Jump to content
TEAM SHELBY FORUM

Profiled!


Recommended Posts

OK, so I was driving to lunch in the Super Snake. In the car with me was our corporate attorney. It was raining so I was being real careful, but I am always careful in town to stay right on the speed limit. Coming in the other direction was a LEO, he turned on his lights, I looked at my speedometer, the attorney looked at the speedometer (both of us read 47 mph - limit is 45 in that area), and I said "I wonder who he is pulling over". Yeah, right.

 

So despite my protestations I got the ticket for 57 in a 45. There was a truck passing me on the right (two lanes both directions). The cop must have looked at his radar, looked up and picked the fastest looking car (I mean, besides the black color).

 

So off to court am I. If I was speeding I would just take my lumps, but there is a lot of difference between 47 and 57 and I know which one is which.

 

But part of the argument was about the change in rear tires from GT 500 to Super Snake (He: it must be the tire change affected your speedometer, Me: No way!).

 

Anyway, is it possible to read and document the parameters that Shelby downloaded, like tire size and rear end ratio? Can anyone offer any information that might help in this situation? Can the local Ford dealer do a calibration check on the speedo?

 

For you legal types out there, will a traffic court accept a sworn statement from my witness (who happens to be an officer of the court)?

 

I did expect no mercy if pulled over while exceeding the rules, but this really stings.

 

Thanks guys and gals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can the local Ford dealer do a calibration check on the speedo?

 

 

Yes or any Speedo shop. I shouldn't admit this but someone I know recently got out of a ticket by buying a programmer for his truck, adjusted his speedometer to register slow, then went to a Speedo shop and got the then current reading documented (he conveniently had a GPS in the truck at the time....hint...hint) . I guess it's true what they say about the apple not falling far from the tree.......wait a minute, did I type that out loud? .............disregard all before. :ph34r:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes or any Speedo shop. I shouldn't admit this but someone I know recently got out of a ticket by buying a programmer for his truck, adjusted his speedometer to register slow, then went to a Speedo shop and got the then current reading documented (he conveniently had a GPS in the truck at the time....hint...hint) . I guess it's true what they say about the apple not falling far from the tree.......wait a minute, did I type that out loud? .............disregard all before. :ph34r:

 

Your speedometer should be accurate. This can be properly identified by acquiring the following information.

 

In the tune that Shelby Flashed on to the (CARB LEGAL) car they have to determine the Revolutions of the tire size. With the number of Super Snakes going out the door I am more than positive that engineers like Ken C. and Jim B. at Kenne Bell did not over look the tire size and gear change in the tune. That's Tuning 101. You will need some documented proof that the tune was set up that way which I am sure it is.

 

Could a Speedo Be off? Yes. I don't think it has anything to do with Shelby and or the tune. Unless you had it re-flashed by a different tuner and they didn't take these parameters into consideration. In which case you might be hosed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes or any Speedo shop. I shouldn't admit this but someone I know recently got out of a ticket by buying a programmer for his truck, adjusted his speedometer to register slow, then went to a Speedo shop and got the then current reading documented (he conveniently had a GPS in the truck at the time....hint...hint) . I guess it's true what they say about the apple not falling far from the tree.......wait a minute, did I type that out loud? .............disregard all before. :ph34r:

 

 

Wow! Now that going as far as you can to get out of a ticket. Sounds like he deserved one and vipereatr doesn't.

 

As for your ticket vipereatr, I would try and bring your passenger to court instead of a signed statement. I know that might be hard or expensive, but it's better then a piece of paper.

 

Also, if the officer told you that your tires might be off because of the package, he should have not written the ticket imho.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow! Now that going as far as you can to get out of a ticket.

 

Yea, that’s what I told him. He kinda forgets about the speedometer when he's half asleep @ 4 am when he goes to work and was already on PBJ for an incident where he stopped (or not) at a stop sign a few months ago so he was desperate. The good news is he now drives below the speed limit (so he says).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow! Now that going as far as you can to get out of a ticket. Sounds like he deserved one and vipereatr doesn't.

 

As for your ticket vipereatr, I would try and bring your passenger to court instead of a signed statement. I know that might be hard or expensive, but it's better then a piece of paper.

 

Also, if the officer told you that your tires might be off because of the package, he should have not written the ticket imho.

 

 

My son....err, I mean this "anonymous" person suggests doing both; bring the witness and provide proof from an accredited speedo shop as to the status of your speedometer. The more documentation you have the better your chances of a favorable outcome.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, the speedo is slow by 4 mph above about 40 mph according to Nuvi. Nothing has been done to the tuner, so that is the way it came from Shelby. I do have my Street Eagle print out from that day. Considering the speedo is off by 4 mph I was doing pretty well in terms of speed limits. Street Eagle only records every 8 to 15 minutes, so that particular time and place is not recorded, but there are lots of other readings showing I was being respectable.

 

Yeah, I guess I'll try to drag my witness into court with me - I'm going to end up owing him big time - I think he only charges about $350 per hour.

 

Here is what Mr. Nuvi said

P1010005.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, the speedo is slow by 4 mph above about 40 mph according to Nuvi. Nothing has been done to the tuner, so that is the way it came from Shelby. I do have my Street Eagle print out from that day. Considering the speedo is off by 4 mph I was doing pretty well in terms of speed limits. Street Eagle only records every 8 to 15 minutes, so that particular time and place is not recorded, but there are lots of other readings showing I was being respectable.

 

Yeah, I guess I'll try to drag my witness into court with me - I'm going to end up owing him big time - I think he only charges about $350 per hour.

 

Here is what Mr. Nuvi said

 

I would photoshop out the max speed...

 

I used my GPS trip recorder both down and on the way back. My Cobra speedo is off by a bout 8-9MPH at 60. Mine is old technology so I've got to get the right gear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That sucks for sure man.

 

Here's an idea though, in California they have speed surveys (I believe that's the name) that you can request to see the particular road you were driving on.

 

Those surveys are used to set the posted speed limit. If the survey shows that the speed limit should be posted at any speed above 45 (say the survey stated that the suggested speed should be 55 mph on that road) then, at least in CA, you cannot be given a ticket in that zone because it would be considered a "speed trap."

 

A friend of mine got out of a ticket in Malibu... he was definitely speeding too fast (60 in a 45) but the speed survey suggested the limit be set to 55 and he got out of the ticket... the cop was dumbfounded. Didn't even know that law in that regard.

 

It may not be the same in CO though but I figured I'd post it just in case ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I got a ticket the first time a took the SS on a trip. I THOUGHT I was running 84, but I got the ticket for 89. Officer was very nice and I tried to explain that MAYBE the speedo was off because of the new package. He understood, but gave me the ticket anyways!

 

I get back on the road and realized that I had MISREAD the speedo. I had set the cruise at 89 thinking I was setting it on 84!!

 

MM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My speedo is off high on my SS. I have had it recalibrated, but still not good. I am going to call SAI, I think the program in bad. I show 10+ mph high. On the positive side, people who ride in it think we are going faster than we are.

 

Lrock

07SS0157

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would photoshop out the max speed...

 

I used my GPS trip recorder both down and on the way back. My Cobra speedo is off by a bout 8-9MPH at 60. Mine is old technology so I've got to get the right gear.

 

Oh, the max speed is kph :rolleyes:

 

I'll reshoot that picture

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you were only 3 to 5 mph over, here are some things you can do in court. Radar reflects off the flattest object in its path when pointed at a group of vehicles. If you were close enough to the truck, even if you were faster than the truck, the radar would have read the trucks speed, not yours. You and your passenger may have to testify about the trucks presence and its position when you spotted the radar unit coming toward you. Ask the officer to tell you the approximate distance between you and the his radar when he clocked you. Most radar units are 'K' band or 'KA' band. KA band is the narrowest and has a 9 degree angle of coverage area. This means if he was 1000 feet away when he clocked you, he was reading an area 157 feet wide. K band is wider, 12 degrees, so at 1000 feet he was covering a path 210 feet wide. At 500' the width is cut in half. Was the truck in that area?

 

Were there any vehicles between you and the radar unit? The speed of the vehicle closest to the radar device is normally the one displayed. Radar does not pick out the fastest target, they display the speed of the strongest signal received.

 

Were there any large objects, such as a bridge, near you when you were clocked? Large objects of concrete will bounce the radar waves back at him but the reading will not be correct. Bad weather, such as rain, limits the radar's range but will not affect the accuracy. Also, he needs to check his speed against a stationary object for the math to be correct and give him an accurate target speed.

 

The officer must establish the time, place, and location of the radar device; the location of the offending vehicle when the offence took place and that the defendant was driving the vehicle. The officer must state his qualifications and training. His certification is required every three years. The officer must state that the radar was operating normally. The officer must establish that the radar was tested for accuracy, both before and after its use, using a certified tuning fork or other acceptable method. You can ask to see the officer's testing log. The officer must accurately identify the vehicle. The officer must have seen that the vehicle appeared to be speeding.

 

Did his radar have an audio feature present on the radar device? If so, was it on and did its pitch correlate with both his visual speed estimate and the radar reading?

 

Since moving radar was used, the officer must testify that the patrol vehicle's speed was verified at the time the speed measurement was taken.

 

Hope this helps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My occupation for the last 15 years has been in politics, over that time period I have worked closely with several different traffic and criminal court judges.

 

I don't want to discourage you from presenting your case in court, but you may be disappointed if you're staking your acquittal primarily on raising reasonable doubt as far as the Officer's mistaking your speed for the speed of the passing truck to your right== (btw I believe your account and it sounds like a scenario which is totally plausible in my mind, happened to all of us I'm sure some idiot passing on the outside, ...officer several lanes away could easily lock onto the other vehicle--- but his testimony will most likely not concede that).

 

Even with your expert witness citing variability in target acquisition/ trajectories/ vectors/ vehicle speed discrepancies yada yada ...well, I suppose it's possible to raise reasonable doubt in the mind of the Judge, but if the officer doesn't flinch or acknowledge that a mistake in his technique that day could have been committed, then your argument will likely still get shot down--- EVEN WITH yourself and your passenger testifying and third party witness also........... UNLESS That particular officer is considered as notoriously sloppy in the eyes of that particular court Judge, probably unlikely.

 

Colorado may take their own approach, but based on my personal experience, police officers are generally not required to carry their calibration log in to court with them for your scheduled trial date. Every judge I have worked for has allowed the officer's VERBAL testimony under oath to suffice with respect to the radar/ laser calibration checks, radar/audio signal verification, also the officer's recollection of verifying that the targeted vehicle was your car-- not the truck alongside you, etc.

 

If you subpoena the radar records through the Clerk of Court (written subpoena request must be filed usually a minimum of a week or two ahead of time), then the prosecutor and/or police officer should have the radar logs on hand-- but even if you subpoena those docs I've seen judges rule that such subpoenas of calibration logs were not sufficiently meritorious to a level mandating compliance and production of those physical documents by the police...depends on the Judge.

 

 

Don't let the above discourage you if you really are convinced you didn't do the 57;

 

If it were me, I'd show up for the trial date with the witnesses anyway, get there 45 minutes early and FIND the prosecutor to have a private conversation BEFORE your case is called , be extremely polite to the prosecutor and officer --difficult to do if you're thinking the officer's an incompetent boob. Prior to trial, privately inform the prosecutor that you have two strong witnesses present, but you'd like to ask the prosecutor anyway if he'd consider dismissing the charges prior to trial (maybe volunteer to split the court costs with the city? state?) ; if prosecutor declines your request to dismiss, then go for it man, go to trial & good luck!

 

(btw make sure you check ahead to see if the initial appearance/court date is the actual TRIAL date and not just the ARRAIGNMENT date.......TRIAL date would mean the officer and prosecutor would be present and prepared to present their case in front of Judge, while the ARRAIGNMENT would simply be your opportunity to enter a plea of not guilty-- subsequently a TRIAL date would be scheduled at some later date. Possibly save you some time--- some courts will accept via fax your written statement pleading Not Guilty, be sure to include along with your NG plea your request that the case be scheduled for trial. Send me a PM if I can help any more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Vipereatr- One add'l thing re: sworn statement by a witness- all of the Judges and courts I've dealt with would require witnesses to be present at the time of trial; they won't accept a sworn/ written affidavit. Prosecutor will object immediately and ask for exclusion of any written/ sworn witness statement offered....... prosecutor will gripe to the Judge that he "can't possibly cross-examine a piece of paper".

Best,

 

My occupation for the last 15 years has been in politics, over that time period I have worked closely with several different traffic and criminal court judges.

 

I don't want to discourage you from presenting your case in court, but you may be disappointed if you're staking your acquittal primarily on raising reasonable doubt as far as the Officer's mistaking your speed for the speed of the passing truck to your right== (btw I believe your account and it sounds like a scenario which is totally plausible in my mind, happened to all of us I'm sure some idiot passing on the outside, ...officer several lanes away could easily lock onto the other vehicle--- but his testimony will most likely not concede that).

 

Even with your expert witness citing variability in target acquisition/ trajectories/ vectors/ vehicle speed discrepancies yada yada ...well, I suppose it's possible to raise reasonable doubt in the mind of the Judge, but if the officer doesn't flinch or acknowledge that a mistake in his technique that day could have been committed, then your argument will likely still get shot down--- EVEN WITH yourself and your passenger testifying and third party witness also........... UNLESS That particular officer is considered as notoriously sloppy in the eyes of that particular court Judge, probably unlikely.

 

Colorado may take their own approach, but based on my personal experience, police officers are generally not required to carry their calibration log in to court with them for your scheduled trial date. Every judge I have worked for has allowed the officer's VERBAL testimony under oath to suffice with respect to the radar/ laser calibration checks, radar/audio signal verification, also the officer's recollection of verifying that the targeted vehicle was your car-- not the truck alongside you, etc.

 

If you subpoena the radar records through the Clerk of Court (written subpoena request must be filed usually a minimum of a week or two ahead of time), then the prosecutor and/or police officer should have the radar logs on hand-- but even if you subpoena those docs I've seen judges rule that such subpoenas of calibration logs were not sufficiently meritorious to a level mandating compliance and production of those physical documents by the police...depends on the Judge.

 

 

Don't let the above discourage you if you really are convinced you didn't do the 57;

 

If it were me, I'd show up for the trial date with the witnesses anyway, get there 45 minutes early and FIND the prosecutor to have a private conversation BEFORE your case is called , be extremely polite to the prosecutor and officer --difficult to do if you're thinking the officer's an incompetent boob. Prior to trial, privately inform the prosecutor that you have two strong witnesses present, but you'd like to ask the prosecutor anyway if he'd consider dismissing the charges prior to trial (maybe volunteer to split the court costs with the city? state?) ; if prosecutor declines your request to dismiss, then go for it man, go to trial & good luck!

 

(btw make sure you check ahead to see if the initial appearance/court date is the actual TRIAL date and not just the ARRAIGNMENT date.......TRIAL date would mean the officer and prosecutor would be present and prepared to present their case in front of Judge, while the ARRAIGNMENT would simply be your opportunity to enter a plea of not guilty-- subsequently a TRIAL date would be scheduled at some later date. Possibly save you some time--- some courts will accept via fax your written statement pleading Not Guilty, be sure to include along with your NG plea your request that the case be scheduled for trial. Send me a PM if I can help any more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Thanks to all of you for the great advice. I went in with my documentary evidence (including the print out of my speed and position for the entire day from my StreetEagle GPS, Google Earth photos with distances, calculations of arc length, etc. etc.), talked with the city attorney, and was offered 6 months of probation after which the charge is dismissed (if no tickets). I did not have my witness with me as he is a corporate attorney type and a $350 per hour guy and I guess friendship has its limits. :hysterical: (Actually he and his family were in an alpine valley somewhere in Colorado - only requirement was that nobody's cell phone could have reception.) I could have rolled the dice and sought acquittal by the Judge, but what the heck. After driving 46 years with 4 moving violations, I figure I can do 6 months standing on my head (knock on wood).

 

Thanks again guys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...
...