is to perform to the benefit of his wallet.

 

Sometimes the buyer wins and sometimes the salesman / dealership wins. OF COURSE the buyer is going to try and get a better price... THEY DON'T TRUST YOU at your "best price" and they are wise to NOT trust anyone as far as money is concerned.

 

throw in a trade-in after saying there was no trade-in D)

 

And why would that bother you??? Looking to make some money on the financing back end??

 

I mean if the "best price" you negotiated with the buyer is actually the BEST price then what do you care if there's a trade-in??

 

Begins to lie in greater detail about why $500.00 over invoice is a ripoff. E) All of the above.

 

I think you need to get over this whole "lie" issue. How do you KNOW the person is lying? Maybe they don't actually believe YOU and what you say your invoice price is?? Think about it.

 

A the end of the day, most consumers really need to be able to blame the dealer for their car problems.

 

Do you REALLY think this is accurate? Do happy customers blame dealers for car problems? No... Happy customers don't complain or blame anyone.

 

Have you had several UN-happy customers that blamed you?? Maybe you should think about addressing their problems to turn them into happy customers.

 

They aren't ready for an open & honest transaction w/ a great service future.

 

I suspect ANY customer would LOVE an open and honest transaction with a great service future. The problem lies in the fact that there is a great deal of money involved when purchasing a car... so people, being people, tend to get greedy (on both sides).

 

After 20 years in the indusrty, I am confident that myself & all the other dealers on this forum would crush any arguments about the auto industy.

Umm wow... I find it telling that you say you would "crush" arguments about the auto industry. Why do you feel the need to "crush" arguments? Why does there have to be an argument at all?

 

Car dealers negotiate w/ harsh reality to the actual market conditions. Consumers negotiate w/ fear, lies & false anger in order to get a better price. Keep em coming!

 

Fear, lies, and I'm sorry... false anger?

 

It seems to me like YOU are the one that's angry. Maybe after 20 years it's time for a new profession? When you see your potential customers as such "liars" and obviously you look down at the car buyer as you would "crush" any opinion coming from them... maybe you should look into being a carpenter?? Or maybe you could become a painter??

 

Because it seems like you are the very type of salesman that everyone on this board does NOT want to deal with.

 

Why would they want to deal with someone who looks at them as liars? Who has so little regard for their customer? And you write that they aren't READY for an open and honest transaction with a great service future?? You aren't SERVING your customer from the beginning with your attitude toward them...why would they expect you to do it in the future?

[stump_breaker]

MSRP......MSRP is the manufacturers suggested retail price. I am not in favor of ADM's..period! Blah.....

Well, assuming you were speaking to me since you quoted me, way to completely avoid anything I said and go off on a tangent about cliche crap.

Who cares about MSRP or dealer cost? I hope they do make a profit because when I go and buy another new vehicle (which I do about every two or so years) I hope they are still there so I can give them fiorst shot! I said put a best, bottom line price on the car and then the consumer can take it or leave it. Carmax and Saturn both do this and both of the vehicles I bought from them - on the first visit I might add - were great. They weren't the best priced vehicles but they were fair and I appreciated not being given the run-around. After dealing with Saturn I sent my Mom up there and guess what, she bought a new 2007 Saturn. Same thing happend with Carmax and my sister. She bought first time out based on my recomendation because of the respect I received when I was a customer.

Stepping over all the rest of your ty-raid, what the hell does the trade-in value have to do with the price of the purchased vehicle?

 

I'm your customer and I just left because of that.

 

Quantum Performance is not the cheapest place to mod a vehicle by far but because of the respect I receive as if I am the only customer keeping them in business, I will use them and have no problem writing the check.

 

I think you missed the point of everything.

[gabnmantha]

I agree with a lot of what you said about a dealership needing to be profitable, but I'm ABSOLUTELY sure there are "lies" going on, on BOTH sides of that desk all over this fair land of ours.

 

Thomas Tusser put it best, "A fool and his money are soon parted."

 

Whether that fool is on the buying end or the selling end.. either way... that's the way the world spins.

 

 

 

Any purchase is a negotiation, and your job as a salesman is to perform that negotiation to the benefit of your employer, the buyers job is to perform to the benefit of his wallet.

 

Sometimes the buyer wins and sometimes the salesman / dealership wins. OF COURSE the buyer is going to try and get a better price... THEY DON'T TRUST YOU at your "best price" and they are wise to NOT trust anyone as far as money is concerned.

 

You may be surprised to know I am a salesmanger @ the #1 Buick-Pont-GMC store in the north central zone. We are also the #1 dealer in sales & service satisfaction. Just because I sound angry doesn't mean I need a new profession. I am very good @ what I do. However, I do have a right to defend my profession when I read bone-headed comments about our industry. You seem to think you are the only one who has a right to vent your frustrations. There is frustration in EVERY industry. I am excersizing my right to vent in an open forum just as many have done.

I am trying to let all the car dealer bashers know that most of us in the business have been on both sides of the desk. You seem to act like the buyer has always been the innocent victim in a transaction. Well, I can tell you that most dealers all over the country do everything in their power to make every customer happy.

As far as the "crush" phrase, I mean crush in each & every way. :happy feet: Yes, I do. If you & I were across table from each other having a beer, I would be able to explain each & every aspect of our business. I can also use examples of hundreds of situations that would prove many of my points.

Why does a trade in @ the last minute bother me? Well, if a customer lies about having a trade-in right from the start & then pulls a trade in @ the last second, well...I am sorry but he just lied didn't he? If he were to tell the salesperson yes, I have a trade but I'd like the numbers separate on the new car & what I am getting for my trade. Hey, No problem. Thanks for being up front. The reason for wanting to know is mainly to qualify the prospect. If you owe 11,000.00 on a 100,000 mile 2002 escort, well, that would be a problem for both parties unless you have $9,000.00 cash down. Again, it's about using all our time wisely & honestly. Understand this, every salesperson worth their salt knows that todays consumers are the most knowledgeable and well informed people in the history of sales. Since we already know that you have access to our wholesale costs, we try to make the sale quicker & hassle free. So, when you ask for our best price because you don't want to haggle, it should be easy. Either you trust the invoice price you have obtained from your research or you don't. But once you find out the dealer needs $500.00 profit, no all the sudden you want to haggle. Well, theres another lie.

Profit isn't a dirty word. Yes, dealers have finance managers that work hard to get people approved for financing. Some deals take a couple days & many man hours to a lender to approve a deal. Many times a Fin. Mgr has to verify a customers job status & income, etc. Believe me, they earn their income.

 

Customers seem to blame dealers when they owe too much on their trade in. It's always "the dealer screwed me 2 years ago" or "the dealer charged too much" or "I didn't know the loan was for 72 months". In each one of those instances, they had the power of "no thanks". Dealers try to put a deal together to make both parties happy. If a customer is stuck on $350.00 a month & it takes 72 mos to get there, well, we present the terms. They can say yes or no.

 

A lie is a lie. Customers seem to think a dealer is lying if he makes a profit or won't disclose certain areas of our business. Well, with an invoice in a customers hand & full knowledge of the factory incentives, how can a dealer lie? Ever hear of a dealer calling a customer back to renegotiate or return the trade in back to the customer after the sale? No. A deal is a deal. We see many trades every month that weren't as adverised by the customer. However, we never call them & complain. It's our business & we deal with it. We no the risks going in. If a customer has a problem with a car we sold them, we fix it. That's the way it is.

 

I can debate this all day & night w/ a smile on my face. I am just stating facts. Both sides can be wrong @ times. Yes, I am sure dealers have lied about things as well as customers have lied. However, the car business is an open book & has been that way for years. W/ the information available to consumers, there is no reason for anyone to really feel the got a poor deal.

 

 

 

 

 

And why would that bother you??? Looking to make some money on the financing back end??

 

I mean if the "best price" you negotiated with the buyer is actually the BEST price then what do you care if there's a trade-in??

 

 

 

I think you need to get over this whole "lie" issue. How do you KNOW the person is lying? Maybe they don't actually believe YOU and what you say your invoice price is?? Think about it.

 

 

 

Do you REALLY think this is accurate? Do happy customers blame dealers for car problems? No... Happy customers don't complain or blame anyone.

 

Have you had several UN-happy customers that blamed you?? Maybe you should think about addressing their problems to turn them into happy customers.

 

 

 

I suspect ANY customer would LOVE an open and honest transaction with a great service future. The problem lies in the fact that there is a great deal of money involved when purchasing a car... so people, being people, tend to get greedy (on both sides).

 

 

Umm wow... I find it telling that you say you would "crush" arguments about the auto industry. Why do you feel the need to "crush" arguments? Why does there have to be an argument at all?

 

 

 

Fear, lies, and I'm sorry... false anger?

 

It seems to me like YOU are the one that's angry. Maybe after 20 years it's time for a new profession? When you see your potential customers as such "liars" and obviously you look down at the car buyer as you would "crush" any opinion coming from them... maybe you should look into being a carpenter?? Or maybe you could become a painter??

 

Because it seems like you are the very type of salesman that everyone on this board does NOT want to deal with.

 

Why would they want to deal with someone who looks at them as liars? Who has so little regard for their customer? And you write that they aren't READY for an open and honest transaction with a great service future?? You aren't SERVING your customer from the beginning with your attitude toward them...why would they expect you to do it in the future?

[frydguy79]

Well, assuming you were speaking to me since you quoted me, way to completely avoid anything I said and go off on a tangent about cliche crap.

Who cares about MSRP or dealer cost? I hope they do make a profit because when I go and buy another new vehicle (which I do about every two or so years) I hope they are still there so I can give them fiorst shot! I said put a best, bottom line price on the car and then the consumer can take it or leave it. Carmax and Saturn both do this and both of the vehicles I bought from them - on the first visit I might add - were great. They weren't the best priced vehicles but they were fair and I appreciated not being given the run-around. After dealing with Saturn I sent my Mom up there and guess what, she bought a new 2007 Saturn. Same thing happend with Carmax and my sister. She bought first time out based on my recomendation because of the respect I received when I was a customer.

Stepping over all the rest of your ty-raid, what the hell does the trade-in value have to do with the price of the purchased vehicle?

 

I'm your customer and I just left because of that.

 

Quantum Performance is not the cheapest place to mod a vehicle by far but because of the respect I receive as if I am the only customer keeping them in business, I will use them and have no problem writing the check.

 

I think you missed the point of everything.

 

people think carmxx is a great place to shop ha, they buy a lot of the junk, rougher vehicle's at the auction that other dealers walk from , and then detail them and sell them to YOU!! as great vehicles

[gabnmantha]

Well, assuming you were speaking to me since you quoted me, way to completely avoid anything I said and go off on a tangent about cliche crap.

Who cares about MSRP or dealer cost? I hope they do make a profit because when I go and buy another new vehicle (which I do about every two or so years) I hope they are still there so I can give them fiorst shot! I said put a best, bottom line price on the car and then the consumer can take it or leave it. Carmax and Saturn both do this and both of the vehicles I bought from them - on the first visit I might add - were great. They weren't the best priced vehicles but they were fair and I appreciated not being given the run-around. After dealing with Saturn I sent my Mom up there and guess what, she bought a new 2007 Saturn. Same thing happend with Carmax and my sister. She bought first time out based on my recomendation because of the respect I received when I was a customer.

Stepping over all the rest of your ty-raid, what the hell does the trade-in value have to do with the price of the purchased vehicle?

 

I'm your customer and I just left because of that.

 

Quantum Performance is not the cheapest place to mod a vehicle by far but because of the respect I receive as if I am the only customer keeping them in business, I will use them and have no problem writing the check.

 

I think you missed the point of everything.

Actually, I am dead on correct in my statements because they are all true. Believe me when i say that our customers are like friends & family @ our dealership. I am trying to make a point that there are two sides to every situation. I am pointing out some of the true situations we see every day. I have read hundreds of posts on these forums about how people feel they got screwed one way or another. It's about time some of you hear the truth as I & many dealers have seen it. There are many great dealer employees on this forum who can verify every "ugly" thing I have said about some of the customers I have encountered in the last 20 + years. I have tried to give an over top truth to some of the things we encounter every day. I take the good & bad w/ a smile, but I am human & also have an opinion as well.

 

Buick tried the no-haggle price theory over 10 years ago. It failed because too many customers complained about suddenly having to pay "widow sticker". We offered a Lesabre w/ cloth for $18,995.00 or leather for $19,995.00. Each car had a $900.00 profit. Well, if we came across a customer who came from a Ford or other competitor, the trade in was then padded so much we always wound up selling the car for 900.00 less. Here we were competing w/ a Ford Taurus w/ $3,000 mark up & we only had $900.00 to work with. It just wasn't a level playing field. Saturn stores have had to do the same thing & as you can see, they are failing. Carmax sells price 90% of the time. They buy more rental cars than any dealer ever has. Unless the car they are selling is still under the mfg's warranty, the only give a 30 day or 1,000 mile warranty. carmax is basically a meat market for cars. GM & Ford certified predriven cars are the total opposite. In fact , we are the #1 GM Certified dealer in the chicago zone & we really try to stick to the "certified market price". We offer a 12 mo. 12,000 mile NEW CAR warranty with every certified car we sell. basically, you get what you pay for. Our system works very well, but we often have to discount the car to appease our customers. We try not to be hard headed about a "one price" concept because it just won't work w/ everyone. We sometimes have to lose the battle to win the war.

 

I just spent an hour w/ a customer who bought an 01 Bullitt w/ 11,000 miles from our dealership 3 weeks ago. The car was traded in by an employee who bought it new in 2001. The car is literally brand new! Long story short, he wanted to give the car back because it had developed a slight rear diff. drip which I told him we would be happy to take care of. When that didn't seem good enough, I dug a bit deeper. Well, the truth finally came out, he doesn't have his $3,000.00 down payment that he owes us by tomorrow. I gave him another 30 days to pay & he was very happy. I also said I'd have the car cleaned & full of gas when he picks it up on Tuesday. Oh, BTW, I gave him a free loaner for the weekend because he was concerned about driving it while losing fluids. I was happy to help him. I wish he would have just told me truth right away instead of making a mountain out of a mole hill in order to get out of the deal because he can't come up w/ his end of the down payment. We're a quality dealer & that's how we do business. we take care of our customers.

 

There is good & bad in every situation. No matter what you do for a living, you are paid because your employer makes a profit. The auto industry is no different. I am hopeful the auto industry is able to rid the marketplace of some of the unscrupulous dealers that have given us all a bad name. I know it's easy to bunch us all together. However, as long as we all understand that we have the power to say "no thankyou" , the only person to blame for feeling they paid too much for anything is themselves. You have to admit, the auto industry is THE most scrutinized & critiqued business in the country. No matter how easy it has become to intelligetnly buy a car, someone always finds a way to make dealers out to be the bad guy.

 

My advice is to give your business to the dealer w/ the best reputation, facilities & service & you will never go wrong! You will find most of these dealers have employees who have been there for 10,15 or 25 years. That's how you can tell a good dealer from a poor one. I have been @ my dealership over 17 years & I feel like a rookie.

 

The next car you buy, try being as upfront as possible during the sales presentation & see what happens. I think you'll find out how much fun you can have buying a car in a relaxed atmosphere. If not, just remember you always have the power of "no thankyou".

[Imatk]

You may be surprised to know I am a salesmanger @ the #1 Buick-Pont-GMC store in the north central zone. We are also the #1 dealer in sales & service satisfaction. Just because I sound angry doesn't mean I need a new profession. I am very good @ what I do.

 

That's awesome, but from your earlier post... with an attitude like yours toward your customers (as I stated in my earlier post) I doubt they're very happy to be looked down upon and regarded as liars before they even walk in the door.

 

However, I do have a right to defend my profession when I read bone-headed comments about our industry. You seem to think you are the only one who has a right to vent your frustrations. There is frustration in EVERY industry. I am excersizing my right to vent in an open forum just as many have done.

 

I'm not venting my frustrations. I'm not frustrated. It seems like you want people to have some sort of sympathy for dealers, sorry don't think that's gonna happen for ya.

 

 

 

I am trying to let all the car dealer bashers know that most of us in the business have been on both sides of the desk. You seem to act like the buyer has always been the innocent victim in a transaction. Well, I can tell you that most dealers all over the country do everything in their power to make every customer happy.

 

Did I write that the BUYER was always the "innocent victim?" Re-read my post above... never said that.

 

If they in-fact DO everything in their power to make EVERY customer happy then why so many disgruntled customers? Strange.

 

The fact is, (as I wrote above), you have a job to do. It's business... that's it. You're looking to put a good profit on your side of the desk, and there's nothing wrong with that, BUT there's also nothing wrong with the customer trying to protect his wallet and keep you from getting said coin. It's business... get over it or get out (as I wrote in the earlier post).

 

As far as the "crush" phrase, I mean crush in each & every way. happy feet.gif Yes, I do. If you & I were across table from each other having a beer, I would be able to explain each & every aspect of our business. I can also use examples of hundreds of situations that would prove many of my points.

 

Do you even see how this is elitist and very telling of how you view your customers? I was trying to get that across in the earlier post...If you can't get it...I got nothin.

 

Why does a trade in @ the last minute bother me? Well, if a customer lies about having a trade-in right from the start & then pulls a trade in @ the last second, well...I am sorry but he just lied didn't he?

 

Well let's see, do you "lie" about holdbacks or dealer incentives or overpriced gap insurance or any of the other MANY devices dealers use to maximize profit?

 

I suspect you don't offer ANY of those up to the potential buyer. Why would you? If they aren't aware of them... why would you offer them up to lose more money on your end?

 

The buyer is acting in no way different than you... AGAIN GET OVER IT or GET OUT. It's just business.

 

But once you find out the dealer needs $500.00 profit, no all the sudden you want to haggle. Well, theres another lie. banghead.gif

 

I don't even understand this statement. How is the customer lying to you when he doesn't want you to profit?

 

I would say that it's unreasonable, but not "lying."

 

 

Profit isn't a dirty word. Yes, dealers have finance managers that work hard to get people approved for financing. Some deals take a couple days & many man hours to a lender to approve a deal. Many times a Fin. Mgr has to verify a customers job status & income, etc. Believe me, they earn their income.

 

Again, never said it was, read earlier post.

[Imatk]

Customers seem to blame dealers when they owe too much on their trade in. It's always "the dealer screwed me 2 years ago" or "the dealer charged too much" or "I didn't know the loan was for 72 months". In each one of those instances, they had the power of "no thanks". Dealers try to put a deal together to make both parties happy. If a customer is stuck on $350.00 a month & it takes 72 mos to get there, well, we present the terms. They can say yes or no.

 

They can say yes or no-- absolutely correct. But wait a minute, MOST dealers do everything they can to make customers happy... you shouldn't even have these issues right?

 

Fact is if they DID get screwed it was their own fault, NOT the dealer.

 

But don't sit here and play innocent, "Oh gosh we gave him all the options and that's what he took" crap. You know as well as I there are some people that are not as financially savvy, those people tend to get taken advantage of (again see earlier post).

 

A lie is a lie. Customers seem to think a dealer is lying if he makes a profit or won't disclose certain areas of our business. Well, with an invoice in a customers hand & full knowledge of the factory incentives, how can a dealer lie?

 

Already covered this above.

 

Ever hear of a dealer calling a customer back to renegotiate or return the trade in back to the customer after the sale? No. A deal is a deal. We see many trades every month that weren't as adverised by the customer. However, we never call them & complain. It's our business & we deal with it. We no the risks going in.

 

Damn right because it's the LAW! How many times have you had someone come back and NOT want their car the next day and said, "Oh ok well then it's cool we'll take it back no problem"

 

NEVER is how many, unless you are a fool.

 

Again as I wrote earlier... sometimes the dealer wins sometimes the customer does.

 

Do I condone someone trying to screw someone else? No, but the fact is both parties had damn well be aware of it other wise... these things happen.

 

If a customer has a problem with a car we sold them, we fix it. That's the way it is.

 

Well since you are a buick dealer I can't really comment to that. As for Ford that is REALLY F-ING hilarious!!

 

I can debate this all day & night w/ a smile on my face. I am just stating facts. Both sides can be wrong @ times. Yes, I am sure dealers have lied about things as well as customers have lied. However, the car business is an open book & has been that way for years. W/ the information available to consumers, there is no reason for anyone to really feel the got a poor deal.

 

You think dealers have lied? Noooooo I just don't believe that!

 

But I DO agree that there's no reason anyone should feel they got a poor deal. If they make the deal and get bent over because they weren't aware of what they were doing financially or otherwise then it is absolutely on THEM.

 

But again don't come in here and try to get sympathy and talk all this talk about how dealers are REALLY all good and out for the customer... we both know (as well as many others reading this I suspect) that it's just NOT the case.

[gabnmantha]

They can say yes or no-- absolutely correct. But wait a minute, MOST dealers do everything they can to make customers happy... you shouldn't even have these issues right?

 

Fact is if they DID get screwed it was their own fault, NOT the dealer.

 

But don't sit here and play innocent, "Oh gosh we gave him all the options and that's what he took" crap. You know as well as I there are some people that are not as financially savvy, those people tend to get taken advantage of (again see earlier post).

 

 

 

Already covered this above.

 

 

 

Damn right because it's the LAW! How many times have you had someone come back and NOT want their car the next day and said, "Oh ok well then it's cool we'll take it back no problem"

 

NEVER is how many, unless you are a fool.

 

Again as I wrote earlier... sometimes the dealer wins sometimes the customer does.

 

Do I condone someone trying to screw someone else? No, but the fact is both parties had damn well be aware of it other wise... these things happen.

 

 

 

Well since you are a buick dealer I can't really comment to that. As for Ford that is REALLY F-ING hilarious!!

 

 

 

You think dealers have lied? Noooooo I just don't believe that!

 

But I DO agree that there's no reason anyone should feel they got a poor deal. If they make the deal and get bent over because they weren't aware of what they were doing financially or otherwise then it is absolutely on THEM.

 

But again don't come in here and try to get sympathy and talk all this talk about how dealers are REALLY all good and out for the customer... we both know (as well as many others reading this I suspect) that it's just NOT the case.

 

I would love to see how long you'd last on the sale floor. I'd love to see you in action. Oh, and when you can't earn enough money to feed your family...I'll tell you to just "get over it or get out".

 

The only statement you've made that requires a response is regarding the holdback & gap insurance. You obviously have no idea what holdback is. Do you know what the dealer holdback was originally intended for? Hell no you don't. You think it's a secret profit. Dealers get a 3% holdback fee under invoice to cover certain costs of business. You can call it a safety net if you will. Customers are also very aware of it. It's no secret. Incentives, rebates, etc. are also no secret either. In fact , nearly all factory incentives have to be disclosed on the buyers order to the customer. If they aren't disclosed, the dealer doesn't get reimbursed for the incentive. It doesn't behove the dealer to hide a rebate from a customer. If the dealer doesn't give it to the customer, the dealer never gets reimbursed. Rebates are the customers money NOT the DEALERS.

Speaking of being reimbursed, the 3% holdback & all rebates are paid back to the dealer on a quarterly basis. That means the dealer is fronting all the trade in allowances, the holdback, rebates, etc until the factory pays them each quarter. The interest on a dealers floorplan & quarterly front money alone has been high enough to put many dealerships out of business. So, as you can see, the "secret holdback" you refer to is not a profit at all.

gap insurance.....Well, we offer gap insurance. So does my credit union. So does my Bank. So does your bank. Duh.... Gap insurance is vital in protecting people from a huge financial problem in the event their car has been stolen, totaled, etc & the value is less than the ins. co will pay. It mainly used for people who roll overages from one loan on top of another.

 

If you have actually read all I have said, you'd realize that I am being very open & honest about this issue. Yes, dealers have had a bad reputation for decades. Yes, dealers have been know to lie about a vehicles actual condition. You get the picture.

 

But we are in a totally new era that caters to the consumers well being. Dealerships have gone in an entirely new direction toward customer satisfaction & a more pleasurable buying experience. It isn't going to change overnite. But it is going into the right direction. My total intent with the energy that I have put forth is that there are two side to all of this. I am sure the dealers side is one that many never see. However, once I enlighten you about some ugly truths from my side of the desk, you tell me to get over it or get out. I see. That's basically the way it will always be from the customer stand point. Oh, BTW, just because I know what I should expect from most car buyers doesn't make me bitter or burned out...It makes me really, really good at what I do for a living!

 

As for Bitter....yikes...look in the mirror.

[stump_breaker]

To the OP, I hope these "posts" have been enlightening....

*rolling eyes*

[Imatk]

You're right man, dealers are just honest people trying to get by and they never take advantage of buyers who are unaware of the process.

 

And you don't ever have to wonder about me being on a sales floor. I'm quite sure I would suck at it, what does that matter?

 

As for telling you to get over it or get out... well you seem very agitated at your customers who are all "liars" so I figured I was offering help.

 

Bitter? I never said you were bitter, but maybe you are since you brought it up?

 

I'm not bitter, I just find it amusing that you need to cry us a river about how put upon you gosh darn honest dealers are.

 

Yes I'm very aware of what a holdback is and I'm also very aware that you don't disclose them readily. The reason I brought it up was because, according to you, buying a car is "an open book." Well there are a lot of folks who've never heard the term and have no idea what holdback is... just trying to illustrate a point.

 

As for gap insurance... hehe yeah you offer it. How much is YOUR gap insurance at the dealership compared to your credit union?

 

I'll just give you MY personal example the last time I bought a new car (my '06). The dealer tried to get me to buy gap insurance from Ford. It's great, but the problem is it was about 50 percent HIGHER than the gap insurance offered pretty much anywhere else including a credit union or bank. Had I been UNAWARE of this she would have pumped me-- GET IT?

 

So AGAIN don't come in here expecting everyone to cry you a river because I seriously don't think it's going to happen.

 

Hell if it was as easy and upfront as you say to buy a new car from a dealer I doubt this thread would even exist.

[gabnmantha]

I never said i wanted nor do I need anyones pity. There isn't a dealer on this forum that wants that. I am sorry if the harsh truths of what we endure every day has offended you. I am not blind @ how some dealers have treated people poorly in the past or how people have treated dealers. I am not angry, bitter or spiteful. I am an informed professional who knows my product & my customers. I thought i was debating an issue w/ a mature adult who could possibly try & see both sides of a situation & understand it. I was wrong.

As for Gap ins. or any other product on the market, everyone should shop around for the best overall value. Gap my cost more from one bank to the next. It also depends on how much they are insuring.( I bought a beer @ wrigley field the other day. That vendor was charging 6.50 for a beer! Wow, he's real crook. I did my research on beer & it costs only $.03 to make it. Wow, that vendor is really ripping me off. . BTW< holdback as been known to the public for over a decade. All consumers w/ internet access can go to any of the auto shopping sites like Edmunds or autotrader to intellegently research all there is to know about what they are looking for. They can build an invoice of the particular car or truck they want as well. Oh, btw, the dealer holdback figure is right there too. Geez, I was really hoping they would hide it from you.

 

Nothing happens in this country until something is sold. Professional salespeople in all fields are some of the most productive & hard working men & women in the country. They don't earn a dime until they produce a sale. They are not paid a base salary or by the hour. They do not have a union or any other representation. They renew their contract daily by working harder than the man or woman standing next to them.

 

I stand by my statements posted earlier. Find the best dealer & do your homework. Price is actually listed as the 3rd most important part in buying a car among most car buyer surveys. Service & facilities are 1 & 2. Our customers realize that the value of a deal is based on the entire ownership experience. If you buy a car from a dealer who has a horrible sales & service reputation, odds are you will be very disatisfied w/ the product in the next 3-5 years. Remember, after the glow of getting a great price fades, the reality of what you bought & where you bought will sink in very soon. As I said earlier, once GM & Chrysler restructure, most of the weaker dealers will have been eliminated creating a much better dealer base & ultimately a more satisfied customer. We get alot of customers using low ball prices from a competitor, compared to our price, who has shabby facilities w/ a horrible Sales & service reputation. In fact, our Better Business Bureau rating is A+ & his is F. Well, he knows the customer wants to buy from us but also wants his price to beat us down. Hey, that's fine. I'm a consumer too & want good deal as well. But at the end of the day, that is exactly why certain dealerships are being eliminated. Dealers like him should be able to sell the cars cheaper than us because they sure as hell won't spend any money on the facilities, parts storage or mechanic training. They also won't do any good will for their customers after the sale. So, what happens is we end up taking the deal @ a loss to retain the customer & hope we can make it up in service. In the long run, that has been a recipe for failure among the dealer base. I think we will all see things change for the better.

 

Between the two of us, I am the only one who can say I have & am & have been both a customer & a dealer. I have seen both sides of the afforementioned TRUE situations I have experienced. I have empathy for both the customer & the dealer. But, I am also smart enough to know what each one is capable of. I no you don't want to hear this nor do I care, but the dealer is usually the more honest of the two the majority of the time. especially when the customer has a trade in.

 

My work is done here .

[mr ford]

CLICK IT!! GO AHEAD CLICK IT !!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gabnmantha]

CLICK IT!! GO AHEAD CLICK IT !!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's is awesome!

[Imatk]

My work is done here .

 

God I hope so.

 

You never offended me.... you amuse me, but you don't offend me.

 

If you don't want people to boo hoo because you have to do your job with all these thieving customers then why did you post again? Weren't you "defending" your profession or some nonsense like that?

 

Oh and thanks for the insult about me not being mature... I find it strange that the you call me immature when you have sunk to insulting me and I have not.

 

I can only hope some of your potential customers read this thread

[Imatk]

CLICK IT!! GO AHEAD CLICK IT !!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nice

[FIAMike]

CLICK IT!! GO AHEAD CLICK IT !!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PRICELESS!

 

FIA Mike

[chivas1]

CLICK IT!! GO AHEAD CLICK IT !!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gabnmantha]

God I hope so.

 

You never offended me.... you amuse me, but you don't offend me.

 

If you don't want people to boo hoo because you have to do your job with all these thieving customers then why did you post again? Weren't you "defending" your profession or some nonsense like that?

 

Oh and thanks for the insult about me not being mature... I find it strange that the you call me immature when you have sunk to insulting me and I have not.

 

I can only hope some of your potential customers read this thread

 

I thought this forum was going to be a healthy debate about salespeople. How can there be a healthy debate when you refuse to give one inch to admit that the things that I have tried to explain about my side of the business are true. There is never one side to any story. I am just a little sick & tired of the stereotypical forums about car salespeople. My god, the car business has done a 180 degree turn to try & make the buying experience better. Yes, it used to be quite a game to buy a car. I totally agree. While it will never be a level playing field for either buyer or seller, if you can't admit that the experience has changed for the better in many ways, then you are either, imature, stubborn or all the above. My forum responses have be critical of BOTH sides. Yours have been totally one sided. Go back & reread the posts. I have totally admited & agreed with many of the problem areas in our industry. I have also tried to give back the side of the customer that WE see day in & day out. For doing that, I'm a bad guy?

 

I hope my customers do read all I have written. I haven't said anything that isn't true. It's perfectly fine to constantly bash dealers over the head & keep the stereotypes alive & well. (Yes, the jokes are great & those bagger videos are priceless) However, when someone finally throws the truth in the face of the buyers and actully calls them out of some of the tactics they have used to save money, wow....we're even WORSE for disclosing the ugly side of the buyer.

 

Jack Nicholson said it best: YOU CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

[Imatk]

I thought this forum was going to be a healthy debate about salespeople. How can there be a healthy debate when you refuse to give one inch to admit that the things that I have tried to explain about my side of the business are true. There is never one side to any story. I am just a little sick & tired of the stereotypical forums about car salespeople. My god, the car business has done a 180 degree turn to try & make the buying experience better. Yes, it used to be quite a game to buy a car. I totally agree. While it will never be a level playing field for either buyer or seller, if you can't admit that the experience has changed for the better in many ways, then you are either, imature, stubborn or all the above. My forum responses have be critical of BOTH sides. Yours have been totally one sided. Go back & reread the posts. I have totally admited & agreed with many of the problem areas in our industry. I have also tried to give back the side of the customer that WE see day in & day out. For doing that, I'm a bad guy?

 

I hope my customers do read all I have written. I haven't said anything that isn't true. It's perfectly fine to constantly bash dealers over the head & keep the stereotypes alive & well. (Yes, the jokes are great & those bagger videos are priceless) However, when someone finally throws the truth in the face of the buyers and actully calls them out of some of the tactics they have used to save money, wow....we're even WORSE for disclosing the ugly side of the buyer.

 

Jack Nicholson said it best: YOU CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

 

Maybe you should go back and re-read my posts. I haven't leveled an accusation of your intellect as you have mine, but I find it hilarious that you can't put into practice what you just wrote.

 

Why don't you re-read MY posts.

 

I never took sides, I simply told you to stop whining.... get over it dude.

 

BTW this thread was not supposed to be a "healthy debate about sales people." The OP wanted tips about dealing with people of your ilk... he didn't start it for you to go off on your rant about customers.

 

And since this dialogue with you is in absolutely no way contributing to this thread I think maybe you should go and sell some cars or something.

 

Maybe go out and find a hobby. Knitting? Pottery? I'm sure there are many such things that you could find enjoyable.

[DDT]

I hope my customers do read all I have written. I haven't said anything that isn't true. It's perfectly fine to constantly bash dealers over the head & keep the stereotypes alive & well. (Yes, the jokes are great & those bagger videos are priceless) However, when someone finally throws the truth in the face of the buyers and actully calls them out of some of the tactics they have used to save money, wow....we're even WORSE for disclosing the ugly side of the buyer.

 

Jack Nicholson said it best: YOU CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

 

 

I like that quote but what happened to Jack in the end???????????

 

"THE TRUTH IS A MATTER OF OPINION" is a much better quote............ :D

[XLR8]

CLICK IT!! GO AHEAD CLICK IT !!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Click it! My daughter loved it. She runs around yelling Kapowee all day now.

[gabnmantha]

Maybe you should go back and re-read my posts. I haven't leveled an accusation of your intellect as you have mine, but I find it hilarious that you can't put into practice what you just wrote.

 

Why don't you re-read MY posts.

 

I never took sides, I simply told you to stop whining.... get over it dude.

 

BTW this thread was not supposed to be a "healthy debate about sales people." The OP wanted tips about dealing with people of your ilk... he didn't start it for you to go off on your rant about customers.

 

And since this dialogue with you is in absolutely no way contributing to this thread I think maybe you should go and sell some cars or something.

 

Maybe go out and find a hobby. Knitting? Pottery? I'm sure there are many such things that you could find enjoyable.

 

I read your one-sided posts. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

 

You are so wise. You're right. I will leave you all to your "do's & don'ts". I guess I'll just wait for you to come to our dealership w/ halos above your heads & let you drag me around by my nose. I wonder why posts like this have to be started in the first place. I guess you aren't ready to hear both sides yet. I'll stay in my corner & speak when spoken to "oh great one"!

 

I'll do my job & and sell some cars like you said. Why don't you do yours & drop another basket of fries.

 

The bad dealer is gone....All hail Imatk! King of the Buyers!

[gabnmantha]

 

I like that quote but what happened to Jack in the end???????????

 

"THE TRUTH IS A MATTER OF OPINION" is a much better quote............ :D

 

 

well, Jack TOLD THE TRUTH didn't he? Then, he was punished. Just as I!

[Imatk]

I read your one-sided posts. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

 

You are so wise. You're right. I will leave you all to your "do's & don'ts". I guess I'll just wait for you to come to our dealership w/ halos above your heads & let you drag me around by my nose. I wonder why posts like this have to be started in the first place. I guess you aren't ready to hear both sides yet. I'll stay in my corner & speak when spoken to "oh great one"!

 

I'll do my job & and sell some cars like you said. Why don't you do yours & drop another basket of fries.

 

The bad dealer is gone....All hail Imatk! King of the Buyers!

 

Thank you I'm glad you see my side of things.

 

That's a good boy, you stay in your corner until daddy tells you to come out again.

 

I'm on patty duty this week, but thanks for the words of encouragement!

 

Thanks for the hail too... appreciate it

[bchorney]

Hello fellow Shelby members,

I was wondering what does it take to get a good deal when car buying. And as the title says, what experience did you have when you purchased your GT500. How many times did you go to the dealers? Any and all tips are welcomed!

Thanks for reading this post.

 

When dealing on a more specialty vehicle, ask for the sales manager only. If the person you are dealing with does not have the autority to autorize the final price, you are wasting your time. If they ever have to to go ask for approval, you have the wrong person. Plus that is the oldest sales person trick in the book. They leave the room to let you sweat it out, making you think that they are really working hard on the manager to get you a deal. If they leave the room, you leave too! I, unfortunately really wanted one of these cars ordered directly from the factory and bought back before the economy fell apart. Plus, in Canada, only SVT dealer could sell GT500s & KRs (2009 only). There are only 3 dealers around my home and they only got 15 cars per year each. So, not much negotiating could be had then. You should have lots of luck now. There are some 2008-09s on lots to be had for a good deal if you shop around. Thank goodness for the internet. Whatever you do negotiate the final price before you discuss financing or trade-ins if you can. Best to finance elsewhere or use cash before going in. One less thing they can use against you. I only went to the dealer to make my order.

 

Good Luck

Brett

[DDT]

well, Jack TOLD THE TRUTH didn't he? Then, he was punished. Just as I!

 

 

 

Again, Jack told his twisted opinionated version of the truth in that movie

and it was his own undoing in the end.........Very good movie as I believe

he won an acting award for his performance..........

 

Tom Cruize's Opinion of the truth was much better though...........

[gabnmantha]

Again, Jack told his twisted opinionated version of the truth in that movie

and it was his own undoing in the end.........Very good movie as I believe

he won an acting award for his performance..........

 

Tom Cruize's Opinion of the truth was much better though...........

 

I can't reply anymore, I'm in my corner

[Michael Morris]

WOW, this went from helping to FUSSING!!

 

Calm down folks!

 

The BEST advice I can give (from the dealers side) Find a dealer and salesman you TRUST and support them. Its NOT all about the price! Im not saying go in and lay down. Do your homework! Then find someone that will be there AFTER the sale! Someone you WANT to buy a car from. Im not asking for pity and Im not asking you to buy a car from ME (now if you want to Im OK with it), but I do here it ALL the time from folks that say " I got screwed" or " I didnt know it was a lease". I feel for these folks! Its crazy how many will then leave me after talking so bad about the other dealer, go back to them and BUY another car. Weeks later they are mad again! If you dont like me or dont trust me I would rather you NOT buy from me! At this dealership we have 70% repeat and referral! We would be in trouble if we depended on nothing but NEW customers!

 

MM

[Imatk]

WOW, this went from helping to FUSSING!!

 

Calm down folks!

 

The BEST advice I can give (from the dealers side) Find a dealer and salesman you TRUST and support them. Its NOT all about the price! Im not saying go in and lay down. Do your homework! Then find someone that will be there AFTER the sale! Someone you WANT to buy a car from. Im not asking for pity and Im not asking you to buy a car from ME (now if you want to Im OK with it), but I do here it ALL the time from folks that say " I got screwed" or " I didnt know it was a lease". I feel for these folks! Its crazy how many will then leave me after talking so bad about the other dealer, go back to them and BUY another car. Weeks later they are mad again! If you dont like me or dont trust me I would rather you NOT buy from me! At this dealership we have 70% repeat and referral! We would be in trouble if we depended on nothing but NEW customers!

 

MM

 

Sorry man, maybe I shouldn't have responded to the earlier posts.

 

I totally agree with what you wrote BTW. I just don't like it when ANYONE is categorized with a blanket description.

 

Dealers or customers.

 

Peace.