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May of just got harder to get TSB @ your dealer


mr ford

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Article 05-B-2009

Mustang GT500 Normal Operation

2007- 2009 Mustang GT500

A review of warranty claims and returned parts has found that some dealers are replacing the clutch assembly for normal operating characteristics of the GT500 clutch assembly.

 

The GT500 Owners Guide, page 8 and 9, describes the normal operating characteristics of the twin disc Cera-Metallic clutch. These are:

 

Clutch chatters/shudder when engaging the clutch.

Narrow or abrupt engagement points.

Hiss upon clutch engagement or disengagement.

Transmission gear roll over noise at idle.

Gear rattle noise at very low speeds when in 1st or 2nd gear.

Normal wear.

Performing repairs on vehicles determined to have normal operation could be considered over repair or misdiagnosis and may be subject to charge back.

 

Those are all normal for this transmission and no dealer should be doing the clutch TSB because of that.

For people having clutch problems they shouldn't be concerned- they'll get the TSB done.

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Those are all normal for this transmission and no dealer should be doing the clutch TSB because of that.

For people having clutch problems they shouldn't be concerned- they'll get the TSB done.

 

Mine is in getting down right now and they have also changed the process dealers have to follow...they have to submit for authorization before they can do the work which I am assuming also validates all of the right criteria have been met....if they keep messing with this TSB pretty soon it will be "sorry, unless there are pieces falling out it is normal operation"...very disappointing how Ford is approaching this.

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That is kind of disappointing, but I can also see why Ford is doing it. They have to start keeping track of the TSB because honestly, it is freaking people out enough to get it done when the car may not need it, just because they know it is going to happen at some point. The characteristics above are no different then when the original TSB came out.

 

Mine had very minor symptoms when I took it to the dealership, and after he had it apart he even said that the clutch was noticeably warn, not just a little bit.

 

It doesn't sound to me like they are going to make it any harder - they are simply saying that if you don't have the symptoms, you don't get the TSB.

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They have to start keeping track of the TSB because honestly, it is freaking people out enough to get it done when the car may not need it, just because they know it is going to happen at some point.

 

Exactly why it should be a recall in the first place,just a matter of time for this to happen Sucks. :angry2:

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What Ford will probably do right now is to "watch" the dealerships who have already performed the TSB when not needed.

 

And just a reminder, its your warranty that covers this repair. All a TSB does is provide info to the dealership. A TSB does not pay/cover for the repair costs.

 

Steve

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For those of us who are waiting for symptoms before requesting the TSB, can anyone confirm how long we have?

 

Is it 36,000/3 years or something else?

 

thx.

I really want somebody from Ford to address this. How can we get this answered with certaintity?

 

I read the powertrain warranty to cover the flywheel to 5 years, 60K. Since the flywheel is the causing part of all the subsequent damage, I personally think it should be 5 years, 60K, covered under the powertrain warranty.

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The way Ford is handling this is just a solid reminder of why I don't buy this crap for my daily drivers. Everyonce in a while, I start feeling all "buy American" and think about Taurus SHO's and Lincoln MKX's, to replace the daily drivers, and then this BS reminds me why I won't do that, and will replace them with more Acura's and Lexus's.

 

Completely opposite ends of the spectrum of how they treat the customer. My most expensive car to date is the GT500, and without a doubt, the least supported by the manufacturer.

 

It seems that most of the experts on these forums, believe that these clutches are all ticking time bombs, thus Ford whould want to fix everyone of them, so their customers don't get stuck fixing these things at a later date for big $$$.

 

Even all of you have had your clutches fixed, this behavior should piss you off, too.

 

Thanks Ford for caring so much, and making it difficult for us harcore customers who shelled out massive money for a Mustang, to have our cars fixed from your 1/2 assed engineering in the first place.

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My concern is this; I'd love to take my new to me Shelby on Hot Rod Power Tour. But everyday leaves you stuck in at least 45min to an hour of stop and go to get into the show field. I'd be pissed if the car becomes undrivable three states away. Especialy when the repair is somewhat complicated to get the TSB parts and have it done.

These symptoms may be due to flywheel distortion caused by excessive heat build-up during unique traffic conditions (example: severe stop/go urban driving). The distortion of the flywheel may prevent complete disengagement of the clutch. The system is designed for performance driving conditions.

I live in a rural area where I may never put the car into conditions that will require the TSB.

I'm not happy that my expensive toy needs to fail before corrective action can take place.

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The way Ford is handling this is just a solid reminder of why I don't buy this crap for my daily drivers. Everyonce in a while, I start feeling all "buy American" and think about Taurus SHO's and Lincoln MKX's, to replace the daily drivers, and then this BS reminds me why I won't do that, and will replace them with more Acura's and Lexus's.

 

Completely opposite ends of the spectrum of how they treat the customer. My most expensive car to date is the GT500, and without a doubt, the least supported by the manufacturer.

 

It seems that most of the experts on these forums, believe that these clutches are all ticking time bombs, thus Ford whould want to fix everyone of them, so their customers don't get stuck fixing these things at a later date for big $$$.

 

Even all of you have had your clutches fixed, this behavior should piss you off, too.

 

Thanks Ford for caring so much, and making it difficult for us harcore customers who shelled out massive money for a Mustang, to have our cars fixed from your 1/2 assed engineering in the first place.

 

There is plenty of poor manufacturer support and 1/2 assed engineering out there with many manufacturers. Good luck with those Toyotas and Hondas. They certainly are no better than the Fords being built today. Just a few things I have seen in the news recently -- Highlander recall for exhaust parts falling off, Tundra frames completely rusting out after 8 years, and don't even start on the pile of junk that is the current Tundra -- my personal favorite is the bed slamming and denting the cab when going over large bumps. What a joke.

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My concern is this; I'd love to take my new to me Shelby on Hot Rod Power Tour. But everyday leaves you stuck in at least 45min to an hour of stop and go to get into the show field. I'd be pissed if the car becomes undrivable three states away. Especialy when the repair is somewhat complicated to get the TSB parts and have it done.

 

I live in a rural area where I may never put the car into conditions that will require the TSB.

I'm not happy that my expensive toy needs to fail before corrective action can take place.

 

"EXACTLY" why this should be a "PROACTIVE RECALL REPAIR"...........

 

Common Ford.........Step up and back your "PRIZED SELLING PRODUCT"????????????

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There is plenty of poor manufacturer support and 1/2 assed engineering out there with many manufacturers. Good luck with those Toyotas and Hondas. They certainly are no better than the Fords being built today. Just a few things I have seen in the news recently -- Highlander recall for exhaust parts falling off, Tundra frames completely rusting out after 8 years, and don't even start on the pile of junk that is the current Tundra -- my personal favorite is the bed slamming and denting the cab when going over large bumps. What a joke.

I am not speaking in theory. I have stopped buying American cars, with the exception of the GT500 and the GT Stang prior. I am a Stang nut and even an American car nut. I love them all and wish I could feel differently.

 

You say you see things in the news. If you don't own them, you don't see how they bend over backwords to make things right. I have owned many, and starting in 1999 I decided to make a change to reduce my frustration owning cars.

 

I have now been driving Lexus and Acura since 1999 and have racked up over 500,000 miles between (2) RX330's and (2) TSX's. Each had a problem or two, and each time the manufacturer (Acura and Lexus) fixed them even out of warranty. They may not build them better, but they support them ALOT BETTER! I had a throw out bearing go on a TSX, 15K over the warranty, and they fixed it free of charge. Radiator in an RX330 and they fixed it at 90K, free of charge. Loaners everytime and a porter job when I pick them up. I had AC fail on a Contour SVT about 5K out of warranty. $1000 and it failed again. $500 more and it failed again. The entire rotor and caliper on one side of the SVT Contour was WRONG! Is was the standard Contour stuff. Smaller rotor, caliper, etc... Yeh...they build them good!

 

As you said the Highlander had a recall. Recall means that they FIXED them free of charge. Not so with my $5K clutch from Ford.

 

I don't want to argue, but when people don't understand the massive difference between the ways these companies treat their customers, then they (Ford, GM, Chromoc) just keep getting away with treating the customers like crap. Well....I guess they really arn't getting away with anymore are they??? We are all spending a ton of our hard earned money keeping at least two of them afloat... sad...really sad....

 

I WANT to buy Amercian, but American car makers need to wake up and understand their is a HUGE gap between them and the competition. My clutch in my GT500, says that they still don't get it....

 

Whoops...I had to ammend this. I forgot about the 2002 Grand Cherokee experiment I took, because of the rebates and deals. $28K out the door. First one blew the transfer case seal on the way home, and then a 4-5 return trips for vibration. Never fixed it, so they gave me a new one. Then the new one would stall at highway speeds. They told me that we don't drive it hard enough so the valves where carboning up. HAHAHAA. Dumped it, with 15K miles on it for $15K, one year later. That was NOT a good deal, afterall....

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I've got 130,000 miles between a 2003 Ford Explorer, 2008 Shelby GT500, 2005 Mustang GT. Haven't experienced any of these American car-maker stereotypes. Maybe you're living in the nineties?

 

I drove the 05 Mustang GT into the ground, literally. 72,000 miles and the last mile was a 3 roll flip into a median. These cars are very reliable and well built. Also keep in mind the S197 consistantly gets top ratings for reliability and build quality.

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I am not speaking in theory. I have stopped buying American cars, with the exception of the GT500 and the GT Stang prior. I am a Stang nut and even an American car nut. I love them all and wish I could feel differently.

 

You say you see things in the news. If you don't own them, you don't see how they bend over backwords to make things right. I have owned many, and starting in 1999 I decided to make a change to reduce my frustration owning cars.

 

I have now been driving Lexus and Acura since 1999 and have racked up over 500,000 miles between (2) RX330's and (2) TSX's. Each had a problem or two, and each time the manufacturer (Acura and Lexus) fixed them even out of warranty. They may not build them better, but they support them ALOT BETTER! I had a throw out bearing go on a TSX, 15K over the warranty, and they fixed it free of charge. Radiator in an RX330 and they fixed it at 90K, free of charge. Loaners everytime and a porter job when I pick them up. I had AC fail on a Contour SVT about 5K out of warranty. $1000 and it failed again. $500 more and it failed again. The entire rotor and caliper on one side of the SVT Contour was WRONG! Is was the standard Contour stuff. Smaller rotor, caliper, etc... Yeh...they build them good!

 

As you said the Highlander had a recall. Recall means that they FIXED them free of charge. Not so with my $5K clutch from Ford.

 

I don't want to argue, but when people don't understand the massive difference between the ways these companies treat their customers, then they (Ford, GM, Chromoc) just keep getting away with treating the customers like crap. Well....I guess they really arn't getting away with anymore are they??? We are all spending a ton of our hard earned money keeping at least two of them afloat... sad...really sad....

 

I WANT to buy Amercian, but American car makers need to wake up and understand their is a HUGE gap between them and the competition. My clutch in my GT500, says that they still don't get it....

 

Whoops...I had to ammend this. I forgot about the 2002 Grand Cherokee experiment I took, because of the rebates and deals. $28K out the door. First one blew the transfer case seal on the way home, and then a 4-5 return trips for vibration. Never fixed it, so they gave me a new one. Then the new one would stall at highway speeds. They told me that we don't drive it hard enough so the valves where carboning up. HAHAHAA. Dumped it, with 15K miles on it for $15K, one year later. That was NOT a good deal, afterall....

 

 

Unfortunately Alloy, I couldn't agree more. The sad thing is I wish I didn't. My DD's are two Acura TL's. The only issue I've had with them was the OEM Bridgestones that came on my '04.(111,000 mi) They told me to go get the tires I wanted and send them the bill :lurk: .................on tires!

 

I really wanted to buy the Lincoln MKX or the Edge and just couldn't bring myself to do it. My mom just traded in her Escape for a CRV. The Escape was a decent truck but it was out of warranty and was constantly in for repairs on her dime plus her time.

 

I wish it was different, I really do.

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I've got 130,000 miles between a 2003 Ford Explorer, 2008 Shelby GT500, 2005 Mustang GT. Haven't experienced any of these American car-maker stereotypes. Maybe you're living in the nineties?

 

I drove the 05 Mustang GT into the ground, literally. 72,000 miles and the last mile was a 3 roll flip into a median. These cars are very reliable and well built. Also keep in mind the S197 consistantly gets top ratings for reliability and build quality.

 

Maybe I am in the nineties? I don't know. Maybe you consider 72K miles a high mileage car? I don't.... My cars are asked to go 120-150K and with the Acura and Lexus, they do without complaint or cost.

 

My GT500 is a 2008, and it has a "potentially" crap clutch, which according to this thread, Ford wants to make it harder to get it fixed.

 

Consider your domestic experience luck, and when you start having the experiences I have, and I hope you don't, you will understand.....

 

I really want to be a good American and buy American cars, but the past hasn't worked for me. If Ford doesn't voluntarily replace the clutch in my car, when I ask, then I probably won't buy another, with the exception of cars like GT500, Z06, Viper....

 

I really only buy them, because of the history, mystique, etc... I am not a fan of foriegn performance cars, but maybe someday if I get pissed enough, I'll buy a 911.....

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Unfortunately Alloy, I couldn't agree more. The sad thing is I wish I didn't. My DD's are two Acura TL's. The only issue I've had with them was the OEM Bridgestones that came on my '04.(111,000 mi) They told me to go get the tires I wanted and send them the bill :lurk: .................on tires!

 

I really wanted to buy the Lincoln MKX or the Edge and just couldn't bring myself to do it. My mom just traded in her Escape for a CRV. The Escape was a decent truck but it was out of warranty and was constantly in for repairs on her dime plus her time.

 

I wish it was different, I really do.

 

I have had to literally argue with service managers at Ford and Jeep dealers and got so mad I couldn't sleep at night. I have NEVER had anything like that at a Lexus or Acura dealer. The last straw was a service manager at a Ford dealer tell me to go buy a Honda, because they are sick of me. He said you will have just as many problems over there. So I did, bought Acura and Lexus, and he was wrong.

 

My experience echos with my dad, who traded a SHO in on a TL, and even hardcore union relatives, that after years of major pressure to buy American, have even tried a Honda or two. They end up loving them....

 

I keep hoping Ford gets this all right, because I want to buy Fords. But then they go and pull this shit with the clutch......

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I'm curious, what is the cost of replacement of this troublesome TSB if and when the factory warranty is out? Can this be a reason besides the economy issue that the prices of these GT500's are dropping so drastically?

 

Our FJ Cruiser is rocking and we picked it over the Edge simply because of the warranty and honestly the dealer did treat us better and not talked down to us.

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I've got 130,000 miles between a 2003 Ford Explorer, 2008 Shelby GT500, 2005 Mustang GT. Haven't experienced any of these American car-maker stereotypes. Maybe you're living in the nineties? What does the 90's have to do with anything?

 

I drove the 05 Mustang GT into the ground, literally. 72,000 miles and the last mile was a 3 roll flip into a median.

 

Um.... 72k isn't very much.

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I don't want this to get distracted to a foreign VS domestic dispute.

But I believe that we can agree that you can get a "good one" or a "bad one" from either.

The issue is treatment after the sale.

 

I think this may bring us to the profitability of the dealer. The claim is that domestic dealers are competing between each other and driving new car sales to minimal profits. The dealers profits are made from used car sales and service.

It seems to me the desire to keep repeat new car customers happy would be lost in that kind of situation.

Maybe this explains some of the difference between dealer attitude?

 

But without strong support from the manufacture, the dealers hands may be tied in a lot of situations. But if a repeat new car sale was a stronger incentive, the dealer may be willing to shoulder some of the cost.

There again, better profitability may allow domestics manufactures to give back to the customer. But the consumer would have to swallow a higher buy in price. i.e. Buy a cheap chevy or a more expensive toyota?

 

That is my problem, the long dollar was spent on these Shelby's and foreign levels of service was expected after the sale, rather than being treated the same as someone who bought a Ford Focus. (No offense to any focus owners out there...)

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I'm also disappointed with some of Ford's warranty coverage. I think they have opened a new department, the Non-Warranty Department. Or maybe they call it the Warranty Denial Center. They denied my claim for a new tire even though Goodyear approved it. I agree with the position that all these clutches and trans should be recalled. I've got 4 Fords parked in my driveway right now, and I doubt that I will be looking at another one when I need a new car.

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Well since this appears to have turned into a bashing thread, here's my *experience*.

 

Cars I have owned:

 

'66 Mustang 'vert, 289 V8 (why did I let you go!!!)

'93 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 (AWD V6 Twin turbo)

'98 Honda Civic

03 Ford Focus SE *

04 Ford Focus ZX3

05 Honda Odyssey *

07 GT500 *

* = still own

 

I still have the 03 focus and the minivan. I bought the premium warranty on the '03 for $1000, 6-year, 100,000 mile. Had a problem with front brakes, fixed. Dealer had it in a couple of times trying to diagnose it, but they did, and fixed it. The honda minivan has an extremely weird clunking turning the wheel that I have yet to persuade them to fix, though they don't have a reasonable explanation for what it is. I should push them on it, but I've "been too busy". The 3000GT. Wow. That thing was just too highly strung, and crammed in to too small a space. A/C was repaired only after about a year of in and out and them basically waiting until it ran out of factory warranty and on to a third party warranty I bought. It went through three transmissions, the last one, again, covered by the third-party warranty. Every time I took it to the dealer to get serviced, something went wrong *after*. One time they didn't tighten the brake fluid cap, so it sloshed all over the engine going around a cloverleaf - black "smoke" billowing out from under the hood is pretty depressing. After a service in which it was removed and replaced, the thermostat stuck, overheating the engine. The engine management failed and had to be replaced. Etc.

 

And finally my GT500. Leaky rear pinion - replaced. They also reckon that the seals on the tranny need redoing after the TSB some 3000 miles ago. Fixing next week. All of this under warranty. No hesitation to get it done.

 

Now this note about the clutch TSB, I have to agree, is pretty sucky, but you can understand why they are doing it. Ford just doesn't have the money right now and I imagine they are hoping you can wait till 2011 or 2012. It seems clear to me that it is a systemic defect in design and should be a recall. However, it is also clear that they are only turning them down if you don't have the actual symptoms. So get in her and drive through LA at rush hour. Problem solved, er, caused.

 

I'm glad I wrote this, because looking back, I realize I've actually had really good service from my Ford dealers (Ken Grody and Encinitas Ford), but my experience with Mitsubishi had tainted my view of dealers in general.

 

James

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I don't even expect Ford to give me Acura / Lexus level service. That would entail fixing it out of warranty, and they won't even fix in under warranty.

 

Now they put pressure on the dealers not to fix our cars unless the thing has practically failed on the road somewhere.

 

The more I write about this, the more pissed I get.

 

We (GT500) owners are supposed to be the kinda people who go to parties, work, etc... and gush about how great Ford is. We promote the brand. Then they screw us over, because some bean counter decides they are spending too much to fix GT500's that they, once again, 1/2 ass engineered. Clearly a material change, and some tolerances, etc.. and whamo, all is fixed.

 

I can't believe Alan Mullaly would put up with this crap if he knew about it. He seems to get it, and really understand, but some 1/2 baked system that promotes NOT fixing cars seems to be still in place one the service side of the business. Till they fix that, no more Fords in the driveway....

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IMHO everyone is complaining way to much for malfunction that, yes, Ford does know about. So why gripe? If you car exhibits the symptoms of the TSB, take it in, get it fixed, move on.

 

The TSB that is out right now isn't a recall, and it is not because it isn't a "safety" concern.

 

If your GT500 is causing you SO MUCH TROUBLE, sell it, buy a Lexis, and gamble on a foreign market. I'll take my GT500 over anything, bad clutch or not. Mine was just repaired. It is having issues now with the driveline, but OH WELL! They are fixing it!

 

Am I saying that Ford couldn't deal with this issue any better? No... it could be better, yes.

 

At least they are doing something. I get a full night's rest even though I have kinks. Life is too short to spend so much negative energy on a material object.

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IMHO everyone is complaining way to much for malfunction that, yes, Ford does know about. So why gripe? If you car exhibits the symptoms of the TSB, take it in, get it fixed, move on.

 

The TSB that is out right now isn't a recall, and it is not because it isn't a "safety" concern.

 

If your GT500 is causing you SO MUCH TROUBLE, sell it, buy a Lexis, and gamble on a foreign market. I'll take my GT500 over anything, bad clutch or not. Mine was just repaired. It is having issues now with the driveline, but OH WELL! They are fixing it!

 

Am I saying that Ford couldn't deal with this issue any better? No... it could be better, yes.

 

At least they are doing something. I get a full night's rest even though I have kinks. Life is too short to spend so much negative energy on a material object.

 

Yeah, buy you got yours fixed. And so did I with almost NO symptoms. Bottom line is, It's a problem, and shame on Ford for making it harder for people to get it fixed. They're just trying to save money, not saving customers. It's a shame, but it WON'T change.

 

Edit: If mine hadn't been fixed, I'd put it on jack stands and slip it till it broke. :speedie:

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Yeah, buy you got yours fixed. And so did I with almost NO symptoms. Bottom line is, It's a problem, and shame on Ford for making it harder for people to get it fixed. They're just trying to save money, not saving customers. It's a shame, but it WON'T change.

 

Edit: If mine hadn't been fixed, I'd put it on jack stands and slip it till it broke. :speedie:

 

+1, shame it is. I am not so sure that Ford is making it more difficult on us, though - they are just saying that if yours isn't exhibiting the symptoms of the TSB, good luck getting it done, that is all. Honestly, I would make the same decision. If parts returned from TSB repairs were looking normal, then I would be a little more strict for sure, that is just common sense to me.

 

I am not saying that this situation isn't unfortunate - it definitely is.

 

It was like that book "The Wave." Once it starts... it is hard to stop!

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Could someone here more intelligent please explain since it is a fact that all GT500s built prior to a certain date were built with no lube on the input shaft and built with a flywheel that will at some point in time prematurely warp. According to everyone on here it is not a matter of if but a matter of when your GT500 breaks down due to this TSB.

 

Therefore, why is Ford not just fixing all cars built prior to a certain date regardless of symptoms.

 

Some one is not telling the truth, because every single Team Shelby member has said to me that my car was not magically built and will suffer the same fate as any other 07 GT500.

 

Come on, this seems unfair that someone with TSB characteristics can get the proper parts installed that should have been installed in the car from the get go but because I and others may not be exhibiting enough of the TSB can not get the new, proper, parts installed.

 

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Could someone here more intelligent please explain since it is a fact that all GT500s built prior to a certain date were built with no lube on the input shaft and built with a flywheel that will at some point in time prematurely warp. According to everyone on here it is not a matter of if but a matter of when your GT500 breaks down due to this TSB.

 

Therefore, why is Ford not just fixing all cars built prior to a certain date regardless of symptoms.

 

Some one is not telling the truth, because every single Team Shelby member has said to me that my car was not magically built and will suffer the same fate as any other 07 GT500.

 

Come on, this seems unfair that someone with TSB characteristics can get the proper parts installed that should have been installed in the car from the get go but because I and others may not be exhibiting enough of the TSB can not get the new, proper, parts installed.

 

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

The golden question!! I think that Ford will forever run away from that :mad:

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I've got a Motorcraft place mat with the GT500 on it. It says " the pace car for an entire company". You'd think that "pace car" owners might get a little better treatment.

 

As Sic points out, maybe there's no recall because it's not a safety issue. Shouldn't there at least be a letter from Ford to the affected owners?

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