clark17357 Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 A long time ago, Thomas Jefferson left us with some thoughts on subjects that seem to be as relevant today as they were when he spoke to them. I share them only to share them and not, necessarily, to claim them as my own. It seems that our greatest danger as citizens is to forget that most of the significant issues we face have been faced by those who came before us. If we choose not to learn from them it is our own failing. Jim "False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from man because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils, except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm those only who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Can it be supposed that those who have the courage to violate the most sacred laws of humanity, will respect the less important arbitrary ones....and which, if strictly obeyed would put a end to personal liberty?....Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; They serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than a armed man." "Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." "What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that its people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." "Does the government fear us? Or do we fear the government? When the people fear the government, tyranny has found victory. The federal government is our` servant, not our master!" "The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases." "Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of the day, but a series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period, unalterable through every change of ministers, too plainly prove a deliberate, systematical plan of reducing us to slavery." "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be... The people cannot be safe without information. Where the press is free and every man is able to read, all is safe." "Experience has shown that even under the best forms (of government) those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Doctor Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 "...Where the press is free and every man is able to read, all is safe." Too bad this was written in the day when there was such a thing a journalistic integrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stump_breaker Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 It is important to support the NRA. We have our guns rights chipped away a little at a time by those who either want to control the population or those who do not see the need for guns because they themselves do not own one. It's obvious the ones trying to control us are our enemies. The ones who see no need for guns are sheep expecting the dog to protect them from the wolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnsignaldelete Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 A long time ago, Thomas Jefferson left us with some thoughts on subjects that seem to be as relevant today as they were when he spoke to them. I share them only to share them and not, necessarily, to claim them as my own. It seems that our greatest danger as citizens is to forget that most of the significant issues we face have been faced by those who came before us. If we choose not to learn from them it is our own failing. Jim "What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that its people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." "Does the government fear us? Or do we fear the government? When the people fear the government, tyranny has found victory. The federal government is our` servant, not our master!" Each word of your post, is Historically correct and applicable, to our current, massive threat, (obama, pelosi, reed) of a Socialist/Communist take over of the United States. I fear the worst. Yet without a massive 'Rising up' of 'American Patriots', our great Country', will be lost to, the the mind numbing Socialist/ Communist mind set. That Freedom is not valued, that we have no rights to protect ourselves and our family's from the violent amoug us. That the Government will tell, us all, everything, from when to get up, to when have a family, where to work, and what we get for our Labor, SOCILISM/COMMUNISM. All Americans should stop looking to the , Free Handout', that obama, is offering. The Hand out's are not Free, they come at the expense of your Freedom and Liberty, and that of your children. With out a, 'New Beginning, in the United States of America, Freedom, will be, no more then a Historical, foot note of American History. "...Where the press is free and every man is able to read, all is safe."Too bad this was written in the day when there was such a thing a journalistic integrity. Absolutely. 'Right on the Money'. The Integrity of today's, Journalists and , Political Commentators, is almost non-existent. How about, Journalists and, 'News Media' types, just reporting the NEWS, as it happens, without the, 'Political Garble', from Either side of the Isle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hawkins Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 I would like to see what High School Seniors would write if asked to write about "What is Freedom and what does it mean to you". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torch40 Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 "Does the government fear us? Or do we fear the government?" I don't think anyone thinks the government fears us. Jefferson would roll over if he saw what we are today. Even before Obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 Tell me you didn't know this was coming! :happy feet: "False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from man because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils, except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm those only who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Can it be supposed that those who have the courage to violate the most sacred laws of humanity, will respect the less important arbitrary ones....and which, if strictly obeyed would put a end to personal liberty?....Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; They serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than a armed man." As false as this quote! Sorry, he never said this though it's been quoted all over the gun sites. "Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." He actually said: "As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body, and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun, therefore, be the constant companion of your walks." Not sure though myself how many calories you burn walking with a gun...might just be a new niche! The Gun Weight Loss Program! :happy feet: "What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that its people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." What he said was: "God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ... What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." Now I think we can all agree, or maybe not, that a rebellion every 20 years isn't really a good thing, if we had that we'd be no better off than the middle east has been with a similar history of violence. The rest you can debate but I think this is a great example of 18th century thought and not 21st century reality. "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Ok...? "Does the government fear us? Or do we fear the government? When the people fear the government, tyranny has found victory. The federal government is our` servant, not our master!" Sorry he never said this either. "The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases." Nope...not this one either... "Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of the day, but a series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period, unalterable through every change of ministers, too plainly prove a deliberate, systematical plan of reducing us to slavery." What he said was in a paper on "Rights of British America" in response to the issues between Britain and the colonies: "A series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period, and pursued unalterably through every change of ministers, too plainly prove a deliberate, systematical plan of reducing us to slavery." The stuff at the beginning of you quote has been added. "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be." Not sure what this has to do with "Gun Control" but this really a great quote and a cornerstone of Jefferson's belief in the need for universal education and the vote. Many times he advocated education as the very foundation of democracy and at one point even a prerequisite to vote. Jefferson felt that ignorance and good government could not exist together. He felt if society was ignorant government could restrain its citizens and deprive the people of their liberties. Jefferson belied a nation of universal suffrage it was necessary to embrace the concept of universal education. Jefferson felt so strongly about education that he, as a strict constitutional constructionist, submitted to congress an amendment to the constitution to legalize federal support for education in his State of the Union Address, December 2, 1806. "Education is here placed among the articles of public care. . . An amendment to our constitution must here come in aid of the public education. The influence over government must be shared among all people." "Experience has shown that even under the best forms (of government) those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny." He actually said: "While certain forms of government are better calculated than others to protect individuals in the free exercise of their natural rights, and are at the same time themselves better guarded against degeneracy, yet experience hath shown that, even under the best forms, those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny." Funny you should select that quote too that highlights his belief in universal state sponsored education! It's from the "Diffusion of Knowledge Bill of 1794" he went on to say: "Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves, therefore, are its only safe depositories. And to render even them safe, their minds must be improved to a certain degree. The most effectual means of preventing the perversion of power into tyranny are to illuminate, as far as practicable, the minds of the people at large, and more especially to give them knowledge of those facts which history exhibits, that possessed thereby of the experience of other ages and countries, they may be enabled to know ambition under all its shapes, and prompt to exert their natural powers to defeat its purposes." If you ever want to check a Jefferson quote the University of VA has his entire known writings, letters, speeches, notes, etc., all digitized and and available to search by word, phrase, or topic. Great resource! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Doctor Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 Yes, shame on you, Jim, for not taking the time from your legal practice to fact check everything that you post! [sarcasm off] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 Yes, shame on you, Jim, for not taking the time from your legal practice to fact check everything that you post! [sarcasm off] Yeah, why bother...funny though that what you're saying is the very antithesis of what Jefferson was actually saying in the quotes above, NOTHING about "Gun Control" but about the need for education! "...means of preventing the perversion of power into tyranny are to illuminate, as far as practicable, the minds of the people at large, and more especially to give them knowledge of those facts.." But heyI guess it's easier for some to quote Jefferson than to live up to the real meaning of those quotes. [sarcasm off] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torch40 Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 If you ever want to check a Jefferson quote the University of VA has his entire known writings, letters, speeches, notes, etc., all digitized and and available to search by word, phrase, or topic. Great resource! I've been U of VA, the Jefferson history is cool. http://etext.virginia.edu/jefferson/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Doctor Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 Yeah, why bother...funny though that what you're saying is the very antithesis of what Jefferson was actually saying in the quotes above, NOTHING about "Gun Control" but about the need for education! "...means of preventing the perversion of power into tyranny are to illuminate, as far as practicable, the minds of the people at large, and more especially to give them knowledge of those facts.." But heyI guess it's easier for some to quote Jefferson than to live up to the real meaning of those quotes. [sarcasm off] "Let them take arms." How does one take arms if they do not possess the arms to begin with? If there was gun control, there would be no way to take up arms...unless you stormed an armoury - which I don't think would be reasonably possible today. My point is that if you expect everyone to fact check everything they post on this forum then this forum will die a quick death, and your attack on Jim in a condecending manner was not appreciated by this member. As far as your statement that the man never said it: Prove it! The operative words in your other post was "every known" writing, etc. Personally, I don't care whether he said it or not. I can read The Constitution for myself, and apparently much better than you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 Personally, I don't care whether he said it or not. I can read The Constitution for myself, and apparently much better than you can. I agree! I support a well regulated militia! :happy feet: Which do you belong to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Doctor Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 I agree! I support a well regulated militia! :happy feet: Which do you belong to? And my point is proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 My point is that if you expect everyone to fact check everything they post on this forum then this forum will die a quick death, and your attack on Jim in a condecending manner was not appreciated by this member. As far as your statement that the man never said it: Prove it! The operative words in your other post was "every known" writing, etc. I didn't attack Jim, I have known Jim a long time, and I even started with a sarcastic "you knew this was coming". If Jim has an issue with anything I wrote he is free to, and I welcome him to, address it with me because that was for sure not my intent. Those of you on the "right" create thread, after thread, after thread, after thread, and anyone here is free to fact check it, express an opinion, pro or con. Or wait, are you saying that anyone can post what ever they want, claim as fact, and no one can fact check it or respond? If so I can start a lot of threads too! :happy feet: If Jim has sources for the quotes, he can post them and we can all learn something, but some of these quotes are specifically mentioned as false and it's not just that they can't be found. I'm not understanding where your animosity is coming from when have we been afraid of the examination of facts, on either side, around here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Doctor Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 I didn't attack Jim, I have known Jim a long time, and I even started with a sarcastic "you knew this was coming". If Jim has an issue with anything I wrote he is free to, and I welcome him to, address it with me because that was for sure not my intent. Those of you on the "right" create thread, after thread, after thread, after thread, and anyone here is free to fact check it, express an opinion, pro or con. Or wait, are you saying that anyone can post what ever they want, claim as fact, and no one can fact check it or respond? If so I can start a lot of threads too! :happy feet: If Jim has sources for the quotes, he can post them and we can all learn something, but some of these quotes are specifically mentioned as false and it's not just that they can't be found. I'm not understanding where your animosity is coming from when have we been afraid of the examination of facts, on either side, around here? Let's start with this for an example: "Those of you on the 'right' create...." [emphasis mine] Fact check! I have stated repeadtedly that I am a centrist who's left of center. When it comes to gun rights I am definitely on the right, but as a whole I am left of center. How can one take your "facts" from a man who's been dead a long time, but you can't even get mine right? True, Jim can speak for himself: however, I expressed my opinion; not his. Edited for crappy punctuation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stump_breaker Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 I agree! I support a well regulated militia! :happy feet: Which do you belong to? Finish it Jeff... A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. There are 4 elements to this sentence grouped as one thought. A well regulated Militia AS WELL AS the right of the people to keep and bear arms (note the word BEAR) is necessary to the security of a FREE STATE. The last time I checked the Federal government has not nor has ever been a State and members of the Federal Military are Federal property. Citizens who carry have to be trained with the gun according to the laws in their State yet are part of no organization per say. So which Militia would you be referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69dejavue Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 Yeah, why bother...funny though that what you're saying is the very antithesis of what Jefferson was actually saying in the quotes above, NOTHING about "Gun Control" but about the need for education! "...means of preventing the perversion of power into tyranny are to illuminate, as far as practicable, the minds of the people at large, and more especially to give them knowledge of those facts.." But heyI guess it's easier for some to quote Jefferson than to live up to the real meaning of those quotes. [sarcasm off] [/quote Jeff, you mentioned a rebellion every 20 years. Did you mean to say insurrection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69dejavue Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 Finish it Jeff... There are 4 elements to this sentence grouped as one thought. A well regulated Militia AS WELL AS the right of the people to keep and bear arms (note the word BEAR) is necessary to the security of a FREE STATE. The last time I checked the Federal government has not nor has ever been a State and members of the Federal Military are Federal property. Citizens who carry have to be trained with the gun according to the laws in their State yet are part of no organization per say. So which Militia would you be referring to? Stump- the Second Amendment was written in the manner of its time. Please re to the exceptionally written treatise below: The Supreme Court had to decide if the grammatical structure was an element of discussion or merit. But the final landmark decision hinged upon the intent of the authors of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Was the Second Amendment a personal right to all citizens or did the Second Amendment only guarantees the right to possess a .firearm if one was a member of the militia. For why else was the militia mentioned in the “prefatory clause?” But if there was a prefatory clause there was also an operational clause. The operational clause of the Second Amendment is “The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” It should be remembered that a prefatory clause neither limits or expands an operational clause. But we will look at both phrases and their meanings. (1) Introduction. The Second Amendment provides: “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” Defendant argues that the Second Amendment protects only the right to possess and carry firearms in connection with militia service, while plaintiff contends that it protects an individual right to possess firearms not connected with militia service, and to use those arms for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Plaintiff’s interpretation is correct. The prefatory clause, rather than limiting the operative clause grammatically, announces a purpose, and logic dictates that there be a link between the stated purpose and the operative clause’s command. Thus, the prefatory clause may resolve an ambiguity in the operative clause, but, apart from that clarifying function, the prefatory clause does not limit or expand the scope of the operative clause. (2008 WL 2520816, p. 4.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69dejavue Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 Jeff, here is Thomas Jefferson's thoughts re arms. We established however some, although not all its [self-government] important principles . The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, (as in electing their functionaries executive and legislative, and deciding by a jury of themselves, in all judiciary cases in which any fact is involved,) or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; ---Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824. Memorial Edition 16:45, Lipscomb and Bergh, editors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69dejavue Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 Finish it Jeff... There are 4 elements to this sentence grouped as one thought. A well regulated Militia AS WELL AS the right of the people to keep and bear arms (note the word BEAR) is necessary to the security of a FREE STATE. The last time I checked the Federal government has not nor has ever been a State and members of the Federal Military are Federal property. Citizens who carry have to be trained with the gun according to the laws in their State yet are part of no organization per say. So which Militia would you be referring to? Stump- the militia then was different than today. The militia was all the people. Please re to quote below: "Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69dejavue Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 Finish it Jeff... There are 4 elements to this sentence grouped as one thought. A well regulated Militia AS WELL AS the right of the people to keep and bear arms (note the word BEAR) is necessary to the security of a FREE STATE. The last time I checked the Federal government has not nor has ever been a State and members of the Federal Military are Federal property. Citizens who carry have to be trained with the gun according to the laws in their State yet are part of no organization per say. So which Militia would you be referring to? Militia "The militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves, ... all men capable of bearing arms;..." — "Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic", 1788 (either Richard Henry Lee or Melancton The word "militia" is a Latin abstract noun, meaning "military service", not an "armed group" (with the connotation of plurality), and that is the way the Latin-literate Founders used it. The collective term, meaning "army" or "soldiery" was "volgus militum". Since for the Romans "military service" included law enforcement and disaster response, it might be more meaningfully translated today as "defense service", associated with a "defense duty", which attaches to individuals as much as to groups of them, organized or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 Jeff, you mentioned a rebellion every 20 years. Did you mean to say insurrection? I just quote them, I don't make them up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 Jeff, here is Thomas Jefferson's thoughts re arms. We established however some, although not all its [self-government] important principles . The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, (as in electing their functionaries executive and legislative, and deciding by a jury of themselves, in all judiciary cases in which any fact is involved,) or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; ---Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824. Memorial Edition 16:45, Lipscomb and Bergh, editors. Funny, I actually found quite a few quotes in my search by words like "Arms" or "Guns" etc., that would support your position that's why I think it's silly that some of these gun sites would use false quotes when there are plenty of real ones they could hang there hat on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 Let's start with this for an example: "Those of you on the 'right' create...." [emphasis mine] Fact check! I have stated repeadtedly that I am a centrist who's left of center. When it comes to gun rights I am definitely on the right, but as a whole I am left of center. How can one take your "facts" from a man who's been dead a long time, but you can't even get mine right? True, Jim can speak for himself: however, I expressed my opinion; not his. Edited for crappy punctuation. I'm trying to talk with you but your just badgering me now and looking to pick a fight. Jim posted quotes that were said to have been Jefferson's I only showed which were fake or taken out of context. You're the one that's inserted yourself into this and going off on me. Why I don't know. Let's look at the Front page here and list the topics created by the right: Thomas Jefferson on Gun Control WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR FINANCIAL MELT DOWN Way to Go Texas! More Troubling news about Nancy Pelosi...... Obama Cuts Budget, Saves USA Economy If The Media Isn't Left, Why Didn't This Hit Nat'l News? Car Czar Obama Obama on Pirates First Lady Spleres on $540 Sneekers..... Obama Man Can Obama Ignorance ANOTHER Obama Flip-Flop!! Military Trials for Gitmo Anti-tax protests Hummm...so I respond with facts and suddenly I'm the issue? Have fun! :happy feet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svttim Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 I agree! I support a well regulated militia! :happy feet: Which do you belong to? That issue has been settled b the supreme court. Not enough for you You want my gun, come get it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 That issue has been settled b the supreme court. Not enough for you You want my gun, come get it I don't, in fact, I could care less! I was just responding to a STUPID comment with an equally STUPID comment. Sorry if that didn't come through! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stump_breaker Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 Militia"The militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves, ... all men capable of bearing arms;..." — "Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic", 1788 (either Richard Henry Lee or Melancton Ok. So I read all your posts and still have no idea to what point you are making to (I assume) me since you kept quoting me. You discuss the proper sentence structure of the clause based on the time and the definition of a Militia which all come back to the people. Yes I agree, "Militia" is a broad term used for more than military but one can not escape the fact as it is written in the 2nd amendment, "a regulated Militia" and the "right of the people" are two separate thoughts. This separation neither enhances or negates one or the other. I though my question posed was pretty straight forward, as I am a State's rights type of person. I have said before that I am not a political person but guns are a very sensitive subject to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 Ok. So I read all your posts and still have no idea to what point you are making to (I assume) me since you kept quoting me.You discuss the proper sentence structure of the clause based on the time and the definition of a Militia which all come back to the people. Yes I agree, "Militia" is a broad term used for more than military but one can not escape the fact as it is written in the 2nd amendment, "a regulated Militia" and the "right of the people" are two separate thoughts. This separation neither enhances or negates one or the other. I though my question posed was pretty straight forward, as I am a State's rights type of person. I have said before that I am not a political person but guns are a very sensitive subject to me. Jefferson was also VERY pro-states rights his original thinking was that the role of the Federal government was to protect the common rights of the people, deal with foreign powers, regulate and facilitate trade between the states, and protect the country. Everything else should be left to the states themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69dejavue Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 Ok. So I read all your posts and still have no idea to what point you are making to (I assume) me since you kept quoting me.You discuss the proper sentence structure of the clause based on the time and the definition of a Militia which all come back to the people. Yes I agree, "Militia" is a broad term used for more than military but one can not escape the fact as it is written in the 2nd amendment, "a regulated Militia" and the "right of the people" are two separate thoughts. This separation neither enhances or negates one or the other. I though my question posed was pretty straight forward, as I am a State's rights type of person. I have said before that I am not a political person but guns are a very sensitive subject to me. Stump, I am not slamming you. I thought you were asking a question about the issue of the militia and its relationship to the Second Amendment. For that reason I offered the information about the prefatory clause and the operational clause of the Second Amendment. And apparently we agree about the Second Amendment and I also take it very serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69dejavue Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 I don't, in fact, I could care less! I was just responding to a STUPID comment with an equally STUPID comment. Sorry if that didn't come through! Jeff, when you responded with a stupid comment you exceeded our expectations. Only kidding. But you left yourself open for that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.