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Coolant - What brand to use !!!


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Looking to flush my system and have seen different brands that say pre-mixed and promise of making engine run cooler !!! Who to believe in ????

 

Anthony :headscratch:

 

I do not recommend using anything but the OEM Motorcraft Coolant [Gold / Yellow]. I believe it is called:

 

Motorcraft Premium Gold Engine Coolant with Bittering Agent

Part Number: VC-7-B or VC-7-D

 

Get confirmation of this from a dealer as I believe this is the Mustang GT stock OEM coolant.

 

Here is a chart for all Ford vehicles indicating what coolant color and change specifications from Pre-1999 through and including 2010:

 

http://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/...ickref/scuc.pdf

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Hey guy's thanks for the response !! I usually like to change out the coolant every 2yrs just old school with that. But figured there is a coolant out there that would work to keep the temperature down. That's all, I did the royal purple but figured someone made a better product out there with all this new tech.

 

Thanks again

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  • 4 weeks later...
The OEM stuff isn't coolant, it's anti-freeze.

Dump the Ford crap and put any name brand coolant at a 20%-30% concentration. The rest should be water and RedLine's Water Wetter.

Good luck.

 

Ken

 

You are just plain WRONG with your "facts". First off.....coolant and antifreeze are the same thing...:doh: Its the antifreeze constituent in the "coolant" that provides the "cooling" by raising the overall coolant's boing point. Increasing the concentration of antifreeze in the coolant will raise its boiling temperature and lower its freezing point...however the maximum antifreeze concentration level should usually be limited to 65% to 70% because too much antifreeze and not enough water reduces the coolant's ability to carry heat - which increases the risk of overheating in hot weather.

 

The Motocraft Gold is the best cooling agent for the Mustangs. And not using it may cause a warranty issue depending on the circumstances of a radiator problem.

 

And a big NO to Redline's Water Wetter also as it was proven with use on the 2003 Mustang Cobra Terminators that it could cause a gunk build-up within the radiator core cells which was leading to circulation impedence in some of the Terminators using it...mine included.

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You are just plain WRONG with your "facts". The Motocraft Gold is the best cooling agent for the Mustangs. And not using it may cause a warranty issue depending on the circumstances of a radiator problem.

 

And a big NO to Redline's Water Wetter also as it was proven with use on the 2003 Mustang Cobra Terminators that it could cause a gunk build-up within the radiator core cells which was leading to circulation impedence in some of the Terminators using it...mine included.

 

And to avoid a pissing match with you I'm not debating this further with you as I have first hand knowledge of what it is I am saying.

LOL :hysterical:

No need to upset yourself buddy. I respectfully disagree with each of your 'facts'. I always get a kick out of people that preemptively end 'the debate' in any thread. :)

Thanks for the chuckle anyway..

 

Ken

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LOL :hysterical:

No need to upset yourself buddy. I respectfully disagree with each of your 'facts'. I always get a kick out of people that preemptively end 'the debate' in any thread. :)

Thanks for the chuckle anyway..

 

Ken

 

Yea I read it back to myself and thought it was too confrontational so I removed the last line...my BAD! You must have got me between edits! The point I was really trying to make here is that I have been working on cars since the original muscle car era. I am not a certified mechanic but I have 39 years working on the carburated muscle cars of the early 70's through to the present EFI cars. This has provided a working knowledge base of how cars mechanically run and operate.....plus provided me a ton of just plain understanding of how all things work together. I am not an armchair mechanic that just knows stuff garnered from internet discussions or from reading the forums on the internet. 39 years of working on my own cars brings alot of credability.

 

And as a historically speaking FYI....Prior to the mid to late 1970's most labels read as "anti-freeze" with no use of the word "coolant". It wasn't until the late 70's or early 80's that the word "coolant" started to be used because it was more accurate to consider the radiator as a "cooling" device which the word "anti-freeze" tended to confuse people that it was some extra ingredient they needed for the winter only. Its all semantics because it literally is all the same chemicals...the active ingredient chemicals are identically the same. The key is in in the anti-freeze (glycol) to water ratio to reach the ideal lowest freezing-point and the highest possible boiling point without impeding the heat tranfser properties of the water itself.

 

And again I am accurate with the Water Wetter information as well. You can look it up yourself if you can find posts going back to 2003 and 2004 in other Mustang forums that discuss the problems that Watter Wetter can cause. Some people will swear by it but there had been more than a coincedental handfull of folks that also ran into overheating issues using it as well due to a "slime" like buildup it can cause within the cells of the radiator. The issue really came to light during its use with the 2003 / 2004 Cobra Terminator for some reason as this was when the majority of the complaints against it first started really surfacing. It was thought that something in Water Wetter and something in the Motorcraft Gold was causing a "gelatinizing" reaction.

 

With all that said....as for your disagreeing with MY facts...you certainly can disagree as much as you want but with all due respect it is very clear that your not recognizing this to being nothing more than a matter of academic semantics is a clear indicator that your depth of understanding regarding this subject is a bit shallow....and you are still going to be WRONG in this particular case....I highly recommend you get real familiar and acquainted with how glycol ingredients and mixture ratios work to create the coolant characteristics. Glycol (anti-freeze) is both a cooling and boiling-point control active ingredient. That is why it is sold under both the labels "coolant" and "anti-freeze".

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All I say in response is that I disagree with you and 'the debate' is suddenly not over?

I don't give a :censored: enough about coolant to argue with you. What I suggested is what I've done and it's working out pretty damn well.

Browse the cooling threads in the GT500 mod section for a bit and you'll find lots of guys that have done and said similar things. Good luck Racer!

 

Ken

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All I say in response is that I disagree with you and 'the debate' is suddenly not over?

I don't give a :censored: enough about coolant to argue with you. What I suggested is what I've done and it's working out pretty damn well.

Browse the cooling threads in the GT500 mod section for a bit and you'll find lots of guys that have done and said similar things. Good luck Racer!

 

Ken

 

I'm not debating that what you use wouldn't work. What I had to say was about your rather pointed "dump the FORD crap" recommendation based on a completely clueless remark that "the OEM stuff isn't coolant , it's anti-freeze" . To down the OEM recommended product based on some off the cuff recommendation made with a clear lack of subject knowledge is bogus when making a recommendation to another member.

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I'm not debating that what you use wouldn't work. What I had to say was about your rather pointed "dump the FORD crap" recommendation based on a completely clueless remark that "the OEM stuff isn't coolant , it's anti-freeze" . To down the OEM recommended product based on some off the cuff recommendation made with a clear lack of subject knowledge is bogus when making a recommendation to another member.

You think I don't know that coolant IS anti-freeze? I didn't mean it literally. I was illustrating my belief that the Ford CRAP doesn't do much COOLING. Sorry you didn't understand that. This is getting stupid.

 

Ken

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I have owned a Mustang shop for 15+ years and really don't like to get involved in back and forth debates, but Ken is right here. Redline Water Wetter is tried and proven. I have used it for years in 120+ degree weather with distilled water and 20% coolant with no issues....

 

And not just in a "couple" cars....I am talking probably at least 500 cars over the years with no issues...and at least 100 of them being 03-04 Cobras, 99-04 Lightnings, and 07-09 GT500's in desert heat. No issues with gelling, or running hotter.

 

ALex

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I have owned a Mustang shop for 15+ years and really don't like to get involved in back and forth debates, but Ken is right here. Redline Water Wetter is tried and proven. I have used it for years in 120+ degree weather with distilled water and 20% coolant with no issues....

 

And not just in a "couple" cars....I am talking probably at least 500 cars over the years with no issues...and at least 100 of them being 03-04 Cobras, 99-04 Lightnings, and 07-09 GT500's in desert heat. No issues with gelling, or running hotter.

 

ALex

Thanks for the input dude (it was nice chatting with you last weekend at Grabberfest, by the way).

That's really all I was trying to say. Every performance shop I've ever used has sworn by Water Wetter, including Griggs Racing. Just another suggestion for Racer, that's all. I guess I don't have knock the OEM stuff, but I didn't think it would cause a debate. :lurk:

 

Ken

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I have owned a Mustang shop for 15+ years and really don't like to get involved in back and forth debates, but Ken is right here. Redline Water Wetter is tried and proven. I have used it for years in 120+ degree weather with distilled water and 20% coolant with no issues....

 

And not just in a "couple" cars....I am talking probably at least 500 cars over the years with no issues...and at least 100 of them being 03-04 Cobras, 99-04 Lightnings, and 07-09 GT500's in desert heat. No issues with gelling, or running hotter.

 

ALex

 

First off Ken is WRONG about coolant and antifreeze being different. They just simply are NOT different. Using the word "coolant" is the same as using the word "anti-freeze". Once again it is in the glycol to water ratio where the function of the product is produced. It is purely a matter of the same form and the same function.

 

As for the Water Wetter, I said that some swear by its use but others DO NOT. I used to be one of those people who swore by it until I bought my Cobra Terminator and mixed it with the Motorcraft Gold. Then and only then did I start to have overheating issues. Then I found some other folks experiencing the same thing using it in their Terminators. We all then came to find out that Watter Wetter could become "gelatinous" when mixed with certain "coolants" with Motorcraft Gold being the one suspected since it was stock to a Terminator and warranty dependent as well. Once my radiator was flushed out completely and refilled with just the Motorcraft Gold the problem vanished and never occurrred again. This was substantiated by a number of other Terminator owners as well.

 

Also Motorcraft does not recommend mixing Watter Wetter type products with their Gold product because Gold was formulated to perform the heat transfer function better than with a Water Wetter type product added. So again I say NO to its use because (1) of the possible "gelatinous" issue experienced with some Cobra Terminators including my own and (2) because Motorcraft Gold without additives performs the heat transfer function better than with additives added in.

 

As you stated, Water Wetter is tried and proven.... but it is NOT SO with all applications or products. There was a time when it was certainly unchallenged but there are cases now given some of the products being formulated today that the additives just aren't necessary and in some cases cause issues . All things in this world just aren't as black and white as you may want them to be. And to go on living as if everything is static and remains the same with the passing of time in the face of historical cases to the contrary is doing nothing but setting yourself up for an eventual fall. You want to add it in then be my guest. But don't come squawking here if you develop a heat problem and your warranty is denied as a result of putting in the additives....which is exactly what happened in my case and I had to pay for the flush and refill.

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Why do we seem to try to make these cars more special than they are. If we maintenance these cars like any other cars that we own then there shouldn't be any problems. If i had to perform maintenance on my Shelby any more often than my Honda or Dodge then i wouldn't have bought it. Ford makes a good product whether it is a truck or car and it doesn't have to be a mustang or Shelby for that matter. You can't go wrong using anything original equipment whether it's parts or fluids. I don't add additives to my oil and i don't add additives to my anti-freeze-coolant or whatever you want to call it. Most additives are just a feel good product. I try to drive my cars well over 100,000 miles and just do regular maintenance and i very seldom have a problem and when i do it's not because of lack of maintenance. Whatever happened to just using prestone anti-freeze-coolant with a 50/50 mix or is this just old school.Works for me.

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Why do we seem to try to make these cars more special than they are. If we maintenance these cars like any other cars that we own then there shouldn't be any problems. If i had to perform maintenance on my Shelby any more often than my Honda or Dodge then i wouldn't have bought it. Ford makes a good product whether it is a truck or car and it doesn't have to be a mustang or Shelby for that matter. You can't go wrong using anything original equipment whether it's parts or fluids. I don't add additives to my oil and i don't add additives to my anti-freeze-coolant or whatever you want to call it. Most additives are just a feel good product. I try to drive my cars well over 100,000 miles and just do regular maintenance and i very seldom have a problem and when i do it's not because of lack of maintenance. Whatever happened to just using prestone anti-freeze-coolant with a 50/50 mix or is this just old school.Works for me.

Once you begin modifying your car, other modifications may become necessary. That's really all I have left to say on it. Who would have thought that a coolant additive could strike such a nerve? :headscratch:

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First off Ken is WRONG about coolant and antifreeze being different. They just simply are NOT different. Using the word "coolant" is the same as using the word "anti-freeze". Once again it is in the glycol to water ratio where the function of the product is produced. It is purely a matter of the same form and the same function.

Did you not read what I wrote in response to your rambling? You misunderstood. :finger:

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Once you begin modifying your car, other modifications may become necessary. That's really all I have left to say on it. Who would have thought that a coolant additive could strike such a nerve? :headscratch:

 

 

What you just said we can at least agree on....

 

Even with forced aspiration I wouldn't consider Water Wetter as being needed, necessary or critical to such an application...and I cannot at the moment think of any other mod that would require such an additive need. Water Wetter is as ShelbyTexan correctly described as just a "feel good" product that Redline is making a bunch of money on through their slick advertising.

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I'd like to see something other than testimonial evidence with regard to the cooling enhancement of Water Wetter, as well as similar about its deleterious effects. Can't seem to find any by way of Google. Someone got some cites?

 

 

" ... apeshit stridency is self-limiting in its effect."

— Mike L.

 

 

"So one should be careful about giving advice and not having to deal with the consequences of that advice".

-- Condoleezza Rice

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I'd like to see something other than testimonial evidence with regard to the cooling enhancement of Water Wetter, as well as similar about its deleterious effects. Can't seem to find any by way of Google. Someone got some cites?

 

 

" ... apeshit stridency is self-limiting in its effect."

— Mike L.

 

 

"So one should be careful about giving advice and not having to deal with the consequences of that advice".

-- Condoleezza Rice

 

 

Here are a number of discussions typlifying bad happenings using Water Wetter:

 

http://www.wizdforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2338

 

....they aren't what I read 5 years ago but a similar point is being made. Read the entire forum dialog that is presented. You will find a number of references to the "slime" I referred to that is a by-product of Water Wetter.

 

This one below..particularly the second posting in line speaks directly to the problem I mentioned:

 

http://www.miata.net/products/perform/redlineww.html

 

It does mention how to correct the "gelatinous" problem but unfortunately the solution seems to be based on each coolant's PH makeup in order to effect the proper ratio solution. IMO this is why the guy chose to avoid WW altogether so he didn't have to deal with the hassle of figuring out PH for each brand of coolant.

Here is a quoted snippet from a side conversation I found:

 

"There's been lots of discussions over antifreeze vs ww/purple ice. I think the general conclusion was that waterwetter is a waste of money really. Anti-freeze kills bugs, prevents corrosion and lubricates the pump all at a very cheap price.....What does water wetter do thats so special? Supposedly speeds up heat transfer, but only kicks in when your coolant gets very very hot. That combined with the fact waterwetter supposedly ages some components in the loop makes me go for anti-freeze every time."

 

In defense of WW I will say at least this...there is much more positive that can be found in search results than against the product...but I still won't use it because of the "gelatenous experience" my Terminator was inconvenienced over.

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Here are a number of discussions typlifying bad happenings using Water Wetter:

 

http://www.wizdforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2338

 

....they aren't what I read 5 years ago but a similar point is being made. Read the entire forum dialog that is presented. You will find a number of references to the "slime" I referred to that is a by-product of Water Wetter.

 

This one below..particularly the second posting in line speaks directly to the problem I mentioned:

 

http://www.miata.net/products/perform/redlineww.html

 

It does mention how to correct the "gelatinous" problem but unfortunately the solution seems to be based on each coolant's PH makeup in order to effect the proper ratio solution. IMO this is why the guy chose to avoid WW altogether so he didn't have to deal with the hassle of figuring out PH for each brand of coolant.

Here is a quoted snippet from a side conversation I found:

 

"There's been lots of discussions over antifreeze vs ww/purple ice. I think the general conclusion was that waterwetter is a waste of money really. Anti-freeze kills bugs, prevents corrosion and lubricates the pump all at a very cheap price.....What does water wetter do thats so special? Supposedly speeds up heat transfer, but only kicks in when your coolant gets very very hot. That combined with the fact waterwetter supposedly ages some components in the loop makes me go for anti-freeze every time."

 

In defense of WW I will say at least this...there is much more positive that can be found in search results than against the product...but I still won't use it because of the "gelatenous experience" my Terminator was inconvenienced over.

 

Hey buddy just got released from federal lock-up !!! I had dinner with Sammy the bull he's would love to meet you !!! :finger::hysterical:

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All I say in response is that I disagree with you and 'the debate' is suddenly not over?

I don't give a :censored: enough about coolant to argue with you. What I suggested is what I've done and it's working out pretty damn well.

Browse the cooling threads in the GT500 mod section for a bit and you'll find lots of guys that have done and said similar things. Good luck Racer!

 

Ken

 

Thanks Ken !!! My head is still spin over the first statement Sky Dancer said a blue pill should stop it !!! :hysterical: Oh wait that was Viagra damn Honey I love you!!! :drool:

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I'd had the same experience when I searched, and I did find the testimonials you point at.

 

I don't believe in doing anti-warranty changes when it cold mean some major losses of utility and/or dollars. I use Mr Ford's Full Synthetic oil, both my cars are too young to contemplate changing other lubricants or coolant.

 

I just think about my sister, who bought second-hand Lotus Elan (early version, from 1966), with a "rebuilt" engine. It ran great for a couple hundred miles but began blowing smoke. She took it back, and after a week they gave it back to her, saying "Looks like the oil got contaminated somehow, ruined the rings". Rebuilt at no charge to her. Very nice. It eventually took us to numerous local class wins as well as seconds in the state slalom (what they called autocross in them days) runoffs, never another engine problem while we had it.

 

Sister wasn't all that automobile savvy back then, so when she got the car back she asked what oil to use, they recommended Castrol, and that was it, as far as she was concerned. I was a little more curious. I eventually got to talk to one of the technicians who worked on the car, before and after the smoky episodes. He said the first overhaul was as clean as any, at the time he couldn't imagine where all that sand came from. When it came back as a smoker, he got to poking around in the block, and there were still pockets of sand left over from the original casting process. He supposed they, and the ones that released the sand into the oil system, were covered by casting flashes that broke down when the engine was overhauled and the block was "tanked". A second tanking and careful inspection before assembly eliminated all traces of foreign matter in the oil system.

 

Point being, if you asked my sister what happened, she'd have said, "Oil didn't do its job. Castrol, I think." Not a good recommendation for Castrol, and a real disservice. If there were forums at that time, her testimonial might have tainted a lot of Castrol's otherwise excellent reputation.

 

Maybe we could persuade the Lubricant Guy to tackle coolant additives next?

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I have owned a Mustang shop for 15+ years and really don't like to get involved in back and forth debates, but Ken is right here. Redline Water Wetter is tried and proven. I have used it for years in 120+ degree weather with distilled water and 20% coolant with no issues....

 

And not just in a "couple" cars....I am talking probably at least 500 cars over the years with no issues...and at least 100 of them being 03-04 Cobras, 99-04 Lightnings, and 07-09 GT500's in desert heat. No issues with gelling, or running hotter.

 

ALex

 

Hey, I love your car that sharp as hell !! Nice set-up

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Hey guys go easy on Sky dancer, I have been coaching him in anger mangement !! He's hasn't noticed that I have been slipping my happy pills in his drinks. It takes awhile to take affect so for now just yes him to death. :hysterical:

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In my Whipple instructions they recommend adding water wetter in the S/C charge cooling circut.

Well I might have to go with the Whipple instead of the Paxton, since they obviously seem to know what they're doing! :hysterical:

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