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Anybody here installed or know of anyone that has a new set of cams, using the stock valve springs in thier Shelby GT/Mustang 4.6 3v car? I am needing informaiton and ideas and I can't seem to find a real world user, just reviews. I have new phase limiters on hand. Lookng to add a mild supercharger down the road. I know a cam change would help, and is obtainable right now.

:headscratch:

Thanks

 

I need a spell check feature on this site.

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I installed Comp stage 2 cams in my SGT. Here's the thread about it http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/index.php...c=38980&hl=

If you go with stage 1 cams, you keep your stock springs. Stage 2 or 3 require upgraded springs and retainers.

Also, cam phaser limiters are only required on their stage 3 setup. Good luck.

 

Ken

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I installed Comp stage 2 cams in my SGT. Here's the thread about it http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/index.php...c=38980&hl=

If you go with stage 1 cams, you keep your stock springs. Stage 2 or 3 require upgraded springs and retainers.

Also, cam phaser limiters are only required on their stage 3 setup. Good luck.

 

Ken

 

Ken thanks for the info. I must have missed or slept somewhere when you posted your cam swap. So are you happy? I believe I am going with the stage 1, not wanting to much lope just some thump and a little more low end torque, and I am not ready to swap springs just yet. As for the FRP cams, to much for the same from comp or crane. Let us know what your dyno #s ended after a little test & tuning. Good Luck.

 

Btw - Sound track was pretty cool.

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff

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Ken thanks for the info. I must have missed or slept somewhere when you posted your cam swap. So are you happy? I believe I am going with the stage 1, not wanting to much lope just some thump and a little more low end torque, and I am not ready to swap springs just yet. As for the FRP cams, to much for the same from comp or crane. Let us know what your dyno #s ended after a little test & tuning. Good Luck.

 

Btw - Sound track was pretty cool.

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff

Ya Jeff I love the cams, I'm really happy I had them installed. It's the meanest sounding 4.6L I've heard and I get swarmed with gear heads all the time wanting to know how/why it sounds the way it does. I hit 334 RWHP on the dyno pull right after the cams, but that was before a few other mods and running an extremely conservative tune.

I need to schedule another go at it before I do anything else to the engine. I'm sure you'll love the cams, no matter which stage you end up running. Good luck.

 

Ken

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I have the FRPP cams; they are nice for the sound, but unless you do something to free up the exhaust, you'll only gain about 10HP, and obviously loose some below 3000RPM. I believe the NSR Comp Cams are the same; you need to open up the exhaust to get anything decent out of them.

 

Note, that this 10HP over a basically stock Shelby GT (with a tune to match the cams) is pretty much what one should expect based on the claims by Ford. People tend to forget that when they say 30HP gain over stock that a CAI and tune alone are good for about 20HP. So, the cams are good for another 10HP.

 

Would I do it again; no. Mainly because I like how the car sounds and don't want to mess with the exhaust.

 

Save your money for the supercharger.

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I have the FRPP cams; they are nice for the sound, but unless you do something to free up the exhaust, you'll only gain about 10HP, and obviously loose some below 3000RPM. I believe the NSR Comp Cams are the same; you need to open up the exhaust to get anything decent out of them.

 

Note, that this 10HP over a basically stock Shelby GT (with a tune to match the cams) is pretty much what one should expect based on the claims by Ford. People tend to forget that when they say 30HP gain over stock that a CAI and tune alone are good for about 20HP. So, the cams are good for another 10HP.

 

Would I do it again; no. Mainly because I like how the car sounds and don't want to mess with the exhaust.

 

Save your money for the supercharger.

Are you using the phase limiters? Just curious. Sounds like I may do both. Cams, and exhaust then if I still feel the need, S/C in the fall. I am really looking for a broader performance range without overpowering the car. I enjoy the way the SGT handles on our windy roads. Lacks a little when pulling out of an uphill steep turn. I also don't want to go to low of gear due to fuel efficiency, wanting the hp/tourque to help a little more. Maybe I am a little too picky. Mostly I love to test and tune my SGT. The CL Intake shows lots of promise also. Cheap HP per reviews, don't know the cost yet.

 

Thanks again,

 

Jeff

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Are you using the phase limiters? Just curious. Sounds like I may do both. Cams, and exhaust then if I still feel the need, S/C in the fall. I am really looking for a broader performance range without overpowering the car. I enjoy the way the SGT handles on our windy roads. Lacks a little when pulling out of an uphill steep turn. I also don't want to go to low of gear due to fuel efficiency, wanting the hp/tourque to help a little more. Maybe I am a little too picky. Mostly I love to test and tune my SGT. The CL Intake shows lots of promise also. Cheap HP per reviews, don't know the cost yet.

 

Thanks again,

 

Jeff

I've been eyeballing that CL intake too. I think I settled on the MMR 'Spyder' manifold though, unless the CL turns out to be a lot cheaper.

The Spyder is almost $3K. http://www.modularmustangracing.com/

 

Ken

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Are you using the phase limiters? Just curious. Sounds like I may do both. Cams, and exhaust then if I still feel the need, S/C in the fall. I am really looking for a broader performance range without overpowering the car. I enjoy the way the SGT handles on our windy roads. Lacks a little when pulling out of an uphill steep turn. I also don't want to go to low of gear due to fuel efficiency, wanting the hp/tourque to help a little more. Maybe I am a little too picky. Mostly I love to test and tune my SGT. The CL Intake shows lots of promise also. Cheap HP per reviews, don't know the cost yet.

 

Thanks again,

 

Jeff

 

 

FYI if you plan to Supercharge down the road Cams are a waste of money, I was looking at doing them as well, they would really just be for sound if you are Supercharging, thats a lot of money for sound........

 

Just me 2 cents, I went through the same decision

 

Good Luck

 

Bill

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I've been eyeballing that CL intake too. I think I settled on the MMR 'Spyder' manifold though, unless the CL turns out to be a lot cheaper.

The Spyder is almost $3K. http://www.modularmustangracing.com/

 

Ken

Looks like the C&L is around $800. Big difference in price between the two. Spyder appears mainly for high rpm apps, more custom built. C&L is a casting, some machine work, much less labor to manufactor. I am also thinking about the charge motion delete plates. Any ideas or tried this. Looks like may help with cams.

Hmmm - $300 for cams, $800 for intake, headers and exhaust no matter what. Adding up but still not to bad.

:dance:

Thanks for all the input.

 

Jeff

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FYI if you plan to Supercharge down the road Cams are a waste of money, I was looking at doing them as well, they would really just be for sound if you are Supercharging, thats a lot of money for sound........

 

Just me 2 cents, I went through the same decision

 

Good Luck

 

Bill

How do you figure? Adding boost doesn't necessarily 'cancel out' your other mods. If you buy the 400HP Whipple, but already have 400HP N/A, you'll be close to making 500HP when finished.

Google any boost to HP calculator online.

 

 

Looks like the C&L is around $800. Big difference in price between the two. Spyder appears mainly for high rpm apps, more custom built. C&L is a casting, some machine work, much less labor to manufactor. I am also thinking about the charge motion delete plates. Any ideas or tried this. Looks like may help with cams.

Hmmm - $300 for cams, $800 for intake, headers and exhaust no matter what. Adding up but still not to bad.

:dance:

Thanks for all the input.

 

Jeff

I've had the Steeda billet plates in my garage for awhile. I intend on installing them this week. I've heard good things. I'll let you know how it turns out.

 

Don't forget the FRPP cylinder heads. Supposed to be good for about 35 more HP.

Good call. Stage 2 or 3 MMR heads have been in my plans for a few months, but the FRPP heads would be a good choice too.

 

Ken

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the prob with big cams and forced induction is the overlap it leaks lots of boost off so big cams and boost dont mix usually a boosted car will run a cam with big lift and little overlap where as a NA car will run big lift and lots of overlap to help charge the cylinder.

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the prob with big cams and forced induction is the overlap it leaks lots of boost off so big cams and boost dont mix usually a boosted car will run a cam with big lift and little overlap where as a NA car will run big lift and lots of overlap to help charge the cylinder.

You're right about that, but the boost leak doesn't necessarily have to be significant, depending on the cam profile you go with.

Lots of guys run cams with a boosted engine and see nearly the same performance gains from those cams as a guy with an NA block.

Regardless, it's far from a 'waste of money'. So your 40HP gain from the cams drops to 35HP, post S/C. I'll take that plus the big cam sound any day of the week! :)

If/when I ever add a blower, I'll most certainly be running stage 2 cams along with it.

 

Ken

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You're right about that, but the boost leak doesn't necessarily have to be significant, depending on the cam profile you go with.

Lots of guys run cams with a boosted engine and see nearly the same performance gains from those cams as a guy with an NA block.

Regardless, it's far from a 'waste of money'. So your 40HP gain from the cams drops to 35HP, post S/C. I'll take that plus the big cam sound any day of the week! :)

If/when I ever add a blower, I'll most certainly be running stage 2 cams along with it.

 

Ken

 

yeah i think you should be ok stage one or two but anything over those and IMHO you would be much better off going with a cam specifically ground for forced induction they are out there.

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yeah i think you should be ok stage one or two but anything over those and IMHO you would be much better off going with a cam specifically ground for forced induction they are out there.

I agree with that completely. Comp makes an FI cam of many profiles that I know of. If I was starting with a fresh setup and planning on boost from the get-go, I'd go with an FI grind for sure.

 

Ken

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I agree with that completely. Comp makes an FI cam of many profiles that I know of. If I was starting with a fresh setup and planning on boost from the get-go, I'd go with an FI grind for sure.

 

Ken

I emailed a list of what I intend to do, to Comp, Crane and FRP. My short term and long term plans. I will see what I get back and pass it on. To be honest, if I can get a solid 375 plus rwhp, I won't S/C. For my needs I wouldn't need it, + longer engine life.

 

Thanks For all the input.

 

Jeff

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I agree with that completely. Comp makes an FI cam of many profiles that I know of. If I was starting with a fresh setup and planning on boost from the get-go, I'd go with an FI grind for sure.

 

Ken

 

 

That was my point. For me the extra power was very little, I do LOVE the sound. I just could not justify the cost. Every one has different opinions. I was also told the FI does not sound as good as the other Cams as well, but I have never heard them.

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I installed FRPP cams in my car and at my last dyno pull it was at 347 RWHP. I have longtube headers and underdrive pulleys. Besides the custom tune that's about it. Love the sound and the car pulls hard in the upper RMP's especially after 2500. I'm going to go to 4:10 rear gears later to help it at the lower RMP ranges.

As far as going with a S/C you need to research what you want. There are some S/C and blowers that will not work with FRPP cams or the COMP stage cams. Paxton and Prochargers may work with them but roots style like the Whipple and Kenny Bell use different cams due to cam duration differences. There are cams out there specifically for S/C and Blower applications. So beware what you buy now it may not work for you later depending on your set up.

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I installed FRPP cams in my car and at my last dyno pull it was at 347 RWHP. I have longtube headers and underdrive pulleys. Besides the custom tune that's about it. Love the sound and the car pulls hard in the upper RMP's especially after 2500. I'm going to go to 4:10 rear gears later to help it at the lower RMP ranges.

As far as going with a S/C you need to research what you want. There are some S/C and blowers that will not work with FRPP cams or the COMP stage cams. Paxton and Prochargers may work with them but roots style like the Whipple and Kenny Bell use different cams due to cam duration differences. There are cams out there specifically for S/C and Blower applications. So beware what you buy now it may not work for you later depending on your set up.

Good Info.

 

Thanks everyone. Will still post recommend data from FRP,Comp and Crane when I get it.

 

347 RWHP NICE!!. That is impressive with such a fairly mild setup, Oh, I almost forgot and only 281 cubes.

Hoo Yah!

Jeff

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There are some S/C and blowers that will not work with FRPP cams or the COMP stage cams. Paxton and Prochargers may work with them but roots style like the Whipple and Kenny Bell use different cams due to cam duration differences. There are cams out there specifically for S/C and Blower applications. So beware what you buy now it may not work for you later depending on your set up.

Nearly any cam will 'work' with any blower. An FI cam has a grind specifically designed to reduce the boost leak. An NA cam, as discussed on page 1 of this thread, will most certainly work with a roots style blower. It's just a little less efficient, but produces a beefier sound.

 

Ken

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whats involved in installing FRPP cams? do i need to upgrade springs and retainers and the tune? i just want some loping at the stoplights like i do on my harley. B)

or would the stage 1 comp cams be sufficient for that thumpin idle sound?

 

i just cant stand the smooth idle of stock cams on this SGT...sounds too timid. i want it to sound somewhat like a muscle car from the old days.

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whats involved in installing FRPP cams? do i need to upgrade springs and retainers and the tune? i just want some loping at the stoplights like i do on my harley. B)

or would the stage 1 comp cams be sufficient for that thumpin idle sound?

 

i just cant stand the smooth idle of stock cams on this SGT...sounds too timid. i want it to sound somewhat like a muscle car from the old days.

 

FRP makes the thumper cams, works with stock springs. For me cam change is not a hard thing to do. I've swapped the 4.6 2v, 5.4 4v. Don't drop the chain!. If not expierienced find someone that is. Clearance it close and you need to make sure all is proeprly aligned and in time. Ford actually made this realatively easy. with line up marks and pins. Get a book and read up, lots of data out there. I just like to know what others have already done and get opinions of performance with each mod. I decided on the comp cams stage 1, for the thump, allready have a BBK throttle body, addng a C&L intake, dual fuel pump then a 5-7 psi paxton for the old school look. More than enough GO for my daily needs. Mostl likely adding these mods in the listed order.

 

Good luck,

 

Jeff

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FRP makes the thumper cams, works with stock springs. For me cam change is not a hard thing to do. I've swapped the 4.6 2v, 5.4 4v. Don't drop the chain!. If not expierienced find someone that is. Clearance it close and you need to make sure all is proeprly aligned and in time. Ford actually made this realatively easy. with line up marks and pins. Get a book and read up, lots of data out there. I just like to know what others have already done and get opinions of performance with each mod. I decided on the comp cams stage 1, for the thump, allready have a BBK throttle body, addng a C&L intake, dual fuel pump then a 5-7 psi paxton for the old school look. More than enough GO for my daily needs. Mostl likely adding these mods in the listed order.

 

Good luck,

 

Jeff

i was just goin to have Ford to do the work. i dont have the kinda workshop or tools to do it.

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azmartin/kahmann,

 

I was just going to start a thread asking if anyone is considering the C&L intake. I'm thinking about this modification myself. Please post your impressions once you install. Read about it in current MMFF magazine.

 

Baseline on modified mustang GT was 341rwhp and 317rwtq (stock intake manifold, long tube headers, cams, off road pipe, C&L Racer Intake and tuning). With the C&L it got 368rwhp and 315rwtq (while peak was down slightly the "curve was more aggressive and flatter than stock")

 

On the C&L website a totally stock car got 17 more hp with the C&L plenum. Wonder how much of this gain was due to dynotuning. http://www.cnlperformance.com/05_3v.html

 

EDIT: Answered my own question. Found this on the Bamachips site

http://www.bamachips.com/store/index.php?m...ecf4809ef596b8c

made clear gains of more then 17 rwhp and 20 rwtq on a stock engine with only an air intake and Bamachips tune. The gains were more clearly noticed over 4500 rpms as expected on a stock engine as the true performance gains of this intake will be noticed with the more modifications you add to your car.
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EDIT: Answered my own question. Found this on the Bamachips site

http://www.bamachips.com/store/index.php?m...ecf4809ef596b8c

 

Just realize that you can get the same gains on a stock GT as quoted by Bamachips with just a simple intake (not the manifold) and a Bama tune. Hence, one concludes the intake manifold is useless on a stock motor... This is how we get 20+ HP over a stock GT...

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Yea, I've been reading more on this on other sites since I posted above, and so far it looks like close to stock cars aren't seeing much hp/tq improvement.

Well that's a bummer. I've been on an NA kick since I bought this car, only considering boost a couple of times and not very seriously.

More lately, however, I've been drooling over a Paxton Novi 2200. I wonder what the benefit would be of running the CL intake with a centrifugal blower like the Paxton?

Have you heard of anyone running that setup?

 

Ken

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