avijay Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I was wondering if the input shaft on my 07 is the same as the new input shaft that is used on the TSB, please let me know, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr8snkbite Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Double No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avijay Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Double No Can you tell me what the difference is b/w the old and the new? Splines, size, etc?? Can I just have the flywheel and clutch replaced and maintain the old input shaft if that is what I choose to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingram4868 Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Can you tell me what the difference is b/w the old and the new? Splines, size, etc?? Can I just have the flywheel and clutch replaced and maintain the old input shaft if that is what I choose to do? Are you installing an aftermarket clutch and flywheel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Can you tell me what the difference is b/w the old and the new? Splines, size, etc?? Can I just have the flywheel and clutch replaced and maintain the old input shaft if that is what I choose to do? Yes I can tell you about the new input shaft and yes you need to replace it. The new one is broached to 1/10 the average Roughness of the old input shaft that was in the 2007's. The Pin diameter on the 26 splines has also been changed to the higher end of the specification". The "over pin" dimension has been increased slightly for a better fit with the mating clutch hub. This change with a little lube on it makes for a good clutch release. If you going to change the clutch and flywheel....you need to have the input shaft changed too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shel-b001 Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Yes I can tell you about the new input shaft and yes you need to replace it. The new one is broached to 1/10 the average Roughness of the old input shaft that was in the 2007's. The Pin diameter on the 26 splines has also been changed to the higher end of the specification". The "over pin" dimension has been increased slightly for a better fit with the mating clutch hub. This change with a little lube on it makes for a good clutch release. If you going to change the clutch and flywheel....you need to have the input shaft changed too. So what your saying is they increased the clearance of the spline fit .Do we know what the new input shaft is made out of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 So what your saying is they increased the clearance of the spline fit .Do we know what the new input shaft is made out of? Same material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avijay Posted February 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Are you installing an aftermarket clutch and flywheel? I am installing the flywheel and clutch that comes with the TSB from Ford, not an aftermarket one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avijay Posted February 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 So what your saying is they increased the clearance of the spline fit .Do we know what the new input shaft is made out of? Thanks for the reply, can you explain why the part number for the new TSB input shaft is the same as the old input shaft part number? To me that seems that they are identical? I do realize the part number for the new flywheel and clutch is different from the old ones that came with my car. Insight would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptor Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Yes I can tell you about the new input shaft and yes you need to replace it. The new one is broached to 1/10 the average Roughness of the old input shaft that was in the 2007's. The Pin diameter on the 26 splines has also been changed to the higher end of the specification". The "over pin" dimension has been increased slightly for a better fit with the mating clutch hub. This change with a little lube on it makes for a good clutch release. If you going to change the clutch and flywheel....you need to have the input shaft changed too. Hi Grabber, you obviously seem to be very knowledgeable on these vehicles. I'm new here and don't mean to suggest that you don't know what you are talking about, but I am curious or more accurately concerned about something... what happens in the future (say 5 or 10 years from now) when I or the next owner needs to replace the clutch and flywheel due to "normal wear & tear". Am i/he/she then also required to have the transmission completely rebuilt (to install this "new" input shaft) as part of the clutch job??? this would seem to make for an unwelcome surprise when a future owner finds out that a relatively simple clutch job becomes a mandatory $5000+ transmission repair! also, what happens to the folks who DON'T have the TSB performed because they aren't having any clutch/trans issues? does this mean that in the future, they can't replace their clutch with new parts. or am I to believe that ford is going to continue to offer the original style inferior design as a service replacement for those who never had the TSB performed? many owners aren't internet forum users and probably don't even know that this TSB exists... I know that a new input shaft is included in the "kit" for the TSB, and this alone might seem to indicate that it is updated in some way, but my local dealer's part dept. also says the the input shaft part number has NOT been updated (conversely, they do verify that both the clutch and flywheel #s HAVE changed). I'm not trying to argue... I'm just concerned because i'm currently NOT having ANY clutch/trans issues and don't want the guys at the dealership fumbling around inside my perfectly good transmission for no reason. BUT I also don't want to get stuck rebuilding the transmission at my own expense in the future just because i need a new clutch and never had this supposedly "different" input shaft installed while under warranty. by your description of the changes to the TSB part, I suspect that either shaft will work fine, it sounds like you are saying that the surface of the new one may be polished a little more than the original for smoother operation. I'd be willing to bet that either one will work fine assuming my stocker doesn't have any abnormal wear. please correct me if I'm wrong. sorry for the long post. -raptor P.S. i'll try calling TTC/Tremec tomorrow morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 The Input shaft was not available to purchase until the TSB was released and by that time the revisions had been made to the tranny and input shafts. All input shafts ever sold have been the revised ones. If you remember the early guys that had problems got entire new trannys because the input shaft was not available. The input shaft comes in a kit and the part number is 7R3Z-7C391-A. You can see the pic's of my kit and the part numbers for all the parts that came in the kit. The input shaft is -7017-. Click on the photos to enlarge. They changed the input shaft because to tight is bad. Loose is bad too. This new one is the one you need to make the system last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 The Blue Teflon Lube is critical to the installation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptor Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 The Input shaft was not available to purchase until the TSB was released and by that time the revisions had been made to the tranny and input shafts. All input shafts ever sold have been the revised ones. If you remember the early guys that had problems got entire new trannys because the input shaft was not available. The input shaft comes in a kit and the part number is 7R3Z-7C391-A. You can see the pic's of my kit and the part numbers for all the parts that came in the kit. The input shaft is -7017-. Click on the photos to enlarge. They changed the input shaft because to tight is bad. Loose is bad too. This new one is the one you need to make the system last. the highlighted portions of your reply make perfect sense to me. as for the rest... I'm aware that the tsb kit comes with a new input shaft. however, i'm still curious as to where this leaves me and others in my situation. I don't have any clutch or transmission issues, therefore, I apparently cannot have the TSB performed. So, what happens to me in a few years after my warranty has expired, and I need to replace my clutch due to normal wear & tear. are you telling me that at that time i'll be forced to pay for a full tranny rebuild as well??? I find this hard to believe... again, obviously you know what you are talking about, but what happens to us non TSB people? thanks, -raptor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 the highlighted portions of your reply make perfect sense to me. as for the rest... I'm aware that the tsb kit comes with a new input shaft. however, i'm still curious as to where this leaves me and others in my situation. I don't have any clutch or transmission issues, therefore, I apparently cannot have the TSB performed. So, what happens to me in a few years after my warranty has expired, and I need to replace my clutch due to normal wear & tear. are you telling me that at that time i'll be forced to pay for a full tranny rebuild as well??? I find this hard to believe... again, obviously you know what you are talking about, but what happens to us non TSB people? thanks, -raptor Sorry I did not address your coverage concerns. I have no idea how this will pan out, but I have a bad feeling there will be alot of owners stuck with a bill. I'm just a Shelby owner like you and all I know is that I have a factory warranty and I purchased the best bumper to bumper Ford extended 7 year / 60,000 mile warranty to get some additional coverage that should keep me covered untill 3/8/2014. This cost me $860 dollars and makes it easy to sleep at night. This was dealer cost at the time of my purchase. You might look into getting some additional coverage to take some of the worry off your shoulders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptor Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Grabber, thanks very much for your detailed posting and photos. your help is greatly appreciated. the Ford premium extended warranty does sound like a wise insurance policy. thanks again... -raptor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03reptile Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 The Input shaft was not available to purchase until the TSB was released and by that time the revisions had been made to the tranny and input shafts. All input shafts ever sold have been the revised ones. If you remember the early guys that had problems got entire new trannys because the input shaft was not available. The input shaft comes in a kit and the part number is 7R3Z-7C391-A. You can see the pic's of my kit and the part numbers for all the parts that came in the kit. The input shaft is -7017-. Click on the photos to enlarge. They changed the input shaft because to tight is bad. Loose is bad too. This new one is the one you need to make the system last. Grabber, Just a quick clarification question. My car was built 06/15/2007. I have 17K on the car and have never had any clutch/trans problems relative to the TSB. Very recently I have noticed a slight squeal coming from the clutch area when taking off in first gear, when cold, which goes away after a few stop and go's. There are no other noticeable issues and the car behaves normally, albiet, the ocassional clutch shudder on take off that has been present since day one. My dealer's service manager indicates I can have the entire TSB done anytime I want w/i the warranty period.The owner is a personal friend (lucky me). My transmission operates flawlessly, and I'm not anxious to have it torn into during the TSB. Am I to understand that the the input shaft coming out of the transmission must be replaced with the one provided in the TSB's new parts sent to the dealer to conduct the installation of the improved clutch system for the TSB? I'd rather just have the clutch system replaced and leave the transmission alone. From your previous posts it seems like this cannot be done and the new input shaft must be included in the process. Am I right? Thanking you in advance for your response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Grabber, Just a quick clarification question. My car was built 06/15/2007. I have 17K on the car and have never had any clutch/trans problems relative to the TSB. Very recently I have noticed a slight squeal coming from the clutch area when taking off in first gear, when cold, which goes away after a few stop and go's. There are no other noticeable issues and the car behaves normally, albiet, the ocassional clutch shudder on take off that has been present since day one. My dealer's service manager indicates I can have the entire TSB done anytime I want w/i the warranty period.The owner is a personal friend (lucky me). My transmission operates flawlessly, and I'm not anxious to have it torn into during the TSB. Am I to understand that the the input shaft coming out of the transmission must be replaced with the one provided in the TSB's new parts sent to the dealer to conduct the installation of the improved clutch system for the TSB? I'd rather just have the clutch system replaced and leave the transmission alone. From your previous posts it seems like this cannot be done and the new input shaft must be included in the process. Am I right? Thanking you in advance for your response. Yes you need the input shaft replaced. They revised it as part of the total fix because it was found to be a problem. I know you don't want your tranny broken into, so since you are good friends with your dealer, ask him to order you a complete new tranny. If he won't do it, maybe ask him what the cost difference would be if you paid the difference to get the new tranny. Your dealer would have to figure out the labor credit and TSB parts cost and then compare that to a new tranny to come up with the difference. I bet it's about a grand but I'm not sure. The tranny rebuild takes 12 hours to do and the parts are expensive. ps I deleted your other topic since I answered your question here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckstang Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 why purchase extended warranties, does anyone really think 5 years/50k miles is not enough? Am I missing something here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03reptile Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Yes you need the input shaft replaced. They revised it as part of the total fix because it was found to be a problem. I know you don't want your tranny broken into, so since you are good friends with your dealer, ask him to order you a complete new tranny. If he won't do it, maybe ask him what the cost difference would be if you paid the difference to get the new tranny. Your dealer would have to figure out the labor credit and TSB parts cost and then compare that to a new tranny to come up with the difference. I bet it's about a grand but I'm not sure. The tranny rebuild takes 12 hours to do and the parts are expensive. ps I deleted your other topic since I answered your question here. Grabber, Thanks for the timely response. I was afraid that would be your answer. I will talk to the service manager reference getting a new transmission. The shop has completed two other TSB's on Shelby's, so at least they have some experience in doing so. I also assume the transmission on these two units was also entered and new parts installed, so if the new transmission request doesn't fly, then I'll just have to take my chances and pray that the transmission will not be adversly affected as a result of the tear down and re-build. I really don't want to pay the difference between a no cost re-build and a new transmission, but I will ask what the difference would be, just to satiate my curiousity and yours. Thanks again for your input and counsel on this matter and I'll keep everyone posted on my result. Will probably get the ball rolling ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 why purchase extended warranties, does anyone really think 5 years/50k miles is not enough? Am I missing something here My 7 year warranty covers everything bumper to bumper and all the wizbangs. The money I spent is peanuts compared to all the mods that some people try and then sell for a loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03reptile Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Yes you need the input shaft replaced. They revised it as part of the total fix because it was found to be a problem. I know you don't want your tranny broken into, so since you are good friends with your dealer, ask him to order you a complete new tranny. If he won't do it, maybe ask him what the cost difference would be if you paid the difference to get the new tranny. Your dealer would have to figure out the labor credit and TSB parts cost and then compare that to a new tranny to come up with the difference. I bet it's about a grand but I'm not sure. The tranny rebuild takes 12 hours to do and the parts are expensive. ps I deleted your other topic since I answered your question here. Grabber, Just got off the phone with the service manager. He doesn't think he can justify a new transmission, given my non-issues with my current transmission. I would have to agree with him. I didn't ask him to compare pricing out a new transmission verses repair of the current one, as that would result in a lot of number crunching that I didn't want to put him through. Didn't want to look a gift horse in the mouth, if you know what I mean. He is ordering the TSB parts and states they had no negative performance problems with the other completed TSB vehicles, so I shouldn't expect any with mine. Now I'll just wait for the parts to arrive and then make an appointment. Glad I'm getting this done before the situation gets worse or the clutch decides to grenade itself. Thanks again for your help!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Grabber, Just got off the phone with the service manager. He doesn't think he can justify a new transmission, given my non-issues with my current transmission. I would have to agree with him. I didn't ask him to compare pricing out a new transmission verses repair of the current one, as that would result in a lot of number crunching that I didn't want to put him through. Didn't want to look a gift horse in the mouth, if you know what I mean. He is ordering the TSB parts and states they had no negative performance problems with the other completed TSB vehicles, so I shouldn't expect any with mine. Now I'll just wait for the parts to arrive and then make an appointment. Glad I'm getting this done before the situation gets worse or the clutch decides to grenade itself. Thanks again for your help!! You have a 2007, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03reptile Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 You have a 2007, right? Thats correct. 2007 coupe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Thats correct. 2007 coupe. OK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptor Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 First of all, Grabber appears to be completely correct with the response to the original post. I did call Tremec/TTC transmissions yesterday. one of their tech line / customer support guys verified that the input shaft has been changed and that allthough the old one will work/fit the new clutch, you'll still be stuck with the same binding issue that overheats the clutch/flywheel. My missunderstanding from reading the TSB was that the flywheel was the causal part. But according to Tremec it's actually clutch binding or dragging on the input shaft that is causing the clutch to drag or not release and overheat and damage everything else. so yes it looks like grabber was on the money all along, the input shaft is a MANDATORY replacement to correct/prevent this issue. So if you need a new clutch or develop the TSB problems after your warranty is expired, you WILL be on your own dime to have somebody rebuild your transmission and replace the input shaft as well! why purchase extended warranties, does anyone really think 5 years/50k miles is not enough? Am I missing something here your warranty is 5/50 on powertrain only, the rest of the car is 3/36. Grabber's Ford Premium Care is essentially* bumper to bumper... My 7 year warranty covers everything bumper to bumper and all the wizbangs. The money I spent is peanuts compared to all the mods that some people try and then sell for a loss. * here's the catch. clutch discs (friction material) are considered "wear items" like brake pads and ARE NOT covered under Ford PremiumCare ESP (or the factory warranty after 12k/12mos for that matter). so it's not 100% "bumper to bumper". this can be a grey area though, as sometimes if one part that IS covered goes bad and damages a non covered part, then you MAY be able to get the repair covered as "related damage". at least this is how it works under the original factory warranty. Ford does offer a "Maintenance and Wear" plan the is supposed to cover clutch discs (and all scheduled maintenance), but maint&wear is a seperate protection plan. here's the website for all of the plans that are offered with pdf files of what is / is not covered: Ford Extended Service Plans like the car, the price of these warranties is negotiable. BTW, if you are thinking of buying one, PremiumCare is (IMHO) the only way to go, the others have too many "non covered components" that you don't generally find out about until it's too late. Also, for those looking for extended warranties, stay away from most of the aftermarket policies. They are in the business of denying claims. Ford ESP PremiumCare is the only way to go. BE CAREFUL because most dealers ALSO sell aftermarket warranties along side the Ford ESP plans. they are usually cheaper and offer the dealers a higher profit margin so the dealers push them first. MANY people mistakenly assume that because they bought the warranty "at the dealer" that it must be a Ford warranty. this is simply not the case. sorry for the long post / threadjack but there is some good info here. -raptor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03reptile Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 First of all, Grabber appears to be completely correct with the response to the original post. I did call Tremec/TTC transmissions yesterday. one of their tech line / customer support guys verified that the input shaft has been changed and that allthough the old one will work/fit the new clutch, you'll still be stuck with the same binding issue that overheats the clutch/flywheel. My missunderstanding from reading the TSB was that the flywheel was the causal part. But according to Tremec it's actually clutch binding or dragging on the input shaft that is causing the clutch to drag or not release and overheat and damage everything else. so yes it looks like grabber was on the money all along, the input shaft is a MANDATORY replacement to correct/prevent this issue. So if you need a new clutch or develop the TSB problems after your warranty is expired, you WILL be on your own dime to have somebody rebuild your transmission and replace the input shaft as well! your warranty is 5/50 on powertrain only, the rest of the car is 3/36. Grabber's Ford Premium Care is essentially* bumper to bumper... * here's the catch. clutch discs (friction material) are considered "wear items" like brake pads and ARE NOT covered under Ford PremiumCare ESP (or the factory warranty after 12k/12mos for that matter). so it's not 100% "bumper to bumper". this can be a grey area though, as sometimes if one part that IS covered goes bad and damages a non covered part, then you MAY be able to get the repair covered as "related damage". at least this is how it works under the original factory warranty. Ford does offer a "Maintenance and Wear" plan the is supposed to cover clutch discs (and all scheduled maintenance), but maint&wear is a seperate protection plan. here's the website for all of the plans that are offered with pdf files of what is / is not covered: Ford Extended Service Plans like the car, the price of these warranties is negotiable. BTW, if you are thinking of buying one, PremiumCare is (IMHO) the only way to go, the others have too many "non covered components" that you don't generally find out about until it's too late. Also, for those looking for extended warranties, stay away from most of the aftermarket policies. They are in the business of denying claims. Ford ESP PremiumCare is the only way to go. BE CAREFUL because most dealers ALSO sell aftermarket warranties along side the Ford ESP plans. they are usually cheaper and offer the dealers a higher profit margin so the dealers push them first. MANY people mistakenly assume that because they bought the warranty "at the dealer" that it must be a Ford warranty. this is simply not the case. sorry for the long post / threadjack but there is some good info here. -raptor Raptor, Thanks for the research on the transmission input shaft! This completely confirms Grabber's assertion that the input shaft MUST be replaced to assure a trouble-free TSB repair. I will make sure that this is completed for my up-coming TSB repair. I really have learned to appreciate you guys and your tireless input (no pun intended) on this site to help and guide those less informed owners. Many stand to benefit by your efforts. Thanks again!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiaCobra Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Grabber, got my car back today with a brand new trans with the FRPP short throw shifter installed. WHOO HOO !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Grabber, got my car back today with a brand new trans with the FRPP short throw shifter installed. WHOO HOO !!! Right on. :happy feet: That's the same set up I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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